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Why is this game so unresponsive?
SlayerTheDragon
✭✭✭✭✭
A lot of the guys on the forum really seem to know a bit more about this game than ZOS themselves, so here is the question: why is this game so unresponsive? What design flaw is at the root of this?
Take WOW for example (although any other MMO will work). Anyone who has played a rogue will know that the only restriction is the speed at which you can press the keys - your fingers are the bottle neck.
Now look at ESO, combat is a disaster compared to any other MMO, you hit a skill which sometimes does not fire - then you need to wait for the animation before pressing the next button. Weapon swaps are a 50/50.
Outside of combat I constantly need to press E 2-3 times before I can open a door. Sometimes I press H, and wait... then press H again. My character then mounts and dismounts directly. I mostly cannot speak to an NPC on my mount. Sometimes I need to spam E to talk to an NPC.
WTF is this about? I assume that the developers went for some animation trigger rather than the proper event driven triggers? Can something like this be fixed, or is this the product we will have to live with. I have been playing since beta, and this drunken lethargy feeling of the game is really growing annoying. I feel very tempted to join WOW again to experience the fast paced glory of arena matches again.
Edited by SlayerTheDragon on May 21, 2015 7:31AM Take WOW for example (although any other MMO will work). Anyone who has played a rogue will know that the only restriction is the speed at which you can press the keys - your fingers are the bottle neck.
Now look at ESO, combat is a disaster compared to any other MMO, you hit a skill which sometimes does not fire - then you need to wait for the animation before pressing the next button. Weapon swaps are a 50/50.
Outside of combat I constantly need to press E 2-3 times before I can open a door. Sometimes I press H, and wait... then press H again. My character then mounts and dismounts directly. I mostly cannot speak to an NPC on my mount. Sometimes I need to spam E to talk to an NPC.
WTF is this about? I assume that the developers went for some animation trigger rather than the proper event driven triggers? Can something like this be fixed, or is this the product we will have to live with. I have been playing since beta, and this drunken lethargy feeling of the game is really growing annoying. I feel very tempted to join WOW again to experience the fast paced glory of arena matches again.
¤═══¤ People don't like it when you talk to them with your weapon drawn ¤═══¤
11
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Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭WOW has cooldowns for abilities, TESO does not. If you could spam abilities as fast as you can hammer the button, it would be a mess.
Most of the perceived unresponsiveness comes from trying to use an ability too soon after another was used. For example if you hit the bolt escape button twice in rapid sucession, you will only bolt once, because the second keypress happened while the first animation was still going on. There is a delay between abilities, and you have to account for it.
Another matter is entering doors, mounting etc - that is mostly caused by lag, and usually only seen(at least for me) in PvP.2 -
Aquanova✭✭✭✭✭A lot of the guys on the forum really seem to know a bit more about this game than ZOS themselves, so here is the question: why is this game so unresponsive? What design flaw is at the root of this?
Take WOW for example (although any other MMO will work). Anyone who has played a rogue will know that the only restriction is the speed at which you can press the keys - your fingers are the bottle neck.
Now look at ESO, combat is a disaster compared to any other MMO, you hit a skill which sometimes does not fire - then you need to wait for the animation before pressing the next button. Weapon swaps are a 50/50.
Outside of combat I constantly need to press E 2-3 times before I can open a door. Sometimes I press H, and wait... then press H again. My character then mounts and dismounts directly. I mostly cannot speak to an NPC on my mount. Sometimes I need to spam E to talk to an NPC.
WTF is this about? I assume that the developers went for some animation trigger rather than the proper event driven triggers? Can something like this be fixed, or is this the product we will have to live with. I have been playing since beta, and this drunken lethargy feeling of the game is really growing annoying. I feel very tempted to join WOW again to experience the fast paced glory of arena matches again.
This is caused by ZOS refusal to hire professionals for their IT department
NA/PC8 -
Yolokin_Swagonborn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The bigger question is why is this game so unresponsive more than ONE YEAR after launch?
All of the "its just beta," "it's just launch," "every MMO has this problem at first" excuses are wearing thin.13 -
Earelith✭✭✭From what you describe i can only assume that you have a lot of latency for some reason..does this happen in every zone? I dont have the same experience as you..
For combat, think the animations as a global cooldown..action combat games always have the animation restriction. See tera for example, you have to wait for animation to end before doing other ability.
In games like wow you also have the auto attack that create the illusion of fast combat. Imagine if in wow there were no auto attack and you only saw your character swing his weapon when you press the button.
Anyway the combat in eso is far from perfect, but not even near that bad you describe it..most likely your experience is high latency.Edited by Earelith on May 20, 2015 5:59AM5 -
stojekarcub18_ESO✭✭✭✭You wrote a lot...and I'd be willing to read it all...
but as soon as you said, : Take WOW for example....
We're trying to get away from that rubbish system...
We know we can't get back to the good ol days before WOW, but we SURE AS HELL don't want WOW.
8 -
MisterBigglesworth✭✭✭✭✭
✭Well, their lead game designer is no longer with the company, so there's that...Really we do it without like, the musical instruments. This is the only musical: the mouth. And hopefully the brain attached to the mouth. Right? The brain, more important than the mouth, is the brain. The brain is much more important.3 -
Valymer✭✭✭✭✭It has nothing to do with WoW, this game is simply unresponsive at times.
Higher latency makes it worse but no matter what it has issues.1 -
Heromofo✭✭✭✭✭Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »The bigger question is why is this game so unresponsive more than ONE YEAR after launch?
All of the "its just beta," "it's just launch," "every MMO has this problem at first" excuses are wearing thin.
Didn't you know your still in beta mate remember your testing the game for console users.
8 -
SlayerTheDragon✭✭✭✭✭I do get a flat 250ms latency from any line I use (from South Africa). I get the same latency for GW2, WOW, FFXIV, and my brief time in WIldStar, and not one of them have that stuck in the mud feeling that ESO has. It's as if events are not firing or getting lost, or overridden for some reason.
Why do I have to press E 2-3 times to go through a door?
I think there is something wrong with the client > server relationship. Its as if the server is doing work which the client should be doing. This will also explain the server lag. The client should open the door and tell the server of my new location, not ask the server to open the door and give the client my new location!?!¤═══¤ People don't like it when you talk to them with your weapon drawn ¤═══¤4 -
BuggeX✭✭✭✭✭
✭I do get a flat 250ms latency from any line I use (from South Africa). I get the same latency for GW2, WOW, FFXIV, and my brief time in WIldStar, and not one of them have that stuck in the mud feeling that ESO has. It's as if events are not firing or getting lost, or overridden for some reason.
Why do I have to press E 2-3 times to go through a door?
I think there is something wrong with the client > server relationship. Its as if the server is doing work which the client should be doing. This will also explain the server lag. The client should open the door and tell the server of my new location, not ask the server to open the door and give the client my new location!?!
If we going back wath you suggest with cleint tell the Server wath to do, bottrains are coming back to.
That the Server has the last word, was just the fix for the bots.
And you know wath? im happy with it, first mmo i saw where absolut no bot is runnning arround.
If this is also the caus of lags, so it be.#makemagickadkgreataigan
#givemeaexecute
#ineedheal
#betterhotfixgrindspots0 -
retyler3_ESO✭✭✭A lot of the guys on the forum really seem to know a bit more about this game than ZOS themselves, so here is the question: why is this game so unresponsive? What design flaw is at the root of this?
Take WOW for example (although any other MMO will work). Anyone who has played a rogue will know that the only restriction is the speed at which you can press the keys - your fingers are the bottle neck.
Now look at ESO, combat is a disaster compared to any other MMO, you hit a skill which sometimes does not fire - then you need to wait for the animation before pressing the next button. Weapon swaps are a 50/50.
Outside of combat I constantly need to press E 2-3 times before I can open a door. Sometimes I press H, and wait... then press H again. My character then mounts and dismounts directly. I mostly cannot speak to an NPC on my mount. Sometimes I need to spam E to talk to an NPC.
WTF is this about? I assume that the developers went for some animation trigger rather than the proper event driven triggers? Can something like this be fixed, or is this the product we will have to live with. I have been playing since beta, and this drunken lethargy feeling of the game is really growing annoying. I feel very tempted to join WOW again to experience the fast paced glory of arena matches again.
Honestly, I am not seeing any of the problems you have mentioned except for mounting, and I have found that if I quit (not sure about logging off to switch characters, though I think it has the same effect) while mounted on my horse I have problems mounting my horse the next time I log in to the game; so I wait for the horse to finally appear, I dismount, quit, and log back in. I no longer have a problem with mounting my horse.0 -
SlayerTheDragon✭✭✭✭✭I do get a flat 250ms latency from any line I use (from South Africa). I get the same latency for GW2, WOW, FFXIV, and my brief time in WIldStar, and not one of them have that stuck in the mud feeling that ESO has. It's as if events are not firing or getting lost, or overridden for some reason.
Why do I have to press E 2-3 times to go through a door?
I think there is something wrong with the client > server relationship. Its as if the server is doing work which the client should be doing. This will also explain the server lag. The client should open the door and tell the server of my new location, not ask the server to open the door and give the client my new location!?!
If we going back wath you suggest with cleint tell the Server wath to do, bottrains are coming back to.
That the Server has the last word, was just the fix for the bots.
And you know wath? im happy with it, first mmo i saw where absolut no bot is runnning arround.
If this is also the caus of lags, so it be.
Yes I agree with the anti-botting, but there are far better ways to do it without having the gameplay suffer.
¤═══¤ People don't like it when you talk to them with your weapon drawn ¤═══¤1 -
BuggeX✭✭✭✭✭
✭I do get a flat 250ms latency from any line I use (from South Africa). I get the same latency for GW2, WOW, FFXIV, and my brief time in WIldStar, and not one of them have that stuck in the mud feeling that ESO has. It's as if events are not firing or getting lost, or overridden for some reason.
Why do I have to press E 2-3 times to go through a door?
I think there is something wrong with the client > server relationship. Its as if the server is doing work which the client should be doing. This will also explain the server lag. The client should open the door and tell the server of my new location, not ask the server to open the door and give the client my new location!?!
If we going back wath you suggest with cleint tell the Server wath to do, bottrains are coming back to.
That the Server has the last word, was just the fix for the bots.
And you know wath? im happy with it, first mmo i saw where absolut no bot is runnning arround.
If this is also the caus of lags, so it be.
Yes I agree with the anti-botting, but there are far better ways to do it without having the gameplay suffer.
Example? Even your epic legend top game wow from Blizzard failed after 10 years#makemagickadkgreataigan
#givemeaexecute
#ineedheal
#betterhotfixgrindspots0 -
Etaniel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I do get a flat 250ms latency from any line I use (from South Africa). I get the same latency for GW2, WOW, FFXIV, and my brief time in WIldStar, and not one of them have that stuck in the mud feeling that ESO has. It's as if events are not firing or getting lost, or overridden for some reason.
Why do I have to press E 2-3 times to go through a door?
I think there is something wrong with the client > server relationship. Its as if the server is doing work which the client should be doing. This will also explain the server lag. The client should open the door and tell the server of my new location, not ask the server to open the door and give the client my new location!?!
If we going back wath you suggest with cleint tell the Server wath to do, bottrains are coming back to.
That the Server has the last word, was just the fix for the bots.
And you know wath? im happy with it, first mmo i saw where absolut no bot is runnning arround.
If this is also the caus of lags, so it be.
Yes, let's have a game where we can pick our flowers in peace, but can't play PvP at all or even lag out in some PvE zones.
I'd rather have bots instead of lag.
I agree that this game feels unresponsive, and it's not because of latency.
One of the stupidest things you have to deal with in this game is your character's need to face an npc before you open the dialogue UI. Which means that when you are on your horse, you need to let some space between you and the npc otherwise your horse will get stuck like a *** trying to turn it's head in the right way. Totally unnecessary feature if you ask me. Weapon swap isn't instant, cc break has a slow animation and transitions between skills are clunky.
(1.5 animations were better and faster btw). It's not true for all skills or animations though, which kind of makes it worse as you expect the same quality on every skill
4 -
SeñorCinco✭✭✭✭I'm in the South Eastern US and I get noticeable lag in populated areas, to be expected. However , my character was teleporting earlier. For no reason, simply walking down the road.... he is immediately teleported to a spot twenty steps prior. This happened 5 times within a 2 hr secession. I'm not sure what that was about. Usually lag stutters your character in an advance sequence.
I still have random issues, crowded screen or not, every other encounter, with skills not firing and waiting 10-15 seconds for the animation to start harvesting raw materials or open a basket.Words contained in posts, at which point I stop reading and will not respond...
Toon / Mana / WoW or any acronym following "In ___" /
Pets (when referring to summoned Daedra) / Any verbiage to express slang (ie, ending in uz,az,..) / Soul Stone
... to be continued.
Now, get off my lawn.0 -
Heromofo✭✭✭✭✭I do get a flat 250ms latency from any line I use (from South Africa). I get the same latency for GW2, WOW, FFXIV, and my brief time in WIldStar, and not one of them have that stuck in the mud feeling that ESO has. It's as if events are not firing or getting lost, or overridden for some reason.
Why do I have to press E 2-3 times to go through a door?
I think there is something wrong with the client > server relationship. Its as if the server is doing work which the client should be doing. This will also explain the server lag. The client should open the door and tell the server of my new location, not ask the server to open the door and give the client my new location!?!
If we going back wath you suggest with cleint tell the Server wath to do, bottrains are coming back to.
That the Server has the last word, was just the fix for the bots.
And you know wath? im happy with it, first mmo i saw where absolut no bot is runnning arround.
If this is also the caus of lags, so it be.
Yes, let's have a game where we can pick our flowers in peace, but can't play PvP at all or even lag out in some PvE zones.
I'd rather have bots instead of lag.
I agree that this game feels unresponsive, and it's not because of latency.
One of the stupidest things you have to deal with in this game is your character's need to face an npc before you open the dialogue UI. Which means that when you are on your horse, you need to let some space between you and the npc otherwise your horse will get stuck like a *** trying to turn it's head in the right way. Totally unnecessary feature if you ask me. Weapon swap isn't instant, cc break has a slow animation and transitions between skills are clunky.
(1.5 animations were better and faster btw). It's not true for all skills or animations though, which kind of makes it worse as you expect the same quality on every skill
Gotta agree here if bots are the choice i will take them over lag as i get alot of the no firing crap as well.
0 -
SlayerTheDragon✭✭✭✭✭I do get a flat 250ms latency from any line I use (from South Africa). I get the same latency for GW2, WOW, FFXIV, and my brief time in WIldStar, and not one of them have that stuck in the mud feeling that ESO has. It's as if events are not firing or getting lost, or overridden for some reason.
Why do I have to press E 2-3 times to go through a door?
I think there is something wrong with the client > server relationship. Its as if the server is doing work which the client should be doing. This will also explain the server lag. The client should open the door and tell the server of my new location, not ask the server to open the door and give the client my new location!?!
If we going back wath you suggest with cleint tell the Server wath to do, bottrains are coming back to.
That the Server has the last word, was just the fix for the bots.
And you know wath? im happy with it, first mmo i saw where absolut no bot is runnning arround.
If this is also the caus of lags, so it be.
Yes, let's have a game where we can pick our flowers in peace, but can't play PvP at all or even lag out in some PvE zones.
I'd rather have bots instead of lag.
I agree that this game feels unresponsive, and it's not because of latency.
One of the stupidest things you have to deal with in this game is your character's need to face an npc before you open the dialogue UI. Which means that when you are on your horse, you need to let some space between you and the npc otherwise your horse will get stuck like a *** trying to turn it's head in the right way. Totally unnecessary feature if you ask me. Weapon swap isn't instant, cc break has a slow animation and transitions between skills are clunky.
(1.5 animations were better and faster btw). It's not true for all skills or animations though, which kind of makes it worse as you expect the same quality on every skill
This is exactly what I am talking about. There are a bunch of forces at play here, which results in a frustrating experience when doing the simplest things.¤═══¤ People don't like it when you talk to them with your weapon drawn ¤═══¤0 -
SlayerTheDragon✭✭✭✭✭To prove the latency issue, look at blocking.... I can block like a [snip].
Every single time I press RMB I block, lag or not, in the middle of Grahtwood trade center or in a solo quest. I cant cast a spell reliably, or swap to my resto staff in time to heal before I die, I cant talk to an NPC in one E press or open doors without looking like a lost fool, but I can block like a BOSS.
[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]Edited by ZOS_ArtG on May 20, 2015 2:43PM¤═══¤ People don't like it when you talk to them with your weapon drawn ¤═══¤2 -
BuggeX✭✭✭✭✭
✭yea absolut, better have some botzergs right here...
https://youtube.com/watch?v=xeBIvNuwheY
and this in every dungeon,
uppercarg would be a epic mess to just farm 1 mat
Gold sellers would be back
cheap China acc would be back...
yea lets have wow 2.0Edited by BuggeX on May 20, 2015 8:20AM#makemagickadkgreataigan
#givemeaexecute
#ineedheal
#betterhotfixgrindspots2 -
wrlifeboil✭✭✭✭✭WoW also had four datacenters across the U.S. (now down to two) and that improved the chances that you were closer to the datacenter thus lowering your latency depending on which realm you played on.
ZOS has one datacenter in the U.S. down in Dallas so if you're east or west coast U.S. or playing internationally from Australia, add a thousand miles or so more. That added distance increases latency by a bit but more importantly increases the chance that your isp's routing might run into problems.0 -
JD2013✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If by unresponsive, you mean can't spam abilities much, then yes. It's unresponsive.
I have found combat on this game far better than the likes of WoW. Standing and spamming button rotations does not an MMO make.Sweetrolls for all!
Christophe Mottierre - Breton Templar with his own whole darn estate! Templar Houses are so 2015. EU DC
PC Beta Tester January 2014
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The Runners
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https://tamrieltraveller.wordpress.com/
Crafting bag OP! ZOS nerf pls!0 -
Heromofo✭✭✭✭✭wrlifeboil wrote: »WoW also had four datacenters across the U.S. (now down to two) and that improved the chances that you were closer to the datacenter thus lowering your latency depending on which realm you played on.
ZOS has one datacenter in the U.S. down in Dallas so if you're east or west coast U.S. or playing internationally from Australia, add a thousand miles or so more. That added distance increases latency by a bit but more importantly increases the chance that your isp's routing might run into problems.
This Is Where ZOS Is Killing Off Us Aussies
Yeah but that is a problem i feel like they dont want customers outside the US because i am in Australia and the lag can be really bad at points. It's why a oceanic server should be brought in because unlike our pals in NZ we dont even have our nbn.
So our speeds are terrible heck alot of us are still on copper wire lines that are not meant to support the net. Got a mate who is lucky to get 512kbps at points i am on cable net and i get 2 mbps if im lucky. Zos quickly killed my mates off ESO without a server our side especially because unlike other mmos the combat is real time almost as in block the attack style.0 -
drschplatt✭✭✭✭I don't really know what the problem is, but I just want to confirm that I have a lot of the same problems. I get very frustrated with skills not working, doors not opening, loading screens not loading, weapons not swapping, etc. This is the only game I have these issues with. I've played many other MMOs from my overseas location and while I average a 200 - 300ms latency, ESO is the only game I play with such sloppy responsiveness. I personally think it has something to do with the whole mega server concept. It's the only real difference I've found with games.Foräois - Imperial Sorcerer of Ineptitude.
Widoch - Nord Dragon Knight of Ignorance.
Billy Bob - Dunmer Templar of Chicken and Noodles.
Blades of Vengeance1 -
Razzak✭✭✭✭✭WOW has cooldowns for abilities, TESO does not. If you could spam abilities as fast as you can hammer the button, it would be a mess.
Most of the perceived unresponsiveness comes from trying to use an ability too soon after another was used. For example if you hit the bolt escape button twice in rapid sucession, you will only bolt once, because the second keypress happened while the first animation was still going on. There is a delay between abilities, and you have to account for it.
Another matter is entering doors, mounting etc - that is mostly caused by lag, and usually only seen(at least for me) in PvP.
How does animation cancelling factor into this?0 -
Dixa✭✭✭✭look to your rig, OP. I have none of the problems you are complaining about.
The only time I get ability lag in most mmorpgs is when there is server lag. This has NOTHING to do with the design of content and I really wish people would educate themselves on the difference between poor framerates, latency and how mmorpg ui's interact with it all.
Too many around posting who learned all they know about the interwebs from call of duty voice chat.0 -
SlayerTheDragon✭✭✭✭✭If by unresponsive, you mean can't spam abilities much, then yes. It's unresponsive.
I have found combat on this game far better than the likes of WoW. Standing and spamming button rotations does not an MMO make.
I am talking about pressing a key and ... nothing. I don't spam keys as a play style, but woe betide you should you try to spam a key in ESO combat - the little ESO hamster falls right off the wheel then....¤═══¤ People don't like it when you talk to them with your weapon drawn ¤═══¤1 -
Dixa✭✭✭✭WOW has cooldowns for abilities, TESO does not. If you could spam abilities as fast as you can hammer the button, it would be a mess.
Most of the perceived unresponsiveness comes from trying to use an ability too soon after another was used. For example if you hit the bolt escape button twice in rapid sucession, you will only bolt once, because the second keypress happened while the first animation was still going on. There is a delay between abilities, and you have to account for it.
Another matter is entering doors, mounting etc - that is mostly caused by lag, and usually only seen(at least for me) in PvP.
How does animation cancelling factor into this?
age of conan has animation cancelling. it's not unique to this game.
could be worse - in age of conan, male players swing faster than female.0 -
Dixa✭✭✭✭wrlifeboil wrote: »WoW also had four datacenters across the U.S. (now down to two) and that improved the chances that you were closer to the datacenter thus lowering your latency depending on which realm you played on.
ZOS has one datacenter in the U.S. down in Dallas so if you're east or west coast U.S. or playing internationally from Australia, add a thousand miles or so more. That added distance increases latency by a bit but more importantly increases the chance that your isp's routing might run into problems.
This Is Where ZOS Is Killing Off Us Aussies
Yeah but that is a problem i feel like they dont want customers outside the US because i am in Australia and the lag can be really bad at points. It's why a oceanic server should be brought in because unlike our pals in NZ we dont even have our nbn.
So our speeds are terrible heck alot of us are still on copper wire lines that are not meant to support the net. Got a mate who is lucky to get 512kbps at points i am on cable net and i get 2 mbps if im lucky. Zos quickly killed my mates off ESO without a server our side especially because unlike other mmos the combat is real time almost as in block the attack style.
there are not that many games companies which can afford to have a separate oceanic data center.0 -
SlayerTheDragon✭✭✭✭✭WOW has cooldowns for abilities, TESO does not. If you could spam abilities as fast as you can hammer the button, it would be a mess.
Most of the perceived unresponsiveness comes from trying to use an ability too soon after another was used. For example if you hit the bolt escape button twice in rapid sucession, you will only bolt once, because the second keypress happened while the first animation was still going on. There is a delay between abilities, and you have to account for it.
Another matter is entering doors, mounting etc - that is mostly caused by lag, and usually only seen(at least for me) in PvP.
How does animation cancelling factor into this?
age of conan has animation cancelling. it's not unique to this game.
could be worse - in age of conan, male players swing faster than female.
Animation cancelling... what does that tell you about this "AAA" title? FFS.¤═══¤ People don't like it when you talk to them with your weapon drawn ¤═══¤0
