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Pay2win! Now its going live. 50%XP boosters work for Championspoints!
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WebBull✭✭✭✭✭
✭Championpoints make you stronger, you can soon buy them....there is nothing more to say.
Skipping 50% of the content can make you weaker. Also in your original post you stated that eso subs should be getting full XP bonus. Isn't that P2W in your view? You sound extremely hypocritical.0 -
LillyAngel✭✭BloodWolfe wrote: »This is NOT Pay 2 Win! People need to stop throwing that term around for anything and everything!
This is an in-game item! How is that P2W? Sure the cash shop will have an exp pot as well but P2W is buying something with real money that is NOT obtainable in-game. Since this is a player crafted item it is NOT P2W!
This game does not have a monthly sub anymore so they need to make money, if someone wants to spend real money on an exp boost then let him. You can still get the exp boost by creating it or buying it from a player with in-game currency too so who cares? Everyone wants everything for nothing these days. I HATE F2P/B2P games and prefer a subscription but as of right now ZOS hasn't crossed the line that will push me away.
I have spent some money on some cash shop mounts/pets since their is no subscription I spend about the equivalent on crowns as I would on a sub so that I can support the game. They need to make money somehow to keep the game going. A convenience item or 2 that are also available in-game does not make it P2W. If the exp boost was a crown shop only item then I can see the P2W argument but NOT as it currently stands!
Exactly!
I wouldn't even touch this game if it was free to play. Since it is not, i do understand why Zenimax is trying to sell some "perks" like that in a cash shop. They gotta make some money right?
On the other hand, they are giving you an option to make it yourself in game. And why would they give you a high chance to obtain such an item when there will be many people that will simply buy it from the crown store? There is always a trade off, if you do not want to pay then work harder to get it yourself in game. Also, many people will be selling parts of the recipe and ingredients needed to craft the potion so you always have a chance of getting the boost. Now, it's only up to you whether you want to do it the easy way or the hard way
Life is a dream for the wise, a game for the fool, a comedy for the rich, a tragedy for the poor.0 -
sheenkid✭I don't see how an xp booster is considered pay 2 win, all it does is help people level faster. What am I winning by reaching VR14 faster than someone else?
this.
its an xp pot. so? The only thing I'm mad about is that it wasn't available when i was grinding my second toon to vet levels.Sheenkid Von Danzig - VR16 Breton Templar Healer GoS2 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »BloodWolfe wrote: »This is NOT Pay 2 Win! People need to stop throwing that term around for anything and everything!
This is an in-game item! How is that P2W? Sure the cash shop will have an exp pot as well but P2W is buying something with real money that is NOT obtainable in-game. Since this is a player crafted item it is NOT P2W!
This game does not have a monthly sub anymore so they need to make money, if someone wants to spend real money on an exp boost then let him. You can still get the exp boost by creating it or buying it from a player with in-game currency too so who cares? Everyone wants everything for nothing these days. I HATE F2P/B2P games and prefer a subscription but as of right now ZOS hasn't crossed the line that will push me away.
I have spent some money on some cash shop mounts/pets since their is no subscription I spend about the equivalent on crowns as I would on a sub so that I can support the game. They need to make money somehow to keep the game going. A convenience item or 2 that are also available in-game does not make it P2W. If the exp boost was a crown shop only item then I can see the P2W argument but NOT as it currently stands!
P2W is about being forced to pay extra $$$ in order to win.
Are you able to grind 24/7 with the +50% XP buff up (i.e. are you able to afford purchasing them from store?), or will you be forced into Cash Shop and spending $$$?
No you wont because you can simply buy it in game. You dont need to buy it with real money. Hence why its not pay to win. You dont even have to buy it in game. Craft one yourself.
I can, because I have millions saved up.
Can my PvP oriented friends with 10k gold buy them, and keep them up 24/7? Can you gain enough gold while grinding CPs to sustain those buffs?
And how are you staying on top of the competition if you spend hours fishing, gaining 0 CP?
There's a lot of flaws in your argument, as usual.1 -
jamesharv2005ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I find this discution absolutley pointless. Anyway if it is p2w or not i know for sure that right now, with my 30 cp im so far behind that i wont catch up in any resonable time with this potion or without. The whole champion system makes me want to uninstall the game. Only 1 element of the game i find entertaining - pvp. I already see the difference 200 cp make. I dont want to see how much 400 will make.
You are 30cp behind what? What are you trying to catch up to?0 -
Acrolas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭12 XP from a wolf instead of 8.
I ART WINNINT NIRM
I'm pretty sure people are actually seeing this as an XP + XP boost, instead of XP + (XP/2).
It's a good bonus, but not a jumping-through-hoops-to-find-it one.
The worst thing about this is a year from now they'll probably do a massive XP nerf to bring the game back to their expectations. And then I'll get 3 XP from a wolf instead of 2 and you'll be able to experience the joys of Craglorn from level 1.signing off0 -
Pheefs✭✭✭✭✭wait.... Pay to Win what exactly?
$ won't make me The Emperor{ Forums are Weird........................ Nerfy nerfing nerf nerfers, buff you b'netches!....................... Popcorn popcorn! }1 -
Valrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »BloodWolfe wrote: »This is NOT Pay 2 Win! People need to stop throwing that term around for anything and everything!
This is an in-game item! How is that P2W? Sure the cash shop will have an exp pot as well but P2W is buying something with real money that is NOT obtainable in-game. Since this is a player crafted item it is NOT P2W!
This game does not have a monthly sub anymore so they need to make money, if someone wants to spend real money on an exp boost then let him. You can still get the exp boost by creating it or buying it from a player with in-game currency too so who cares? Everyone wants everything for nothing these days. I HATE F2P/B2P games and prefer a subscription but as of right now ZOS hasn't crossed the line that will push me away.
I have spent some money on some cash shop mounts/pets since their is no subscription I spend about the equivalent on crowns as I would on a sub so that I can support the game. They need to make money somehow to keep the game going. A convenience item or 2 that are also available in-game does not make it P2W. If the exp boost was a crown shop only item then I can see the P2W argument but NOT as it currently stands!
P2W is about being forced to pay extra $$$ in order to win.
Are you able to grind 24/7 with the +50% XP buff up (i.e. are you able to afford purchasing them from store?), or will you be forced into Cash Shop and spending $$$?
No you wont because you can simply buy it in game. You dont need to buy it with real money. Hence why its not pay to win. You dont even have to buy it in game. Craft one yourself.
I can, because I have millions saved up.
Can my PvP oriented friends with 10k gold buy them, and keep them up 24/7? Can you gain enough gold while grinding CPs to sustain those buffs?
And how are you staying on top of the competition if you spend hours fishing, gaining 0 CP?
There's a lot of flaws in your argument, as usual.
How do your PvP friends only have 10k gold? Most of the money items COME from PvP. Your argument is highly invalid.Valrien Dravic -- Level 50 Dunmeri Sorcerer (EP)
Garahel Dravic -- Level 50 Bosmeri Nightblade (EP)Tamriel Unlimited was a mistake. One Tamriel was a bigger mistake1 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »BloodWolfe wrote: »This is NOT Pay 2 Win! People need to stop throwing that term around for anything and everything!
This is an in-game item! How is that P2W? Sure the cash shop will have an exp pot as well but P2W is buying something with real money that is NOT obtainable in-game. Since this is a player crafted item it is NOT P2W!
This game does not have a monthly sub anymore so they need to make money, if someone wants to spend real money on an exp boost then let him. You can still get the exp boost by creating it or buying it from a player with in-game currency too so who cares? Everyone wants everything for nothing these days. I HATE F2P/B2P games and prefer a subscription but as of right now ZOS hasn't crossed the line that will push me away.
I have spent some money on some cash shop mounts/pets since their is no subscription I spend about the equivalent on crowns as I would on a sub so that I can support the game. They need to make money somehow to keep the game going. A convenience item or 2 that are also available in-game does not make it P2W. If the exp boost was a crown shop only item then I can see the P2W argument but NOT as it currently stands!
P2W is about being forced to pay extra $$$ in order to win.
Are you able to grind 24/7 with the +50% XP buff up (i.e. are you able to afford purchasing them from store?), or will you be forced into Cash Shop and spending $$$?
No you wont because you can simply buy it in game. You dont need to buy it with real money. Hence why its not pay to win. You dont even have to buy it in game. Craft one yourself.
I can, because I have millions saved up.
Can my PvP oriented friends with 10k gold buy them, and keep them up 24/7? Can you gain enough gold while grinding CPs to sustain those buffs?
And how are you staying on top of the competition if you spend hours fishing, gaining 0 CP?
There's a lot of flaws in your argument, as usual.
How do your PvP friends only have 10k gold? Most of the money items COME from PvP. Your argument is highly invalid.
I don't know, maybe people spend hundreds of potions each day in PvP? Could that be a thing?
I've spent last few weeks in PvP exclusively, and went from 5m to 4,5m during that time.Edited by DDuke on June 15, 2015 4:29PM0 -
jamesharv2005ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »BloodWolfe wrote: »This is NOT Pay 2 Win! People need to stop throwing that term around for anything and everything!
This is an in-game item! How is that P2W? Sure the cash shop will have an exp pot as well but P2W is buying something with real money that is NOT obtainable in-game. Since this is a player crafted item it is NOT P2W!
This game does not have a monthly sub anymore so they need to make money, if someone wants to spend real money on an exp boost then let him. You can still get the exp boost by creating it or buying it from a player with in-game currency too so who cares? Everyone wants everything for nothing these days. I HATE F2P/B2P games and prefer a subscription but as of right now ZOS hasn't crossed the line that will push me away.
I have spent some money on some cash shop mounts/pets since their is no subscription I spend about the equivalent on crowns as I would on a sub so that I can support the game. They need to make money somehow to keep the game going. A convenience item or 2 that are also available in-game does not make it P2W. If the exp boost was a crown shop only item then I can see the P2W argument but NOT as it currently stands!
P2W is about being forced to pay extra $$$ in order to win.
Are you able to grind 24/7 with the +50% XP buff up (i.e. are you able to afford purchasing them from store?), or will you be forced into Cash Shop and spending $$$?
No you wont because you can simply buy it in game. You dont need to buy it with real money. Hence why its not pay to win. You dont even have to buy it in game. Craft one yourself.
I can, because I have millions saved up.
Can my PvP oriented friends with 10k gold buy them, and keep them up 24/7? Can you gain enough gold while grinding CPs to sustain those buffs?
And how are you staying on top of the competition if you spend hours fishing, gaining 0 CP?
There's a lot of flaws in your argument, as usual.
There are no flaws just you always use these wild hyperbole arguments. First off noone will keep these up 24/7. Humans have to do things like sleep and eat. Alot of us have to do this stuff called working or we dont have money. Fact is the CP difference means nothing except to people with no skill who need that kind of stuff to prop them up. CP doesnt affect you as much as skill does.
That being said I remember you now from the other thread. No matter what anyone says you have it stuck in your head. So really pointless to argue with a brick wall. Pots are going to be in the game. As you said you can buy them in the game or craft them. So you are just arguing to argue.1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
THANK YOU! I can't see why people don't understand this. I see people making so many "P2W" posts and the closest thing to P2W in this game is Imperial, and perhaps not even then.
I disagree. Paying money to advance faster is also P2W, like in the case with riding lessons. And evidently lots of people see it the same way.
It's generally only considered P2W when it's only available via the cash shop. What is great is this change will be extremely lucrative for crafters in game. Of course some have seen almost anything as being P2W based on some of the forum posts I've seen.1 -
Valrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭You can also craft your own potions, you know, or flat out not use them.Valrien Dravic -- Level 50 Dunmeri Sorcerer (EP)
Garahel Dravic -- Level 50 Bosmeri Nightblade (EP)Tamriel Unlimited was a mistake. One Tamriel was a bigger mistake0 -
Valrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
or craft and THEN grind.Valrien Dravic -- Level 50 Dunmeri Sorcerer (EP)
Garahel Dravic -- Level 50 Bosmeri Nightblade (EP)Tamriel Unlimited was a mistake. One Tamriel was a bigger mistake0 -
Rhakon✭✭✭Championpoints make you stronger, you can soon buy them....there is nothing more to say.
Skipping 50% of the content can make you weaker. Also in your original post you stated that eso subs should be getting full XP bonus. Isn't that P2W in your view? You sound extremely hypocritical.
My opinion is that as long as there are such boosts the subs should be end of spending money.
now there is no end to the top, subs could be a healthy border for this, and could convince players to support the game on a constant way.
I does not like any advantages for players ingame, but when they are in it should be this way.
0 -
washlov✭✭✭
lol think crafting or gold farming cost time and a XP boost potion saves time what sense have this?
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Snit✭✭✭✭✭
✭
"Farming" these pots will probably amount to doing your provisioner writs (which some do anyway) and buying the rare ingredient on the marketplace.Snit AD Sorc
Ratbag AD Warden Tank
Goblins AD Stamblade0 -
Valrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
lol think crafting or gold farming cost time and a XP boost potion saves time what sense have this?
then it balances out. Craft, then pop a pot and grind. You've just made up the time it took you to craft and then some.Valrien Dravic -- Level 50 Dunmeri Sorcerer (EP)
Garahel Dravic -- Level 50 Bosmeri Nightblade (EP)Tamriel Unlimited was a mistake. One Tamriel was a bigger mistake0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »BloodWolfe wrote: »This is NOT Pay 2 Win! People need to stop throwing that term around for anything and everything!
This is an in-game item! How is that P2W? Sure the cash shop will have an exp pot as well but P2W is buying something with real money that is NOT obtainable in-game. Since this is a player crafted item it is NOT P2W!
This game does not have a monthly sub anymore so they need to make money, if someone wants to spend real money on an exp boost then let him. You can still get the exp boost by creating it or buying it from a player with in-game currency too so who cares? Everyone wants everything for nothing these days. I HATE F2P/B2P games and prefer a subscription but as of right now ZOS hasn't crossed the line that will push me away.
I have spent some money on some cash shop mounts/pets since their is no subscription I spend about the equivalent on crowns as I would on a sub so that I can support the game. They need to make money somehow to keep the game going. A convenience item or 2 that are also available in-game does not make it P2W. If the exp boost was a crown shop only item then I can see the P2W argument but NOT as it currently stands!
P2W is about being forced to pay extra $$$ in order to win.
Are you able to grind 24/7 with the +50% XP buff up (i.e. are you able to afford purchasing them from store?), or will you be forced into Cash Shop and spending $$$?
No you wont because you can simply buy it in game. You dont need to buy it with real money. Hence why its not pay to win. You dont even have to buy it in game. Craft one yourself.
I can, because I have millions saved up.
Can my PvP oriented friends with 10k gold buy them, and keep them up 24/7? Can you gain enough gold while grinding CPs to sustain those buffs?
And how are you staying on top of the competition if you spend hours fishing, gaining 0 CP?
There's a lot of flaws in your argument, as usual.
There are no flaws just you always use these wild hyperbole arguments. First off noone will keep these up 24/7. Humans have to do things like sleep and eat.
Cool, tell that to the people with 500+ CPs already
jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »Alot of us have to do this stuff called working or we dont have money.
And you're begging to (be forced to) pay more of that money, because...?jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »Fact is the CP difference means nothing except to people with no skill who need that kind of stuff to prop them up. CP doesnt affect you as much as skill does.
Ok, I'd like you to place yourself on top of PvE leaderboards with your 15 CPs. Go ahead.
Or alternatively, beat one of the players with 500+ CPs. That should be interesting.jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »That being said I remember you now from the other thread. No matter what anyone says you have it stuck in your head. So really pointless to argue with a brick wall. Pots are going to be in the game. As you said you can buy them in the game or craft them. So you are just arguing to argue.
Actually, I'm arguing to save this game.
Current implementation does not affect me in any manner, as I have enough gold to purchase in game boosters until 3600 CPs (unless I have wildly miscalculated their price estimation).
My situation however is not the situation of everyone. People not fortunate enough to have saved millions of gold will be forced to pay $$$ in order to compete, and that is wrong not just for them, but for me also.
I do not want to fight opponents that are weak only because they possess ethics & resist corporate greed (because that is all this is) and refuse to partake in P2W, nor am I interested in them or myself quitting the game, leading to less & less populated servers, less opponent diversity & less healthy game.Edited by DDuke on June 15, 2015 4:38PM2 -
Valrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭You don't need 3600 CPs. 1080 will effectively max you out. There are hardcore diminishing returns per point put into a Champion passive past 30, so you only need 30 per passive, therefore 1080 CP.
What I don't think you get, is that the CP is pointless if you have no skill at the game. And even then, you don't HAVE to use the pots to gind. People have grinded without them, some will probably continue to grind without them.Edited by Valrien on June 15, 2015 4:40PMValrien Dravic -- Level 50 Dunmeri Sorcerer (EP)
Garahel Dravic -- Level 50 Bosmeri Nightblade (EP)Tamriel Unlimited was a mistake. One Tamriel was a bigger mistake1 -
washlov✭✭✭
lol think crafting or gold farming cost time and a XP boost potion saves time what sense have this?
then it balances out. Craft, then pop a pot and grind. You've just made up the time it took you to craft and then some.
yes so its P2W crownstore can buy instant and farm.........make the pots ingame costs ingametime(gold or craft)so the boost is worthless....0 -
Valrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
lol think crafting or gold farming cost time and a XP boost potion saves time what sense have this?
then it balances out. Craft, then pop a pot and grind. You've just made up the time it took you to craft and then some.
yes so its P2W crownstore can buy instant and farm.........make the pots ingame costs ingametime(gold or craft)so the boost is worthless....
I don't think you know what P2W means...
Valrien Dravic -- Level 50 Dunmeri Sorcerer (EP)
Garahel Dravic -- Level 50 Bosmeri Nightblade (EP)Tamriel Unlimited was a mistake. One Tamriel was a bigger mistake1 -
Furor✭✭✭For everyone who thinks these XP potions will break the game, please refer to my post here:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/176211/experience-point-boosters/p9Furor Darkblade - VR16 Nightblade - Daggerfall Covenant0 -
washlov✭✭✭its pay to get a advantage over other players and this is it
i dont get it why somebody defends this
it's only about the money and they get you
why not make leveling easier to all?0 -
Saltypretzels✭✭✭✭Wow, ESO lost its integrity a lot faster than I thought it would.
Obviously everyone has their own definition of what P2W is. Mine is that if someone can pay real money and get stronger faster than me, it is P2W. The XP pots qualify. I don't care if all MMOs do it. I don't like it when they do it either.
Another reason to not return to the game. I keep holding this unrealistic hope that ESO will become the game they first advertised two years, which is why I keep wandering back to these forums.2 -
Valrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Saltypretzels wrote: »Wow, ESO lost its integrity a lot faster than I thought it would.
Obviously everyone has their own definition of what P2W is. Mine is that if someone can pay real money and get stronger faster than me, it is P2W. The XP pots qualify. I don't care if all MMOs do it. I don't like it when they do it either.
Another reason to not return to the game. I keep holding this unrealistic hope that ESO will become the game they first advertised two years, which is why I keep wandering back to these forums.
Your definition is wrong. Even then, these aren't on the crown store as of now, so it's also irrelevant. Once they are, then maybe, but considering these are available ingame, they are not pay to win in the slightest.Valrien Dravic -- Level 50 Dunmeri Sorcerer (EP)
Garahel Dravic -- Level 50 Bosmeri Nightblade (EP)Tamriel Unlimited was a mistake. One Tamriel was a bigger mistake0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭You don't need 3600 CPs. 1080 will effectively max you out. There are hardcore diminishing returns per point put into a Champion passive past 30, so you only need 30 per passive, therefore 1080 CP.
What I don't think you get, is that the CP is pointless if you have no skill at the game. And even then, you don't HAVE to use the pots to gind. People have grinded without them, some will probably continue to grind without them.
Education time I guess.
Difference between 30 points in Mighty and 100 points in Mighty alone is 14.3% damage, and same kind of scaling applies to every passive that goes up to 25%.
Of course skill matters, but it's not a choose one scenario. You can have both skill and CPs (shocking, I know).
And no, you can grind without them of course, you'll just gradually grow weaker than people who grind with them.
Sorry but this all seems so elementary to me, how can people not understand it, even after it being repeatedly explained?Edited by DDuke on June 15, 2015 5:13PM2 -
Valrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭You don't need 3600 CPs. 1080 will effectively max you out. There are hardcore diminishing returns per point put into a Champion passive past 30, so you only need 30 per passive, therefore 1080 CP.
What I don't think you get, is that the CP is pointless if you have no skill at the game. And even then, you don't HAVE to use the pots to gind. People have grinded without them, some will probably continue to grind without them.
Education time I guess.
Difference between 30 points in Mighty and 100 points in Mighty alone is 24.3% damage, and same kind of scaling applies to every passive that goes up to 25%.
Of course skill matters, but it's not a choose one scenario. You can have both skill and CPs (shocking, I know).
And no, you can grind without them of course, you'll just gradually grow weaker than people who grind with them.
Sorry but this all seems so elementary to me, how can people not understand it, even after it being repeatedly explained?
I know it's not a choose one scenario, but what I'm saying is skill matters. You can grind for 100s of hours to gain 100s of points, but if you don't have skill, you will always be beaten by someone with skill, CP or no.
Not to mention that you don't need 3600 OR 1080 CP, considering that not every build can use every CP.Valrien Dravic -- Level 50 Dunmeri Sorcerer (EP)
Garahel Dravic -- Level 50 Bosmeri Nightblade (EP)Tamriel Unlimited was a mistake. One Tamriel was a bigger mistake0
