Hirable NPC Companion concept

Xjcon · June 2015

Solo content is already easy, I don't see needing an NPC to help, the group content is meant to be played with other people or it would have been a single player.

I don't think its a bad idea all together but it's something for a single player game, I would like ZoS to put more resources in to creating more content for us to play.

parpin · June 2015

first of all in mmo the so called companion needs to have good AI and that cost alot to make..even if they go for it..there will be balance issue like healing companion quickly becomes favorite like in swtor..done it badly and for cash grap tricks like neverwinter and it will ruin the game.
just no please..the game as it is..still have balance issues..so nope.

parpin · June 2015

i also add this..the solution is scaling like what gw2 did...now you can solo the arah story mode and you do not need 4 more people or do it in the group,,also swtor has similar system where npcs helping finish raid content for story sake only and it is one time thing..questing and story must scale with number of players..now if you want to run dungeons and other stuff for gear and stuff..then you need to find group for it..as simple as that.

[Deleted User] · June 2015

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Jaxsun · June 2015

They use a similar concept in LOTRO, although they're are all combat related, not for crafting. I like it.

Gidorick · June 2015

I agree @parpin. Restricting gear and drops for when a Companion is used sounds like a good idea.

Gidorick · June 2015

Spectral_Lord wrote: »

Shadesofkin wrote: »

I wouldn't hate it, especially if they commented on the surroundings now and again.

Unpleasant Dragon's Dogma memories resurface...
Harpy! Harpy! Another Harpy!

you know Dragon's Dogma has an MMO coming out... don't you?

http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/04/06/dragons-dogma-online-will-run-at-1080p-60-fps-on-ps4

olemanwinter · June 2015

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

I mean, that's a whole lot of thought put in to a terrible idea. But it's still a terrible idea.

Substantive NPC assistance doesn't belong in MMOs, period.

I know Guild Wars wasn't a "true" mmo,... cough cough...but it was awesome, I played it for a decade, and it had exactly that.

Oh yeah...PERIOD!

Sneak_Thief · August 2015

Gidorick wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

I've never had to wait more than 10 minutes to get a full group for even the most "unpopular" content (Craglorn questing). Patience is a virtue.

10 minutes? That would be awesome! I've spent over an hour trying to piece together a group.

And not all of us has the time to futz around a dungeon's entrance waiting for other people that happen to want to do what we want to do. My game time is pretty sparse as it is and I got very tired of spending it trying to group.

I pay ZOS to play this game and I'm asking for some tools to make that time more efficient. It's not about patience when the LFG tools and grouping in general is terribly flawed.

Again, I 100% get why people wouldn't want to use Companion Mercs but there are many of us that would find them VERY useful. I have a friend that I group with on occasion and we have spent entire play sessions trying to fill out our group. There are times we find a group quickly, and those times are awesome! But the times that grouping is a chore is just simply wasting our time. It would have been much better if we could have just filled out our group with a few NPCs and been able to run the dungeon we wanted to run.

There should, however, be a disadvantage to using NPC Companions... A reason that people wouldn't just always run and go get an NPC. Maybe the gold cost should be higher? At any rate, thanks for giving more of your perspective.

Then you need to make more friends. Just running dungeons for a week, and I have enough top end competent people to run dungeons with so im never in an all pug group. If you can't find people to run with you haven't spent enough time making friends to make it happen as it should. Of course if you are terrible at dungeons people are less inclined to friend you.

Waffennacht · August 2015

I just wanted to say, you have an excellent idea here. Very well thought out, you have my vote!

Gidorick · August 2015

Sneak_Thief wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

I've never had to wait more than 10 minutes to get a full group for even the most "unpopular" content (Craglorn questing). Patience is a virtue.

10 minutes? That would be awesome! I've spent over an hour trying to piece together a group.

And not all of us has the time to futz around a dungeon's entrance waiting for other people that happen to want to do what we want to do. My game time is pretty sparse as it is and I got very tired of spending it trying to group.

I pay ZOS to play this game and I'm asking for some tools to make that time more efficient. It's not about patience when the LFG tools and grouping in general is terribly flawed.

Again, I 100% get why people wouldn't want to use Companion Mercs but there are many of us that would find them VERY useful. I have a friend that I group with on occasion and we have spent entire play sessions trying to fill out our group. There are times we find a group quickly, and those times are awesome! But the times that grouping is a chore is just simply wasting our time. It would have been much better if we could have just filled out our group with a few NPCs and been able to run the dungeon we wanted to run.

There should, however, be a disadvantage to using NPC Companions... A reason that people wouldn't just always run and go get an NPC. Maybe the gold cost should be higher? At any rate, thanks for giving more of your perspective.

Then you need to make more friends. Just running dungeons for a week, and I have enough top end competent people to run dungeons with so im never in an all pug group. If you can't find people to run with you haven't spent enough time making friends to make it happen as it should. Of course if you are terrible at dungeons people are less inclined to friend you.

My problem with that is I play sporadically and I'm in no "rush" so when I do friend someone 2 things happen, I'm not in when they're on again and then when I see them again, they're too far ahead of me to make grouping mutually beneficial.

NewBlacksmurf · April 2016

The base idea of a companion that plays is good. We now have assistants that perform merchant/bank/fence tasks so it's appropriate to allow combat support when solo, and in groups.

While many are grabbing onto a MMO's only do this.....I realized, I left the typical MMO because it didn't offer what RPGs do offer so while everything in the idea I'm not for, the base idea....heck yeah.

To be clear tho, this should not be 5000 crowns

Gidorick · April 2016

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

The base idea of a companion that plays is good. We now have assistants that perform merchant/bank/fence tasks so it's appropriate to allow combat support when solo, and in groups.

While many are grabbing onto a MMO's only do this.....I realized, I left the typical MMO because it didn't offer what RPGs do offer so while everything in the idea I'm not for, the base idea....heck yeah.

To be clear tho, this should not be 5000 crowns

I actually disagree with the design of the assistants @NewBlacksmurf. I really take issue with their permanence.

I would feel the same way if NPC combat companions were permanant purchases.

There's a HUGE difference between offering services and fundamentally changing how a player plays their game.

If NPC combat companions were buy-once-always-own it would chance the balance and expectations of PVE. They would become part of a build when what they should be are temporarily assists that fulfill a specific role.

I said as much in the Thieves Guild pts thread. My comment from there is in the spoiler below.

Gidorick wrote: »

I'm sure my concerns are gong to be overshadowed by those that are excited about Assistants. Most players just see a merchant they can access anywhere and are excited about the time saving mechanic. There are, however, some legitimate concerns regarding the current PTS implementation of Assistants. I personally try to look at what is good for the game and not just at what is good for Gid. All of my feedback can be filed under "General Feedback" maybe even tack on the word "Concerns" to that...

I wanted to wait to give feedback on the assistants concept until I actually got to check them out for myself and they appear to function similarly to how I feared they would. My chief concern with these is that Assistants will essentially remove one of the biggest reasons we have to visit towns. Now, I am not so much concerned with the functionality of the Assistants, I am concerned with the "permanent" nature of them.

Back in Feb 2015, I suggested the following on this thread (http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/149698/summonable-beast-merchants-and-banker-concept/p1)
A Mudcrab Merchant

A Creeper Fence

A Goblin Banker

In that thread I suggested the summonable merchants (assistants) be attached to consumables bought in the crown store. These items would be a consistent source of revenue... not a one time purchase.

I even suggested that ESO+ players be given reusable versions of these consumable items with a healthy cooldown in this thread here (http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/150450/eso-subscription-benefits-suggestions/p1), which would create value for the ESO+ sub.

The decision to NOT attach Assistants to consumables baffles me... especially considering that as a one time purchase, you buy them and you never EVER have to go to a merchant or your personal bank again.

This just seems like a really shortsighted design decision that will have a negative impact on possible future revenue generating crown store additions, such as bags (http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/162693/more-bags-and-encumbrance-concepts/p1).

Why would players buy additional bag space if they have a merchant to sell items to or a banker to access their bank for absolutely no additional cost? If the assistants were accessible via a consumable or had a cooldown (ESO+ suggestion above) players would regularly come upon situations where they have to make the decision to either buy more consumable items from the crown store or to go back to town. If ZOS added bags then players would have an additional choice in those situations. The point here is, with the Assistants designed as they are ZOS severely limits their options in the future, in terms of game mechanics and revenue generating items that could be added to the Crown Store.

Those are just my monetization and gameplay concerns. I'm also concerned with the fact that they are people... That decision seems odd, especially since The Elder Scrolls offers other alternatives. Having every player being allowed to summon a random mudcrab, a creeper, or a goblin makes MUCH more sense than having every player summon the EXACT same NPC to follow them around.

I sincerely hope @ZOS_RichLambert encourages the content designers to start looking at what players are suggesting when they go about designing an addition to ESO. I hope future Crown Store offerings are looking at ways to grow the game for the long haul and offer items that will not damage the established ESO game environment while simultaneously creating a long term revenue stream and not just offer items that will make an immediate buck.

If ZOS moves forward with the current Assistant design I truly believe they will have a long term negative impact on ESO... but if they are released, please release "skins" for these assistants over time to add variation to these tools. If ZOS releases skins regularly for these items, they can establish that regular revenue stream (until a player finds the ONE they want, of course), and there will be variety in game so everyone doesn't have the exact same assistants.

As a concept, Assistants are a great addition to ESO, but the current implementation on PTS is lacking.

JamilaRaj · April 2016

Gidorick wrote: »

If NPC combat companions were buy-once-always-own it would chance the balance and expectations of PVE. They would become part of a build when what they should be are temporarily assists that fulfill a specific role.

That has nothing to do with permanence. Balance could change just as well if they were temporary; that players would have to re-hire them would be only welcome by The Monetization Department. ZOS could even sell temporary assistants (i.e. run usual cash to gold conversion scheme) AND permanent assistants, for exorbitant prices of course, while designing future content so that it would be more or less unpalayble without them (even now, they can make a zone that is so annoying with running back to town and force players to either sub for crafting bag or buy a banker).

Korah_Eaglecry · April 2016

Laerania_ESO wrote: »

...doesn't belong to mmo... such ignorance lol. The point of having hirelings is exactly to not have to endure people like these.

Anyways, excellent idea! I'd just take care with the goldsink purpose on this, remember to whom you are giving the idea.

SWTOR would love to have a word with you.

Gidorick · April 2016

JamilaRaj wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

If NPC combat companions were buy-once-always-own it would chance the balance and expectations of PVE. They would become part of a build when what they should be are temporarily assists that fulfill a specific role.

That has nothing to do with permanence. Balance could change just as well if they were temporary; that players would have to re-hire them would be only welcome by The Monetization Department. ZOS could even sell temporary assistants (i.e. run usual cash to gold conversion scheme) AND permanent assistants, for exorbitant prices of course, while designing future content so that it would be more or less unpalayble without them (even now, they can make a zone that is so annoying with running back to town and force players to either sub for crafting bag or buy a banker).

Not really. Sure, there would be players that ALWAYS hire them and consider them in their builds, If they are permanent, you could always count on them being there and players would change the way they play the game because of them. They would become sort of required because you couldn't be competitive in PVE without them.

Having them temporary will have players constantly considering if they should or shouldn't hire the NPC. It would be a constant question and the "design" would be so that it's a temporary help. Heck, I even agree that we could have them "meet us" somewhere so that there aren't these hirable NPCs running about the above world.

It's a fine line to be sure @JamilaRaj , but I think it's a significant one

LadyNalcarya · April 2016

What are you talking about... Zos cant balance existing classes and skill lines and you're offering something that will add even more balance issues.
And if things like this would be sold in crown store, its p2w at its finest and is unacceptable.

Gidorick · April 2016

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

What are you talking about... Zos cant balance existing classes and skill lines and you're offering something that will add even more balance issues.
And if things like this would be sold in crown store, its p2w at its finest and is unacceptable.

Did you bother reading the OP @KoshkaMurka ? The Crown Store integration in this concept is purely cosmetic. The level of your merc is dependent on your level and the amount of gold you are willing to pay.

Pay GOLD to win, sure... but not pay to win.

LadyNalcarya · April 2016

Gidorick wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

What are you talking about... Zos cant balance existing classes and skill lines and you're offering something that will add even more balance issues.
And if things like this would be sold in crown store, its p2w at its finest and is unacceptable.

Did you bother reading the OP @KoshkaMurka ? The Crown Store integration in this concept is purely cosmetic. The level of your merc is dependent on your level and the amount of gold you are willing to pay.

Pay GOLD to win, sure... but not pay to win.

Well, since they've already started integrating cash shop companions so if they decide to make something like this, it might be another 5000 crowns feature.
And even if they would be hired for gold, they would basically become "must have" and people who dont hvae them will be in disadvantage - and not even all roleplayers wanna have bodyguards. People who hired them will farm the best gear faster, they would be able to skip learning curve of the game and get better scores. This is a serious balance issue.
I wouldnt mind if companions would only be available in solo content... But you said they SHOULD be allowed in trials etc. Why do you want to ruin the game for raiders?

Gidorick · April 2016

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

What are you talking about... Zos cant balance existing classes and skill lines and you're offering something that will add even more balance issues.
And if things like this would be sold in crown store, its p2w at its finest and is unacceptable.

Did you bother reading the OP @KoshkaMurka ? The Crown Store integration in this concept is purely cosmetic. The level of your merc is dependent on your level and the amount of gold you are willing to pay.

Pay GOLD to win, sure... but not pay to win.

Well, since they've already started integrating cash shop companions so if they decide to make something like this, it might be another 5000 crowns feature.
And even if they would be hired for gold, they would basically become "must have" and people who dont hvae them will be in disadvantage - and not even all roleplayers wanna have bodyguards. People who hired them will farm the best gear faster, they would be able to skip learning curve of the game and get better scores. This is a serious balance issue.
I wouldnt mind if companions would only be available in solo content... But you said they SHOULD be allowed in trials etc. Why do you want to ruin the game for raiders?

How to ruin the game for Raiders? If anything it'll just allow people to complete the raid that otherwise wouldn't have.

I seriously doubt there's any situation in which an NPC controlled by AI that is leveled to the player could out perform a character controlled by another player.

I'm pretty certain that those who are competitive players would never be satisfied with an NPC companion, because it just wouldn't be as smart or as quick as a human.

Couple to that the ability to disallow npc companions in groups and raids and the fact that those who use NPC Companions wouldn't be eligible for leaderboards, I fail to see ANY advantage a player using NPC Companions would have over those that choose not to use them and instead play with actual people. In fact, I see the opposite.

At least this way EVERYONE can complete the content available.

7788b14_ESO · April 2016

I like it and think it's a good idea.

TheShadowScout · April 2016

I really do not see much of any need for this, not enough to be worth the extera lag when everyone and their granny had to have an fighting companion in tow or get laughed at by their guildmates...

I also do not like the basic concept. Not for ESO. Its really not needed in PvE, it would have to be disabled for PvP, the only usefulness I can imagie is people who want to run a dungeon... and I would assume that NPCs might not be enough for a full dungeon, though they could make soloing public dungeons easier...

But all said and thought, I just don't think the option would be worth the effort.

Let the powers that be spend the efofrt in better ways... making more content for us... finishing barbershop sooner... adding class morphs, new weapon skills or regigious options... there are literally dozends of things I'd want to see before NPC companions!

Zorrashi · April 2016

I like most of the ideas presented, provided that they are extremely costly. If they don't take your coin, they better take your loot (or reduce the rate at which you can acquire loot). They should never make playing with actual players obsolete, and should instead be distinctly less skilled or useful than other players in order to ensure that actual player grouping is encouraged.

Hence why I dislike the entire concept of the "Skilled Companions" (except the bard). It will only be too easy for them to used to make a profit that is not only going to cover the expense for buying these companions, but for an actual profit for the player on the market. They start going past the "helping" boundary, and more into "doing your work" territory, and efficiently making participating in the market (made of other players) or gathering items yourself obsolete as they become the de facto 'best method' of getting materials. That they only gain ½ of the usual yield is of little consequence. You essentially made legalized farming bots.

That being said, I do like the overall idea.

NewBlacksmurf · April 2016

Gidorick wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

The base idea of a companion that plays is good. We now have assistants that perform merchant/bank/fence tasks so it's appropriate to allow combat support when solo, and in groups.

While many are grabbing onto a MMO's only do this.....I realized, I left the typical MMO because it didn't offer what RPGs do offer so while everything in the idea I'm not for, the base idea....heck yeah.

To be clear tho, this should not be 5000 crowns

I actually disagree with the design of the assistants @NewBlacksmurf. I really take issue with their permanence.

I would feel the same way if NPC combat companions were permanant purchases.

There's a HUGE difference between offering services and fundamentally changing how a player plays their game.

If NPC combat companions were buy-once-always-own it would chance the balance and expectations of PVE. They would become part of a build when what they should be are temporarily assists that fulfill a specific role.

I said as much in the Thieves Guild pts thread. My comment from there is in the spoiler below.

Gidorick wrote: »

I'm sure my concerns are gong to be overshadowed by those that are excited about Assistants. Most players just see a merchant they can access anywhere and are excited about the time saving mechanic. There are, however, some legitimate concerns regarding the current PTS implementation of Assistants. I personally try to look at what is good for the game and not just at what is good for Gid. All of my feedback can be filed under "General Feedback" maybe even tack on the word "Concerns" to that...

I wanted to wait to give feedback on the assistants concept until I actually got to check them out for myself and they appear to function similarly to how I feared they would. My chief concern with these is that Assistants will essentially remove one of the biggest reasons we have to visit towns. Now, I am not so much concerned with the functionality of the Assistants, I am concerned with the "permanent" nature of them.

Back in Feb 2015, I suggested the following on this thread (http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/149698/summonable-beast-merchants-and-banker-concept/p1)
A Mudcrab Merchant

A Creeper Fence

A Goblin Banker

In that thread I suggested the summonable merchants (assistants) be attached to consumables bought in the crown store. These items would be a consistent source of revenue... not a one time purchase.

I even suggested that ESO+ players be given reusable versions of these consumable items with a healthy cooldown in this thread here (http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/150450/eso-subscription-benefits-suggestions/p1), which would create value for the ESO+ sub.

The decision to NOT attach Assistants to consumables baffles me... especially considering that as a one time purchase, you buy them and you never EVER have to go to a merchant or your personal bank again.

This just seems like a really shortsighted design decision that will have a negative impact on possible future revenue generating crown store additions, such as bags (http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/162693/more-bags-and-encumbrance-concepts/p1).

Why would players buy additional bag space if they have a merchant to sell items to or a banker to access their bank for absolutely no additional cost? If the assistants were accessible via a consumable or had a cooldown (ESO+ suggestion above) players would regularly come upon situations where they have to make the decision to either buy more consumable items from the crown store or to go back to town. If ZOS added bags then players would have an additional choice in those situations. The point here is, with the Assistants designed as they are ZOS severely limits their options in the future, in terms of game mechanics and revenue generating items that could be added to the Crown Store.

Those are just my monetization and gameplay concerns. I'm also concerned with the fact that they are people... That decision seems odd, especially since The Elder Scrolls offers other alternatives. Having every player being allowed to summon a random mudcrab, a creeper, or a goblin makes MUCH more sense than having every player summon the EXACT same NPC to follow them around.

I sincerely hope @ZOS_RichLambert encourages the content designers to start looking at what players are suggesting when they go about designing an addition to ESO. I hope future Crown Store offerings are looking at ways to grow the game for the long haul and offer items that will not damage the established ESO game environment while simultaneously creating a long term revenue stream and not just offer items that will make an immediate buck.

If ZOS moves forward with the current Assistant design I truly believe they will have a long term negative impact on ESO... but if they are released, please release "skins" for these assistants over time to add variation to these tools. If ZOS releases skins regularly for these items, they can establish that regular revenue stream (until a player finds the ONE they want, of course), and there will be variety in game so everyone doesn't have the exact same assistants.

As a concept, Assistants are a great addition to ESO, but the current implementation on PTS is lacking.

Recall that long ago I shared with you that initially the mercenaries were part of the ZOS design in Cyrodil. Performance issues hit soon after launch but the assistants are very similar in a NPC that we can summon who performs services.
Bank and merchant differ in services from the merc but it always seemed to be from mercs and the many quests that NPCs follow us or if done right, they do parts of the quests for you from the starter island until much later in the quest lines.

Let's be honest...the grouping tool was literally completely disabled for over 9 months and now it's functionally is only limited to dungeons cause the other stuff either is gone or doesn't work by design in these phases. ZOS isn't trying to bring us to town ....they are intentionally trying to spread us out. Heals less targets, aoe hit less targets and there are daily caps as well as a significant drop in the exp from doing 1 random.

Trials on bet are so hard that it's only for the elites and Cyrodil if in a group more than 8 is just terrible.
It's all the design and I've stopped fighting parts of it and am trying to enjoy it now.

The game still has solo only and even has solo only endgame with almost no group endgame until the last DLC update so I personally like the change even tho I'm not for any solo only....because so much has changed to make the game solo-able for maybe 85% of the game....combat assistants don't mess up anything. They just give us something else to level up and maybe offer variety where there is opportunity.