Server Lag

Asteria2 · June 2015

Hello All,

This discussion is an attempt to bring more awareness to ZOS about the server lag. When I searched the forums for "lag" there are more than a hundred posts on the subject. Most of them are frustrated rantings, naming and shaming, trolling and generally hateful messages. That is understandable given how frustrating the lag is. However, this discussion is a legitimate attempt to share some of our experiences, with lag, with ZOS, in a calm and rant free method (hopefully that is possible). It is my hope that, if we can reasonably discuss the issue, we may see some results with a problem that has been rampant since the 1.4 patch.

Although I am sure this plea will be ignored by some, please DO NOT use this a way to bash other players, guilds, play styles and/or factions. That is not helpful. It just makes people angry and is likely an unfounded allegation. It is the game mechanics that are causing the problem and people are playing within the allowed game settings. The point is to share exactly what happened when you experienced lag. What you were doing, where and when. I ask that you be thoughtful in your posts and be as honest as you can. That way ZOS has a method by which to trace some of the patterns and just maybe find some of the reason behind the lag. If you have video of your game play that shows the lag, I am sure that maybe helpful as well.

While I am placing this discussion under the alliance war thread, because that is where the lag seems to have the biggest effect, this is a problem that affects us all, throughout all aspects of the game so I invite you to share both your PvE and PvP experiences.

I truly hope this discussion forum will be taken seriously by the company, my in-game reports, seemingly, are ignored, beyond an automated message informing me that ZOS will consider my report resolved if I do not reply in three days. I dislike the forums or at least the hate these particular forums seems to inspire, but they seem to be the only way to have our concerns recognized.

Once again please keep the trolling, naming and shaming, bashing, rants, etc. out of the discussion. If we can manage that maybe ZOS will take our complaints more seriously.

My recent lag experiences:

I am primarily a PvP player and I spend a lot of time in Cyrodiil. I have experienced PvP lag at all times of the day and in all servers. My most recent experience was in Chillrend at the Faregyl lumber mill. My group and other faction members were defending the the mill when our lag problems started. I believe there were 17 or 18 in my group and there was another group there as well. I am not sure how many were in the other group since we all just happened to be at the same place, but it looked to be equal numbers to my own group. We were being attacked by an opposing faction who had one group of equal numbers and another group that looked to be a little bit larger, but I didn't stop to count shields. The lag started before either faction attack. Just being near each other increased my ping to +999. when we attacked each other only AOE skills would go off, although they didn't seem to be doing damage. No channeled or extended cast time abilities would work. The skills I saw being used by both sides were the DK banner (sorry I don't know the exact name), invasion, soul tether, toppling charge, blazing/luminous shards, steel tornado, bombard, fire ring, healing springs, purge, meteor, dawn breaker and barrier. I am sure that is not all of them, but those are the ones I can remember. Sometimes it seemed the opposing faction's skill were able to hit us, but our were not able to hit them and sometimes the opposite was the case. I was using ball of light, daedric curse, crystal fragments, entropy, inevitable detonation and dawn breaker. I used dawn breaker once and my screen went black for about 30 seconds and then white for about a minute. Needless to say I didn't use that skill again. I was able to switch bars once and was stuck on my defense bar the rest of the time. I was using hardened ward, harness mana, healing ward, mage's fury, daedric mine field and overload. Overload heavy attacks were the only skill that worked for me during this lag. Also, 2 times I was knocked down and couldn't get back up for at least 30 seconds, I simply bounced along behind my group, stuck on the ground. 2 other times I was running forward, only to be rubber banded back about 10 meters. Eventually, the opposing faction was defeated and the lag somewhat subsided. We left the resource to find another place to fight with less numbers. Once we were on the opposite side of the map we stopped having lag issues. We were later told that there had been another large battle at Sejanus outpost at the same time.

My most recent PvE lag experience came from when I loaded into Glenumbra. I was riding my mount to the Harborage near Daggerfall and my game lagged from the wayshrine to the Harborage. Once I loaded into the Harborage the lag was gone. I had a similar experience in Stonefalls as well. I loaded into Davon's Watch and lagged for the entire time I rode from the wayshrine to that bank. Once in the bank the lag stopped. And I experanced the same thing in Reapers March. I loaded into Rawl'kha and lagged from the wayshrine to the blacksmith station. I did not enter any buildings that time and the lag continue for around 4-5 minutes.

Hopefully this is helpful! Please share similar experiences without naming and shaming, trolling, blaming other factions, players and/or guilds.

~Saru

LameoveR · June 2015

They are aware.

Asteria2 · June 2015

That isn't good enough LameoveR. ZOS isn't talking to us. All we get is we are working on it. Well they have been working on it for 6 months and that isn't good enough for me anymore. So to avoid the hate forums I am hoping this will bring constant attention or at the very least pin point some of the trouble. Probably won't but hey a person can dream

blabafat · June 2015

Hi Kate

"Working as intended"
"Will be addressed after console launch"

Vet PvP is dying. The maps nowadays look all one color. The lag makes it unplayable.

For the past week or so I've been spending my time doing pledges and PvP in blackwater blade(honestly SOO FUN)

Asteria2 · June 2015

Hi Blab!

Yeah BwB is pretty great.

Bouvin · June 2015

LameoveR wrote: »

They are aware.

Hopefully QA from Console doesn't delay a fix to lag for more months and months...

Bouvin · June 2015

katekatienancy wrote: »

That isn't good enough LameoveR. ZOS isn't talking to us. All we get is we are working on it. Well they have been working on it for 6 months and that isn't good enough for me anymore. So to avoid the hate forums I am hoping this will bring constant attention or at the very least pin point some of the trouble. Probably won't but hey a person can dream

They've admitted it's a core coding problem and can't be fixed without a major overhaul.

So to band-aid fix the problem they've implemented tactics that were supposed to bust up zergs. Like increased siege damage and proximity detonation.

Unfortunately, these "fixes" only empowered zergs. You now have proxy bombing zergs...

What they need to do is focus up on the core reasons players group up in large zergs:

Faster AP. You get AP at a faster rate while in a large zerg becuase of getting credit for all group kills
Easier to take objectives. If you outnumber the enemy 2-to-1 it makes taking a keep much easier.

Here's the solutions to both of these problems

Have AP fall off exponentially by group size. Once you hit a group of 24, you're only getting 1% of full AP, not 10%. Most of the zergs right now are farming zergs that just roll around active areas getting AP.
Add more map objectives to the map, that are important for map control, that are faster to take if undefended than keeps. Basically, this will allow smaller groups to flip these "mini-objectives" quicker *if undefended. Right now the zerg can effectively defend keeps because of the time it takes to capture one.. it gives plenty of time for the zerg to move and defend. Lower that time AND make more objectives and the zerg will be forced to split up to defend across the map.
Alternatively, you could move resources away from keeps. Because you need all 3 resources to port, if they were spread around the map it'd be more effective to send groups to take them back than just sending the zerg to take them after taking a keep.

AP and capturing objectives are the only 2 motivations to zerg. Take them away and the zergs will disperse.

Asteria2 · June 2015

Bouvin wrote: »

katekatienancy wrote: »

That isn't good enough LameoveR. ZOS isn't talking to us. All we get is we are working on it. Well they have been working on it for 6 months and that isn't good enough for me anymore. So to avoid the hate forums I am hoping this will bring constant attention or at the very least pin point some of the trouble. Probably won't but hey a person can dream

They've admitted it's a core coding problem and can't be fixed without a major overhaul.

So to band-aid fix the problem they've implemented tactics that were supposed to bust up zergs. Like increased siege damage and proximity detonation.

Unfortunately, these "fixes" only empowered zergs. You now have proxy bombing zergs...

What they need to do is focus up on the core reasons players group up in large zergs:
Faster AP. You get AP at a faster rate while in a large zerg becuase of getting credit for all group kills

Easier to take objectives. If you outnumber the enemy 2-to-1 it makes taking a keep much easier.

Here's the solutions to both of these problems
Have AP fall off exponentially by group size. Once you hit a group of 24, you're only getting 1% of full AP, not 10%. Most of the zergs right now are farming zergs that just roll around active areas getting AP.

Add more map objectives to the map, that are important for map control, that are faster to take if undefended than keeps. Basically, this will allow smaller groups to flip these "mini-objectives" quicker *if undefended. Right now the zerg can effectively defend keeps because of the time it takes to capture one.. it gives plenty of time for the zerg to move and defend. Lower that time AND make more objectives and the zerg will be forced to split up to defend across the map.

Alternatively, you could move resources away from keeps. Because you need all 3 resources to port, if they were spread around the map it'd be more effective to send groups to take them back than just sending the zerg to take them after taking a keep.

AP and capturing objectives are the only 2 motivations to zerg. Take them away and the zergs will disperse.

Interesting concepts. I for one hope they don't lower the AP. It is the only way I can make gold atm. I do like the idea of finding new objectives to break up the large groups. Although, I am not sure that it is when there is one or two 24 man groups facing each other that I get the lag, but when there are four or five of those groups together plus randoms that just happen to be in the same place. That is more of the case when I notice the lag. One of the factions did a good job the other night of splitting up their 3 groups of 24 on Chillrend and flagged 3 keeps. They won 2 of the 3 of those keeps. However, after the other keeps were taken they all came back to the last flagged keep and we had a 20 min lag battle, between their 48 and our 48. My brain still hurts.

Joy_Division · June 2015

Bouvin wrote: »

[*] Have AP fall off exponentially by group size. Once you hit a group of 24, you're only getting 1% of full AP, not 10%. Most of the zergs right now are farming zergs that just roll around active areas getting AP.

I don't know why so many people think this is a solution when it is easily circumvented. Go ahead and impose your AP restriction on large group size. I simply won't join my Guild Group and just follow them around farming AP while listening in TS.

Manoekin · June 2015

Joy_Division wrote: »

Bouvin wrote: »

[*] Have AP fall off exponentially by group size. Once you hit a group of 24, you're only getting 1% of full AP, not 10%. Most of the zergs right now are farming zergs that just roll around active areas getting AP.

I don't know why so many people think this is a solution when it is easily circumvented. Go ahead and impose your AP restriction on large group size. I simply won't join my Guild Group and just follow them around farming AP while listening in TS.

Not to mention it adversely affects the people who play group oriented builds, like say a healer.

RadioheadSh0t · June 2015

Joy_Division wrote: »

Bouvin wrote: »

[*] Have AP fall off exponentially by group size. Once you hit a group of 24, you're only getting 1% of full AP, not 10%. Most of the zergs right now are farming zergs that just roll around active areas getting AP.

I don't know why so many people think this is a solution when it is easily circumvented. Go ahead and impose your AP restriction on large group size. I simply won't join my Guild Group and just follow them around farming AP while listening in TS.

Agreed. There are already diminishing AP returns for increasing group size, O/D ticks are split amongst however many people are in range. There are plenty of small group/solo players who get loads of AP. Nerfing AP for groups to essentially zero isn't the solution to the problem, but it does create loads more. Doing so punishes the groups that are big enough to actually accomplish anything on the map, with the only goal to be to cater to one subset of players preferred playstyle.

But in his Bouvin's original proposal for this, he proposed nerfing it not just for groups, but players simply in the area (how this would be calculated was never elaborated). The result would be BwB caliber nonsense between outpost and keep, no actually gains made on the map with no groups able to form due to non-existent AP gains. Four man groups who sit on a transit line shouldn't get 'exponentially' more AP than groups who are actually participating, and winning, the battles that actually matter in the Alliance War.

I'm not asking people who prefer small group play to join large groups, but so often these players propose things that only benefit their preferred playstyle. No one likes 40-man trains, but if you're a group of four, you shouldn't expect to beat a group of 16. Asking for skills to be able to do so is also unrealistic, because they'd be ridiculously overpowered and those larger groups will just adopt and adapt.

Wycks · June 2015

This is REALLY is not up to the players to fix.

If ZOS doesn't understand there is a clear connection between $$$ and lag then what can you say? So far have a track record of losing truckloads of money because of poor buggy code, and this will continue because upper management seems clueless to enact change (or they jus leave zos for something better).

Jules · June 2015

Great post. It's time that more people start acknowledging that the issue resides in the game itself, and not opposing factions/guilds.

Lagged out servers isn't fun for anyone. It's boring and awful and takes away from the game entirely. I've had many experiences much like the one you described Kate. I'll discuss issues I had with 2 dk ultimates in particular.

I no longer run standard in pvp at all - but I remember one occasion when I first experienced real lag, I had it slotted. My skills were all not doing any damage. I pressed the button to drop my ultimate, but it did not drop. Naively, I didn't understand that the game had received my request for the ultimate drop, it had just not caught up to show the visual effect of the skill or to empty the ultimate slot. I'm accustomed to having to spam potions to get it to register. So I spammed. And it continued to not show my ultimate.

Until suddenly, there were 10 standards in front of me. I didn't realize until after that they must have (or many of them) must have been duplicates of mine. They didn't do any damage. I saw no combat text at all, but the lag did worsen. I found out later that this happens with standards in lag situations, and I have seen it since, on all sides. For this and other reasons I chose to not run it in the future.

However standard is not the only DK ultimate I've had trouble with.

Take flight is also extremely problematic in 999+ situations. Often times I have this ultimate slotted but will not use it in lag situations. What happens is you pop your ultimate, the ultimate is drained. When you pop it, your wings appear but your character does not actually leave the ground. The wings are pinned behind your character and you are unable to do anything but float along the floor, unable to use skills. Usually 30 seconds to a minute later, my character would "rubber-band" and appear elsewhere in the keep/outpost/field, able to use skills again for a short period. Sometimes this process would cycle and the wings would reappear and cause my skills to lock up again.

I've seen skills not work at all for my side, and we're slaughtered without being able to do anything. I've also seen the reverse. I'm sure many people have varied stories of the same experience.

It's really a shame because this game has so much potential. I hope the lag issues are sorted soon and we can all just get back to playing.

ZOS_MichaelM · June 2015

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Weberda · June 2015

There's your reply from the folks that own the game. Have a nice lag-filled day.

Ifthir_ESO · June 2015

You posted that message before @ZOS_MichaelM please stop spamming.

kthxbye

Armitas · June 2015

Meteor. It's got what lag craves.

Weberda · June 2015

It's really really bad right now. I can't do anything without a long pause. This is it for me. Sub gets canceled tomorrow morning.

cozmon3c_ESO · June 2015

sorry ifthir but you will probably suffer a 3 day ban from forum lol, i know from experience

Huckdabuck · June 2015

I'm just curious as to who actually clicks on the insightful/agree/awesome button for the forum mods. Seriously do they come behind each other and "upvote" themselves?

Dazin93 · June 2015

In the good old days I would LOL most dev or admin posts as the majority of their statements are a joke.

We are looking into it......
We expect to find a fix in the near future....
We are discussing it internally.....
We understand there is a problem.....
We are actively investigating.........
Yes, we are aware.....

ZOS please.

tordr86b16_ESO · June 2015

The drums of war have reached a fever pitch slide show, calling the warriors of Tamriel to the field of battle. The Daggerfall Covenant, the Ebonheart Pact, and the Aldmeri Dominion will take up arms and fight for control of Cyrodiil, the Imperial City, and the throne of Tamriel.

Featuring three-sided Player vs. Player (PvP) gameplay, The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited Limited supports hundreds of players on screen at once in an open world fight for control of Cyrodiil. Seize, hold, and control the resources of massive strongholds. Utilize massive siege weapons to crumble fortress walls and smash through fortified gates. Conquer the Imperial City, and your alliance's top player people without a life could even be crowned Emperor!

Get ready for the most intense online laggy PvP experience ever created, with The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited Limited.

cote-bmsb16_ESO · June 2015

I'm not even in Cyrodiil, but in some lil random normal dungeon getting lagged out. Launcher doesn't update announcements, getting error 200, and it doesn't let me log in anymore. ;/

Observant · June 2015

ZOS_MichaelM wrote: »

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That's what you get out of this thread? Really?

EskimoBrother · June 2015

Observant wrote: »

ZOS_MichaelM wrote: »

Moderation Note:
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Spamming: Please do not post spam on the official The Elder Scrolls Online forums. Below are a few examples of what we define as spamming:
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That's what you get out of this thread? Really?

yep that's all they'll ever say. leaves us no options but to cancel our subs until they decide to take action instead of neglecting and giving us the finger when it comes to fixing the games problems.

All_Bizniz · June 2015

EskimoBrother wrote: »

Observant wrote: »

ZOS_MichaelM wrote: »

Moderation Note:
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Spamming: Please do not post spam on the official The Elder Scrolls Online forums. Below are a few examples of what we define as spamming:
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That's what you get out of this thread? Really?

yep that's all they'll ever say. leaves us no options but to cancel our subs until they decide to take action instead of neglecting and giving us the finger when it comes to fixing the games problems.

You still sub? I stopped giving these p.o.s's money when I realized that they don't give a **** about PVP. Save your 15 a month... go to a pub and spend it. (tip your bartender also)

Emptysev3n · June 2015

They have said multiple times that after the launch of the console version, they are going to focus their attention on improvements to the PC version, with focus on PvP. This topic is beating a dead horse. The creators of a video game clearly want more people to play and they want their community to be happy. So when they respond once to what they are going to do and when, that should be the only time they need to say. The should not need to post the same response in 12 threads. Ranting is not going to make them do anything any quicker.

Trayyacakes · June 2015

Emptysev3n wrote: »

They have said multiple times that after the launch of the console version, they are going to focus their attention on improvements to the PC version, with focus on PvP. This topic is beating a dead horse. The creators of a video game clearly want more people to play and they want their community to be happy. So when they respond once to what they are going to do and when, that should be the only time they need to say. The should not need to post the same response in 12 threads. Ranting is not going to make them do anything any quicker.

Lag in Cyrodiil has been an issue for most of the games existence. We are supposed to be happy that after nearly a year its still not fixed, and no one is working on it till after console release? The PvP community does not have to shut up and take it and does not have to be happy that it will be looked at later. We post on this forum because we still care about the game. Ranting is one of the last coping mechanisms we have left on the issue, so we will rant on. If the ranting stops before the issue is fixed, it will mean every PvPer who gives a crap about lag or game balance is gone.

Morvul · June 2015

well, considering this is a serious problem since... uh... three quarters of the games life-time...
a few more respones from ZoS would probably be a good idea...

Lesspa · June 2015

Wanna avoid lag? Avoid the monkeyspam blob guilds. You know who they are. You feel their presence when they enter your keep.

Unfortunately for OP, she is in one of those guilds.......... GG

Emptysev3n · June 2015

Whatever makes you kids happy, but they clearly are aware of the situation if they responded multiple times. They have stated they are investigating why there is lag, because they are not sure. Read what they say. I am sure they have division for each platform like any other gaming company, but they are trying to buy time by stating they are waiting till after console release. If they had the solution they would fix it. It is as simple as that. So lets hope it is during the next patch. If not, well, that's the fact of the matter. Complaining doesn't help. I am all for this getting fixed ASAP, don't get me wrong. But count the threads on this topic, yikes.