ZoS:

I do not think the upcoming PvP changes address the core mechanics in the game that too heavily favor "zerging" and I am disappointed that you are overly relying on the "stick" in implementing these ideas and have forgotten the "carrot." While I am glad to finally hear so communication from your front regarding PvP and appreciate the effort that has been put into considering these changes, I still think it is important to critique them and not simply be content that PvPers are getting something. From reading these changes, it almost appears as if ZoS is simply hoping the "zerg" problem will solve itself. My main issue, however, is the proposed highly restrictive measures that make exclusive use of the "stick" to keep players in a particular campaign. This goes beyond being upset of having my freedom taken away to avoid the lag, zerging, and PvDooring that have become so associated and ingrained in the ESO experience, it is that these changes will make it all but impossible for me to maintain the social relationships I have had playing this game for a year.

Speaking for myself, I am apathetic about actually winning a campaign. I got a warm and fuzzy feeling about winning the first Wabbajack cycle on my EP, but the novelty is long gone and the current in game rewards system give me no reason to care which faction comes in first. I apologize for being "that" person, but I am much more concerned about finding competitive and interesting fights and socializing with people I have forged relationships with over the past year. I hop campaigns not to steal your scroll, spy on your faction, or deprive you of the Cyrodiil's Crest end of campaign "reward" that you were just going to decon anyway. I move because my friends play on a different server, the lag is insufferable, and I am sick and tired of having NO counter-play whenever these stack-on-crown guilds that dominate Cyrodiil show up. How many threads pop up on these forums about campaign scoring and how many are written complaining about cheese-stacking Nirn, class imbalance, shield stacking, perma-dodgerolling, Jesus-Beams, race imbalance, OP sorcerers and Nightblades, and, especially, "Zerging"? Am I supposed to have confidence that somehow a new scoring system will motivate players to somehow eschew the still existing core mechanics of the game that make "Zergs" so efficient and effective? I am far, far, far more concerned about "zerging" being so brutally effectual and the accompanying tanking of the server the ineluctably follows because the only legitimate counter is to "zerg" back.

The problem in a nutshell At present and ever since launch, ESO's mechanics too heavily favor the "stack on crown" method. Specifically, it is far more efficient for a raid stacked on a single spot to defend, mitigate, and preempt the damage, debuffs, and other various effects by dispersed players who are trying to defeat them. It is not the offensive firepower or the spammed AoEs that make a "zerg" fearsome as neither are anything better than other players can attain on their own. I understand it is by design for groups to be more efficient stacked together as every RPG I have ever played has such a mechanic to promote teamwork and ensure the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. The problem is one of degree; ESO has gone too far and have tipped the scales of the resource management and efficiency in favor of "stack on crown." I am not a PvE boss like the Mantikora with built in special mechanics that can actually punish a raid that does this!

One Example:

Barrier costs 250 ultimate and provides something to the effect of a 25,000 damage shield and an additional 19,000 or so healing for X players for 30 seconds. I don't know what number that X is; it should be 12, I suspect it is 24. That's pretty good, but not what is OP about it. What is OP is that that mitigation and healing are portable, once it is fired I - and X other players - can go anywhere and the only way an opponent can get rid of it is through sheer damage...a most daunting prospect! Think about it. Let's us compare barrier to another 250 cost ultimate, the Dragonknight Standard, which was cited as the standard (haha) for ultimates. My DK standard is:

• stationary
  
• lasts 17 seconds
• small area of effect
• deals 2000 damage per second

What this means is that even if I could get the entire Havoc raid to willingly stand inside my standard for its entire duration, they would still have a net health benefit from our respective ultimates! That is ridiculous. Most of the Novas and Standards used against "pain trains" hardly scratch them because they simply move away. Now, if we had a way to ensure they stayed in them... (related point: the synergy activation radius is too small. A player *really* needs to activate shackle / crush and this should be exceedingly simple to do anywhere in the area of effect).

Healing Springs, Retreating Maneuver, and in particular Purge are also far too efficient as a single player can inoculate an entire raid from harm provided they "stack on crown" I understand the problem is far more intricate and complex than some well-meaning posters who ask for nerfs. These skills have legitimate functions that are needed to play this game. Also the very nerfs they are asking for do not address the core issue, that is the resource-management of these "pain trains" is too efficient vis-a-vis the smaller groups trying to compete against them. If we put as cast time on purge, then that just punishes the individuals and 4-man groups who rely on it just as much. Robbing Peter to pay Paul is not something we want to do. (Instead consider capping purge at 4 players [the iconic size for a group]. This address the resource imbalance problem in that does not punish individuals or small groups for using this skill: rather it puts the burden on "pain trains" to devote more resources to enjoy the same protection that smaller groups have).

What I really want to see the PvP team and the combat team in ESO is to work together (sorry, my impression is that they do not - the fundamental game mechanics that too much reward a "stack on crown" strategy have been in place for over a year) and give us legitimate tools and counterplay against these blobs. I do not want to be asked nicely to spread out. I do not want mindless artificial restrictions on how we play or the skills that we use. I do not want deterrents that are easily circumvented such as less AP. I do not want to see these guilds blamed, accused of wrongdoing, harassed, or discouraged in any way from playing the game how they want to. No band-aids aimed at symptoms. Give me the means that I can punish them for blobbing. I have been playing RPGs for 30 years that never had this problem. It can be done!


90% of the beautiful map in Cyrodiil is worthless and not played. That there has been zero change since BETA absolutely astounds me. The AvA is too keep oriented; there is nothing to do from a strategic standpoint except take them. In general I think it would be wise to put away the "stick," stop pretending many of us are highly motivated to actually win a campaign, and actually use "carrots" to appeal to player's self-interest to motivate them to do stuff for their alliance. Some insights:

• Dragonclaw, Brindle, and Drakelowe offer marginal benefits. In theory these provide alternate transit to the Inner Keeps and can be used as a springboard to invade the enemy outer keeps. In practice, 90% of the time nobody cares about them. This is a huge problem as they are supposed to be the anchors for the North, West, and Eastern parts of Cyrodiil to remain dynamic and interesting. Holding these keeps on their own, i.e., not part of a home keep bonus, needs to provide a tangible increase in power for players, i.e., not just the alliance, that will actually make us want to have them.
  
• The multiple choke points that make for natural boundaries are not used. It is called the Alessia Bridge because nobody uses the other two, the Chalman milegate because few even realize there is a gate by Kingscrest, and the Ash-Nickel corridor because the two to west are empty. These should be objectives in their own right that provide tangible benefits to the Alliance that holds them; a reason for a 24 man raid commander to say, "Groups 1 and 2, please go secure the far Eastern bridge." There probably should be some sort of NPC defense there (perhaps one that gets stronger over time).
• Alyeid Wells are great random places but their bonus is too transient, too small, and too strategically insignificant to make them anything more than a "let's get them on the way" objective. Idea Players who use them should still get a (larger and longer) bonus, but extend some different (and smaller) bonus Alliance wide to side that last controlled them. Something like this would give a small 4 man group something tangible to contribute to their alliance.
• There needs to be more thought putting some value into Cyrodiil beyond the keeps. Dynamic and random supply caravans and mobile HQs would give us reason to go somewhere besides Fort Ash. Even the farm, mine, and lumber resources attached to the keeps hold insignificant value; there is no reason to take them. If the Fort Aleswell Farm actually had some tangible effect and had any value, there would be a compelling reason for a small group to not follow the Zerg and instead actually heed that quest to take it. Just saying...

There is little reason to care about campaign success or even individual PVP success after reaching the Centurion Rank. Really, what incentive is there to PvP? Somewhere someone is thinking, "you play to have fun." I play to crush my enemies and loot loot loot the bodies! Where is my new sword of awesomeness Fix the whole lag/Zerg/imbalance thing and then we can have a conversation about just playing for fun. I'm not going to wear or even sell the Curse-Eating "reward" I get from the end of a campaign, my mailbox is full with tons of the misnomer "rewards for the worthy" packages that I can't be bothered opening, and the next rank I get, my character will look and play exactly the same. This is only going to get worse with Vigor being moved down to Assault Rank 5 [!] and the removal of Former Emperor buffs. Is there anything besides opening a PvP mystery box and being annoyed that we didn't happen to get one of the few gear sets that are worth anything? My suggestions:

• Please give us rewards for the worthy stuff we might actually use. I don't want or need another green voidstone axe. Less clutter. More stuff that we will actually want to open: alchemy ingredients, unique siege weapons, single use items that simulate some skills that can help defeat zergs, heck, I'd be content with some plain old wall repair kits.
• I do think there should be more skills and passives open to higher ranked players. But probably the best thing to do is tie higher rank rewards with some vanity stuff. Just do something.
• Something besides pride and gold for actually wining a campaign? Since you are all but forcing to stick around a lag infested and zerg dominated environment, I want something tangible that cannot be attained from picking flowers in Coldharbour.

Unlimited resources. Way way way back in last May, I vaguely recall having my max magicka regeneration soft-capped around 80 (so about 800 in 2.0 terms). Now I have my gear totally devoted to spellpower, have double the amount of magicka regeneration and never run out of that resource. This is something whose responsibility falls to someone other than the PvP team, but ultimately their oversights and failures to address balance concerns are making PvP - and PvE I might add, it is so mindlessly simple - suffer. Basically we are running around with glass cannon builds without suffering the natural counter-balance of sustain. The means that players even with average builds can spam their abilities and defenses will-nilly. The wellspring of resources that flow to players with specialized damage builds needs to be constrained.

Specific 1.6 balance issues

• insta-death: the moment I am CCed, I feel as if I am in mortal danger because two hits without me actively defending myself are lethal.
• perma-dodge rolling: On ESO live it was said that it was not intended for the DK Flame lash skill to go through dodge. Was it intended for a Bosmer NB with a bow to spam caltrops to proc a free 600 weapon damage with the ravager set and to dodge-roll from Sejanus to Blue Road Keep just as fast as a horse while completely protecting herself from the damage and effects of 85% of our skills?
• Sorcerer hardened ward: I have yet to be persuaded why these bolt-escapers who have a built in class ability to avoid unpleasant situations should their class shields should be stack with their offensive attribute whereas Templars and DKs have no such option.
• Nirn: we anxiously await any follow up to Gina's post stating that Nirn wasn't working as intended.
• Magicka detonation: can we please adjust the skill so that it is not used to assassinate single targets or strengthen the very zergs it was designed to combat.
• AoE caps: A step in the right direction. Let's end some unnecessary calculations and further disincentivize "stack on crown" by removing the damage ones entirely.
• Wall of Elements and Negate Magic, two useful skills to fight "Zergs" have been nerfed into uselessness. Wall is perhaps the most inefficient skill in the game and Negate Magic does not need to create an "I win" zone, but perhaps it ought to dispel (or at least a chance) all those portable barriers, maneuvers, and shield-stacking...
• I still dislike the flat ultimate regeneration. I get it, AoE dots were not a measure of "skill" but please provide us with some dynamic ultimate regeneration so that smaller groups can win a battle of resources against "zergs"
• Damage shields still prevent procs. The destructive reach skill does not CC or add its damage-over-time component against a shielded opponent. A shielded opponent under a DoT effect will not trigger a Valkyn Skoria proc. Etc. Shields are already strong; they should not give user further immunities that a non shielded opponent has to suffer.

Most of the proposed changes in your post are directed at influencing our behavior as opposed to addressing these game related mechanical issues that are the root of many people's frustrations with the PvP aspect in Cyrodiil. It's one thing to remove former Emperor buffs and mechanics that would discourage player X from Y guild from hopping onto my server and insta-killing me with her proximity detonating Zerg. But, nothing in that list is going to dissuade player A from B guild who are already on my server from insta-killing me with his proximity detonating Zerg and what is worse, you have removed my ability to get away from their nonsense.

I am of the belief that dangling carrots to entice us to desired game-play behavior is preferable and more effective than beating us with a stick to ensure we do not deviate from said behavior. Why would I play ESO to be abused when I can play the Witcher and instead be rewarded? I see way too many sticks in your proposed list of changes.

Former Emperor buffs: These are just GONE. You earned yours legitimately? Too bad. Are we going to throw you a bone and compensate you in anyway? Absolutely not. I have never been an Emperor nor will ever be one so I have nothing personal at stake. I do recognize that Emperor "farming" was unhealthy for the game, BUT: this was pointed out, very clearly I might add, way way way back during pre-launch. After a year and a half, now ZoS is going to finally do something about it...by just taking it away and rendering the accomplishment pointless? Wrong. And too late. ZoS, put down the stick and go to ShopRite and please buy some carrots. I do not see the harm in thinking of some way to make the minor bonuses former emperors had part of a general passive PvP skill line that would be available to all players and to simply give emperors a one-time bonus to said skill line. This way we have a tangible benefit to actually PvP past once we get Vigor, this is not exclusive, and former emperors would get a little something.

Home Campaign Reassignment: 150,000 [!] Alliance Points to change your home campaign. Ridiculous. You got stuck on the same server as the more prominent "stack on crown" guilds and get tired of insta-dying to proximity detonations? Too bad. You are on Daggerfall Covenant and the server you picked does not have the population to compete? Tough luck. You didn't spend hours of your time trying to coordinate where your friends play? Suck it up. Why is it that ZoS insists on making the cost so prohibitive to change campaigns and thus in essence force us to play there? Is it because they are incapable of adjust the core mechanics of the game that make them undesirable to stick around or worth actually winning, let alone caring about, in the first place? I am *not* going to hang around an unenjoyable server. I will log out and not play. I have other responsibilities in my life and other means of entertainment. Already tried to go-getter approach against No Mercy on Aurial's Bow. Wasn't fun. Sorry, I just want enjoy the game with my friends and have some interesting fights.

Disabling Jump-to-Friend: this is by far the most draconian of these sticks that has far-reaching negative implications that I want to hear ZoS address. I understand this is done with the best of intentions. We want campaign stability. The complete removal of "buff servers" and much of the motivation associated with Emperor farming are already significant steps to this desirable goal. See how effective these measures are before removing a tool that has many productive uses other than abusing people's campaigns. There is a real price to be paid for removing jump-to-friend and as this is a game, a social one at that, not real war or a professional gaming league with real stakes, I think that price is too high.

• I don't dual very often and have not formally asked for "battlegrounds" or that sort of small scale PvP. But I know many players have. With the mechanics that favor Zerging and the AvA format where a 4-man team are not viable and can do nothing to actually contribute to an Alliance scoreboard other than get run over by "pain train," I find it frustrating that ZoS has stubbornly adhered to the keep-dominated nature of Cyrodiil and has done nothing to change this. I read Brian's cryptic reference to the "itch" the Imperial City is supposed to scratch and I understand the Haderus scoring changes are meant to provide a campaign with many objectives (that are, unfortunately, still in the shadows of keeps). But I think I speak for many when I say I'll believe it when I see it. How about we actually have proven examples of small scale PvP and then revisit disabling jump-to player? Because right now, if you enjoy dueling, want to set up PvP guild oriented events, or want to get away from the lag, Jump-to-player is the means to do this.
  
• ZoS's servers cannot handle lag and zergs. You have asked us nicely to not to Zerg and tried to incorporate incentives for us not to Zerg (boss AP bonus) and tried to give us skills to fight them (magicka detonation). Yet here we are, over a year since release and there are still Zergs and lag. The Jump-to-player function allows us the ability to leave the miserable game-play when Zerg meets lag. If you remove the ability to leave such a toilet bowl behind and still PvP, I am going to log out of ESO. It is that simple.
  
• Jump-to-Player performed a legitimate function to enable interesting PvP. During off peak hours, there are simply not enough players to have the sort of four AvA servers going on at once. We need ways to temporarily condense the four AvA campaigns to fit the actual number of players that are logged on. Unless PvDooring sounds real appealing. Then there are those days, and I've had a lot of them playing on DC on NA server where we have the lowest population, just staring at a map dominated by the enemy, knowing that there is nothing our 1 bar can do except get stomped. We had to use jump-to-player to go looking for interesting fights. And it went both ways. We all want interesting fights and different experiences. When we would go to Chillrend to face the lagbombs, we both got what we were looking for. Removing jump-to-player means we DC are stuck waiting for reasonable population balance and hoping not to get crushed. And the Red Horde hope to do something beside boringly sweep aside the disorganized and outnumbered DC that were unfortunate to pick their server and have no means under the proposed system of reprieve.
  
  These are very real reasons not disable jump-to-player. It serves productive functions beyond playing with your friend. At the very least, these should give pause and WAIT to see if such a step is still necessary after the other measures have been implemented.
  
  And is the aim of disabling "jump-to-player" to eliminate spying, trolling, exploiting, etc.? Explain to me how exactly these noble goals are accomplished? ZoS may have removed the capability for one faction member to hop on an enemy "alt" to do this sort of tomfoolery, however the inter-faction relationships remain are something ZoS cannot take away and the "alts" are here to stay.
  • I have an EP homed on Thornblade
  • My DC guild also homes itself on Thornblade
  • ...
  
  You might think Jump-to-player allows for spying, but it also serves a very real function for preventing it. Under the current system, I would log onto my DC, jump to my guild and play legitimately. Under the proposed new system, that's something else entirely. Since I am of high-minded character and have impeccable morals, I would never log my EP enter my DC guilds teamspeak and report to them where the enemy forces are, would never set up a "troll" camp when they come back, would never carry an AD Scroll to the High Rock Gate, etc. But I can easily envision how someone of lesser moral fiber, resentful of having no choice but to play their EP in Thornblade under the proposed system, might succumb to temptation.
  
  
  Games and friendships
  
  When I bought the game last April, I made an character in each Alliance. It doesn't matter why I did it. I did. I probably was part of a very small minority at launch, but over the past sixteenth months I have noticed many players, particularly in the PvP community, have similarly made cross-faction alts. It is precisely because this is a game, a social one at that, that through our experiences whether it was dueling, fighting the same people every night on the old "buff servers," quaint traditions such as chivalry or sportsmanship, or perhaps just curiosity to experience "the other side of the hill," we have forged acquaintances and friendships that have prompted us to make cross-faction alts. Whether or not this was strictly legal or if was ever intended is irrelevant; these relationships and the characters are very real, both have been forged by months and months of shared experiences and memories that have been made possible only because "Jump-to-player" existed.
  
  So now I am faced with the prospect of having it literally impossible to play with people whose friendships I value. And for what? Am I supposed to all of a sudden be imbued with campaign pride, "Blood for the Pact," and just throw away these relationships because my ESO PvP experience is "intended" to be fully devoted to scoring more points in Thornblade? I'm sorry for having deviant priorities and not playing the game how it is intended, but when I am on my deathbed and I think about my life and the memories that I cherished, I can most assure you the winning the Thornblade July 2015 cycle will not be one of them. Instead it might be New Year's eve on the old Chillrend buff server where the 20 or some DC regulars joined the 15 or so EP regulars at an impromptu roleplay holiday celebration north of Kingscrest, an event that I was only able to be at because "Jump-to-player" existed. The fact the there were many highly ranked PvP players roleplaying in the first place should say something about the friendships that we make just by playing this game!
  
  What am I supposed to do? Retire my Alliance rank 23 Centurion EP to be exclusively a crafter and just pretend my Ebonheart friends do not exist? Relegate my Alliance rank 22 AD just to PvE? Just have my Alliance rank 22 DC quit her guild? Tell me the in-game functionality under the proposed system that will allow me and others to continue to cultivate the friendships and playing experiences that we have made in game with people who are in multiple factions? We can't. We will have to choose. Simply throw some into trash. You might be thinking I'm someone who exploited a broken system who is finally getting their comeuppance. However entitled to your opinion you may be, just know these are real friendships forged for over a year under a "loophole" that ZoS willingly allowed for over a year and the possibility of continuing and cultivating those relationships are being sacrificed at the altar in the hope that your Haderus August 2015 campaign cycle is a little more stable. To me, that is an unacceptable price for the implementation of a policy that does not have any guarantee to actually fulfill its allege goal, removes the legitimate functions to it that enhance the PvP experience, and, again, this is a game that is ostensible centered on the social aspect, of friendships and shared memories.
  
  
  What I would do
  
  Put away the "stick." Do not force us to play a certain way and in a certain campaign. Make actually winning these campaigns enticing so that we will be motivated and excited to actually do so. Pay more attention to the issues that plague actual gameplay experiences day in and day out that comprise the vast majority of the feedback on these forums.
  
  • Communicate to us on the many balance issues and frustration that have come up since 1.6. It is quite clear on these forums that many players preferred 1.5. I personally am indifferent as each system has fundamental flaws, but I can't stand the perma-dodging, insta-dying, and infinite resources that are part and parcel to 1.6
  • Communicate to us in a way that makes us believe that you understand why ZoS's gameplay mechanics are too heavily favor "stack-on-crown" blobbing and let us know what's on the drawing table to tip the balance to a more level playing field.
  • Do SOMETHING to change the map of Cyrodiil to make it a more interesting and dynamic place to PvP. Everything is about castles. I am sick and tired of going to Fort Ash after sixteen months! Of course we Zerg - there are only 18 places worth going to.
  • Stop spamming our mailboxes with trash. It really is not all that difficult to be more imaginative in this respect and to me it is really telling and sad that ZoS has allowed such a sorry system to continue for over a year.
  • Former Emperor buffs. Believe me, I can totally emphasize with their frustrations having something just taken away! Why does everything have to be so unimaginative and punitive? As mentioned before, these bonus should be wrapped into a system that is accessible to all players to give us motivations to continue PvPing and each emperor should get boosts to that line as a reward. I also like this in light of the new "battle-leveling" proposal. I do agree that low level VRs were mostly just free AP and do need a boost to legitimately compete. But, I am uneasy that they can just stroll into Cyrodiil and be on a near equivalent playing field as a VR14 that has been through the wars.
  • If you are not going to give us formal "battleground" or small-scale PvP instances, I am incredibly disappointed that the gameplay mechanics that make small groups unviable are allowed to continue and there is nothing under the AvA format that small groups can do to actually help their alliance or contribute to a higher score. If the Imperial City has such a feature, why is this hidden?. Even if there is something in the Imperial City to scratch this "itch," I do not want the itch "scratched," I want it to be a part of our regular PvP experience. Why is there nothing in Cyrodiil under the AvA format to encourage small-scale PvP and at least simulate a "battleground" experience?
  • Give us an actual tangible reason to actually want to stay committed to a campaign and win it. Why is Emperor farming a thing? Is it because they want that Ruby Red dye or is it because they want those Former Emperor passives? Why do people farm AP in towers while allowing their Alliance to lose keeps to the enemy? Could it be because they value their own AP more than winning a campaign? Why do so many people opt to AoE zombies and goblins in caves to grind out Champion Points rather than actually playing the game's content? I do not understand why ESO's reward mechanics and character progression model assumes that we are all noble gamers and will play the game as intended without incentivizing us to do so. I am astounded that every time a "grinding exploit" is discovered it is hot-patched away with little corresponding thought given to actually get us to do the content, say like the Craglorn quests.
  • I have not played other MMOs so I am not familiar with how other games have handled campaign rewards. I can tell you that I have over 3,000,000 gold and will immediately decon the non BiS gear that I get as a campaign reward and as such I have zero motivation to stick around and win one (which...hmmm...maybe is a big reason why people use the Jump-to-player feature in the first place: it is more advantageous for them to do so!). If so many players are more concerned with aggrandizing their own power, than tie that into the campaign reward system. I mentioned the possibility of an PvP passive line; what if players got some advancement here from getting AP, but received the bulk of their advancement from actually performing well in campaigns? What if there were PvP bonuses that carried over from one campaign to the next? The point here is should be to actually reward players for playing the game as intended, not to one day just eliminate the capability of playing with our friends.
  • Similarly, make is so players and guilds that Zerg can easily *lose* fights. Once that is accomplished, you will never see the dreaded "Red Zerg" show up at your castle's door.
  
  
  Concluding thoughts
  
  If this post focused too much on the frustrations of PvPing for over a year, it does not mean that I do not think that Elder Scrolls Online has amazing potential. Indeed, when the servers are running decently the PvP in ESO is fun, compelling, challenging, and ultimately keeps me logging back in despite those frustrations. The tone of disappointment and dissatisfaction that come through in this post stem almost entirely from that it will no longer be possible to continue to cultivate the friendships and relationships that I have valued highly for the past year . I am sorry, but it is certainly a debatable assertion that Jump-to-player is "detrimental to the overall PVP experience." I used that feature to enhance the overall PVP experience. I never spied on your faction, placed a troll camp, enabled enemies to enter undamaged castles, or whatever it is that you think I did to be a "detriment" to your alliance. As for those who did, they still will be able to do so - and I would argue be more inclined - despite the removal of jump-to-player. Under the new proposed system there will still be zergs, lag, population imbalances, "dead" campaigns, off-peak hours, inter-faction friendships, and other reasons why Jump-to-player serves as a useful and necessary mechanism to improve our PvP experience. There are very real implications to consider and the price of its removal is too high. ZoS: less sticks and more carrots please.