Damage/Healing output values on PS4/XBox

coolermh · May 2015

Will there be anyway to display damage/heal output numbers on PS4/XBOX?

Heromofo · May 2015

As far from the beta no there does not seem to be but maybe zos can answer this.

Or smurf lol
@NewBlacksmurf

Hexos · May 2015

I wish, but i highly doubt it. ZoS seems to think the game in it's "pure" form shoudl be as immersive as possible so numbers are bad. That's why they let add-ons handle it. Since, PS4 won't support add-ons....

I have actually been playing with ZERO combat related addons these past 2 weeks in order to detox for console. I still miss seeing numbers, but part of me is now glad that I won't be fight against othe rplayers with addons telling them when to cleanse or execute or heal or ultimate.

Xendyn · May 2015

Hexos wrote: »

I wish, but i highly doubt it. ZoS seems to think the game in it's "pure" form shoudl be as immersive as possible so numbers are bad. That's why they let add-ons handle it. Since, PS4 won't support add-ons....

I have actually been playing with ZERO combat related addons these past 2 weeks in order to detox for console. I still miss seeing numbers, but part of me is now glad that I won't be fight against othe rplayers with addons telling them when to cleanse or execute or heal or ultimate.

Of course, you also won't know when things are broken (which is frequently lol)
That'll be good for ZOS tho.

coolermh · May 2015

Yea but for pvp it is very important to maximize the quality of the build. Its going to be a pain to have to test on the PC and then switch back to PS4. There should be some basic option to see damage/healing.

coolermh · May 2015

People will know because you can just see what is broken on PC then go do that on ps4. Really it just gives new console players more of a disadvantage

Rook_Master · May 2015

Realistically I'm at the point now where I don't need notifications to Cleanse or Break Free, but this is going to hurt new console players that will have no idea what's going on.

What will be difficult to discern is if your attacks are being blocked, reflected, or dodged.

Hexos · May 2015

Aye, We can still use research from the PC crowd to work on builds. Teh reason I am not worried is becuase even though theres a lack of information feedback, we will all be on the same playing feild. We all have to use the EXACT SAME TOOLS in combat. That goes for hardware as well. Everyone will have the same console, and same controller.

This is why i feel console may be slower paced but more rewarding for the skilled players. I also believe that the lack of global zone chat in AvA will help make it more fun( less zerging)

NewBlacksmurf · May 2015

Lol he tagged me....
Back in 2013 closed BETA this was brought up for PC.
So basically the game by design on console will not differ from what is seen on PC without any add-ins other than the text box and UI changes.

I've played with no add-ins and tried many but removed them right away.

It's not needed and when you take all that stuff away and just play you'll pay more attention to the active combat vs. any meters. The focus of ZOS is to get away from the call n respond combat.

Never say never but I seriously doubt you'll ever see this on console. If you have TES, start it up and look at the UI with no mods. The same will apply to the console version.

Health /magic/stamina meters only and mob health only.

It's a good decision

Cuyler · May 2015

Yeah you won't know when anything is happening! Won't it be glorious?!

Hexos · May 2015

Cuyler wrote: »

Yeah you won't know when anything is happening! Won't it be glorious?!

Not true. After i removed all of mine, i started to actually notice all the visual cues ZoS graciously built into the game again.
Simple things like a Cracked lookin health bar to tell me my Puncture is working, arrows or borders on my own health bar to tell me I am buffed or a HoT is ticking.

I KNOW it isnt exactly everything you WANT to know, but it is everything you NEED to know.

NewBlacksmurf · May 2015

Cuyler wrote: »

Yeah you won't know when anything is happening! Won't it be glorious?!

Honest question....what additional indicator is needed.
Dmg does dmg to a character/player and to mobs
Combat queues are pretty obvious
buffs and rebuffs are shown on the character if you want specifics
Arno and weapons have very specific info on the inventory when highlighted and pots, food too

Also consider most console players aren't 2 feet away from the screen so any indicator added has to be HUGE thus taking away from visibility to show something that is already obvious

Garion · May 2015

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

Yeah you won't know when anything is happening! Won't it be glorious?!

Honest question....what additional indicator is needed.
Dmg does dmg to a character/player and to mobs
Combat queues are pretty obvious
buffs and rebuffs are shown on the character if you want specifics
Arno and weapons have very specific info on the inventory when highlighted and pots, food too

Also consider most console players aren't 2 feet away from the screen so any indicator added has to be HUGE thus taking away from visibility to show something that is already obvious

Not having a DPS / HPS meter is a huge pain in an MMORPG in my opinion. It makes it very difficult to perfect your build and maximise dmg or healing output, which in turn makes it difficult to decide specifics on your build. Then again I would say that console players are less likely to care about this sort of thing, so perhaps it will be less of an issue.

NewBlacksmurf · May 2015

Garion wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

Yeah you won't know when anything is happening! Won't it be glorious?!

Honest question....what additional indicator is needed.
Dmg does dmg to a character/player and to mobs
Combat queues are pretty obvious
buffs and rebuffs are shown on the character if you want specifics
Arno and weapons have very specific info on the inventory when highlighted and pots, food too

Also consider most console players aren't 2 feet away from the screen so any indicator added has to be HUGE thus taking away from visibility to show something that is already obvious

Not having a DPS / HPS meter is a huge pain in an MMORPG in my opinion. It makes it very difficult to perfect your build and maximise dmg or healing output, which in turn makes it difficult to decide specifics on your build. Then again I would say that console players are less likely to care about this sort of thing, so perhaps it will be less of an issue.

Console players and PC players are the same people
The differences are the machines and communities they play in.

The whole point of this game is to get away from the traditional MMO stigma's.

There is a really good article poste back in 2012 or 2013 quoting Matt F and the direction ZOS was taking for TESO.
They caved and gave the PC version lots of options but many are causing the game to suffer.

Lots of posts are pointing out XYZ and what this game is missing compared to other MMO but what's funny is many miss that a lot is by intent.

Try something different in on an online multiplayer world.

nastuug · May 2015

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Garion wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

Yeah you won't know when anything is happening! Won't it be glorious?!

Honest question....what additional indicator is needed.
Dmg does dmg to a character/player and to mobs
Combat queues are pretty obvious
buffs and rebuffs are shown on the character if you want specifics
Arno and weapons have very specific info on the inventory when highlighted and pots, food too

Also consider most console players aren't 2 feet away from the screen so any indicator added has to be HUGE thus taking away from visibility to show something that is already obvious

Not having a DPS / HPS meter is a huge pain in an MMORPG in my opinion. It makes it very difficult to perfect your build and maximise dmg or healing output, which in turn makes it difficult to decide specifics on your build. Then again I would say that console players are less likely to care about this sort of thing, so perhaps it will be less of an issue.

Console players and PC players are the same people
The differences are the machines and communities they play in.

The whole point of this game is to get away from the traditional MMO stigma's.

There is a really good article poste back in 2012 or 2013 quoting Matt F and the direction ZOS was taking for TESO.
They caved and gave the PC version lots of options but many are causing the game to suffer.

Lots of posts are pointing out XYZ and what this game is missing compared to other MMO but what's funny is many miss that a lot is by intent.

Try something different in on an online multiplayer world.

In today's gaming age, it's rather difficult to simply shift directions to "get away from the traditional MMO stigmas." A gaming company can want to shift it all they want, but the community hasn't changed. There's no hope of it changing in favor of this style of gaming anytime soon either.

By providing that statement, ZOS also contradicts itself by adding in idiotic leaderboards and competitive events/gameplay. The more competitive a game is (PVE, PVP, Crafting, etc.), the more people will want to be better than the other person standing next to them. Additional UI components are needed to gauge speed, accuracy, and so on.

This is the world of gaming we live in today. It's not going anywhere just because "ZOS said so."

Cuyler · May 2015

Hexos wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

Yeah you won't know when anything is happening! Won't it be glorious?!

Not true. After i removed all of mine, i started to actually notice all the visual cues ZoS graciously built into the game again.
Simple things like a Cracked lookin health bar to tell me my Puncture is working, arrows or borders on my own health bar to tell me I am buffed or a HoT is ticking.

I KNOW it isnt exactly everything you WANT to know, but it is everything you NEED to know.

There are all different levels of players. Some are casual, semi-casual and hardcore. What I might need to compete at SO leaderboards level may be different than what a casual needs to compete at getting that no death achievement from COH or Gold keys or whatever. So your painting with quite a large brush there.

With that said, yes, there are built-in combat cues and UI elements showing certain things. The problem I see, for example, is that although there are arrows glowing on your HP bar, or a cracked look on your HP bar does that actually tell you what is going on? Is there somewhere it actually tells you what those mean? or are we to just inherently know those things? I know them, because I looked it up.

Then theres the issue of borked skills, like certain roots....for example a DK npc roots you but you don't see anything at your feet, your simply standing there and can't move....an addon would tell you your rooted whereas without it you just wonder, "why can't I move?".

These are just two examples....

NewBlacksmurf · May 2015

nastuug wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Garion wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

Yeah you won't know when anything is happening! Won't it be glorious?!

Honest question....what additional indicator is needed.
Dmg does dmg to a character/player and to mobs
Combat queues are pretty obvious
buffs and rebuffs are shown on the character if you want specifics
Arno and weapons have very specific info on the inventory when highlighted and pots, food too

Also consider most console players aren't 2 feet away from the screen so any indicator added has to be HUGE thus taking away from visibility to show something that is already obvious

Not having a DPS / HPS meter is a huge pain in an MMORPG in my opinion. It makes it very difficult to perfect your build and maximise dmg or healing output, which in turn makes it difficult to decide specifics on your build. Then again I would say that console players are less likely to care about this sort of thing, so perhaps it will be less of an issue.

Console players and PC players are the same people
The differences are the machines and communities they play in.

The whole point of this game is to get away from the traditional MMO stigma's.

There is a really good article poste back in 2012 or 2013 quoting Matt F and the direction ZOS was taking for TESO.
They caved and gave the PC version lots of options but many are causing the game to suffer.

Lots of posts are pointing out XYZ and what this game is missing compared to other MMO but what's funny is many miss that a lot is by intent.

Try something different in on an online multiplayer world.

In today's gaming age, it's rather difficult to simply shift directions to "get away from the traditional MMO stigmas." A gaming company can want to shift it all they want, but the community hasn't changed. There's no hope of it changing in favor of this style of gaming anytime soon either.

By providing that statement, ZOS also contradicts itself by adding in idiotic leaderboards and competitive events/gameplay. The more competitive a game is (PVE, PVP, Crafting, etc.), the more people will want to be better than the other person standing next to them. Additional UI components are needed to gauge speed, accuracy, and so on.

This is the world of gaming we live in today. It's not going anywhere just because "ZOS said so."

I will share actual experience in the console beta. None of the PUG dungeons I encountered which were all with "noobs" we completed them all with no extras needed vs. PC even today ppl can't finish dungeons and quit. In this case, less is best.

There is no lack of information but rather people's unwillingness to let go of meters to allow elitism. Everything you need is provided but just maybe in a different way.
That stuff needs to go away and stay away

When ppl are so consumed with meters they loose focus on playing well with others

Ask yourself...why did you leave the last few MMO games to play this...ZOS is doing something right.
Also, look at the remaining interest for the console versions after over a year of delays...

Sallington · May 2015

Anyone saying that not seeing actual data from your attacks is an advantage is lying to themselves.

I honestly don't know how people play without at least floating numbers letting you know how much damage your attacks do, or how much that heal hit for?

How do you know if a piece of gear is an upgrade if you can't see any information on how it's affecting skills in actual scenarios? I guess it's fine if you don't care and just fumble your way through builds and gear choices.

Sallington · May 2015

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

nastuug wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Garion wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

Yeah you won't know when anything is happening! Won't it be glorious?!

Honest question....what additional indicator is needed.
Dmg does dmg to a character/player and to mobs
Combat queues are pretty obvious
buffs and rebuffs are shown on the character if you want specifics
Arno and weapons have very specific info on the inventory when highlighted and pots, food too

Also consider most console players aren't 2 feet away from the screen so any indicator added has to be HUGE thus taking away from visibility to show something that is already obvious

Not having a DPS / HPS meter is a huge pain in an MMORPG in my opinion. It makes it very difficult to perfect your build and maximise dmg or healing output, which in turn makes it difficult to decide specifics on your build. Then again I would say that console players are less likely to care about this sort of thing, so perhaps it will be less of an issue.

Console players and PC players are the same people
The differences are the machines and communities they play in.

The whole point of this game is to get away from the traditional MMO stigma's.

There is a really good article poste back in 2012 or 2013 quoting Matt F and the direction ZOS was taking for TESO.
They caved and gave the PC version lots of options but many are causing the game to suffer.

Lots of posts are pointing out XYZ and what this game is missing compared to other MMO but what's funny is many miss that a lot is by intent.

Try something different in on an online multiplayer world.

In today's gaming age, it's rather difficult to simply shift directions to "get away from the traditional MMO stigmas." A gaming company can want to shift it all they want, but the community hasn't changed. There's no hope of it changing in favor of this style of gaming anytime soon either.

By providing that statement, ZOS also contradicts itself by adding in idiotic leaderboards and competitive events/gameplay. The more competitive a game is (PVE, PVP, Crafting, etc.), the more people will want to be better than the other person standing next to them. Additional UI components are needed to gauge speed, accuracy, and so on.

This is the world of gaming we live in today. It's not going anywhere just because "ZOS said so."

I will share actual experience in the console beta. None of the PUG dungeons I encountered which were all with "noobs" we completed them all with no extras needed vs. PC even today ppl can't finish dungeons and quit. In this case, less is best.

There is no lack of information but rather people's unwillingness to let go of meters to allow elitism. Everything you need is provided but just maybe in a different way.
That stuff needs to go away and stay away

When ppl are so consumed with meters they loose focus on playing well with others

Ask yourself...why did you leave the last few MMO games to play this...ZOS is doing something right.
Also, look at the remaining interest for the console versions after over a year of delays...

No numbers and meters makes it harder to help people too.

How can I help someone put out more dps or heals, if I don't know how much they are doing in the first place. I can't see their gear either so I can't give them any advice on what piece would help them out. Some of us like being able to help people besides saying, "Good try gang! I know we wiped 20 times so far, but everyone just keep doing their best!"

NewBlacksmurf · May 2015

Sallington wrote: »

Anyone saying that not seeing actual data from your attacks is an advantage is lying to themselves.

I honestly don't know how people play without at least floating numbers letting you know how much damage your attacks do, or how much that heal hit for?

How do you know if a piece of gear is an upgrade if you can't see any information on how it's affecting skills in actual scenarios? I guess it's fine if you don't care and just fumble your way through builds and gear choices.

It is an advantage...some would say an unfair advantage but add-ons are available to all on PC.
How do you play without it? Look at your items and gear/buffs, it's pretty obvious and tells you exactly how it affects your player.

I'm sensing a large lack of trust in the system that tends to come from using add-ons

It's just information, it not anything that we can change. Some want to see it and others don't but neither change the outcome of how it plays.

I'd rather have the least amount of things on my screen so that I can see the game. This is no different than TES games

BuggeX · May 2015

Playing without addons since ever(well some for inventory, hust hate list view)
Tanking everthing, DD with the same outbut like others in the raid (i installed once recount for a raid we)
in PVP im under the top 40
I rarly die in pve or pvp 1v1 or 2v1
if you Play Long enought without nothing, you will be good as others

Cuyler · May 2015

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

There is no lack of information but rather people's unwillingness to let go of meters to allow elitism. Everything you need is provided but just maybe in a different way.
That stuff needs to go away and stay away

When ppl are so consumed with meters they loose focus on playing well with others

Ask yourself...why did you leave the last few MMO games to play this...

It is a lack of information. It's only elitist if you chose to impose on others and be a **** about it, if someone is using the info for there own purpose it's simply good information. Not everyone left previous mmos because of damage meters, most leave because of graphics or just want something newer.

Heromofo · May 2015

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Sallington wrote: »

Anyone saying that not seeing actual data from your attacks is an advantage is lying to themselves.

I honestly don't know how people play without at least floating numbers letting you know how much damage your attacks do, or how much that heal hit for?

How do you know if a piece of gear is an upgrade if you can't see any information on how it's affecting skills in actual scenarios? I guess it's fine if you don't care and just fumble your way through builds and gear choices.

It is an advantage...some would say an unfair advantage but add-ons are available to all on PC.
How do you play without it? Look at your items and gear/buffs, it's pretty obvious and tells you exactly how it affects your player.

I'm sensing a large lack of trust in the system that tends to come from using add-ons

It's just information, it not anything that we can change. Some want to see it and others don't but neither change the outcome of how it plays.

I'd rather have the least amount of things on my screen so that I can see the game. This is no different than TES games

@NewBlacksmurf

Gotta agree with smurf

People have gotten way to comfortable with addons on the pc mmos.
Im glad none of them are on the consoles but i do wish they would bring some addons into the interface lile the guild vendor ones and the map icons.

Unless your transferring to console i would not worry about it and if you are then you must know how consoles work.
So you need to get on board with us console players or go back to the pc version.

That should be the end of the conversation

NewBlacksmurf · May 2015

Cuyler wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

There is no lack of information but rather people's unwillingness to let go of meters to allow elitism. Everything you need is provided but just maybe in a different way.
That stuff needs to go away and stay away

When ppl are so consumed with meters they loose focus on playing well with others

Ask yourself...why did you leave the last few MMO games to play this...

You need to stop spewing your opinion as fact.

It is a lack of information. It's only elitist if you chose to impose on others and be a **** about it, if someone is using the info for there own purpose it's simply good information. Not everyone left previous mmos because of damage meters, most leave because of graphics or just want something newer.

Did I offend you or step on your toes?that wasn't the intent.
What you consider my opinion is an actual observation which holds a lot of truth but why you take it as fact is your own problem.

It's not a lack of information but rather information not where you may prefer to see it or how you may prefer to see it.
The info is all there, which is why add-ons are able to show the info in various formats.

FYI I don't have a problem with any preference a player may have BUT it does create an advantage so while it may be a persons preference to see it, using those types of UI altering add-ons produce interpretations and results which can cause some players to be viewed differently, which is a form of elitism.

Sallington · May 2015

Heromofo wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Sallington wrote: »

Anyone saying that not seeing actual data from your attacks is an advantage is lying to themselves.

I honestly don't know how people play without at least floating numbers letting you know how much damage your attacks do, or how much that heal hit for?

How do you know if a piece of gear is an upgrade if you can't see any information on how it's affecting skills in actual scenarios? I guess it's fine if you don't care and just fumble your way through builds and gear choices.

It is an advantage...some would say an unfair advantage but add-ons are available to all on PC.
How do you play without it? Look at your items and gear/buffs, it's pretty obvious and tells you exactly how it affects your player.

I'm sensing a large lack of trust in the system that tends to come from using add-ons

It's just information, it not anything that we can change. Some want to see it and others don't but neither change the outcome of how it plays.

I'd rather have the least amount of things on my screen so that I can see the game. This is no different than TES games

@NewBlacksmurf

Gotta agree with smurf

People have gotten way to comfortable with addons on the pc mmos.
Im glad none of them are on the consoles but i do wish they would bring some addons into the interface lile the guild vendor ones and the map icons.

Unless your transferring to console i would not worry about it and if you are then you must know how consoles work.
So you need to get on board with us console players or go back to the pc version.

That should be the end of the conversation

"I'm glad none of the PC addons are coming to consoles, unless they are the ones I find personally useful."

Addons and PC go hand in hand. PC = customization.

Valymer · May 2015

Countless bugs in ESO have been fixed only because people using addons noticed that things weren't working as they were supposed to.

In a way, addons are the best diagnostic tool that this game has.

Even if you don't use addons, you should really show appreciation to the players that take the time to create them. Because if you think that this game is buggy now...just imagine it without addons showing us all these broken systems.

Cuyler · May 2015

Heromofo wrote: »

So you need to get on board with us console players or go back to the pc version.

That should be the end of the conversation

NO. @Heremofo I know you mean well but come on man this is a forum. We have issues you have issues this is where we come to vent them. Down playing someone elses wants/needs to simply stating "forget it and get on board or go away"? Is that really helping?

Heromofo · May 2015

Sallington wrote: »

Heromofo wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Sallington wrote: »

Anyone saying that not seeing actual data from your attacks is an advantage is lying to themselves.

I honestly don't know how people play without at least floating numbers letting you know how much damage your attacks do, or how much that heal hit for?

How do you know if a piece of gear is an upgrade if you can't see any information on how it's affecting skills in actual scenarios? I guess it's fine if you don't care and just fumble your way through builds and gear choices.

It is an advantage...some would say an unfair advantage but add-ons are available to all on PC.
How do you play without it? Look at your items and gear/buffs, it's pretty obvious and tells you exactly how it affects your player.

I'm sensing a large lack of trust in the system that tends to come from using add-ons

It's just information, it not anything that we can change. Some want to see it and others don't but neither change the outcome of how it plays.

I'd rather have the least amount of things on my screen so that I can see the game. This is no different than TES games

@NewBlacksmurf

Gotta agree with smurf

People have gotten way to comfortable with addons on the pc mmos.
Im glad none of them are on the consoles but i do wish they would bring some addons into the interface lile the guild vendor ones and the map icons.

Unless your transferring to console i would not worry about it and if you are then you must know how consoles work.
So you need to get on board with us console players or go back to the pc version.

That should be the end of the conversation

"I'm glad none of the PC addons are coming to consoles, unless they are the ones I find personally useful."

Addons and PC go hand in hand. PC = customization.

Yup sometimes i feel that the pc crowd is trying to poke holes in the console version to stop people from xfering.

I love console and i choose to play it but i wish to play the console version not a copy and paste version of the pc version lol.

Hexos · May 2015

This will all seem silly the first time console players accomplish the same achievments as PC players have.
MEaning, we will figure out how to beat the trials and DSA and vet dungeons eventually. Will it be harder without the addons?
Sure! Will we still have fun in the process. Sure!

At the end of the day that is all that matters. I love this game. If ZoS added a SCT toggle...I woudl turn it on, but until then, I will adapt and continue to enjoy the game. So will many other transfers. Plus the brand new console players wont even realize what they are missing.

nastuug · May 2015

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

nastuug wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Garion wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

Yeah you won't know when anything is happening! Won't it be glorious?!

Honest question....what additional indicator is needed.
Dmg does dmg to a character/player and to mobs
Combat queues are pretty obvious
buffs and rebuffs are shown on the character if you want specifics
Arno and weapons have very specific info on the inventory when highlighted and pots, food too

Also consider most console players aren't 2 feet away from the screen so any indicator added has to be HUGE thus taking away from visibility to show something that is already obvious

Not having a DPS / HPS meter is a huge pain in an MMORPG in my opinion. It makes it very difficult to perfect your build and maximise dmg or healing output, which in turn makes it difficult to decide specifics on your build. Then again I would say that console players are less likely to care about this sort of thing, so perhaps it will be less of an issue.

Console players and PC players are the same people
The differences are the machines and communities they play in.

The whole point of this game is to get away from the traditional MMO stigma's.

There is a really good article poste back in 2012 or 2013 quoting Matt F and the direction ZOS was taking for TESO.
They caved and gave the PC version lots of options but many are causing the game to suffer.

Lots of posts are pointing out XYZ and what this game is missing compared to other MMO but what's funny is many miss that a lot is by intent.

Try something different in on an online multiplayer world.

In today's gaming age, it's rather difficult to simply shift directions to "get away from the traditional MMO stigmas." A gaming company can want to shift it all they want, but the community hasn't changed. There's no hope of it changing in favor of this style of gaming anytime soon either.

By providing that statement, ZOS also contradicts itself by adding in idiotic leaderboards and competitive events/gameplay. The more competitive a game is (PVE, PVP, Crafting, etc.), the more people will want to be better than the other person standing next to them. Additional UI components are needed to gauge speed, accuracy, and so on.

This is the world of gaming we live in today. It's not going anywhere just because "ZOS said so."

I will share actual experience in the console beta. None of the PUG dungeons I encountered which were all with "noobs" we completed them all with no extras needed vs. PC even today ppl can't finish dungeons and quit. In this case, less is best.

There is no lack of information but rather people's unwillingness to let go of meters to allow elitism. Everything you need is provided but just maybe in a different way.
That stuff needs to go away and stay away

When ppl are so consumed with meters they loose focus on playing well with others

Ask yourself...why did you leave the last few MMO games to play this...ZOS is doing something right.
Also, look at the remaining interest for the console versions after over a year of delays...

When posed with a competitive event, there will always be humans that try to outperform one another. If you and I can complete a dungeon or killer a player in the same fashion, how do we tell who the better player is? Speed, burst damage, technique/style? Sure you may not consider these valuable gaming aspects or care to compare quality of gaming skills, but many do. Simply put, addons allow players to pull out individual numbers to gain the competitive edge allowed within the game.

Hell, that's only when we're talking the competitive aspect of it. How about maximizing your XP/HR grind or an easy way to track how many filled soul gems you're currently carry? Perhaps for more simple queues that casual players prefer. A plethora of active effects can tag a player at any given moment in PVP.

There should be a simple GUI, advanced in function, and easy to adjust options for the most basic features in these games. If Joe Schmo can code an addon for free, why not incorporate it into the base game? At that point, we can stop relying on third-party coding which could potentially cause UI issues in future patches if the addons are not updated in a timely manner.

Cuyler · May 2015

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Did I offend you or step on your toes?

I'm not offended, I'm just not going to sugar coat it anymore for you smurf. You'rr intentionally the most obtuse campaigner for this argument, consistently.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

It's not a lack of information but rather information not where you may prefer to see it or how you may prefer to see it.
The info is all there, which is why add-ons are able to show the info in various formats.

Blatant misinformation. It's not all there, if it was you wouldn't have players in the forums consistently asking , What is this glowy thing or that glowy thing....

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

FYI I don't have a problem with any preference a player may have BUT it does create an advantage so while it may be a persons preference to see it, using those types of UI altering add-ons produce interpretations and results which can cause some players to be viewed differently, which is a form of elitism.

All I can say is that someone is going to be called a nub no matter what if your not good, I won't be doing the name calling....but addons or not that not going to change.