What is YOUR definition of endgame within ESO?

NewBlacksmurf · May 2015

Craglorn and Cyrodil ....that's it

-definitely not Cadwell stuff

Sausage · May 2015

lordrichter wrote: »

Sausage wrote: »

Ive seen already lack of motivation from players, so Champion System isnt offering enough.

I personally think they need to add some alternative endgame system to increase motivation along Champion System, something like pure cosmetic, gold sink could do it.

The problem with this statement is that the Champion System, despite how it is being used, is not really very well designed as something to grind against to achieve a goal. No one should feel that they need to be grinding CP, but they are because there is nothing else to grind against, and that blame falls entirely on ZOS and really horrible game design.

What ZOS did was create an end-game achievement system without an end-game to actually play. With no end-game to actually play, of course they are playing Champion System.

Having finally read the end-game article that was linked here, I fully agree with it, and that article only serves to further highlight what is wrong with ESO once the main quest ends. ZOS created a system where max level players are dependent upon them delivering something to do, which they don't do, and now there is nothing to do, so players just grind CP.

Show me one MMO what is still alive where players just idle and do nothing? People are already pissed off here, Champion System does not offer enough, if you are going to bring up UO, I surely remember people grinding skills like mad. If some people feel like Champion System is a grind, start to sell the damn potions to them. Catch-up potions (usable only to reach the top CP) is way better than race (usable to everyone) potions. Well, dont need to sell potions via shop actually, they can be found in the game too.

F7sus4 · May 2015

newtinmpls wrote:

What is YOUR definition of endgame within ESO?

Trials' Leaderboard challenges.

Elsonso · May 2015

Sausage wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Sausage wrote: »

Ive seen already lack of motivation from players, so Champion System isnt offering enough.

I personally think they need to add some alternative endgame system to increase motivation along Champion System, something like pure cosmetic, gold sink could do it.

The problem with this statement is that the Champion System, despite how it is being used, is not really very well designed as something to grind against to achieve a goal. No one should feel that they need to be grinding CP, but they are because there is nothing else to grind against, and that blame falls entirely on ZOS and really horrible game design.

What ZOS did was create an end-game achievement system without an end-game to actually play. With no end-game to actually play, of course they are playing Champion System.

Having finally read the end-game article that was linked here, I fully agree with it, and that article only serves to further highlight what is wrong with ESO once the main quest ends. ZOS created a system where max level players are dependent upon them delivering something to do, which they don't do, and now there is nothing to do, so players just grind CP.

Show me one MMO what is still alive where players just idle and do nothing? People are already pissed off here, Champion System does not offer enough, if you are going to bring up UO, I surely remember people grinding skills like mad. If some people feel like Champion System is a grind, start to sell the damn potions to them. Catch-up potions (usable only to reach the top CP) is way better than race (usable to everyone) potions. Well, dont need to sell potions via shop actually, they can be found in the game too.

I can't show you an MMO where players just idle and do nothing. That is not the point.

The Champion System was intended to be a progression system that kicked in after Level 50 that built up in the background while the player was off doing other things. That is not what it is now, mostly because there aren't enough things for the players to be off doing. Instead of having interesting end-game content that people want to do, people are grinding the same content every day for the sole purpose of generating CP.

Let me ask this.. if they took away the Champion System today and replaced it with nothing, would there be no point in playing anymore? If the answer to that is Yes, then the problem is that there is no end-game content that is worth the time to do. If the only reason that people are playing is to grind CP, that is evidence of a horrible wasteland of a game design.

I don't play to grind CP. I have >21< Champion Points after 1300 hours of play since March 2014. The reason that my main is only VR 4 is because ESO has nothing to do after the main quest that I really want to spend time doing. Consequently, I spend most of my time doing stuff that does not generate CP. The best part of the game, the only part of the structured part of the game worth playing, is what happens before Level 50.

If they took away Champion System today, I would not even notice.

Sausage · May 2015

lordrichter wrote: »

Sausage wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Sausage wrote: »

Ive seen already lack of motivation from players, so Champion System isnt offering enough.

I personally think they need to add some alternative endgame system to increase motivation along Champion System, something like pure cosmetic, gold sink could do it.

The problem with this statement is that the Champion System, despite how it is being used, is not really very well designed as something to grind against to achieve a goal. No one should feel that they need to be grinding CP, but they are because there is nothing else to grind against, and that blame falls entirely on ZOS and really horrible game design.

What ZOS did was create an end-game achievement system without an end-game to actually play. With no end-game to actually play, of course they are playing Champion System.

Having finally read the end-game article that was linked here, I fully agree with it, and that article only serves to further highlight what is wrong with ESO once the main quest ends. ZOS created a system where max level players are dependent upon them delivering something to do, which they don't do, and now there is nothing to do, so players just grind CP.

Show me one MMO what is still alive where players just idle and do nothing? People are already pissed off here, Champion System does not offer enough, if you are going to bring up UO, I surely remember people grinding skills like mad. If some people feel like Champion System is a grind, start to sell the damn potions to them. Catch-up potions (usable only to reach the top CP) is way better than race (usable to everyone) potions. Well, dont need to sell potions via shop actually, they can be found in the game too.

I can't show you an MMO where players just idle and do nothing. That is not the point.

The Champion System was intended to be a progression system that kicked in after Level 50 that built up in the background while the player was off doing other things. That is not what it is now, mostly because there aren't enough things for the players to be off doing. Instead of having interesting end-game content that people want to do, people are grinding the same content every day for the sole purpose of generating CP.

Let me ask this.. if they took away the Champion System today and replaced it with nothing, would there be no point in playing anymore? If the answer to that is Yes, then the problem is that there is no end-game content that is worth the time to do. If the only reason that people are playing is to grind CP, that is evidence of a horrible wasteland of a game design.

I don't play to grind CP. I have >21< Champion Points after 1300 hours of play since March 2014. The reason that my main is only VR 4 is because ESO has nothing to do after the main quest that I really want to spend time doing. Consequently, I spend most of my time doing stuff that does not generate CP. The best part of the game, the only part of the structured part of the game worth playing, is what happens before Level 50.

If they took away Champion System today, I would not even notice.

I dont get it what you want. They could expand NPC-guilds and add professions to the game like hunters, farmers, barbers, bards whatever (so called sandbox stuff...) but even then when you do those 100+ hour, it becomes boring and you want to do something else and btw, if you like journey why not to make alts, and wait for an expansion but some of us prefer endgame before expansion.

Gandrhulf_Harbard · May 2015

MercyKilling wrote: »

I don't know what "end game" is, but I know what it should be:

http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Mission_Architect

The Foundry in Neverwinter has taken some of the pressure off the Devs because there is new content added literally every singe day. OK some of it is utter rubbish, but some of it is simply jaw-droppingly awesome - and the player who regularly play Foundry Missions soon get to know who the good and great authors are.

The other bonus for the Devs is that it gives players an insight in to how long it takes to make content. I had three adventures published (one was Feature Of The Week)) taken together all three played at approx 1hr 20 mins (if you ignore the side story elements) to 1hr 50mins (if you explore the side-story elements). In amongst that there is a room (in this case a library) in which the player interacts with an NPC (and can explore a few side-story elements) - there is no combat in this room, no puzzles, just approx 3 mins of NPC / Player dialogue interactions. That room took me over 50 hrs to put together. On top of the design of the levels there was also dozens and dozens of hours of play-testing (by myself and other Foundry authors) and maybe 20 hours of "fixes" (minor bugs and dialogues typos etc).

A Foundry type add-on for ESO would, IMO, be a welcome addition.

All The Best

andrantos · May 2015

I would like to think that once VR are removed, the end-game would be the following....

1) For the soloist and casual gameplay, play in any Caldwell Silver/Gold zone in any order. With VR, these zones are still a linear experience. The classic ES experience would return when players feel like they can set out on their own in any direction and find something rewarding for them.

2) Craglorn, Trials, Vet Dungeons, etc... for highly organized, group experiences for gear and all sorts of rarer rewards

3) Cyrodiil for and continued evolution of the pvp experience for those wanting something more competitive

All three should be effective means of acquiring experience for Champion Points. Let players play his/her way or let them dabble as they wish.

Moonshadow66 · May 2015

As a single player... well, my game ended in Reaper's March/Gold. These characters are VR14, but the armor is crafted and the jewelry is green standard VR10 stuff. That's my endgame. Exciting.
Not.

PKMN12 · May 2015

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

MercyKilling wrote: »

I don't know what "end game" is, but I know what it should be:

http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Mission_Architect

The Foundry in Neverwinter has taken some of the pressure off the Devs because there is new content added literally every singe day. OK some of it is utter rubbish, but some of it is simply jaw-droppingly awesome - and the player who regularly play Foundry Missions soon get to know who the good and great authors are.

The other bonus for the Devs is that it gives players an insight in to how long it takes to make content. I had three adventures published (one was Feature Of The Week)) taken together all three played at approx 1hr 20 mins (if you ignore the side story elements) to 1hr 50mins (if you explore the side-story elements). In amongst that there is a room (in this case a library) in which the player interacts with an NPC (and can explore a few side-story elements) - there is no combat in this room, no puzzles, just approx 3 mins of NPC / Player dialogue interactions. That room took me over 50 hrs to put together. On top of the design of the levels there was also dozens and dozens of hours of play-testing (by myself and other Foundry authors) and maybe 20 hours of "fixes" (minor bugs and dialogues typos etc).

A Foundry type add-on for ESO would, IMO, be a welcome addition.

All The Best

no, it is a terrible addition that only proves that the devs are not exactly good at their job. 90% of the foundry is grinding missions and exploits.

yeah, there are a couple good things in the foundry, but not many and those are FAR behind not the reason people use the foudnry a lot.

Gandrhulf_Harbard · May 2015

PKMN12 wrote: »

no, it is a terrible addition that only proves that the devs are not exactly good at their job. 90% of the foundry is grinding missions and exploits.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one, because I can think of dozens of Authors with hundreds of adventures published that all have 4+ Star ratings and are not grind-fests or exploits.

Perhaps if you only look for grind-fests and exploits that is all you will find.

The Foundry in Neverwinter is, in my opinion, the very best feature of ANY MMO I have ever played. It puts the ability to create content in to the hands of players, and they are then able to create the kind of content they want - and the very best of the Neverwinter Foundry stuff is way, way better than 95% of the Dev created content - and while the Dev created content is nothing world changing it is by and large typical of most MMORPGs.

All The Best

Ojustaboo · May 2015

My problem with most if not all recent mmos, isn't so much about the lack of endgame content, it's how quickly we find ourselves at this point.

I would have been happy if it had taken 2 years for me to get there, but it's so easy to level there is almost zero challenge involved.

I've heard all the arguments about why this is so, how many players nowadays don't want challenging content, but I then look at other non mmo games and single player games and very often find them 1000 times harder in comparison.

I'm currently playing the witcher on my ps4, have a playtime of just over 30 hrs, equivalent to playing say TESO for 4 hrs every evening for 7 days. I've just reached level 5 in the Witcher, and have found quite a few very challenging quests and fights that to be honest, makes most of TESO leveling feel like it was made for 5 year olds.

And so far, all the witcher quests have had a LOT of thought put into them, even one where I had to get a frying pan back for someone, they made it so much more.

I actually feel sad, I looked forward to an online ES game since before TESO was anounced. I expected to be playing it as my main mmo for years. The only thing I find enjoyable at the moment is low level PvP with my guild, but I don't want to do that everyday, I find myself logging in less and less.

Then I look at the witcher, sure they are completely different games, but it sort of looks like if Zenimax had put half the effort into TESO that was put into the witcher, it really really could have been the second most popular mmo for years, instead we seem to have a hash of different things, knee jerk reactions, far too many problems a year later (especially with PvP), content that requires zero skill or concentration to get through, crafting that apart from research, takes one night to level half of it to max, and is it any wonder so many people are crying out for more end game content.