The new fear, Gear progression.

Earelith · May 2015

DDuke wrote: »

So in other words... you're free AP in PvP, and someone I shouldn't group with in PvE?

I think you made it quite clear you aren't a competitive player, but thank you for your take on this.

On the contrary, I think I am a good player and also competitive. I just don't think that I have to grind new gear every 3-5 month patch to be able to stay competitive.

Because I don't need to take advantage of the gear gap among players, that the "gear - progression MMOs" have, in order to win someone or be accepted in a group. I just need to use my gaming and social skills.

Isn't a game with no gear gaps more competitive?

DDuke · May 2015

Earelith wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

So in other words... you're free AP in PvP, and someone I shouldn't group with in PvE?

I think you made it quite clear you aren't a competitive player, but thank you for your take on this.

On the contrary, I think I am a good player and also competitive. I just don't think that I have to grind new gear every 3-5 month patch to be able to stay competitive.

The reason for my assumption is this what you wrote:

You play it with the wow mentality..no one told you to go and grind for CP..endgame of ESO is a long term goal/advancement that you earn while playing the game in a way that is fun...you do dungeons, you play alts, pvp and while doing all these, piece by piece you build a long term advancement..

If you haven't got atleast over 250 CPs by now, I doubt you stand a chance against the top end PvPers. The difference CPs grant you is enormous (in fact, much larger than any gear advantage I've seen in other games), which you probably should know if you're as good player & competitive as you claim.

So yes, no one is telling you to grind for CP, but then again, no one is telling you to grind for gear in other MMOs either. It's a choice you have to make.

Extending further, I could make the claim that gear based progression is much, much better for players who don't want to feel "forced" to do something.

"Gear grind" often means attending one or two raids a week, or going up the PvP arena ladder, so a few of hours at most.

Meanwhile, there is virtually no limits on CPs: the more you grind at max efficiency grind spots, the more powerful you become.

The former tests your (and your group's) skill level, while the latter only tests how much time you can dish out.

Earelith wrote: »

Because I don't need to take advantage of the gear gap among players, that the "gear - progression MMOs" have, in order to win someone or be accepted in a group. I just need to use my gaming and social skills.

Isn't a game with no gear gaps more competitive?

That is an excellent question and something I've thought over a lot.

In a way yes, games without power differences between players are more competitive (everyone stands on equal ground), good examples would be FPS games, MOBAs (at the beginning, as the game progresses you may become more powerful than your opponents) & card games (again, there are some exceptions with certain hard to get cards being stronger than their counterparts).

But it's more complicated than that.

I believe competitive gaming is about achieving an advantage over others, as long as that is achieved by being good at the game, not by cheating or straight out buying it like in P2W games, that allows you to beat them.
Whether this is an OP skill/build, 1000 CPs more or strong gear, it doesn't matter (as long as you play by the rules of the game).

We all start equal, it's up to each individual to make what they can out of it.

That said, there is an exception. There is the concern of new players entering the game.
I'm fully in favour of giving new players catch up mechanics, which allow new players to catch up to veterans, which is what ZOS seems to be aiming for with the seasonal gear (if I'm not mistaken).

dodgehopper_ESO · May 2015

Xjcon wrote: »

If you can just buy the bis gear why even play the game? Having gear progression is what keeps people playing.

Imo the perfect game has a progression from crafted gear clear up to bis which is obtained from playing the harder content.

This is only true if gear does not degrade. If all gear degrades (like SWG had) then crafting becomes very important, perhaps the most important thing. I prefer this system to a system that continually forces me to wear progressingly more stupid looking items that look entirely nonfunctional.
(fixed a typo)

Frawr · May 2015

Some good points both ways n this thread.

We do need progression because we need a reason to log in.

I personally do not find 'more quests' do be progression. In an MMO, I want progression in the form of 'living' in the world. Not following a pre-defined story. This current game is 'play someone's story' not 'play my own'.

I wish for more sandbox elements. I would like to see more elements from precu Star wars Galaxies and Archeage rather than solo player RPGs and gear grinds.

I wish to build a city, operate a shop, defend my city from my enemies, build castles, farm crops, buy and sell wit ha real economy where there is resource quality so as to ensure that 2 pieces of gear are not identical. (I want something other than price in the economy). I wish to do this within the world of Tamriel.

It is a lovely solo player game right now. I think it stretches the idea of 'mmorpg' to label it as such. More like, as Bethesda recently put it, 'Elder scrolls with friends'.

Make an MMO or make an ES game with friends.

Target 1 market instead of attempting to please everyone.

Tors · May 2015

Im suprised at the lack of hate on this thread, it hurts me emotionally to have to agree with someone who even looks like they may disagree with one of my points.

Like someone whos idea of gear progression and whose arguements I totally disagree with points out, the whole conversation is moot when you place a 200-300 CP player who knows where to put their points vs a newly minted VR14.

The newly minted player can wear anything he likes, its not going to help him very much especially considering that the 250 CP player is probably wearing the same gear anyway.

Anyway, more hate, less discussion, this is the interwebs after all

technohic · May 2015

I left an MMO that had the repeated gear grind with the same content and came back here when hearing about the VR levels being removed. I am now back at previous MMO with gear grind (which is being greatly reduced/speed up soon) and wishing they would just keep the VR levels here with a couple extra levels every few months rather than the endless champion points.

I will admit its because I can be pretty casual so call me a casual; that's fine. Bottom line is, I can catch up to gear and levels that stand still for a while, but I will never keep up with full time progression when I take some breaks from playing games in general for several days to do other things. Particularly in summer and especially with bland content that has bugs every where I turn and the Devs seem too busy to bother.

Earelith · May 2015

DDuke wrote: »

I believe competitive gaming is about achieving an advantage over others

I agree..although the advantage over others shouldn't be necessarily ilvl or gear..it could be prestige ranks and titles or vanity costumes (GW2). And these will be more precious, because you can earn them while having the same gear as others.

I understand that you probably have zero interest on vanity items or prestige titles, but this is the most fair way to reward skilled players...because this will always show what they have been achieved, while the system you propose, is just a gear that will be useless in some months..

GW2 system works..Legendaries have same stats as exotic gear and need tons of dedication to acquire them..spvp in GW2 only rewards vanity costumes. Yet the game is successful and full of players. Not to mention almost all sandboxes MMOs that also does not have gear progression..

TL;DR: Not every game need to be a gear progression game to be successful. I am saying this because you said that every MMO worth mentioning is those with gear progression.

Gidorick · May 2015

Frawr wrote: »

Make an MMO or make an ES game with friends.

Target 1 market instead of attempting to please everyone.

put me down for Elder Scrolls with friends!

Vahrokh · May 2015

Xjcon wrote: »

If you can just buy the bis gear why even play the game? Having gear progression is what keeps people playing.

Imo the perfect game has a progression from crafted gear clear up to bis which is obtained from playing the harder content.

Do you live to upgrade your underpants and shoes? Because I certainly live to do more interesting and fun things.

A MMO is not different. Do you play to upgrade your pants and shoes? Because I certainly don't.
It's a sad WoWification that tainted so many games.

WoW created a sad mechanism that transforms players into muppets who live to chase the carrot on the stick.

I'd rather play a game that is like a good book or movie: entertraining and compelling because of its content, adventures, plot, not because of chasing the pants and shoes of level + 1.

dodgehopper_ESO · May 2015

Vahrokh wrote: »

Xjcon wrote: »

If you can just buy the bis gear why even play the game? Having gear progression is what keeps people playing.

Imo the perfect game has a progression from crafted gear clear up to bis which is obtained from playing the harder content.

Do you live to upgrade your underpants and shoes? Because I certainly live to do more interesting and fun things.

A MMO is not different. Do you play to upgrade your pants and shoes? Because I certainly don't.
It's a sad WoWification that tainted so many games.

WoW created a sad mechanism that transforms players into muppets who live to chase the carrot on the stick.

I'd rather play a game that is like a good book or movie: entertraining and compelling because of its content, adventures, plot, not because of chasing the pants and shoes of level + 1.

This is so right, and I really think a number of MMO gamers are starting to realize it. The question is whether the game designers do. I hope ZoS does. It seemed like they did when the game released, and I realize the console release is part of the delay. I think a great number of are hopeful in this regard. Make more good stories, more entertaining gameplay options, and we'll be here. Make it a grind meant for dodging red circles and aggroing bosses so we can get some new ugly piece of gear, and the game will grow old and stale like all the others. Just one player's point of view, but I see it being matched by others.

WebBull · May 2015

Here is your 2nd version of gear progression (first being nerf to magicka builds)

@Curragraigue: Durok's Bane set is a PvP vendor heavy set so I assume it’s intended to be used in PvP. Why does it have the sturdy trait, which is completely useless for PvP?
In our next major content update, we’ll be awarding players with random traits on these item sets so they can get exactly what they want. Additionally, we’ll be revising item traits in the future to add more exciting bonuses, such as Ultimate generation.

Varicite · May 2015

docstrawb wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

Seasonal gear was already announced, but there has been no official word of lockouts or level cap increases.

That all naturally comes with the territory.

That is nothing but an assumption on your part.

Lord Xanhorn · May 2015

Geesh all this jib jabbing and none of the I hate the gear grind people offer a suggestion of an alternative. Right now there is nothing. Once you hit V14 there are very few incentives for DSA, Vet dungeons, trials, Craglorn, or logging on in general. If you enjoy PVP, that's pretty much all you get to look forward to.

There is no alternative for a compelling end game with the lack of the gear grind and no one is giving suggestions.

Its all fun and dandy to be a negative nancy about end game progression systems but to not have viable alternatives makes you look foolish. Cause honestly, the lack of endgame incentives is make a lot of people quit this game, me included.

Varicite · May 2015

Lord Xanhorn wrote: »

Geesh all this jib jabbing and none of the I hate the gear grind people offer a suggestion of an alternative. Right now there is nothing. Once you hit V14 there are very few incentives for DSA, Vet dungeons, trials, Craglorn, or logging on in general. If you enjoy PVP, that's pretty much all you get to look forward to.

There is no alternative for a compelling end game with the lack of the gear grind and no one is giving suggestions.

Its all fun and dandy to be a negative nancy about end game progression systems but to not have viable alternatives makes you look foolish. Cause honestly, the lack of endgame incentives is make a lot of people quit this game, me included.

But.. but... LEADERBOARDS!

Drelkag · May 2015

Lord Xanhorn wrote: »

Geesh all this jib jabbing and none of the I hate the gear grind people offer a suggestion of an alternative. Right now there is nothing. Once you hit V14 there are very few incentives for DSA, Vet dungeons, trials, Craglorn, or logging on in general. If you enjoy PVP, that's pretty much all you get to look forward to.

There is no alternative for a compelling end game with the lack of the gear grind and no one is giving suggestions.

Must have read over my post.

The game will most likely be going the route of GW2 - making money off the devoted people from $25 mounts and such. If they pump out new DLC for $20 or so every 3 months that'd keep the game afloat and get people to play more. They can always add new traits, set bonuses, etc to keep it varied.

Like GW2, that has weapons that take many weeks of gathering mats to complete (cosmetic weapons), I can see Zenimax putting new motifs in the game that aren't available just by stealing from shelves, but earned through repeating dailies/some other task that takes work as sort of a sticky factor in between DLC.

And judging by how Zenimax is selling the console verison, that's how they're going to build the game going forward. As an ever-growing TES game that keeps getting DLC, not a gear grinding MMO like WoW/XIV.

Xjcon · May 2015

Vahrokh wrote: »

Xjcon wrote: »

If you can just buy the bis gear why even play the game? Having gear progression is what keeps people playing.

Imo the perfect game has a progression from crafted gear clear up to bis which is obtained from playing the harder content.

Do you live to upgrade your underpants and shoes? Because I certainly live to do more interesting and fun things.

A MMO is not different. Do you play to upgrade your pants and shoes? Because I certainly don't.
It's a sad WoWification that tainted so many games.

WoW created a sad mechanism that transforms players into muppets who live to chase the carrot on the stick.

I'd rather play a game that is like a good book or movie: entertraining and compelling because of its content, adventures, plot, not because of chasing the pants and shoes of level + 1.

What's the point of playing if not to progress? Is it just a social outlet? There are many other games before WoW that were about hunting for items, as a matter of fact I remember playing Final Fantasy or Dragon warrior trying to get those better items. As for a game that is like a book....I'm sorry but I play online to compete with other players, if I want story time I will play a single player game.

Xjcon · May 2015

docstrawb wrote: »

Xjcon wrote: »

If you can just buy the bis gear why even play the game? Having gear progression is what keeps people playing.

Imo the perfect game has a progression from crafted gear clear up to bis which is obtained from playing the harder content.

That isn't so. This game from the start has been more of a Diablo 2 style system, build freedom and set farming to enhance builds, or base builds around. It is a different, but to most, more desirable system that is new to an MMO. If gear progression becomes the new system, then guess what? We all might as well play WOW or FF14, the list goes on. The droves of cookie cutters. The ones that all fail, aside from wow. Why change this to match them? They already exist, all over the place.

This game has a unique playstyle unlike some of those other mmo's. And saying it's like Diablo 2 is a bit off, in Diablo 2 you had to farm a single boss hundreds of times to get decent gear, and it didn't matter if it was solo or in a group.

Before 1.6 you had to farm trials for the better gear, now you farm AvA points or chests in Cyrodiil and exploit trait bugs.

Honestly it won't matter I fear this game is going to steadily focus on Crown store skins or other micro transactions rather then actual fun filled content to keep people playing for long periods of time.

timidobserver · May 2015

Earelith wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

I believe competitive gaming is about achieving an advantage over others

I agree..although the advantage over others shouldn't be necessarily ilvl or gear..it could be prestige ranks and titles or vanity costumes (GW2). And these will be more precious, because you can earn them while having the same gear as others.

I understand that you probably have zero interest on vanity items or prestige titles, but this is the most fair way to reward skilled players...because this will always show what they have been achieved, while the system you propose, is just a gear that will be useless in some months..

GW2 system works..Legendaries have same stats as exotic gear and need tons of dedication to acquire them..spvp in GW2 only rewards vanity costumes. Yet the game is successful and full of players. Not to mention almost all sandboxes MMOs that also does not have gear progression..

TL;DR: Not every game need to be a gear progression game to be successful. I am saying this because you said that every MMO worth mentioning is those with gear progression.

I came to ESO from GW2 specifically because I could not tolerate the vanity item/cosmetic gear reward system they have going on(also because season 1 of the living story was horrible.) IMO, if you want to spend a year or more farming a cosmetic item there is already a game for you(GW2), but don't ask for ESO to be turned into that. If ESO players wanted that they would be playing GW2. I like that ESO has gear that actually does more than look different.

Drelkag · May 2015

timidobserver wrote: »

I came to ESO from GW2 specifically because I could not tolerate the vanity item/cosmetic gear reward system they have going on(also because season 1 of the living story was horrible.) IMO, if you want to spend a year or more farming a cosmetic item there is already a game for you(GW2), but don't ask for ESO to be turned into that. If ESO players wanted that they would be playing GW2. I like that ESO has gear that actually does more than look different.

ESO is in between WoW's approach and GW2's approach, but mostly leaning towards the absence of gear grind and more towards GW2's cosmetics. If you don't want that approach I feel you're playing the wrong game.

timidobserver · May 2015

Drelkag wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

I came to ESO from GW2 specifically because I could not tolerate the vanity item/cosmetic gear reward system they have going on(also because season 1 of the living story was horrible.) IMO, if you want to spend a year or more farming a cosmetic item there is already a game for you(GW2), but don't ask for ESO to be turned into that. If ESO players wanted that they would be playing GW2. I like that ESO has gear that actually does more than look different.

ESO is in between WoW's approach and GW2's approach, but mostly leaning towards the absence of gear grind and more towards GW2's cosmetics. If you don't want that approach I feel you're playing the wrong game.

I take it you are trying to troll or maybe you are just new to ESO if you think the game's current gear progression is cosmetic at all.

PKMN12 · May 2015

even GW2, a game that was COMPLETELY AGAINST any kind of advancement like the gear progression....added gear progression eventually. so yeah kind of a must in an MMO.

and as said before. CP already made it a moot point.

Drelkag · May 2015

timidobserver wrote: »

Drelkag wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

I came to ESO from GW2 specifically because I could not tolerate the vanity item/cosmetic gear reward system they have going on(also because season 1 of the living story was horrible.) IMO, if you want to spend a year or more farming a cosmetic item there is already a game for you(GW2), but don't ask for ESO to be turned into that. If ESO players wanted that they would be playing GW2. I like that ESO has gear that actually does more than look different.

ESO is in between WoW's approach and GW2's approach, but mostly leaning towards the absence of gear grind and more towards GW2's cosmetics. If you don't want that approach I feel you're playing the wrong game.

I take it you are trying to troll or maybe you are just new to ESO if you think the game's current gear progression is cosmetic at all.

Nice fail at reading my post.

Robotmafia · May 2015

Teiji wrote: »

Why not only discuss the mechanics of other games without mentioning the names of other games?

Because Blizzard marketing team says so.

yessss blizzard told us to mention them and what we didn't like about wow!! u nailed it bro...

docstrawb · May 2015

Varicite wrote: »

docstrawb wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

Seasonal gear was already announced, but there has been no official word of lockouts or level cap increases.

That all naturally comes with the territory.

That is nothing but an assumption on your part.

Technically, it maybe be. But it is also a common pattern. Like it or not, history repeats itself. Let's say ESO just straight up goes gear progression. They create a bunch of very powerful sets that only drop in a new 20 man raid. People who have access to a large, consistent group run it to death, and get them within the week. They are done with the new content. Back to the forum to gripe about new content. Zeni will eventually need to put a limiter,, to artificially extend the contents lifespan. Now, lets talk about the more casual players. They won't even be able to, in most cases, form a 20 man group. They will begin to gripe. "We can't even see the content! Not to mention these guys who have the sets that we can't touch now. They are harassing us in pvp." The natural solution for that is Raidfinder, and probably eventually a PVP/PVE gear seperation that ensures "balance" and renders the set, and all other sets outside of PVP, useless in PVP. All things that will hinder the game, make it less original than ever. All could simply be avoided by staying away from gear progression.

Varicite · May 2015

docstrawb wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

docstrawb wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

Seasonal gear was already announced, but there has been no official word of lockouts or level cap increases.

That all naturally comes with the territory.

That is nothing but an assumption on your part.

Technically, it maybe be. But it is also a common pattern. Like it or not, history repeats itself. Let's say ESO just straight up goes gear progression. They create a bunch of very powerful sets that only drop in a new 20 man raid. People who have access to a large, consistent group run it to death, and get them within the week. They are done with the new content. Back to the forum to gripe about new content. Zeni will eventually need to put a limiter,, to artificially extend the contents lifespan. Now, lets talk about the more casual players. They won't even be able to, in most cases, form a 20 man group. They will begin to gripe. "We can't even see the content! Not to mention these guys who have the sets that we can't touch now. They are harassing us in pvp." The natural solution for that is Raidfinder, and a PVP/PVE gear seperation that ensures "balance" and renders the set, and all other sets outside of PVP, useless in PVP. All things that will hinder the game, make it less original than ever. All could simply be avoided by staying away from gear progression. That is the beauty of the current system.

Or they could not do that.

It's anybody's guess at this point if they are still even planning to use their Season Gear model, and if they do, it's still anybody's guess what activities this gear will be obtainable from.

It could be available from Trials / PvP, as some sets are now. It could be from bleeding edge content, as you say, but even that won't much matter as the one thing they have mentioned about Season Gear is that as Seasons progress, the older Seasons' Gear will become more easily obtainable, completely negating your concerns about casuals not being able to get gear.

20 man groups, Raidfinder, etc. are all things that do not and have not existed in ESO for the entirety of its lifespan. The "raids" (Trials) that do exist in ESO are not exactly hard to find a group for; I'm not sure why you assume that the devs would not only raise the group sizes, but also assume that these groups would become harder to join / form than they are currently.

You are basically banking on nothing but conjecture and getting upset over things that you are pretty much just making up w/out a shred of actual information. <.<

docstrawb · May 2015

Varicite wrote: »

It's anybody's guess at this point if they are still even planning to use their Season Gear model, and if they do, it's still anybody's guess what activities this gear will be obtainable from.

It could be available from Trials / PvP, as some sets are now. It could be from bleeding edge content, as you say, but even that won't much matter as the one thing they have mentioned about Season Gear is that as Seasons progress, the older Seasons' Gear will become more easily obtainable, completely negating your concerns about casuals not being able to get gear.

20 man groups, Raidfinder, etc. are all things that do not and have not existed in ESO for the entirety of its lifespan. The "raids" (Trials) that do exist in ESO are not exactly hard to find a group for; I'm not sure why you assume that the devs would not only raise the group sizes, but also assume that these groups would become harder to join / form than they are currently.

You are basically banking on nothing but conjecture and getting upset over things that you are pretty much just making up w/out a shred of actual information. <.<

That is the point of this thread. To warn and hopefully avoid the possibility that they will do what I mentioned. One particular poster in this thread is pushing for exactly that. It is something that common MMO players have been conditioned to expect. If they add gear progression, they have to add the following, a fitting challenge to attain it, to offset the difficulty of obtaining the older sets. I am not "banking on nothing", because I have played various MMOs for a very long time. In order to offset that difficulty, that means maybe simply making them PVP sets and bumping up the cost or rarity. But it likely won't be bound to PVP. That means they will have to make the PVE content that drops them less accessible, else it won't be harder to obtain. That almost always, in MMO history, means larger groups. That is where the player separation comes in, and on and on. A flawed system always ends up with the same end result.

docstrawb · May 2015

Varicite wrote: »

20 man groups, Raidfinder, etc. are all things that do not and have not existed in ESO for the entirety of its lifespan. The "raids" (Trials) that do exist in ESO are not exactly hard to find a group for; I'm not sure why you assume that the devs would not only raise the group sizes, but also assume that these groups would become harder to join / form than they are currently.

As far as this goes, the latter does not exist because the former does not exist. But unless ZOS comes up with an incredible breakthrough on how to offer a proper challenge to seperate the gears' obtainability and still avoid that giant player seperation, The former will lead to the latter, without a doubt.

reften · May 2015

Just another fancy way to increase the level cap. As long as leveling a piece is the equivalent to leveling 1 VR level, i'm fine. It's when the XP needed to max out the piece takes dozens of hours of hardcore grinding that things will suck.

docstrawb · May 2015

timidobserver wrote: »

I came to ESO from GW2 specifically because I could not tolerate the vanity item/cosmetic gear reward system they have going on(also because season 1 of the living story was horrible.) IMO, if you want to spend a year or more farming a cosmetic item there is already a game for you(GW2), but don't ask for ESO to be turned into that. If ESO players wanted that they would be playing GW2. I like that ESO has gear that actually does more than look different.

This is what I have been saying, only on the other front. I don't understand why someone would want to come to a game, realize they do not like it, and not go back to the game they like. Why would you want to turn one of the few unique MMOs into the same old cookie cutter? You could simply go pick from the vast majority of them, and leave this game to those who like how it works....

Varicite · May 2015

docstrawb wrote: »

That is the point of this thread. To warn and hopefully avoid the possibility that they will do what I mentioned. One particular poster in this thread is pushing for exactly that. It is something that common MMO players have been conditioned to expect.

Common MMO players have also been conditioned to expect true raids, but they do not exist in ESO. They have also been conditioned to expect combat logs, buff tracking, and global Auction Houses. Those also do not naturally exist in ESO.

docstrawb wrote: »

If they add gear progression, they have to add the following, a fitting challenge to attain it, to offset the difficulty of obtaining the older sets. I am not "banking on nothing", because I have played various MMOs for a very long time.

Again, there are many things that exist in various MMOs that do not in ESO, and the devs have stated in an official capacity on more than one occasion that they would like to do things differently than most other MMOs. That makes much of our experience in games like WoW a moot point in many regards.

docstrawb wrote: »

In order to offset that difficulty, that means maybe simply making them PVP sets and bumping up the cost or rarity. But it likely won't be bound to PVP.

Why not? What makes you believe this? There certainly hasn't been anything officially stated that alludes to this conclusion; in fact, the existence of several high-end sets that were once PvE-exclusive now obtainable from PvP actually speaks to the contrary of this opinion.

docstrawb wrote: »

That means they will have to make the PVE content that drops them less accessible, else it won't be harder to obtain. That almost always, in MMO history, means larger groups. That is where the player separation comes in, and on and on. A flawed system always ends up with the same end result.

The only flawed thing that I see here is the opinion that these things are a necessity, as they are based on experience that doesn't really pertain to the game that we are currently playing.

I understand the point of the thread is to set up a hypothetical falling sky scenario, but I don't believe that's really warranted at this juncture as there isn't any concrete evidence to go on yet. At this point, I read it as nothing but plain sensationalism w/out a single fact to back it up, pure and simple.

If you wanted players' opinions on the matter, there's mine.