Pay2win! Now its going live. 50%XP boosters work for Championspoints!

washlov · June 2015

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

I know its not pay to win. Pay to win again the 1000th time means the only option is PAYING.

no P2W is when you get an advantage for real money and so it is

and whats the sense of spending ingametime for getting potions which saves time?

Cuyler · June 2015

You'll need an XP boost after all the time wasted to fish for Perfect Roe lol. not P2W just yet

Spottswoode · June 2015

How nice of ZOS to help me make this decision.
Not that they care.

eliisra · June 2015

What's the drop-rate for Perfect Roe when skinning fish?

That's sort of relevant to know before screaming about P2W.

I'm guessing 0.0000000001% and that OP is spot on. But hopefully I'm wrong.

milesrodneymcneely2_ESO · June 2015

LordAsp wrote: »

Maybe now nirncrux farmers won't leave crawlers and worms on the nodes so they don't respawn. They'll actually gather them or sell them in guild traders to fishers to farm for Perfect Roe.

Those people are the WORST.

On a scale of 0 - Pure Evil, they are the love child of Mannimarco, Adolf ***, Molag Bal, and Peter Moore.

Yeah, I know that's more than 2 parents, but they are THAT evil.

leandro.800ub17_ESO · June 2015

Well good time to finish those fishing achivs. hahahahah

stupidmonkey · June 2015

washlov wrote: »

and whats the sense of spending ingametime for getting potions which saves time?

What's the point of fishing, if that is what you enjoy doing? Some people actually fish for fun.

I know when I have a limited amount of time, and can't commit time to doing some PvE stuff, I will just go fish.

Furor · June 2015

It seems the potions aren't buyable in the ESO store yet - are the Perfect Roe and Recipe fragments dropping yet? Or are those not yet implemented as well?

DDuke · June 2015

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

washlov wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

The entire point of the store is convenience, XP pots are like that. You can spend the time make them yourself or if you dont want to be bothered you can buy them for crowns. Thats convenience. Also when you make the pots in game you get more of them so they can last longer than purchasing them. All you have to do is max out provisioning. Which is a simple thing to do btw.

why you defend P2W or you hope it's not P2W?
there a n extra resource for the pots so its all controlled by zos and not the free market and it will be the most expensive pots
again they will be senseless if you have to spend ingametime for them to get

I know its not pay to win. Pay to win again the 1000th time means the only option is PAYING. I dont know how I can make it any clearer.

Sorry, but you don't get to make this definition, no matter how much you scream.

By your definition, they could add (in a game with actual gear progression) the strongest gear in Cash Shop, and it wouldn't be P2W because you could get it in game as well.

What do you think people would say if they suddenly put Tier 18 Mythic gear in Cash Shop in WoW for instance?

This is why we can't define things depending on whether they're available or not in game, but how available they are.

If everyone can easily access XP boosters and keep them up 24/7 for small gold cost, then fine. But if they are off limits to people unless they pay $$$ due to high prices, well...

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Also you act like ZOS is some charity. Of course they want to make money. In a B2P or F2P world the cash shops are full of what I like to call pay to skip items. For example the xp pots dont give you xp. you have to actually go out and earn the xp you just get more of it. Same as people who pay for plus and people who paid for explorers pack to get ring of mara. Yet noone calls plus membership pay to win.

So to your definition they should sell nothing on the store but cosmetics. They should charge nothing per month either. How about like imperial race is that also pay to win?

B2P & F2P world is also full of P2W, which is why great many people prefer subscription model.
That said, not all B2P/F2P games are P2W.

For instance, XP boosters aren't that big of a deal when they work as they're supposed, as catch up mechanisms for new players.

This is not how they work in ESO, where the people you are trying to catch up are moving further and further away, even faster so with the power of these boosters, which are not limited to certain amount of CP, unless you talk about the cap, which most people will never reach and those who do will have spent year(s) doing so.

I honestly don't know why this is so hard to grasp.

The thing with Plus membership... sure, I consider it slightly P2W, but atleast it's something you get for doing the same you did before: subscribing. It doesn't cost you thousands of $$$, just 15$/month regardless of how much you play. There is no way for someone with lots of spare cash to leverage that advantage in game, like with these boosters.

Ikage · June 2015

yeah u dont know what pay to win is.. this is so far from pay to win my friend

nimander99 · June 2015

Ryuho wrote: »

Bla bla, good luck with catching golden fish needed to craft it Not mention of obtaininig a recipe.. But why doing fishing, which almost no1 ever made, better to buy potion from crown store! Anyway, we will see next days a lot of ppls trying to catch mighty golden fish, but drop rate will be extremaly low imo, happy fishing

I skinned 40 fish this morning just before work and got 2 Roe so its clearly not hard to come by...

nimander99 · June 2015

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

You can buy the same XP pots in the store 5 for 1000 crowns.

These were not in the crown store when I logged in this morning before work... are you saying they now are? I call Balderdash.

nimander99 · June 2015

eliisra wrote: »

What's the drop-rate for Perfect Roe when skinning fish?

That's sort of relevant to know before screaming about P2W.

I'm guessing 0.0000000001% and that OP is spot on. But hopefully I'm wrong.

I skinned 40 fish and got 2 this morning, took about 20 minutes total.

Saltypretzels · June 2015

Valrien wrote: »

Saltypretzels wrote: »

Wow, ESO lost its integrity a lot faster than I thought it would.

Obviously everyone has their own definition of what P2W is. Mine is that if someone can pay real money and get stronger faster than me, it is P2W. The XP pots qualify. I don't care if all MMOs do it. I don't like it when they do it either.

Another reason to not return to the game. I keep holding this unrealistic hope that ESO will become the game they first advertised two years, which is why I keep wandering back to these forums.

Your definition is wrong. Even then, these aren't on the crown store as of now, so it's also irrelevant. Once they are, then maybe, but considering these are available ingame, they are not pay to win in the slightest.

No, you are wrong.

See, two people can play that game.

Just thinking really strongly about something doesn't make you right about it. Obviously that goes for me too. Kind of like religion, actually.

That's why my point is: this is P2W for me (at least once the pots go to the crown store), and that severely impacts my desire to play the game. Nothing you can say will convince me otherwise, and it seems vice-versa is true also. Ah, the internet.

washlov · June 2015

stupidmonkey wrote: »

washlov wrote: »

and whats the sense of spending ingametime for getting potions which saves time?

What's the point of fishing, if that is what you enjoy doing? Some people actually fish for fun.

I know when I have a limited amount of time, and can't commit time to doing some PvE stuff, I will just go fish.

? nice you enjoy fishing
what this have to do with P2W

Hexyl · June 2015

craftable xp boost pots = 50% xp 30 min

Scroll store xp boost = 50% xp 2 hours

..

Even if the time to craft this pots isn't that long ( And it's sure it is). You need 4 of them to be equal to the store item.

Dekken_Blake · June 2015

Productive thread bro.

Furor · June 2015

Hexyl wrote: »

craftable xp boost pots = 50% xp 30 min

Scroll store xp boost = 50% xp 2 hours

..

Even if the time to craft this pots isn't that long ( And it's sure it is). You need 4 of them to be equal to the store item.

If you have the Brewer and Connoisseur skills for "1" craft you'll produce 4 50% experience potions. Each of those 4 potions will last 50 minutes. Thus resulting in "1" craft to be equal to 3 hours and 20 minutes of experience boost length.

Therefore; the crafted potions last longer than the store bought version.

Chillic · June 2015

Hexyl wrote: »

craftable xp boost pots = 50% xp 30 min

Scroll store xp boost = 50% xp 2 hours

..

Even if the time to craft this pots isn't that long ( And it's sure it is). You need 4 of them to be equal to the store item.

And with the provisioning passives, you can craft 4 at a time

Armitas · June 2015

P2W from urban dictionary. - Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items then everyone else at a faster rate and then makes the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying.

This definition accounts for availability and speed. In situations where there is a cash shop corporations will often try to present the illusion that it is not P2W by providing a non cash based method to acquire the same item. What is unrealized by the players is that the in-game item is not released to compete with the cash shop, it is released to be defeated by the cash shop. Traditionally they never release a solution that competes with the cash shop.

NobleNerd · June 2015

Rhakon wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

washlov wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

If I recall we can also make these potions. So how is it a P2W if we can make it in game? Cause What I'm seeing is either buy a factory product which is the easiest option or make it home made which is harder but worth it. That is honestly how I see the crown store is just a factory so to speak cause most of the stuff in there we can either get such as motifs or make such as the food and potions. Only thing really crown only are the mounts and costumes and they don't effect game play at all.

in crownstore you can buy the pots instant and farm.........make the pots ingame costs ingametime(gold or craft)so the boost is worthless....

Sheezabeast wrote: »

I just don't see what there is to win Anyone can level, anyone can save gold to buy items. Anyone that takes the time to level provisioning as well as putting points into it that they could have used in any other skill tree deserves to make awesome food and drinks and they take time to invest time to do writs and gather ingredients. It's silly to say this game has went P2W. Even if these went to the crown store, it would only benefit lazies with money to burn. And these drinks can be bought in guild stores once they start being made. Just relax and either earn stuff or buy what you don't want to make. CPs are easy to get if you put the time and effort into them.

without champion system there would be no P2W only get faster V14 which not is a big deal but deal mor dmg cause saving time is clear P2W

The entire point of the store is convenience, XP pots are like that. You can spend the time make them yourself or if you dont want to be bothered you can buy them for crowns. Thats convenience. Also when you make the pots in game you get more of them so they can last longer than purchasing them. All you have to do is max out provisioning. Which is a simple thing to do btw.

Ofcourse its convenience, but the Championssystem makes this P2W.

They have only put in the craftable feature right now. This gives players time to collect the recipe and start crafting. It will be available in game and in the Crown Store..... hardly p2w when everyone will be able to get an item that gives the same xp% boost.

nimander99 · June 2015

eliisra wrote: »

What's the drop-rate for Perfect Roe when skinning fish?

That's sort of relevant to know before screaming about P2W.

I'm guessing 0.0000000001% and that OP is spot on. But hopefully I'm wrong.

I skinned 40 fish and got 2 this morning, took about 20 minutes total.

Armitas wrote: »

P2W from urban dictionary. - Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items then everyone else at a faster rate and then makes the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying.

This definition accounts for availability and speed. In situations where there is a cash shop corporations will often try to present the illusion that it is not P2W by providing a non cash based method to acquire the same item. What is unrealized by the players is that the in-game item is not released to compete with the cash shop, it is released to be defeated by the cash shop. Traditionally they never release a solution that competes with the cash shop.

hmmmm...

idk · June 2015

washlov wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

Saltypretzels wrote: »

Wow, ESO lost its integrity a lot faster than I thought it would.

Obviously everyone has their own definition of what P2W is. Mine is that if someone can pay real money and get stronger faster than me, it is P2W. The XP pots qualify. I don't care if all MMOs do it. I don't like it when they do it either.

Another reason to not return to the game. I keep holding this unrealistic hope that ESO will become the game they first advertised two years, which is why I keep wandering back to these forums.

Your definition is wrong. Even then, these aren't on the crown store as of now, so it's also irrelevant. Once they are, then maybe, but considering these are available ingame, they are not pay to win in the slightest.

its P2W get it
in crownstore you can buy the pots instant and farm.........make the pots ingame costs ingametime(gold or craft)so the boost is worthless....

In some extremely broad sense of the definition in an alternate realm you may be correct. Maybe.

mikifox · June 2015

You are paying crowns for the convenience of not having to farm the items to make the potion in game, nothing more, nothing less. Heck I have no problems affording the XP potions off the crown store but I am not going to buy them until I have made my own a few times. In the end it is a game and if you want to use the crown store, or envy those who do, you are in the end just upset you have to play the game to earn rewards. It's an interesting new thing to go out and get, sure I will probably buy some for crowns but not until I have played through to appreciate the convenience offered by Zenimax through the crown store. I mean in the end, they could have not put the XP potions on the crown store at all and the gripe would be about it being too hard to get from the people who either have little time to play and grind CP organically, or just the lazies that like to complain for the sake of complaining.

TLDR: It's a game, either play it and earn your rewards, or earn the money IRL to buy them, the choice is yours.

BesMaster · June 2015

I don't see nothing about crown store exp pots in patchnotes 2.0.11. So then i don't see P2W here. Close topic please.

Armitas · June 2015

nimander99 wrote: »

eliisra wrote: »

What's the drop-rate for Perfect Roe when skinning fish?

That's sort of relevant to know before screaming about P2W.

I'm guessing 0.0000000001% and that OP is spot on. But hopefully I'm wrong.

I skinned 40 fish and got 2 this morning, took about 20 minutes total...

In 20minutes 233,000 xp can be made while grinding. That is over half a CP.

nimander99 · June 2015

BesMaster wrote: »

I don't see nothing about crown store exp pots in patchnotes 2.0.11. So then i don't see P2W here. Close topic please.

This is what I am wondering... cause I checked the crown store this morning and there was no exp boosts available, did they magically appear?

Rhakon · June 2015

NobleNerd wrote: »

Rhakon wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

washlov wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

If I recall we can also make these potions. So how is it a P2W if we can make it in game? Cause What I'm seeing is either buy a factory product which is the easiest option or make it home made which is harder but worth it. That is honestly how I see the crown store is just a factory so to speak cause most of the stuff in there we can either get such as motifs or make such as the food and potions. Only thing really crown only are the mounts and costumes and they don't effect game play at all.

in crownstore you can buy the pots instant and farm.........make the pots ingame costs ingametime(gold or craft)so the boost is worthless....

Sheezabeast wrote: »

I just don't see what there is to win Anyone can level, anyone can save gold to buy items. Anyone that takes the time to level provisioning as well as putting points into it that they could have used in any other skill tree deserves to make awesome food and drinks and they take time to invest time to do writs and gather ingredients. It's silly to say this game has went P2W. Even if these went to the crown store, it would only benefit lazies with money to burn. And these drinks can be bought in guild stores once they start being made. Just relax and either earn stuff or buy what you don't want to make. CPs are easy to get if you put the time and effort into them.

without champion system there would be no P2W only get faster V14 which not is a big deal but deal mor dmg cause saving time is clear P2W

The entire point of the store is convenience, XP pots are like that. You can spend the time make them yourself or if you dont want to be bothered you can buy them for crowns. Thats convenience. Also when you make the pots in game you get more of them so they can last longer than purchasing them. All you have to do is max out provisioning. Which is a simple thing to do btw.

Ofcourse its convenience, but the Championssystem makes this P2W.

They have only put in the craftable feature right now. This gives players time to collect the recipe and start crafting. It will be available in game and in the Crown Store..... hardly p2w when everyone will be able to get an item that gives the same xp% boost.

rly should it be so easy to justify such items....
you dont think there is a plan to keep us as quiet as possible and introduce this to us in this way. seems to work. this makes me sad.

AZRainman · June 2015

Cuyler wrote: »

You'll need an XP boost after all the time wasted to fish for Perfect Roe lol. not P2W just yet

LOL, now all we need is fishing skills.

ssewallb14_ESO · June 2015

Call it what you want, I won't support this. Paying for more progression with a ceiling that won't be reached by normal players for years = no thx. Other games have tried this, it ends in the same way as other p2w strategies. And no, the alternative that's grindwall'd into ineffectiveness doesn't make it ok.