What is YOUR definition of endgame within ESO?

newtinmpls · May 2015

I hear so much about "getting to endgame" or "needing more endgame content" that it makes me curious. I'm new to MMORPGing (this is my first). I played Morrowind, hated Oblivion and never really got into Skyrim (watched friends play, but never did myself) so to some extent I identify 'endgame' as exploring the game after having finished whatever the main quest is.

It looks like originally ESO was put together with the idea that you start questing (PvE) and then end up in Cyrodiil (PvP). Which doesn't seem to make sense since by and large the PvE'ers have no real desire to PvP in Cyrodiil - maybe some of the PvE there, but that's it. Conversely the PvP focused players really don't seem to appreciate the early quest/leveling material.

So when you play - are you trying to "get to the endgame" and if so - what does it mean to you? What are you hoping to be able to do? To never have to do again?

Heromofo · May 2015

Well normally the word end game in mmos refers to the highest raid that gives the best end game gear till the next expansion.

But for eso i would consider the end game anything you do after max level due to the way their system works.

KerinKor · May 2015

An 'end-game' in an MMO is very clearly defined, by convention and by reality, it's the content you play when your character reaches the end of the current leveling experience, which in ESO means VR14.

So, PVE-wise it's whatever the last dungeon/raid tier is, in PVP it's the highest level, which is whatever it is in ESO (I don't PVP so have no idea).

End-game content is stuff you do over and over and over again because there's nothing else to do, you grind gear until the next expansion when the level cap rises .. at which point you step on the leveling treadmill again until you reach the new level-cap than back on the updated end-game treadmill.

Jeckll · May 2015

The current end game of ESO is grinding champoin points to complete already way too easy trials even faster and to be ready to bring down the next possible content Zenimax is going to present to us also by using raw DPS instead of having to care about the actual boss mechanic.

Elsonso · May 2015

newtinmpls wrote: »

It looks like originally ESO was put together with the idea that you start questing (PvE) and then end up in Cyrodiil (PvP). Which doesn't seem to make sense since by and large the PvE'ers have no real desire to PvP in Cyrodiil - maybe some of the PvE there, but that's it. Conversely the PvP focused players really don't seem to appreciate the early quest/leveling material.

I do not think this is what they had in mind when they made the game. The PVE and PVP are largely separate and parallel parts of the game. They are not equivalent, but I guess one could, in theory, spend the entire game doing one and not the other. Starting at Level 10 for the PVP side, of course.

newtinmpls · May 2015

Wow... this is really horrifying and depressing.

I absolutely hate the idea of any sort of 'arena' or anything similar. PvP is ... so overwhelmed by upper level characters and highly experienced players that it's just a question of either follow along in a huge mob (not appealing) or try to explore - till I get killed.

I suppose this is when I need to look into RP guilds and events.

pitkanencomplexeb17_ESO · May 2015

Feed horse, get hireling mail, log out

Drakoleon · May 2015

Endgame? I would have delete the game if there wasn't the option to build a new char and start all over again After 4 VR14s its the only thing that keeps me in game

Craglorn should be solo content except the trials .Arena would be nice to have a solo option for testing our builds or playing through when there is no team available

Cyrodiil its a joke! Apart of the lag issues which is terrible especially weekends, there are the "immortals"! Hacks and hackers (12 mates we were trying to kill 1 blue NB for approx 3 min...we gave up and he left) that lead more and more people to quit Cyrodiil or even the game because makes to sense to play like that.Personally i haven't gone back to Cyro since then!

It would be nice thought to have the option to enter Cyrodiil with "white flag" for its pve content only

Dre4dwolfb14_ESO · May 2015

Open World PvP combat and World Bosses/ Guild Content.

The entire point of getting stronger/better items is open world Pvp combat.

Just want to get one of each class decked out and go into cyrodill to punch people . . .

Egonieser · May 2015

PvP, and more PvP. That is my ultimate goal in any MMO with PvP element. Mindless PvP all around as making the enemy squirm is both very satisfying and rewarding. I can look past the bugs and lag. It won't stop me rampaging on.

TequilaFire · May 2015

I am still trying to find it!

Robotmafia · May 2015

another part of end game is character building with gear and playstyle... after reaching max lvl one can increase the power of his toon by improving his playstyle and his gear which is obtained by max lvl content like trials, dsa, and vet dungeons... arguably this thing can also be completed starting at lvl v10ish in most cases..

Earelith · May 2015

http://www.engadget.com/2014/03/14/working-as-intended-endgame-is-the-worst-thing-that-ever-happen/

This is my definition...

Yinmaigao · May 2015

newtinmpls wrote: »

So when you play - are you trying to "get to the endgame" and if so - what does it mean to you? What are you hoping to be able to do? To never have to do again?

Forums are the true end game.

Gandrhulf_Harbard · May 2015

Dre4dwolfb14_ESO wrote: »

Open World PvP combat and World Bosses/ Guild Content.

The entire point of getting stronger/better items is open world Pvp combat.

Just want to get one of each class decked out and go into cyrodill to punch people . . .

Open World PvP doesn't happen in most MMORPGs because a) it doesn't work, and b) most players of MMORPGS are not interested in PvP.

If ESO went to open world PvP I'd uninstall it immediately.

When I want to PvP I go to games where real skill is the only deciding factor; not gear, not FOTM builds, etc, just skill. And that means FPS games - because MMORPGs are the wrong style of game to have balanced PvP.

No MMORPG has so far managed to get PvP and PvE to work side-by-side with the same skill and gear sets; in fact none of them have got even close.

All The Best

ZigoSid · May 2015

Upping my mount skill ...

Danikat · May 2015

Earelith wrote: »

http://www.engadget.com/2014/03/14/working-as-intended-endgame-is-the-worst-thing-that-ever-happen/

This is my definition...

I agree with a lot of that.

It also helps to explain why I still struggle to understand the concept of 'end game'. I've been a gamer for 28 years and played 3 or 4 MMOs (depends on if you count Guild Wars 1 as an MMO) but ESO is the first one I've played that actually uses this 'end game' concept (if it does, there seems to be some debate on that), and I'm not even close to level 50 on any of my characters yet.

I still play MMOs a lot like single-player RPGs where levelling is a tool to let you familiarise yourself with skills and abilities by obtaining them gradually, a quick reference for judging which encounters you can handle or simply something that happens as you're going along. The game doesn't end until you've run out of things to do, regardless of what level you are, so 'end game content' sounds like a bit of an oxymoron to me.

I can't seriously imagine anyone would say they've finished Skyrim, simply because they got to the highest possible level, or expect that they can drop the main storyline and everything else they were doing to focus on some new content simply because they got there. I treat MMOs the same way.

Gidorick · May 2015

You and I are very much in the same boat @newtinmpls. I don't care for the concept of end game. I think it's an epeen mechanic of MMOs. I personally think the game should never end. We need non-combat time filler mechanics and ESO has NONE of those.

MY end game? This forum... check out a selection of my "gameplay"

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/171334/gidoricks-concept-repository

AhPook_Is_Here · May 2015

Riding circles around craglorn picking flowers while complaining on teamspeak with guild members about the lack of content.

Sausage · May 2015

Endgame is something to do while waiting for an expansion or content patch nowadays.

Elsonso · May 2015

Danikat wrote: »

I can't seriously imagine anyone would say they've finished Skyrim, simply because they got to the highest possible level, or expect that they can drop the main storyline and everything else they were doing to focus on some new content simply because they got there. I treat MMOs the same way.

I finished Skyrim. I have no idea what the maximum level was, but I ran out of things to do. Mod quality is really iffy and is largely centered around what I consider to be secondary stuff (armor, weapons, followers, etc) rather than primary stuff (quests, areas, things to do, places to go). Those mod designers that do dare to create primary stuff often create stuff that simply crashes my game. So, yeah, I finished Skyrim.

Lord Xanhorn · May 2015

Another example of people saying they hate endgame but have no alternative for keeping players engaged. Its all fun to say exploration, housing, crafting, and that sort of stuff but what happens when you explored the whole map, built your house, and maxed your crafting? If there's no combat related content with real viable incentivized rewards, then there's nothing to do.

Something also that gets me is that people say they don't want a gear progression but then they are happy with the alternative which is nothing. So why cant they be happy with doing nothing in a system designed around gear progression? Is it because there are other people out there with better gear that makes them envious that they arent on the same power curve? What's the point of being the most powerful person around with all the other people on the same level if all you want to do is run around building a house and picking berries?

Faulgor · May 2015

Earelith wrote: »

http://www.engadget.com/2014/03/14/working-as-intended-endgame-is-the-worst-thing-that-ever-happen/

This is my definition...

Interesting article. Even though I'm one of the people who want something meaningful to do "at endgame", I agree with a lot of it. Further, I even struggle with the term "content" because I've been raised on Ragnarok Online which doesn't even have quests for the most part. It's just throwing you in this vast world and expects you to figure out how to kill things on your own, eventually getting better at it by making optimized builds including rare gear that you have to search or craft for yourself. PvE "ends" with killing what would nowadays be called world bosses (as there are no instances), but those bosses are available to you from level 1. There's nothing stopping you from killing them except your own weakness. There are no level difference penalties for experience or loot or other such nonsense. I've been playing it for most of my youth and I can honestly say I never saw all of it. It entertained me for years, without any "content".

ESO I finished probably some months ago.

Gidorick · May 2015

Earelith wrote: »

http://www.engadget.com/2014/03/14/working-as-intended-endgame-is-the-worst-thing-that-ever-happen/

This is my definition...

That pretty much sums up MY feelings. thanks for the read.

Sylvyr · May 2015

Endgame is posting up on the forums wondering why X,Y,Z is still broke, and other things.

tengri · May 2015

endgame.

Sylvyr · May 2015

endthegame

KraziJoe · May 2015

Haven't really thought about it. I will let you know when I get there.

Saturn · May 2015

What I take away from this is:

You didn't like Oblivion?!?

Seriously though. Endgame is what you want it to be, though traditionally the term refers to max level group content, which in ESO's case would be things such as the 4man Dragonstar Arena or the 12man Trials: Aetherian Archive, Hel Rah Citadel and Sanctum Ophidia.

Samuel_Bantien · May 2015

My end game refers to:

pitkanencomplexeb17_ESO wrote: »

Feed horse, get hireling mail, log out

, except a little bit more - watching (IRL & Online) friends quit the game. Small talk with the few friends that continue to play and attempting to think of something to do within game. Grind my 1 CP a day so I do not fall too far behind (#CaterToTheVeterans, #Destiny, #PaidBetaTest - in the end, YES THEY DO MATTER), I'll likely forget someday and just end up forgetting again - continuous process - leads to leaving permanently. It also consists of looking for another MMORPG due to complete boredom, in which I believe I have found one that I have been a fan of the series already.

My definition of endgame within ESO is: Depressing and Boring.

Elsonso · May 2015

Lord Xanhorn wrote: »

Another example of people saying they hate endgame but have no alternative for keeping players engaged. Its all fun to say exploration, housing, crafting, and that sort of stuff but what happens when you explored the whole map, built your house, and maxed your crafting? If there's no combat related content with real viable incentivized rewards, then there's nothing to do.

Something also that gets me is that people say they don't want a gear progression but then they are happy with the alternative which is nothing. So why cant they be happy with doing nothing in a system designed around gear progression? Is it because there are other people out there with better gear that makes them envious that they arent on the same power curve? What's the point of being the most powerful person around with all the other people on the same level if all you want to do is run around building a house and picking berries?

I doubt that ZOS will be very original or innovative about this, but the answer to end-game (and the challenge) is to come up with repeatable content that does not feel like repeatable content, and remains entertaining and engaging. This can be simulated by making a wide variety of repeatable content that changes each time and evolves over time. In this way, at least people are able to do something different rather than the same set of limited dungeons or the same daily quest. This repeatable content has to be everywhere, in every zone, every city, every nook and cranny, and it has to be engaging enough that it is not humanly possible to do all of it in a day. Some of it can be mundane and easy, others can have more meaning and take longer, but no matter what, they consume time, give reward, and change over time.

Sadly, none of this really works in a game where you start by saving the world. Everything is anticlimactic after that and players expect the rush of being The One. This is where ZOS went wrong creating a single-player TES game as an MMO. It is very Elder Scrolls to save the world, but it is better suited for a limited run single-player title.

Interestingly, thanks to B2P and the idea they have that all DLC areas will be open to everyone, that had a chance (and I am sure they did not take it) to change the game and create deep repeatable content in the new areas. Instead, I am fairly certain that each new DLC zone will take 4 months to create, add a couple new dungeons/trials and a few new quests, and players will gobble it up and spit it out in 2 weeks and spend next 14 weeks waiting for content.

From my perspective, it would really be cool to hear players complaining about ZOS adding new zones because they simply don't have enough time for new zones.