keni_harringtonb16_ESO wrote: »

im all for improvments to the game but could everyone also state what class they are bcuz i mained a nb and i almost never had ulti unless i was ganking with a mana build using soul harvest *passively increases ulti gain* just for giggles for the people wanting 1.5 ulti gen back what class are you (or were you maining in 1.5)

I'm a nightblade.

So I was just reading through the comments and I see people discussing how broken spamming ultimates was back in the day and that was their reasoning for voting for the current system...

We do not want the old system back so we can spam ultimates, we want it back because it felt natural and rewarding. As I said earlier the current system feels like a chore is sooo boring and predictable with everyone gaining ultimate at the same rate no matter what they do. It leads to gimmicky playstyles like holding block in the middle of the field or dodge rolling around until your meteor is ready. If you don't have a ranged weapon you have to adapt your playstyle to gain ultimate.

If a system comes back similar to 1.5 it doesn't have to be an 'ulti spam fest'. Balance it so we don't get ultimate too fast.

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

If that is what you really want, and its not just certain DK/NB ultimate builds that could achieve infinite resources or near unkillability due to insane ultimate generation rate, then the only way to do it is to bring back 1.5 but.

• REMOVE all clas based skills and passives that affect ultimate. No more infinate resource DK builds from Battle Roar. No more permabat sorcs with 15% ult reduction and former emp passives on top of that.

People that want dynamic ult generation: would you give up all your class ult related passives to get it?

If not, then its is just DK/NB facetank nostalgia.

Yeah, as a nb I'd happily give up the transfer passive - it's been nerfed into the ground anyway.

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

IxSTALKERxI wrote: »

So I was just reading through the comments and I see people discussing how broken spamming ultimates was back in the day and that was their reasoning for voting for the current system...

We do not want the old system back so we can spam ultimates, we want it back because it felt natural and rewarding. As I said earlier the current system feels like a chore is sooo boring and predictable with everyone gaining ultimate at the same rate no matter what they do. It leads to gimmicky playstyles like holding block in the middle of the field or dodge rolling around until your meteor is ready. If you don't have a ranged weapon you have to adapt your playstyle to gain ultimate.

If a system comes back similar to 1.5 it doesn't have to be an 'ulti spam fest'. Balance it so we don't get ultimate too fast.

If that is what you really want, and its not just certain DK/NB ultimate builds that could achieve infinite resources or near unkillability due to insane ultimate generation rate, then the only way to do it is to bring back 1.5 but.

• REMOVE all clas based skills and passives that affect ultimate. No more infinate resource DK builds from Battle Roar. No more permabat sorcs with 15% ult reduction and former emp passives on top of that.

People that want dynamic ult generation: would you give up all your class ult related passives to get it?

If not, then its is just DK/NB facetank nostalgia.

The issues you point out such as infinite ressources thanks to battle roar, infini bats for nightblades or sorc, were only the case when those classes were facing zergs. On a 1v1 standpoint, ultimates weren't a problem and infinite ressource builds are even easier to manage as a dk now in duels thanks to the ulti buff (hello ferocious leap every 30 sec).

The main complaints since 1.6 have been zerging and lag. No more ways to deal with zergs, so ZOS buffed siege damage.
The result? Guess what zergs can use more siege than the small groups, so this doesn't change anything.

The old ulti system gave an advantage to outnumbered folks and gave them a chance to deal with zergs ! It didn't give an unbeatable advantage either, if that zerg was made of skilled players they would still overcome you of course, but if the smaller group was stronger, the zerg would collapse.

Bringing ulti generation back to a dynamic state wouldn't completely bring back the "facetankers" as you call them, because ttk has decreased so much anyways. They would be stronger than in the current state, but not as strong as they used to be, which is why I wouldn't give up the ult passives.

As for the PvErs complaining about this, we could look into a solution that combines an ulti buff like the one we have with more means of generating ulti? Or just figure out another way to add more ulti gen for tanks without adding additional gen for dps/healers.

TL;DR People complain about zergs more than before, the old ulti system was an answer to that. Ulti passives shouldn't go, ttk has decreased anyways so "facetankers" wouldn't be as strong as before

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

The current system is oke but I still find it strange that doing damage with abilities doesnt regen ultimate.
Ultimate regen out of combat shouldnt exist so the current system is a step in the right direction imo.

I agree that ultimate shouldn't be obtainable outside of combat, but it didn't require such an overhaul

ToRelax wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

The current system is oke but I still find it strange that doing damage with abilities doesnt regen ultimate.
Ultimate regen out of combat shouldnt exist so the current system is a step in the right direction imo.

You can still generate ultimate out of combat.

I think we are both talking about an exploited bug that only very few persons knows?

I didn't like how easy it was to charge your ult in 1.5 but I don't quite like how the 1.6 system works. I don't have any suggestions at the moment on how I would improve the situation but I think the 1.6 system, for the time being, works better than 1.5.

ToRelax wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

The current system is oke but I still find it strange that doing damage with abilities doesnt regen ultimate.
Ultimate regen out of combat shouldnt exist so the current system is a step in the right direction imo.

You can still generate ultimate out of combat.

I think we are both talking about an exploited bug that only very few persons knows?

In theory there are several ways but they dont all work that well.
Either way I don't feel like telling everyone on the forums .

I know of two ways, and both aren't intended. Not accessible to a solo dk sadly

I prefered the 1.5 ulti gain compared to todays. Nothing more I can add into it.

Veil of blades, standards and bats everywhere

Dynamic.

It can't be the dynamic ulty gen from 1.5. Just think about Ferocious leap with 1.5 ulty gen.

The focus on crits, CC and DoTs was stupid. I mean Burning Talons was like the ultimate generator. But a dynamic system would be really good now. That alone would probably give players a fighting chance against zergs again with the current AoE caps. And much more so without.

I would like a dynamic system, but with a different focus. In my dream system, Ultimate gain would begin by being based upon the amount of damage dealt, healing done, and damage mitigated. However, this value would scale down for every ally within a certain radius of your current position. This would mean that smaller groups would enjoy greater Ult gain vs larger groups.

In addition to this, I would increase Ultimate costs by about 200% and balance it so that a player unaffected by any reduction via nearby allies would still fill their meters in about the same time as they do on live now due to dybamic Ult generation.

Edit: I don't have a prob with the current system either, really. Even as a Magicka Templar who mostly dual wields, I am always constantly filling my Ult. Of course, I use mostly Empowering Sweep, so it's actually nigh-spammable.

Another way to have a more dynamic Ultimate regeneration would be to make it regen based on your Resources.

Every 1% of Magicka, Stamina or Health you lose/ use up (while in combat) grants you 1 Ultimate point.
(Should still be a increase in total Ultimate and Ultimate cost).

Max ultimate: 10K (currently 1K).
Ultimate cost: 10 times it is now.

A few Ultimate skills:
Radiant Sweep: 75 ultimate will become 750 ultimate.
Consuming Darkness: 200 Ultimate will become 2000 Ultimate.
Negate Magic: 225 ultimate will become 2250 ultimate.
Dragon Leap: 125 Ultimate will become 1250 ultimate.

- By using a skill you will drain your resource pool and thus gain ultimate.
- By getting damaged you would gain Ultimate.

Getting damaged as a Tank (while blocking) lowers your Health and Stamina, thus giving you ultimate.
By attacking someone using skills you drain your magicka or Stamina, thus giving you ultimate.

Having high magicka, stamina or health will (of course) lower the percentage you get drained when you use a skill or get hit.
This will result in you getting less Ultimate for an action compared to someone with lower recourses doing the same thing.
At the same time your ultimates are stronger, as well as your normal skills.

Having very low Magicka, stamina or health will be far more taxing on your resources (Percentage wise).
This will mean you gain faster ultimate points, but at the same time your ultimates are weaker, as well as your normal skills.

The more reckless you are with your recourses the more ultimate you would gain, but as we all know doing something like that comes with a price.

Dynamic ultimate gain is certainly good in the context of smaller vs bigger group but it really only favors AoE builds. I have mixed feelings about this because while mathematically it makes sense that you would have to run AoE to damage the most targets, but AoE contributes to the larger systemic problems. AoE skills, especially stacked AoE with heavy animations contributes to serious network lag and the unfavourable AoE blob vs blob combat that many people detest.

Lastly, ultimate generation from skill damage particularly favours AoE ultimates, which means AoE ultimates will become the cookie cutter pigeon hole of the month.

I want to support it, I really do, but it can't just be skill damage = ult. The mechanism has to be rooted in player combat in some other way.