Fix the Justice System, or Remove it!

Earthwardzilvox_ESO · May 2015

Lets start with quests forcing players to break and enter, or putting quest interactables right next to stealable items, forcing players to steal when they don't want to. It is not ok to force players to break the law and get bounties. There's no reason we should be forced to participate in the justice system, ever.

Then lets look at the guards. It's impossible to flee indoors! They can't be killed no matter how many people are around, stealth abilities don't help you escape, they can't be CCd. The guards also have x-ray vision. They frequently decide to arrest people that they saw through the *** wall.

The maximum fence sales is bugged, badly. The daily reset doesn't actually occur. On the other hand, swapping from one fence to another tends to reset it. That system is terribly bugged.

Fix this ***! We're forced to participate, which we shouldn't be, and it's bugged disfavorably to the player.

Cry_Wolfe · May 2015

Earthwardzilvox_ESO wrote: »

Lets start with quests forcing players to break and enter, or putting quest interactables right next to stealable items, forcing players to steal when they don't want to. It is not ok to force players to break the law and get bounties. There's no reason we should be forced to participate in the justice system, ever.

Then lets look at the guards. It's impossible to flee indoors! They can't be killed no matter how many people are around, stealth abilities don't help you escape, they can't be CCd. The guards also have x-ray vision. They frequently decide to arrest people that they saw through the *** wall.

The maximum fence sales is bugged, badly. The daily reset doesn't actually occur. On the other hand, swapping from one fence to another tends to reset it. That system is terribly bugged.

Fix this ***! We're forced to participate, which we shouldn't be, and it's bugged disfavorably to the player.

there is an option in settings to Not Auto Loot NPC owned Items, its right under Do Not attack Neutral NPC's option.

Guards CAN be CC'd and here is a timer prohibiting interaction after getting hit, think its about 3 seconds(?). If you time it correctly you can CC a guard (away from a door) then get to the door and spam (INTERACT). Thieves Guild Hideouts (afaik) are always interactable.

>.< haven't done much with Justice lately, so any comment i make on Fence bugs would be out of line >.<

LtCrunch · May 2015

Threads like this make me miss the lol button. So much misinformation.

Daemons_Bane · May 2015

Just to be that guy.. Nobody FORCES you.. it was your choice tl take the quest

Mercutio · May 2015

While I agree it is not perfect, I enjoy the challenge of stealing from lockboxes and such.

olemanwinter · May 2015

I think Zos should remove everything from the game that isn't working properly.

Then we can all enjoy the launcher together.

SeñorCinco · May 2015

I think the guards should be the absolute. You get caught, you pay. You don't pay, you die. Either way... you pay.

Daemons_Bane · May 2015

Mercutio wrote: »

While I agree it is not perfect, I enjoy the challenge of stealing from lockboxes and such.

This

I've lost count on how many times they've caught me while I tried to loot that irresistible lockbox in the freaking middle of the market place

it has like a 6-8 sec window but I just can't leave it alone

NadiusMaximus · May 2015

olemanwinter wrote: »

I think Zos should remove everything from the game that isn't working properly.

Then we can all enjoy the launcher together.

Cough.... And crown store..... Cough....

Cherryblossom · May 2015

olemanwinter wrote: »

I think Zos should remove everything from the game that isn't working properly.

Then we can all enjoy the launcher together.

Your launcher works! Damn I'd be looking at my desktop. Actually thinking about I often am...

Tors · May 2015

I think ive seen 1? maybe two quests where i needed to break into someones house.

How many thousands of quests are there?

Enodoc · May 2015

The only quests in which you are required to break the law are quests which involve law-breaking activities. Re-stealing some stolen items to return them, for example. To an external observer, that would indeed make you look like the perpetrator. I think the quest giver even mentions that he can't help if you get caught so as to not blow his cover.

I agree that quest interactables right next to stealable items is a problem, that's something they should try to address. In the meantime, NoAccidentalStealing is your friend. Hopefully something like that gets added to the base UI though, as it's a useful system that console players can't otherwise have.

I haven't personally managed to escape from a guard inside either, but it is theoretically possible.

Tandor · May 2015

olemanwinter wrote: »

I think Zos should remove everything from the game that isn't working properly.

Then we can all enjoy the launcher together.

Could we just wait until they've fixed the PatchManifest Error 209 pretty please?

Rinmaethodain · May 2015

It is kind of silly how those totally OP and unkillable guards dissapear from city the very second its under attack from enemy forces. But as soon as puny soulless warrior clears it and saves the day they swarm streets and act all high and mighty when they catch you stealing rotten tomato from a box.

"Hey bruh you killed Molag Bal and saved whole tamriels, cool story bro but i might need to kill you for that tomato you just picked up"

EisregenX90 · May 2015

Invis Potions and you get away with everything

MissyMad · May 2015

Earthwardzilvox_ESO wrote: »

Lets start with quests forcing players to break and enter, or putting quest interactables right next to stealable items, forcing players to steal when they don't want to. It is not ok to force players to break the law and get bounties. There's no reason we should be forced to participate in the justice system, ever.

Then lets look at the guards. It's impossible to flee indoors! They can't be killed no matter how many people are around, stealth abilities don't help you escape, they can't be CCd. The guards also have x-ray vision. They frequently decide to arrest people that they saw through the *** wall.

The maximum fence sales is bugged, badly. The daily reset doesn't actually occur. On the other hand, swapping from one fence to another tends to reset it. That system is terribly bugged.

Fix this ***! We're forced to participate, which we shouldn't be, and it's bugged disfavorably to the player.

Get into your settings and change a few things, also you can run from guards indoors, kite them around for a moment and if you're not actively being attacked you can run out a door. As for the fence bug, I've never actually experienced that myself. As to forcing people to steal because things are "too close", pay attention to what you're doing. Can't just run around and spam your keyboard on everything... O.o

nimander99 · May 2015

LOL

Divinius · May 2015

Cry_Wolfe wrote: »

Earthwardzilvox_ESO wrote: »

... putting quest interactables right next to stealable items...

there is an option in settings to Not Auto Loot NPC owned Items, its right under Do Not attack Neutral NPC's option..

It only takes one button press to steal owned items that are NOT in containers, even with auto-loot turned off. There is absolutely NO way to prevent being able to steal items like this.

Just once I'd love to see a thread where someone complains about this, where no one incorrectly tells them that they can prevent it by changing options in the menu.

It cannot be prevented.

Sir_Xalvador · May 2015

LMAO...no one forces you to steal you have to except the steal if you do accidentally click on it so how is that forcing you ? and i agree i like the challenge of not being caught

snowmanflvb14_ESO · May 2015

What fence bug? I sell the max each day and wait till the reset then sell again. I have yet to see it bug. As other have said no one is forcing you to steal. There is the option to prevent accidentally stealing from a container and you just have to look before you click on items laying on a table an such.

idk · May 2015

I agree about the having to pick locks to do a quest. I didn't understand that. However, we differ after that point.

No quest forces a player to steal anything that would get them a bounty.

Invisability potions are used to get out of a room when a guard is on you.

Last, and most important. It seems like you are actively participating in the thieves system being you seem to be speaking from much experience with the fences and such.

dafox187 · May 2015

Earthwardzilvox_ESO wrote: »

Lets start with quests forcing players to break and enter, or putting quest interactables right next to stealable items, forcing players to steal when they don't want to. It is not ok to force players to break the law and get bounties. There's no reason we should be forced to participate in the justice system, ever.

Then lets look at the guards. It's impossible to flee indoors! They can't be killed no matter how many people are around, stealth abilities don't help you escape, they can't be CCd. The guards also have x-ray vision. They frequently decide to arrest people that they saw through the *** wall.

The maximum fence sales is bugged, badly. The daily reset doesn't actually occur. On the other hand, swapping from one fence to another tends to reset it. That system is terribly bugged.

Fix this ***! We're forced to participate, which we shouldn't be, and it's bugged disfavorably to the player.

i love this idea so much and i only read the title

Karminathevamp · May 2015

Just try the Drinking Game quest in the Rift where you are timed and must eat bread in between drinks. The bread is on a table right next to items marked "steal". While you run back and forth to eat bread, I stole two items accidentally while trying to pick the bread.

As soon as I finished that quest, the guard was right there to arrest me.

So, when you do that quest, empty your inventory of stolen goods or you'll lose them all and be ready to pay a small price ... There should only be the bread on the table, nothing else. I'm sure they did this just to *** us off!

DaveMoeDee · May 2015

Tors wrote: »

I think ive seen 1? maybe two quests where i needed to break into someones house.

How many thousands of quests are there?

I remember a quest and there are also lorebooks in locked houses.

If someone doesn't like it, tough. That is life. Sometimes you need to do things you normally wouldn't for a more important cause.

DaveMoeDee · May 2015

Sir_Xalvador wrote: »

LMAO...no one forces you to steal you have to except the steal if you do accidentally click on it so how is that forcing you ? and i agree i like the challenge of not being caught

This isn't complete accurate. If there are items on a desk, you can steal them by accident just by clicking. I have done this by mistake in a bank where there were coins on a desk.

NewBlacksmurf · May 2015

Nothing is broken based on this post. They added in logic....like TES games.
We just need to adjust accordingly and make sure we understand the rules

Divinius · May 2015

Sir_Xalvador wrote: »

...you have to except accept the steal if you do accidentally click on it ...

Once again, incorrect. Items that are not in containers are instantly stolen with just a single button press, regardless of any menu settings.

How are there so many people that don't understand this?

Jayne_Doe · May 2015

Actually, there is a quest in Bankorai (Hallin's Stand) or whatever it's called that requires you to break the law. You have to speak to one of the captain's former men to get some information to advance the quest. His house is locked (simple), so I had to break and enter to get in to speak with him. Of course, once inside, he wasn't hostile or anything, but still.

And yes, this is a skippable quest, as you don't need to complete this to advance the zone storyline, but it's about part way through a rather lengthy chain of subquests and I didn't want to just abandon it entirely. And, I don't think you should have to. I didn't mind doing it, as it got me an achievement, but in practice, my character doesn't break into houses. That's a roleplay choice, which a lot of people don't get.

And, I did get caught stealing some food item from one of the cooking stations in the bar in Davon's watch (near the water). I clicked on the cooking fire as I approached, but somehow managed to hover over the actual cooking pot hanging there, which happened to have food in it - seriously? Ah, well. I do have auto loot off, and it doesn't make a difference for items found in the world.

And, no - I'm not asking them to remove the Justice System - I think it's working relatively well, and we've all learned that we just have to be careful when approaching vendors, cooking pots, etc.

TheShadowScout · May 2015

[quote="Earthwardzilvox_ESO;171203"There's no reason we should be forced to participate in the justice system, ever.[/quote]
Personally I think there's no reason anyone should be able to avoid the justice system, ever!
And that it should have been there from the start, for the TES feel.

If a quest requires you to break into a house to, uhm, "borrow" some dwemer tube for that friendly mage in Skywatch, you either have to bend the law a little, and take care not get caught, or drop the quest and decline to do it. Period.

As for unintentionally picking up stuff... in all my time playing since the justice system, that happened exactly once to me. All the other times, I pay attention enough not to do it. I suppose they could clear up things a little here and there... but it was no big for me, I paid the fine, and since I don't habitually carry around hot goods, but fence them right away... well...

f course, some things in the justice system are suboptimal.

Unkillable guards? I'd rather the guards were quite killable for realism sake, but had an "instant defeat vs. lawbreakers" spell to make sure gangs don't just slaughter whole cities (and we know that would happen if it could...)

Fence buggyness? Yes, I encountered that as well. But its bugged in the players favor, the maximum number of transactions resetting to zero now and then (usually when switching fences, but I also had it happen when talking to the same fance again after laundering a few things...)

Majic · May 2015

There Ain't No Justice

Earthwardzilvox_ESO wrote: »

Lets start with quests forcing players to break and enter, or putting quest interactables right next to stealable items, forcing players to steal when they don't want to. It is not ok to force players to break the law and get bounties. There's no reason we should be forced to participate in the justice system, ever.

This issue was covered in substantial detail in this thread: Players Need More Control Over Justice System Choices

The takeaway: while it's possible there may be some adjustments based on "friction points", the way things are is probably the way things will stay.

Given the even less precise control paradigms of the platforms involved, I think it will be interesting to see how console players respond to this scheme. Maybe they'll love it. Who knows?

There are clearly plenty of PC fans of the current regime, so it may be a non-issue. ZOS may also make adjustments to accommodate console players that they won't make for PC players. Hard to say.

There are more than a few players who don't like these sorts of interface design "gotchas", however, so please don't feel you are alone in this.

Vahrokh · May 2015

olemanwinter wrote: »

I think Zos should remove everything from the game that isn't working properly.

Then we can all enjoy the launcher together.

The launcher is one of the most bugged pieces of the software. That leaves us with the launcher icon link...