Nedic Armor: Perfect example how Cash Shops ruin games

Faulgor · June 2015

So thanks to data mining efforts with the latest patch, we know that the Nedic Armor shown in the E3 teaser/trailer is not actually armor, but a costume.

Mind, the assets have been in the game since Craglorn's release over a year ago. They are worn by NPCs (including light armors which apparently won't make it in as a costume) in Shada's Tear, a dungeon in Craglorn.

With the assets already existing, they had a choice how to let the player acquire it. Either directly selling it in the cash store for some ... cash ( scenario A ), or through some means of gameplay ( scenario B ).

A

I buy the costume in the crown store for cash
I put it on, run around for a few minutes and log out again because there is nothing to do
ESO is kill

B

Nedic Style motif or armors are added to Shada's Tear loot
I run it every day because I really want that style for a new character
I can sell pieces I have more than I need or don't want, benefiting the economy
Content is actually played, I meet new people in game every day
ESO thrives

In scenario A, ZOS makes some quick money, but the game suffers and people eventually leave. In scenario B, ZOS makes no money because they dropped the subscription requirement, but the game is actively played and players create a loyal community.
It's obvious which choice ZOS makes. And why, without a subscription, the health of the game and the health of the company are always at odds with each other.

No matter how well-intentioned a cash shop might be, there really is no such thing as "just cosmetics". The style and look of my character is an integral part of the RPG genre. It is one of the greatest sources of motivation to actually play the content that rewards new styles and looks. Just as an example, people were farming Dwemer ruins like crazy when that style was introduced. Heck, the only reason I still run pledges from time to time is because I want a full set of Ebon Armory and Savior's Hide.
But of course everyone knows that people want looks, which is why they sell them for cash. But it also removes the incentive to actually play the content.
What you end up with is Craglorn, a zone full of content that nobody play. Shada's Tear is as dead as it gets. And no amount of new content will matter if all of it ends up like this because you can simply buy your rewards for cash.
Eventually, not just one zone will be dead, but the whole game. What you are left with is a circus show where everyone left logging in just parades his new costumes around while riding the 137th reskin of the mount.

Aett_Thorn · June 2015

If this is true, it's disappointing. The Nedic armor, especially the medium stuff you see on the archers in the Stonefalls quest, has been one of my major crafting wants for a long time now. If it's just a costume I have to buy with crowns, I'll be pretty upset.

xaraan · June 2015

I actually wish they had both in the game. Sometimes I'd like to be able to craft mixed armor pieces for a look I'm creating, sometimes I have to wear ugly crap from drop sets and would like to be able to wear a costume that looked nice (only about half of them do so far IMO). So I think having "set" costumes would be nice, I really wish they had Akivirii (pvp) costumes as I miss my old ninja looking costume of grays from back before they rolled out armor dye.

idk · June 2015

Faulgor wrote: »

So thanks to data mining efforts with the latest patch, we know that the Nedic Armor shown in the E3 teaser/trailer is not actually armor, but a costume.

Mind, the assets have been in the game since Craglorn's release over a year ago. They are worn by NPCs (including light armors which apparently won't make it in as a costume) in Shada's Tear, a dungeon in Craglorn.

With the assets already existing, they had a choice how to let the player acquire it. Either directly selling it in the cash store for some ... cash ( scenario A ), or through some means of gameplay ( scenario B ).

A
I buy the costume in the crown store for cash

I put it on, run around for a few minutes and log out again because there is nothing to do

ESO is kill

B
Nedic Style motif or armors are added to Shada's Tear loot

I run it every day because I really want that style for a new character

I can sell pieces I have more than I need or don't want, benefiting the economy

Content is actually played, I meet new people in game every day

ESO thrives

In scenario A, ZOS makes some quick money, but the game suffers and people eventually leave. In scenario B, ZOS makes no money because they dropped the subscription requirement, but the game is actively played and players create a loyal community.
It's obvious which choice ZOS makes. And why, without a subscription, the health of the game and the health of the company are always at odds with each other.

No matter how well-intentioned a cash shop might be, there really is no such thing as "just cosmetics". The style and look of my character is an integral part of the RPG genre. It is one of the greatest sources of motivation to actually play the content that rewards new styles and looks. Just as an example, people were farming Dwemer ruins like crazy when that style was introduced. Heck, the only reason I still run pledges from time to time is because I want a full set of Ebon Armory and Savior's Hide.
But of course everyone knows that people want looks, which is why they sell them for cash. But it also removes the incentive to actually play the content.
What you end up with is Craglorn, a zone full of content that nobody play. Shada's Tear is as dead as it gets. And no amount of new content will matter if all of it ends up like this because you can simply buy your rewards for cash.
Eventually, not just one zone will be dead, but the whole game. What you are left with is a circus show where everyone left logging in just parades his new costumes around while riding the 137th reskin of the mount.

A. Have never seen armor skins (aka costumes in this game) ruin a game. It's just cosmetic.

B. Pointless to have it as an armor motif as much of the best armor in the game is not crafted. Would rather have a costume. M
C. Either way will not have a huge impact on the success of ESO.

eviltims · June 2015

I see your point. It is something to grind for which makes people play the game more. Of course not everyone likes to grind for stuff, but I don't mind grinding.

DaveMoeDee · June 2015

It isn't like the playable content will magically appear. And if they finally give us more playable content, I don't care about the appearance of drops. I want some good narrative.

traigusb14_ESO2 · June 2015

If they have the art, they can do both.

Just because the only version in the release files is a costume for NPCs doesn't mean it can't be a motif.

They can add stuff to files at any time.

Lynx7386 · June 2015

I might buy a crafting motif off the crown store, but I sure as hell won't buy a costume. Can't even dye costumes.

Carde · June 2015

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

A. Have never seen armor skins (aka costumes in this game) ruin a game. It's just cosmetic.

B. Pointless to have it as an armor motif as much of the best armor in the game is not crafted. Would rather have a costume. M
C. Either way will not have a huge impact on the success of ESO.

You kind of missed the entire point. Cash shops are stupid because they force developers to focus on trying to make new stuff to sell you rather than new stuff to actually do or earn in the game.

Faulgor · June 2015

Carde wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

A. Have never seen armor skins (aka costumes in this game) ruin a game. It's just cosmetic.

B. Pointless to have it as an armor motif as much of the best armor in the game is not crafted. Would rather have a costume. M
C. Either way will not have a huge impact on the success of ESO.

You kind of missed the entire point. Cash shops are stupid because they force developers to focus on trying to make new stuff to sell you rather than new stuff to actually do or earn in the game.

Well said.

Another example would be the armor dyes tied to achievements we got a year ago with the subscription model. I wouldn't have played nearly as much if I wasn't looking to complete achievements for new colors, and I wouldn't have played the group (!) content that unlocked these achievements (just recently I got Akatosh's Scales Gold for completing all dungeon speed challenges ... mainly because Banished Cells was bugged for the longest time). With the new payment model, this update would simply not happen. You would be able to buy dyes in the cash shop, as many F2P/B2P MMOs would have you do, and many people would be fine with it because hey, it's just cosmetics.

But the game would be a lesser one for it.

drschplatt · June 2015

I'm not worried either way. Most of the costumes in this game look fairly similar due to the muted, earthy tones everything has in this game. I honestly don't look at people's outfits because they're just a mush of greys, browns and blacks most of the time. There are a few unusual costumes but nothing outstanding. If one could dye armors with colors that actually stood out or were noticeably different, it would be nice.

Talcon · June 2015

Crowns over grinding any day.

RedTalon · June 2015

More sad they don't add more dresses, but gee

newtinmpls · June 2015

drschplatt wrote: »

I'm not worried either way. Most of the costumes in this game look fairly similar due to the muted, earthy tones everything has in this game. I honestly don't look at people's outfits because they're just a mush of greys, browns and blacks most of the time. There are a few unusual costumes but nothing outstanding. If one could dye armors with colors that actually stood out or were noticeably different, it would be nice.

ARgh I wish more stuff looked "muted"; my eyes hurt from the many many lurid dye jobs.

nimander99 · June 2015

I hear ya, but still just because its data-mined doesn't mean there won't be a craft-able set after all, there are many costumes that are craft-able too.

Edit: ZoS always says data-mining is fine but it doesn't mean that the data-mined image is the final result... just look at exp pots as an example

Ajaxduo · June 2015

It does make sense that these costume's should be available as motifs opposed to crown store items, however cosmetics is one of few things that sells on cash shops...and you know, money.

Taz · June 2015

I still feel like they would benefit the most of adding a 'custom costume' token to the crown store instead, releasing these new styles in motifs as per suggestion B, and reaping the profit of people making more and more of their own costumes with these new styles.

When I see these armors, it's usually, "Oh, that's a cool helm!" and "Oh, what a nice looking chest piece" but I might not buy the costume because "why is it putting me in a skirt" or "what self respecting warrior is going to run out in plate armor that doesn't cover their arms?" or "this color is absolutely hideous".

If they let us use a token that say, allows us to put a piece of armor in every slot (or none), color it how we'd like and then SAVE that look (thus taking up the costume token), I'd probably buy many, many of those tokens. Especially if new cool armor comes out, it'll only inspire me to get more tokens. But pre-made costumes, eh. What if I only like the helm? The gauntlets? The chestpiece and pants but the rest looks silly? What if I want it in a different color?

And then they can also keep putting out more unique looking outfits, dresses and jester's outfits and the like too. But for the armor it seems silly to pre-make it instead of letting us customize our own (for a price!) and let us churn out a whole closet full of our own personal armor costumes (which would also make people feel more unique, because you can also change colors, mix and match, etc).

Edit: This also allows them to focus on putting the motifs/content in the game and then still making tons of money off the costume tokens.

Endurance · June 2015

pretty soon they will add a ingame crowns to gold conversion npc somewhere in one of the main towns

Nifty2g · June 2015

maybe they made it a costume because no one uses crafted sets anymore to truly admire the armor in full?

hur dur stop whining over stupid things

LEGENDARYYY · June 2015

I agree with OP entirely. Baffles me that some people don't get the point.

yeah I'm looking at you @Nifty2g

Faulgor · June 2015

nimander99 wrote: »

I hear ya, but still just because its data-mined doesn't mean there won't be a craft-able set after all, there are many costumes that are craft-able too.

Edit: ZoS always says data-mining is fine but it doesn't mean that the data-mined image is the final result... just look at exp pots as an example

If they also add these costumes as items in game I'll eat crow.

Korah_Eaglecry · June 2015

Carde wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

A. Have never seen armor skins (aka costumes in this game) ruin a game. It's just cosmetic.

B. Pointless to have it as an armor motif as much of the best armor in the game is not crafted. Would rather have a costume. M
C. Either way will not have a huge impact on the success of ESO.

You kind of missed the entire point. Cash shops are stupid because they force developers to focus on trying to make new stuff to sell you rather than new stuff to actually do or earn in the game.

And you miss the point of Cash Shops keeping a company from going bottom up. And give them the opportunity to continue to add new areas to a game.

Sausage · June 2015

Well, if they survive boosters they survive anything.

As for costumes I think its great idea, theres so many thing players want to "play" so there needs to enough costumes to fill that hole, I bet some cool Ranger costume would sell like hotcakes.

jluceyub17_ESO · June 2015

Hopefully they'll pick A and B, like they've done with XP boost pots. Release the in-game version first, maybe collectable through crafting writs or grinding certain dungeons. The XP boost pots have revived the market for crafting ingredients and got many players doing the provisioning writs again, maybe new motifs can do the same for other crafting writs.

Soul_Marrow · September 2015

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Carde wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

A. Have never seen armor skins (aka costumes in this game) ruin a game. It's just cosmetic.

B. Pointless to have it as an armor motif as much of the best armor in the game is not crafted. Would rather have a costume. M
C. Either way will not have a huge impact on the success of ESO.

You kind of missed the entire point. Cash shops are stupid because they force developers to focus on trying to make new stuff to sell you rather than new stuff to actually do or earn in the game.

And you miss the point of Cash Shops keeping a company from going bottom up. And give them the opportunity to continue to add new areas to a game.

This is such a load of crap. Games like this have been surviving and companies not going bottoms up for decades. That's an awful, lazy man's argument and it was probably fed to you via companies like this over the years. Some of the best games and developers out there have been around multiple decades without having to nickel and dime people to death. They survive on creativity, quality, and community. This type of nonsense simply breaks the game's economy and honestly, gives us less to look forward to. These games used to keep you coming back for more and more, but the social media dependant generation has zero attention span or drive now so they would rather spend real world cash for quick "rewards" with little to no substance. The developers could make loads of money off of quality content being released on a regular basis. If you want something badly enough, earn it. Buying is as close as it gets to legal cheating, cosmetic or not. It takes away content in the game. Why not just sell gold in the crown store too? If you don't like grinding then you have no business playing a MMORPG. Go play something that hands out participation awards like COD. That should keep a simple mind distracted for a few moments at a time and still satiate the reward center in your brain by allowing you to unlock stuff simply by playing, not being good.

acw37162 · September 2015

That's a lot of factual assertion from someone who does not have a Z next to their name. Moving on.....

Aunatar · September 2015

I want the subscribe2play model back. I want it so bad.