What in Oblivion has happened to Cyrodiil?!

Teargrants · May 2015

Satiar wrote: »

either a sorc or they get run over.

You know, for some reason I'm not entirely opposed to that idea...

Oughash · May 2015

Satiar wrote: »

Rapid Maneuvers is really the main thing holding groups together. I don't think raids could function without it.

Something like that would cure zergball play, but it would also annihilate small group play of any kind. All you'd have to do is hit people with snares and that's that, they're either a sorc or they get run over. And you'd have nothing capable of actually breaking up a large pug zerg.

People complaining about Vigor don't know how raids work. Vigor is not a make or break, in any way. It's a pillow, a luxury. Raids still run on their Templars, or their dedicated healers. Vigor helps in the same way any splash healing helps, but take it or leave it, it's not going to change how groups function.

Group V Group combat is still amazingly fun in this game, though. Hitting, disengaging, circling, trying to get the enemy in a spot where you can annihilate the bulk of their force without losing your own... it's a lot of strategy and it's a blast.

This is a good summary. I would only add that its Maneuvers, Purge, Caltrops, and Barrier which hold the group together. Although I will concede that maneuvers is absolutely the most important. Vigor and Detonation are pure icing.

Also agreed that Group vs Group combat is really fun. With some careful tweaks (most of which have already been identified) it will get better.

Vizier · May 2015

Jakx wrote: »

I believe lag is the largest to blame for scant populations. ZOS got what they wanted with spreading out... people spread so far out they changed campaigns so that there is no competition left.

You dont want to leave a laggy campaign for one thats getting destroyed because your faction is underpopulated. So everybody has taken home to faction dominate campaigns. The effects from that begin to trickle down. Why play when theres nobody to play against or you lag on Chill?

This...

IMO the balance since 1.6 is far better than it was before, with exceptions made for shield stacking and Nirnhoned. Fix that and we'll be very much on the right track.

The LAG has been the primary killer of PvP. Thing is it's not just "THE LAG." It's that there are certain groups of players that pretty much cause this lag. It's amazing to me that as a DC player I can be involved in a large battle vs AD and the game plays OK. As soon as I'm in a battle with a Large group of Certain EP players the game lags like crazy...cough.

I can be on Blackwater blade in a large battle vs both factions and the game plays ok 20-30 FPS with 200 plus people in the area. I jump back to chillrend and framerates drop and latency increases to 999. Once again..only when "certain" groups of players are playing.

What does that mean? You decide.

Also it doesn't help when some of DC's largest guilds refuse to accept a challenge and merely follow the path of least resistance. They've pretty much jacked up faction balance on two NA campaigns by taking their ball and going home..no names. just saying. they could stand to grow up a little.

Goldie · May 2015

Well here are 4 pages of what is wrong with Cyrodiil atm.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler Perhaps you can read some of this and maybe make a statement?

The players on this forum represent the rest of the community and how they feel about the game.

410 days of being ignored after reporting bugs, glitches, lag, exploiters, and cheaters, some of us wonder if you even still have your job.

FENGRUSH · May 2015

Teargrants wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

either a sorc or they get run over.

You know, for some reason I'm not entirely opposed to that idea...

FENGRUSH approves this idea

FMonk · May 2015

Vizier wrote: »

IMO the balance since 1.6 is far better than it was before, with exceptions made for shield stacking and Nirnhoned. Fix that and we'll be very much on the right track.

^How to identify a stamina user on the forums.

Saft · May 2015

FMonk wrote: »

Vizier wrote: »

IMO the balance since 1.6 is far better than it was before, with exceptions made for shield stacking and Nirnhoned. Fix that and we'll be very much on the right track.

^How to identify a stamina user on the forums.

Lol yeah possibly NB also.

Satiar · May 2015

Ishammael wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Rapid Maneuvers is really the main thing holding groups together. I don't think raids could function without it.

Something like that would cure zergball play, but it would also annihilate small group play of any kind. All you'd have to do is hit people with snares and that's that, they're either a sorc or they get run over. And you'd have nothing capable of actually breaking up a large pug zerg.

People complaining about Vigor don't know how raids work. Vigor is not a make or break, in any way. It's a pillow, a luxury. Raids still run on their Templars, or their dedicated healers. Vigor helps in the same way any splash healing helps, but take it or leave it, it's not going to change how groups function.

Group V Group combat is still amazingly fun in this game, though. Hitting, disengaging, circling, trying to get the enemy in a spot where you can annihilate the bulk of their force without losing your own... it's a lot of strategy and it's a blast.

This is a good summary. I would only add that its Maneuvers, Purge, Caltrops, and Barrier which hold the group together. Although I will concede that maneuvers is absolutely the most important. Vigor and Detonation are pure icing.

Also agreed that Group vs Group combat is really fun. With some careful tweaks (most of which have already been identified) it will get better.

Why caltrops? So like em but they always felt like icing to me. Enemy caltrops don't mess with us, can't imgaine ours are the deciding factor.

Kelleton · May 2015

Satiar wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Rapid Maneuvers is really the main thing holding groups together. I don't think raids could function without it.

Something like that would cure zergball play, but it would also annihilate small group play of any kind. All you'd have to do is hit people with snares and that's that, they're either a sorc or they get run over. And you'd have nothing capable of actually breaking up a large pug zerg.

People complaining about Vigor don't know how raids work. Vigor is not a make or break, in any way. It's a pillow, a luxury. Raids still run on their Templars, or their dedicated healers. Vigor helps in the same way any splash healing helps, but take it or leave it, it's not going to change how groups function.

Group V Group combat is still amazingly fun in this game, though. Hitting, disengaging, circling, trying to get the enemy in a spot where you can annihilate the bulk of their force without losing your own... it's a lot of strategy and it's a blast.

This is a good summary. I would only add that its Maneuvers, Purge, Caltrops, and Barrier which hold the group together. Although I will concede that maneuvers is absolutely the most important. Vigor and Detonation are pure icing.

Also agreed that Group vs Group combat is really fun. With some careful tweaks (most of which have already been identified) it will get better.

Why caltrops? So like em but they always felt like icing to me. Enemy caltrops don't mess with us, can't imgaine ours are the deciding factor.

caltrops are completely negated by rapid...they are not an issue at all

Satiar · May 2015

That was my thought

Manoekin · May 2015

Kelleton wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Rapid Maneuvers is really the main thing holding groups together. I don't think raids could function without it.

Something like that would cure zergball play, but it would also annihilate small group play of any kind. All you'd have to do is hit people with snares and that's that, they're either a sorc or they get run over. And you'd have nothing capable of actually breaking up a large pug zerg.

People complaining about Vigor don't know how raids work. Vigor is not a make or break, in any way. It's a pillow, a luxury. Raids still run on their Templars, or their dedicated healers. Vigor helps in the same way any splash healing helps, but take it or leave it, it's not going to change how groups function.

Group V Group combat is still amazingly fun in this game, though. Hitting, disengaging, circling, trying to get the enemy in a spot where you can annihilate the bulk of their force without losing your own... it's a lot of strategy and it's a blast.

This is a good summary. I would only add that its Maneuvers, Purge, Caltrops, and Barrier which hold the group together. Although I will concede that maneuvers is absolutely the most important. Vigor and Detonation are pure icing.

Also agreed that Group vs Group combat is really fun. With some careful tweaks (most of which have already been identified) it will get better.

Why caltrops? So like em but they always felt like icing to me. Enemy caltrops don't mess with us, can't imgaine ours are the deciding factor.

caltrops are completely negated by rapid...they are not an issue at all

Do they still proc every melee proc ability though? :P

Xsorus · May 2015

Could make rapid only work on 4 people, which is the size of a group.. Not 30+ like some think

hammayolettuce · May 2015

Make efficient purge only work on yourself and make the cleanse morph of it cost more and hit 4 targets. Purge spam ends. Siege is viable.

Bring back old ulti gen in pvp so small groups have a chance.

Oughash · May 2015

Manoekin wrote: »

Do they still proc every melee proc ability though? :P

This.

Second: they have they largest AoE radius of any ability. With weapon dmg stacking they do strong damage, espcially when 4-6 people drop them together.
Third: If you're using maneuvers you're not attacking. Hence, caltrops.
Fourth: they burn stamina on blockers.

Satiar · May 2015

Ishammael wrote: »

Manoekin wrote: »

Do they still proc every melee proc ability though? :P

This.

Second: they have they largest AoE radius of any ability. With weapon dmg stacking they do strong damage, espcially when 4-6 people drop them together.
Third: If you're using maneuvers you're not attacking. Hence, caltrops.
Fourth: they burn stamina on blockers.

Still just icing. Not going to make or break a strong group. Not in the way Purge or Rapid Maneuvers would.

Oughash · May 2015

Satiar wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Manoekin wrote: »

Do they still proc every melee proc ability though? :P

This.

Second: they have they largest AoE radius of any ability. With weapon dmg stacking they do strong damage, espcially when 4-6 people drop them together.
Third: If you're using maneuvers you're not attacking. Hence, caltrops.
Fourth: they burn stamina on blockers.

Still just icing. Not going to make or break a strong group. Not in the way Purge or Rapid Maneuvers would.

Fair enough. Just a strong ability always employed.

DaveMoeDee · May 2015

Ishammael wrote: »

Like I stated in another thread before it was locked: PvP is on the way out w/o some significant work. Last night each faction was just PvE'ing on their buff server. Barely any fights anywhere except in non-vet. AD poplocked chill with an emp and took every keep. DC did the same on Haderus AND Azuras, stangely. Thorn has been red since 1.6 dropped.

I want a map pop-locked 100% of the time so that fights are everywhere. Unfortunately, when that happens the server lags out and everyone knows this. I suggest we all play something else for a few months.

EDIT: I think the number of threads on this topic over the last few weeks is telling. Sure, PvPers always have some axe to grind. But there has been absolutely zero response from ZOS. Not in a good state right now.

Is there zero response or is the response 'wait until after console launch'?

Satiar · May 2015

Ishammael wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Manoekin wrote: »

Do they still proc every melee proc ability though? :P

This.

Second: they have they largest AoE radius of any ability. With weapon dmg stacking they do strong damage, espcially when 4-6 people drop them together.
Third: If you're using maneuvers you're not attacking. Hence, caltrops.
Fourth: they burn stamina on blockers.

Still just icing. Not going to make or break a strong group. Not in the way Purge or Rapid Maneuvers would.

Fair enough. Just a strong ability always employed.

Oh ya, i use it.

There's all these little things that make these raids so effective, I was just reflecting on the ones that keep the gears turning. As long as I have the ability to purge effects, roots and snares, I can run a strong damage group. Abilities and metas come and go, negates, fear bombs, prox dets, vigor, caltrops, etc. These enhance what I do, but they're not the base of what keeps it rolling.