Tier-cap CP for catch-up.

Phinix1 · June 2015

It has been discussed much already. A new level 10 player goes into PVP and runs into an "immortal" player with full nirnhoned and 300+ CP, and doesn't stand a snowball's chance in Oblivion regardless of skill.

The current "cap" on total CP is 3600, however I propose a "tiered cap" of 360 per "season" which limits the maximum total CP you can gain during a period of time. This would allow new players a chance to catch up to the no-lifers and remove the incentive for those "quantity over quality" types to marathon their way into an embolism-induced early grave.

I propose that for this first "season", lasting until sometime in Q3 2015, that the maximum CP anyone should be allowed to accumulate should be 360. I know some no-lifers have already passed that, but as a general rule.

Once you have reached this point your progress will be halted until the cap is raised.

I think this is a fair way to prevent the game from becoming totally repellant to new players which will only cause ALL of us to suffer when revenue continues to plummet and the game is eventually abandoned to go the way of so many cash-shop cash-outs to compensate.

Nifty2g · June 2015

no

Phinix1 · June 2015

Nifty2g wrote: »

no

Yes, the obligatory "no" post. Your originality and insight is an inspiration to us all.

Zyle · June 2015

I think that's a good idea, or even something along the lines of diminshed returns. CP gap will be crazy in a few months. I have a friend who is only grinding CP until he hits 500, then is going to PVP to see what kind of difference it makes.

Korah_Eaglecry · June 2015

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

no

Yes, the obligatory "no" post. Your originality and insight is an inspiration to us all.

And your beating a dead horse topic is SOOOOO original.

Phinix1 · June 2015

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

no

Yes, the obligatory "no" post. Your originality and insight is an inspiration to us all.

And your beating a dead horse topic is SOOOOO original.

Have seen a LOT of threads talking about the CP gap problem, which is real and needs to be dealt with to prevent a loss of new player revenue.

I haven't seen ANY threads proposing an actual solution like capping CP gain in increments.

Nifty2g · June 2015

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

no

Yes, the obligatory "no" post. Your originality and insight is an inspiration to us all.

It's a little common sense. why on earth would they pause all character progression and leveling progression until people catch up? the whole reason for it is something to do.

Korah_Eaglecry · June 2015

Nifty2g wrote: »

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

no

Yes, the obligatory "no" post. Your originality and insight is an inspiration to us all.

It's a little common sense. why on earth would they pause all character progression and leveling progression until people catch up? the whole reason for it is something to do.

Not to mention Time Gating content never works out as the Developers, and those calling for it, ever intend. For instance. The reasoning behind the OPs post is to give players without all that CP a 'fair chance at winning'. But all itll really do it separate the haves and have nots even further as those already miles above other players in CPs will continue to be miles above others while the ones yet to even begin their ascent will have a harder time getting up there.

Draxys · June 2015

This is a terrible idea. You don't just halt progression of people because some newbies don't want to have a learning curve. You can't take CP away from people who would have earned them past your cap. Not to mention, I know of a good player who consistently crushes people, and he's way under the current CP average. Player skill will still trump tons of CP.

I understand that new players might have a hard time but this game is already casual friendly enough. Blackwater Blade is there for them, where people can survive and sprint forever due to battle leveling.

Phinix1 · June 2015

Nifty2g wrote: »

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

no

Yes, the obligatory "no" post. Your originality and insight is an inspiration to us all.

It's a little common sense. why on earth would they pause all character progression and leveling progression until people catch up? the whole reason for it is something to do.

To prevent a loss of new player revenue.
To avoid destroying PVP when only no-lifers can compete.
To avoid destroying end-game when only no-lifers can get into groups.
To avoid alienating 80% of the paying player-base that aren't no-lifers.
To remove the incentive for no-lifers to obsessively grind until they die of embolisms.

The system has repeatedly been stated by ZOS to be intended as a means of passively improving over time, not something to grind until your butt hemorrhages because of some latent stone-age need achieve an unfair advantage over the majority.

The system is a great way to progress and fills a niche during this lull of no new content, however it IS leading to the previous problems I have highlighted as have all the many "dead horse" threads about the CP gap problem.

There needs to be a middle ground to preserve PVP and end-game balance and to prevent no-lifers from destroying the sense of competition for everyone.

I believe this is the best possible solution.

PBpsy · June 2015

Nifty2g wrote: »

no

This.

BuggeX · June 2015

There will be some Major Balance update for pvp right after consol releas.
So lets w8 until them for cap the cp or rebalanc them.

Korah_Eaglecry · June 2015

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

no

Yes, the obligatory "no" post. Your originality and insight is an inspiration to us all.

It's a little common sense. why on earth would they pause all character progression and leveling progression until people catch up? the whole reason for it is something to do.

To prevent a loss of new player revenue.

To avoid destroying PVP when only no-lifers can compete.

To avoid destroying end-game when only no-lifers can get into groups.

To avoid alienating 80% of the paying player-base that aren't no-lifers.

To remove the incentive for no-lifers to obsessively grind until they die of embolisms.

The system has repeatedly been stated by ZOS to be intended as a means of passively improving over time, not something to grind until your butt hemorrhages because of some latent stone-age need achieve an unfair advantage over the majority.

The system is a great way to progress and fills a niche during this lull of no new content, however it IS leading to the previous problems I have highlighted as have all the many "dead horse" threads about the CP gap problem.

There needs to be a middle ground to preserve PVP and end-game balance and to prevent no-lifers from destroying the sense of competition for everyone.

I believe this is the best possible solution.

And finally the truth reveals itself. This isnt about 'fair play' its about wanting to play the game at a casual rate while still being able to easily out play others who have put more effort and time into getting themselves where they are.

The real problem is you either cant commit or wont commit the time and effort to get yourself where others are. And out of spite and jealousy your ramble on about balancing things out so that its harder for others do with their time and energy as they see fit.

eliisra · June 2015

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

no

Yes, the obligatory "no" post. Your originality and insight is an inspiration to us all.

This is why we need a disagree button. Always these ridiculous "no" posts, in every single suggestion thread

Topic: I do agree, would be great. Actually madness not to have a catch-up mechanic over time. ZoS will push away both new- and returning players, if the gap in CP becomes to big. But I feel about 99% sure it's coming in the future.

idk · June 2015

Nifty2g wrote: »

no

Agree. The ship has sailed and a season limitation means little.

Also, a level 10 player going against a well geared vet will likely get it handed to them regardless. Additionally, CP in comparing character lvl is rather mute since the player has the same CP on their lvl 10 as they have on their vet.

Phinix1 · June 2015

I already have several large guilds doing /feedback to request this in-game, and I encourage anyone who cares about balance and fair competition to do the same.

For those that suggest "just going to Blackwater" (non-vet PVP) perhaps you didn't realize that CP is account-wide and the BIGGEST problem is actually for those doing what you suggest as a solution, as they run into other level 10 players who get to use the 300+ CP they grind on their veteran alts? Not really much of a "solution" eh?

No one is suggesting taking away points from people already over the cap, but halting further progress IS needed AND appropriate.

Also, saying something doesn't make it true. For example, saying "time gating never works and only makes the problem worse" without any reasoning to support it sounds a lot like "don't take away my unfair advantage" to me.

The cap for the first period would be 360. The cap for the next would be 360 more than where you were at the transition or 720, whichever came first.

Any players below that cap would be able to catch up while those miles ahead would be halted. Lower players would likely not catch up completely, as they are probably lower because of a more casual playstyle which would not change, however it WOULD prevent no-lifers from pulling so far ahead as to completely destabilize the game's balance and sense of fair play.

This IS happening at present, as MANY threads will attest to. ZOS needs to step up and do something to preserve the sense of balance and fair play in this game marketed primarily on it's PVP.

Can you imagine the poor console scrubs facing PC transfers with full nirnhoned and 300+ CP out the gate? Not much incentive to continue playing or paying a sub to support further development there.

GG ZOS.

Nifty2g · June 2015

man i hate people like this trying to ruin the game because they cant keep up or cry because someone has 200 CP
i weep for the future of eso

Phinix1 · June 2015

Nifty2g wrote: »

man i hate people like this trying to ruin the game because they cant keep up or cry because someone has 200 CP
i weep for the future of eso

I have close to 300 CP, TYVM.

Also, mindless hatred is no substitute for an insightful position or intelligent point of view. Please contribute something constructive or move on.

NewBlacksmurf · June 2015

The posts are getting more and more odd.

Sacadon · June 2015

Pressing the "Disagree" button.

Many already have well over 400 CP BTW.

I do think we have a balance issue at hand, I just don't think tier restrictions are the way to go. I don't have the answers either, but do contemplate this on a frequent basis.

Trayyacakes · June 2015

No caps to champion points should not be installed.
However champion progress should evolve over the course of the game. I will be pulling numbers out of the air here to demonstrate my point.

Lets say the average champion point level right now is 200.
It would not be terrible for them to make the first 50 champion points only take 100k xp to get, the next 50 200k, the next 100 300k. This speeds up the process to get to the average/baseline. If this is monitored and changed ever 3 months or so it could work, but halting progress isn't a good idea.

Cuyler · June 2015

@AlienDiplomat

Although I agree that it's important not to discourage new players in joining ESO by having a immense power gap in the game, I'm not sure that capping or tiering CPs is the way to go about it. I like the "play as you like" style that the CS has, where if you chose to grind them you can, if not it's (theoretically) not a big deal.

With that said, IMO the real issue is that the system, as it currently is, was not scaled appropriately. At 3600 CP a character would basically be a god. We can already begin to see this as some players with only 300 CP are already just blazing through every dungeon like a knife through butter.

The system already has this "catch-up" mechanism built in....aka diminishing returns. The issue is that currently it's just not "diminishing" enough. In other words, as some analysis have shown, it is almost linear in trend, whereas it should be exponential in decreasing bonuses. Personally I feel this is the solution.

Weberda · June 2015

Insulting players by calling them "no-lifers" (or anything else for that matter) is sure way to blow any credibility your idea may have. And I rather doubt that halting progression for any player group for any reason is a good way to improve things regardless.

Frawr · June 2015

I completely disagree. I find this idea to run contrary to the entire spirit of the game.

The core principle here is 'play your way', not 'play your way upto this limit to let the casuals catch up'. It is appalling and selfish to demand that everyone slow down and wait for you because you want to go at your own pace.

Catch up should absolutely never ever exist. It completely destroys the whole system to allow latecomers to 'catch up'.

Catch up belittles the time and efforts put in by the other players.

If someone comes in late, the only area of the game where they will feel it is pvp. If they are a new player, damned right they should be rolled by someone who has spent the months building up their char. This is where the sense of effort and achievement comes into it.

murmur · June 2015

Better to make it kinda reverse way,

First season (current season): All champion points require 400k xp
Second season: All cp up to 360 require 200k xp and over 360 require 400k xp
Third season: Up to 360, 100k xp. 361 to 720, 200k xp. Over 720, 400k xp
Fourth season: Up to 720, 100k xp. 721 to 1080, 200k xp. Over 1080 400k xp

This way new players can actually catch up as they would get their first cp faster.

Prizax · June 2015

Don't worry man ZoS will eventually sell CP potions so that new players stay playing the game because if not they will leave the game because of the huge difference between old players which they also eventually quit the game...

Junipus · June 2015

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

no

Yes, the obligatory "no" post. Your originality and insight is an inspiration to us all.

How about oh hell no with bells on.

New players will always be at a disadvantage, it's what makes them learn how to play the game better and learn what works and what doesn't, not to mention providing incentive to catch up.

It's also a ridiculously short sighted idea. Even with a cap of 360 every 3 months, it won't help a new player 2 years down the line when even the worst no-lifer has over 2000 CP. It also fails to distinguish between the casual players and those who are more hardcore, despite how much they play or how long they've played for.

The system now is fine as it stands. New players will almost always get their asses handed to them in PVP but that's how it should be, and how it is in almost every game.

Naivefanboi · June 2015

Why not, lets pause content AND progress. Sounds right in line with the games direction.

Ojustaboo · June 2015

Just don't allow CP to have any effect in the non vet pvp campaign, alts still have them and once they hit vet campaigns can make full use of them.

Then the new player can do the non vet campaign without too much disadvantage and if they find vet too hard they can role another alt and pvp in non vet while they play their main in crag to earn CP

Xendyn · June 2015

*blink*
They moved this thread?

Ghostbane · June 2015

I don't personally agree with the OPs suggestion, I think it could potentially make matters worse.

Although, I do think they should increase the enlightenment backlog. Twelve CP is laughable. Then again, it could have the negative side effect of players straying off for long periods to build up their 'easy gain'.

Its a tough one. But I underline the belief that progression should not be blocked, delegated or obstructed in any way if players wish to legitimately progress.