Remove Champion Point Gains From XP Potions

Nifty2g · June 2015

Come on ZOS, and if you can't / don't know how to do that, why bring them out then or include it?
The gap from new players / casual players / and veteran players is going to be huge. The gap between NA server and EU server in champion points is already massive. All I'm going to do is use them before I do a VDSA run and that will mean 3-4 Champion Points per completion, and it takes me less than 45 minutes to complete with a team I usually play with daily. I can earn up to 40 CP a day. And the thing is there is going to be a huge amount of people doing this.

Or even more so, you can even 2man VDSA and reset the rounds non stop and get CP gains that way.

This is just a silly move. Champion Points are meant to be a progression not grind until you're overpowered compared to everyone else and make the gap even further.

And just so you know I already have 50 Psijic Ambrosia. It's already on the market.

Teiji · June 2015

Mods, get him!

Champions points are awarded by gaining experience points.

If you group up, you receive a 10% experience boost. Should Zenimax remove this? Only let pre level 50 characters receive the experience boost?

Is this thread a petition in disguise? I'm not sure what discussion you intend to encourage by saying 'Remove X'.

This is the best addition to the game yet. I'm patiently awaiting the Crown Store potions so I have something practical to spend Crowns on. I hope the mods take mercy on your soul with no shadow ban, fellow ESO community member.

AssaultLemming · June 2015

I don't think remove it, better to give it diminishing returns to allow new players to easily catch up to a base level of champ points.

Nifty2g · June 2015

Teiji wrote: »

Mods, get him!

Champions points are awarded by gaining experience points.

If you group up, you receive a 10% experience boost. Should Zenimax remove this? Only let pre level 50 characters receive the experience boost?

Is this thread a petition in disguise? I'm not sure what discussion you intend to encourage by saying 'Remove X'.

This is the best addition to the game yet. I'm patiently awaiting the Crown Store potions so I have something practical to spend Crowns on. I hope the mods take mercy on your soul with no shadow ban, fellow ESO community member.

What are you on about?

Dru1076 · June 2015

Yeah... This is gonna let hard-core gamers increase their advantage over casuals like me immensely, and it os an advantage they don't need. With cp gain included I will NEVER be able to catch up, let alone keep up. I was actually really stoked about these potions. I am now really unsure about it.

I think we are going to need a separate campaign for those who have more than a certain amount of champion points, otherwise PvP will become too imbalanced in the near future.

Yattaq · June 2015

Assuming you use them, these actually are catch up mechanisms for players with less champion points. Because of diminishing returns with champion points, going from champion rank 10 to 11 is significantly more impactful than going from champion rank 110 to 111.

If you don't use them, then you shouldn't expect to catch up to someone who is willing to spend more time and gold/money. That's generally not (never?) how these kinds of games work. Even in games with easy to hit experience caps, there is a gear chase that casual players generally won't finish until right before/after the next gear chase is implemented.

Bookwyrm · June 2015

Yes, they are set up for diminishing returns, but the big draw for most people with champion points are the 75/120 passives that unlock in each constellation. Yes, there are a limited number of them, but if there are no limits to champion points (I don't know whether they are limited or not, but if there are limits they are certainly high), this means that it will be much easier for hardcore vets to get all of them quickly (or at least the "best" ones) on all of their characters (since champion points are shared). After that point, your point about diminishing returns may be true, but those passives do have quite an impact on gameplay. Some casual players may be able to get a 120 passive in one constellation by the time hardcore vets have them all.

Personofsecrets · June 2015

remove the last four words of this threads title

Yattaq · June 2015

Bookwyrm wrote: »

Yes, they are set up for diminishing returns, but the big draw for most people with champion points are the 75/120 passives that unlock in each constellation. Yes, there are a limited number of them, but if there are no limits to champion points (I don't know whether they are limited or not, but if there are limits they are certainly high), this means that it will be much easier for hardcore vets to get all of them quickly (or at least the "best" ones) on all of their characters (since champion points are shared). After that point, your point about diminishing returns may be true, but those passives do have quite an impact on gameplay. Some casual players may be able to get a 120 passive in one constellation by the time hardcore vets have them all.

Those passives are few and far between, literally. Passives are powerful, but some of the sub 75 ones are powerful too. My point about diminishing returns literally affects 90% of the points someone spends, since there are 36 passives and 3600 spendable points.

The minimum number of champion points required to get 120 in one constellation is 358. By 360, you can get 120 passives in three constellations. The minimum number of champion points required to get 120 in all constellations is 1080.

If you have 360 champion points by the time someone else has 1080 champion points, they deserve to have an advantage over you.

Garethjolnir · June 2015

I was unaware of this, it should not affect champion point gain at all. A bit disappointed with their decision.

Vostorn · June 2015

Yattaq wrote: »

The minimum number of champion points required to get 120 in one constellation is 358. By 360, you can get 120 passives in three constellations. The minimum number of champion points required to get 120 in all constellations is 3600 (max).

120*9 = 1080, not 3600.

The gap between players with 360 and 1080 CP is really huge. After that cap of 1080 CP, I agree diminishing returns are doing their job. Before that, CP difference makes a big difference.

Like non-vet campaign, their should have a campaign <1080 CP.

Sausage · June 2015

We dont know how Crown store boosters looks like yet.

leshpar · June 2015

I don't see anything wrong with people grinding out CP in this manner if they want to.

Iyas · June 2015

Totally agree with op

Sausage · June 2015

leshpar wrote: »

I don't see anything wrong with people grinding out CP in this manner if they want to.

Do you really think top guilds are gonna sell these to anyone? Only to their mates. They just gave huge power to the players.

fureyu · June 2015

If you put in the time and effort then you get rewarded. It's not a game for care bears where you need to be coddled and given a pacifier..

Garethjolnir · June 2015

Do we even know for sure yet if it applies to CP?

Yattaq · June 2015

Vostorn wrote: »

Yattaq wrote: »

The minimum number of champion points required to get 120 in one constellation is 358. By 360, you can get 120 passives in three constellations. The minimum number of champion points required to get 120 in all constellations is 3600 (max).

120*9 = 1080, not 3600.

The gap between players with 360 and 1080 CP is really huge. After that cap of 1080 CP, I agree diminishing returns are doing their job. Before that, CP difference makes a big difference.

Like non-vet campaign, their should have a campaign <1080 CP.

Yeah my bad, had a brain fart. The point still remains though, people should expect to be less powerful than someone who has 1080 CP when they only have 360. There are breakpoints in the system where power jumps are achieved, but that sort of thing is necessary to keep it interesting for the players who do get to the 1k mark. Otherwise, you're just always getting something like .01% physical damage. That isn't really interesting.

Germal · June 2015

Dru1076 wrote: »

Yeah... This is gonna let hard-core gamers increase their advantage over casuals like me immensely, and it os an advantage they don't need. With cp gain included I will NEVER be able to catch up, let alone keep up. I was actually really stoked about these potions. I am now really unsure about it.

I think we are going to need a separate campaign for those who have more than a certain amount of champion points, otherwise PvP will become too imbalanced in the near future.

its the total opposite, will help to catch up. Iam a casual so im glad they added them, for alt lvling good too

JacksonCarter13 · June 2015

Nifty Is all over this and 100% correct. No champion point game just dumb. And @zos if half the community doesnt want something you shouldnt put it in...

RazzPitazz · June 2015

Germal wrote: »

Dru1076 wrote: »

Yeah... This is gonna let hard-core gamers increase their advantage over casuals like me immensely, and it os an advantage they don't need. With cp gain included I will NEVER be able to catch up, let alone keep up. I was actually really stoked about these potions. I am now really unsure about it.

I think we are going to need a separate campaign for those who have more than a certain amount of champion points, otherwise PvP will become too imbalanced in the near future.

its the total opposite, will help to catch up. Iam a casual so im glad they added them, for alt lvling good too

Sorry to tell you that if you are using it to catch up then you better believe there are people using it to stay ahead.
The only difference with the xp pots is that there will officially be a CP middle class.

The players who received the free CP for having vet characters are at the top; they had a head start for investing in the vet rankings, and deservedly so.
Those who waited to start vet until post CP are technically the bottom with several layers of CP poverty.
Those who have multiple vet characters have more gold simply due to reward and lack of things to buy at end game after a while except for tripots, trifood and respecs.
Now the players with all of the excess gold week buy up the board to stay ahead, while the players who don't have the gold are are buying to catch up.

theweakminded · June 2015

Not going to ever happen because it is the main character progression. People need to give up that argument and start calling for catchups and caps.

Nifty2g · June 2015

rajaniemiorama_ESO wrote: »

Germal wrote: »

Dru1076 wrote: »

Yeah... This is gonna let hard-core gamers increase their advantage over casuals like me immensely, and it os an advantage they don't need. With cp gain included I will NEVER be able to catch up, let alone keep up. I was actually really stoked about these potions. I am now really unsure about it.

I think we are going to need a separate campaign for those who have more than a certain amount of champion points, otherwise PvP will become too imbalanced in the near future.

its the total opposite, will help to catch up. Iam a casual so im glad they added them, for alt lvling good too

Sorry to tell you that if you are using it to catch up then you better believe there are people using it to stay ahead.
The only difference with the xp pots is that there will officially be a CP middle class.

The players who received the free CP for having vet characters are at the top; they had a head start for investing in the vet rankings, and deservedly so.
Those who waited to start vet until post CP are technically the bottom with several layers of CP poverty.
Those who have multiple vet characters have more gold simply due to reward and lack of things to buy at end game after a while except for tripots, trifood and respecs.
Now the players with all of the excess gold week buy up the board to stay ahead, while the players who don't have the gold are are buying to catch up.

At least someone gets it

Sausage · June 2015

Garethjolnir wrote: »

Do we even know for sure yet if it applies to CP?

Read the patch notes.

RazzPitazz · June 2015

AssaultLemming wrote: »

I don't think remove it, better to give it diminishing returns to allow new players to easily catch up to a base level of champ points.

This is most likely the best solution, however would have a horrible drawback.
Xp portions will be most valuable to lower vet rank characters, as they have both a level grind and a CP grind ahead of them. Diminishing returns would make the item far less worth investing in if, say, veterans can only gain +20% experience.I would say the lowest it would have to go is 35%, which only slows the gap progression.
ZoS just effectively taxed the poor to pay the rich.

BuggeX · June 2015

The Problem is not to stay ahead or catch up.
The Problem is the Balance of the CP - System and time rec.

Cp are not farmed in 2-3 mounth, they Need atleast 2 years for causal Player .

some CP Perks are simply to strong right now.

20% more dmg if a target is offbalance, just a few cp more and my dk will cut throught smal grps.....
4000 magica recover ever 10 secs if i get hitted by flame/shock/ice, i will cut even faster.
100% crit when i block 3 spells, o right my dk is a permablocker.
2500 dmg when i block with a Chance of 10% (? was it 10%)

and mutch others

nimander99 · June 2015

Just play the game, set a goal of- I don't know- 1 to 3 CP's earned a day and before you know it you will on par. CP's give diminishing returns so the dif between 200 CP's and 400 CP's really isn't much (skill could make up the dif easily).

Instead of poping onto the forums and posting a camo-petition you could've earned a CP in game

F7sus4 · June 2015

Nifty2g wrote: »

I can earn up to 40 CP a day.

If you can could, you'd actually have nothing to complain about.

smokes · June 2015

Dru1076 wrote: »

Yeah... This is gonna let hard-core gamers increase their advantage over casuals like me immensely, and it os an advantage they don't need. With cp gain included I will NEVER be able to catch up, let alone keep up. I was actually really stoked about these potions. I am now really unsure about it.

I think we are going to need a separate campaign for those who have more than a certain amount of champion points, otherwise PvP will become too imbalanced in the near future.

the power gap at endgame in ESO always worried me and it doesn't seem to be being addressed in any way.

is it intended that the end of the "power road" is 3600 CP - as thats the only thing that will stop the grinders, hitting the end of the road.

there needs to be a some kind of softcap on the amount of CP a player can have until X point in time. in other games X would be a new expansion release, additional content or new tier of gear. in ESO, these stop points dont appear to exist, leaving the door open for anyone with the time, patience or desire to grind all the way to 3600 CP and absolutely dominate the game.

which leaves all the players with a more casual playstyle, leagues behind through no fault of their own.

for a VR1 to come up against a VR14, they have a mountain to climb to be equal, in terms of gear and content required to be cleared in order to catch up.
for a VR1 to come up against a VR14 with 3600CP, you might as well be at level 1 Vs molag bal. there's no chance you will ever be equal, as by the time you start to get close, the goalposts would've moved again.

it'd be more sensible if a softcap of, for example, 600CP was currently the max. with the softcap raised by 200CP everytime a new DLC patch is released.

otherwise you might as well start selling CP on the crown store before new players enter VR pvp and stop playing once they realise the insurmountable task ahead of them.

i appreciate there will always be a top 1%, but you need to let the other 99% have a decent chance to catch up at some point, not continuously allow the top 1% to maintain a giant lead over the rest of the playerbase.

F7sus4 · June 2015

This power gap myth is really short-sighted opinion.

With either 360 CP or 3600 CP you still would have no more than +25% to your DPS abilities, healing done etc. Collecting additional bonuses that obviously are not related to your role/build, will not benefit you in OP way.

What might cause a temporary gap, however, is the new XP potion. The truth is, that it will benefit pro-players the most, while pugs will still remain pugs - no matter if they'll use those potions or not.

Sausage · June 2015

They just follow the genre way/standards, nothing more, like they always do. I wont be grinding CPs anymore, because I know theres lots of top guild who use them 24/7 and its a race what I dont want to be part of. They kept the competitive nature I suppose.