NB's Surprise Attack

Julianos · May 2015

Surprise Attack is morp of Veiled Strike ability. And it scales with stamina and does physical damage but few minutes ago i discovered it can be silence wth ? Isn't that absurd ? How come someone silence a physical move ? All these years i thought silence for spells cos wizards casts magic by SPELLing some magical words.

nothing2591 · May 2015

i think all class abilities can be silenced with sorc/npc negate

AlnilamE · May 2015

It's a class attack, not a weapon attack.

Julianos · May 2015

nothing2591 wrote: »

i think all class abilities can be silenced with sorc/npc negate

Yes because all class abilities are spell till you morph them into stamina abilitiy. Stamina morphs should be immune to silence. Its makes no sense. Total crap

Julianos · May 2015

AlnilamE wrote: »

It's a class attack, not a weapon attack.

So resto staff and destro staff abilities are weapon attack too are they immune to silence ?

AlnilamE · May 2015

Why? They are still class skills. The "spell" just uses a different energy source.

Julianos · May 2015

AlnilamE wrote: »

Why? They are still class skills. The "spell" just uses a different energy source.

Yes they use stamina as resource. And you cant call a stamina abilitiy "spell" if you doing something with your stamina its a physical move. Simple. And its not open to argue like 2+2=4

nastuug · May 2015

Axorn wrote: »

nothing2591 wrote: »

i think all class abilities can be silenced with sorc/npc negate

Yes because all class abilities are spell till you morph them into stamina abilitiy. Stamina morphs should be immune to silence. Its makes no sense. Total crap

I'd allow that. CF still crushes their cute little skull in, so it's all good.

AlnilamE · May 2015

Axorn wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Why? They are still class skills. The "spell" just uses a different energy source.

Yes they use stamina as resource. And you cant call a stamina abilitiy "spell" if you doing something with your stamina its a physical move. Simple. And its not open to argue like 2+2=4

Well, in that case they should just change all class spells back to magicka again.

Julianos · May 2015

AlnilamE wrote: »

Axorn wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Why? They are still class skills. The "spell" just uses a different energy source.

Yes they use stamina as resource. And you cant call a stamina abilitiy "spell" if you doing something with your stamina its a physical move. Simple. And its not open to argue like 2+2=4

Well, in that case they should just change all class spells back to magicka again.

its not a good solution too. I think every ability's damage heal and effectiveness class or weapon should scale with both magicka and stamina evenly. So when someone split their resources to play with mixed class and weapon abilities they wont lose effectivness of their abilities when compered to the pure magicka or stam builds they will lose only their max pools but it wont create huge diffrence for them cos they will be using mixed weapon and class abilities.

idk · May 2015

AlnilamE wrote: »

Axorn wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Why? They are still class skills. The "spell" just uses a different energy source.

Yes they use stamina as resource. And you cant call a stamina abilitiy "spell" if you doing something with your stamina its a physical move. Simple. And its not open to argue like 2+2=4

Well, in that case they should just change all class spells back to magicka again.

That would be rather short sighted as the stamina morphs scale off stamina/weapon damage hence doing more damage for stem builds. Beyond that, it is logical that if the base can be silenced the morph should silence as well regardless of what energy pool it draws from.

cozmon3c_ESO · May 2015

its was an overlooked thing with all the abilities that have stamina morphs now, i will see if i can get it to @jessicafolsom to pass the dev team to hopefully fix before next update because to be honest it really doesnt make sense for it to be silenced.

AlnilamE · May 2015

That would really disadvantage magician builds, though. You'd be forced to pick the stamina morphs if you don't want to be silenced, and there are a lot of NPCs that silence you.

Unless they came up with a spell that negates stamina attacks in the same vein to compensate...

dodgehopper_ESO · May 2015

Axorn wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Why? They are still class skills. The "spell" just uses a different energy source.

Yes they use stamina as resource. And you cant call a stamina abilitiy "spell" if you doing something with your stamina its a physical move. Simple. And its not open to argue like 2+2=4

I don't know, the Thu'um is magic, but it also uses a stamina source (in Skyrim). I wouldn't assume something to not be magic just because it bases off of stamina. Take a look at the Fighters Guild skills, some of which are obviously magical. Circle of Protection, Expert Hunter, & Dawnbreaker for instance are from a clearly stamina based line yet are quite obviously magical.

Julianos · May 2015

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Axorn wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Why? They are still class skills. The "spell" just uses a different energy source.

Yes they use stamina as resource. And you cant call a stamina abilitiy "spell" if you doing something with your stamina its a physical move. Simple. And its not open to argue like 2+2=4

I don't know, the Thu'um is magic, but it also uses a stamina source (in Skyrim). I wouldn't assume something to not be magic just because it bases off of stamina. Take a look at the Fighters Guild skills, some of which are obviously magical. Circle of Protection, Expert Hunter, & Dawnbreaker for instance are from a clearly stamina based line yet are quite obviously magical.

shouts are not spell thats why we call them shouts. Also if you complain about fighter's guild ability visual effects you can start another discussion about that. But surprise attack definitly a movement its a stroke like swinging a bat. Nothing to do with magicka or spell. It should be immune to silence.

UTG_Zilla · June 2015

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Axorn wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Why? They are still class skills. The "spell" just uses a different energy source.

Yes they use stamina as resource. And you cant call a stamina abilitiy "spell" if you doing something with your stamina its a physical move. Simple. And its not open to argue like 2+2=4

I don't know, the Thu'um is magic, but it also uses a stamina source (in Skyrim). I wouldn't assume something to not be magic just because it bases off of stamina. Take a look at the Fighters Guild skills, some of which are obviously magical. Circle of Protection, Expert Hunter, & Dawnbreaker for instance are from a clearly stamina based line yet are quite obviously magical.

You didn't use magicka or stamina to use Shouts in Skyrim, they were on a cd meter and no "resource cost" so no. It is not a "spell". It's in the magic tab because, well because "fire breath" is magical. But that doesn't mean it's a spell. It's a dragon attack, not a mer or human creation. Dragonborns and the grey beards know them but they're 100s of years old prophets like moth priests (kinda) and dragonborn are, well they're self explanatory.

But no, thu'ums and shouts are not magic

AhPook_Is_Here · June 2015

Axorn wrote: »

nothing2591 wrote: »

i think all class abilities can be silenced with sorc/npc negate

Yes because all class abilities are spell till you morph them into stamina abilitiy. Stamina morphs should be immune to silence. Its makes no sense. Total crap

you still teleport with it right? must be some big mojo goin on there, people don't just magically teleport around liftin all day.

UTG_Zilla · June 2015

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

Axorn wrote: »

nothing2591 wrote: »

i think all class abilities can be silenced with sorc/npc negate

Yes because all class abilities are spell till you morph them into stamina abilitiy. Stamina morphs should be immune to silence. Its makes no sense. Total crap

you still teleport with it right? must be some big mojo goin on there, people don't just magically teleport around liftin all day.

Don't be that guy who says "stamina uses no magicka, WHAT ABOUT TELEPORT STRIKE? TELEPORTING IS MAGIC PEOPLE!!!"

Yea no sh*t dude. You don't have to be a dumb troll and remind us

dodgehopper_ESO · June 2015

Axorn wrote: »

shouts are not spell thats why we call them shouts. Also if you complain about fighter's guild ability visual effects you can start another discussion about that. But surprise attack definitly a movement its a stroke like swinging a bat. Nothing to do with magicka or spell. It should be immune to silence.

My point is that some abilities are different kinds of magic. Surprise attack is not 'just a movement', and neither is killers blade, or stamina based firebreathing that is the in the DK line.

UTG_Zilla wrote: »

You didn't use magicka or stamina to use Shouts in Skyrim, they were on a cd meter and no "resource cost" so no. It is not a "spell". It's in the magic tab because, well because "fire breath" is magical. But that doesn't mean it's a spell. It's a dragon attack, not a mer or human creation. Dragonborns and the grey beards know them but they're 100s of years old prophets like moth priests (kinda) and dragonborn are, well they're self explanatory.

But no, thu'ums and shouts are not magic

The College of Winterhold accepted your entry based upon knowledge of the Thu'um and being the Dragonborn, because your very nature was powerful dragon magic. The Thu'um also had a small but appreciable stamina cost because of the exertion it caused, so yes I would say it used Stamina. It was also put on a cooldown but that does not negate the fact that it had a Stamina cost. Play the game again and observe, you will see I am correct.

I think we can clearly say that skillful weapon techniques using stamina are just skills. When you can make a magical dagger appear out of thin air, teleport across the room and stab someone with aforementioned magical dagger, I don't care what the resource is that its pulling from that's magic, definitionally. The stamina resource issue with the Dragonborn, as well as the questline involving Vanus Galerion in Coldharbor make it clear that Stamina is important or at least a slice of magic. We are talking about semantics here, but the whole point is that summoning a gout of fire out of your mouth, magically, is magic. It really doesn't matter what 'pool/resource' you're using.

UTG_Zilla · June 2015

@dodgehopper_ESO

I've played skyrim for years don't tell me to play and learn. Also no we're not talking semantics when you say it's based off of stamina cost when it is in fact not.

dodgehopper_ESO · June 2015

UTG_Zilla wrote: »

@dodgehopper_ESO

I've played skyrim for years don't tell me to play and learn. Also no we're not talking semantics when you say it's based off of stamina cost when it is in fact not.

I'm not being combative here, please don't take what I'm saying in that manner. Just go play Skyrim one minute and look at your Stamina meter when you use a Thu'um. It doesn't take a huge bit, but it does take some. It takes stamina (exertion) to use a Thu'um. Cooldown by the way is not a 'cost' or resource being drawn from unless you want to get metaphysical about Akatosh the god of Time I suppose. We can disagree on something and still be amicable. I'm not telling you to 'Play and Learn' those are your own words. Just check out what I'm telling you or if you are aware of the stamina cost then come up with an explanation that disputes my point.