Race Change is VERY dangerous. What stops ZOS from "rebalancing" racial passives every 6 months or so leading players to feeling "encouraged" to buy a race change from the Crown Store?

I'm not saying they would DO this, I'm saying it opens the door for abuse.

I'd prefer we be given the option to choose racial passives for alts: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/153977/eso-character-offspring-a-phylogenetics-concept/p1

I don't think I'll ever quite understand the whole "race change is lore breaking" argument. With all the crazy things that happen in Tamriel, someone finding a way to change their race wouldn't make my top 10 list.

It will make them money.

It will be added.

Simple as that.

PKMN12 wrote: »

ebls_BR wrote: »

They have not said "it will happen". It is always "in their plan to introduce" or "they are studying the idea", etc. And even if they had said and confirmed, how many plans or ideas were forgotten or abandoned in this game?

The community is very divided about this.... Personally I don't like this idea (any of those: race change, class change, alliance change, etc.). But I can see this happening without making a major problem if they limit this race change for toon or account.

no, they have said in the recent podcasts, it IS coming soon.

I saw this podcast and they not said they will do for certain.

Robo_Hobo wrote: »

Ley wrote: »

I don't think I'll ever quite understand the whole "race change is lore breaking" argument. With all the crazy things that happen in Tamriel, someone finding a way to change their race wouldn't make my top 10 list.

Didn't someone already manage it? I can't remember where it was but wasn't there a quest where a Dunmer managed to transform himself into a khajiit because he liked them and wanted to be one? It might not have been a dunmer or khajiit, but pretty sure it was an elf to a beastrace.

I also can't remember if they succeded, but it was definitely a quest. It's been awhile.

Regardless, even without that, I just see it as gameplay/story segregation

Yep, it was a quest in Greenshade. We don't know if that was a mere disguise, a spell which would change only the exterior, if the passives or the racial characteristics were changed. Seems more a potions effect since you should bring to him the ingredients and it would make him looks like a Khajiit (and he conserves his voice, his identity, etc.). And we have a lot of examples of disguises able to change the appearance, but not exactly the race (we can disguise ourselves like a goblin, we have in Auridon a quest we can disguise as a Altmer to spy the Veiled Heritance and also in Greenshade Razum Dar disguise himself like the Queen, etc.). None of these exemples are able to refuse the fact that today, a race change, without any better explanation (like the use of the wabbajack) would be contrary to lore.

By the common understanding the only one(s) who could really change the essence of a being would be a Daedric Prince. Someone have suggested, some time ago, you could gain a token from Meridia doing Cadwell and/or Silver quests. That was an interesting idea.

ebls_BR wrote: »

PKMN12 wrote: »

ebls_BR wrote: »

They have not said "it will happen". It is always "in their plan to introduce" or "they are studying the idea", etc. And even if they had said and confirmed, how many plans or ideas were forgotten or abandoned in this game?

The community is very divided about this.... Personally I don't like this idea (any of those: race change, class change, alliance change, etc.). But I can see this happening without making a major problem if they limit this race change for toon or account.

no, they have said in the recent podcasts, it IS coming soon.

I saw this podcast and they not said they will do for certain.

Robo_Hobo wrote: »

Ley wrote: »

I don't think I'll ever quite understand the whole "race change is lore breaking" argument. With all the crazy things that happen in Tamriel, someone finding a way to change their race wouldn't make my top 10 list.

Didn't someone already manage it? I can't remember where it was but wasn't there a quest where a Dunmer managed to transform himself into a khajiit because he liked them and wanted to be one? It might not have been a dunmer or khajiit, but pretty sure it was an elf to a beastrace.

I also can't remember if they succeded, but it was definitely a quest. It's been awhile.

Regardless, even without that, I just see it as gameplay/story segregation

Yep, it was a quest in Greenshade. We don't know if that was a mere disguise, a spell which would change only the exterior, if the passives or the racial characteristics were changed. Seems more a potions effect since you should bring to him the ingredients and it would make him looks like a Khajiit (and he conserves his voice, his identity, etc.). And we have a lot of examples of disguises able to change the appearance, but not exactly the race (we can disguise ourselves like a goblin, we have in Auridon a quest we can disguise as a Altmer to spy the Veiled Heritance and also in Greenshade Razum Dar disguise himself like the Queen, etc.). None of these exemples are able to refuse the fact that today, a race change, without any better explanation (like the use of the wabbajack) would be contrary to lore.

By the common understanding the only one(s) who could really change the essence of a being would be a Daedric Prince. Someone have suggested, some time ago, you could gain a token from Meridia doing Cadwell and/or Silver quests. That was an interesting idea.

It would be possible and realistic in the es lore, just think of Wabbajack, god this staff can make a frog out of you.

so just make a realistic item,

scroll to sheogorath: port you to sheogorath wich use wabbajack on you to Change you Body wathever

AngryNord wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Race Change is VERY dangerous. What stops ZOS from "rebalancing" racial passives every 6 months or so leading players to feeling "encouraged" to buy a race change from the Crown Store?

I'm not saying they would DO this, I'm saying it opens the door for abuse.

I'd prefer we be given the option to choose racial passives for alts: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/153977/eso-character-offspring-a-phylogenetics-concept/p1

NO race change.
NO "free choice" of racial passives.
This game has already bended TES lore in so many ways, we DON'T need to ruin it completely.

Personally I am not against race changes from a lore standpoint so much as I am against it for fotm-related reasons. It would be one thing if they wanted to change race due to aesthetic reasons, but I think we all know that the race changes are just for choosing 'superior' passives.

ebls_BR wrote: »

PKMN12 wrote: »

ebls_BR wrote: »

They have not said "it will happen". It is always "in their plan to introduce" or "they are studying the idea", etc. And even if they had said and confirmed, how many plans or ideas were forgotten or abandoned in this game?

The community is very divided about this.... Personally I don't like this idea (any of those: race change, class change, alliance change, etc.). But I can see this happening without making a major problem if they limit this race change for toon or account.

no, they have said in the recent podcasts, it IS coming soon.

I saw this podcast and they not said they will do for certain.

Robo_Hobo wrote: »

Ley wrote: »

I don't think I'll ever quite understand the whole "race change is lore breaking" argument. With all the crazy things that happen in Tamriel, someone finding a way to change their race wouldn't make my top 10 list.

Didn't someone already manage it? I can't remember where it was but wasn't there a quest where a Dunmer managed to transform himself into a khajiit because he liked them and wanted to be one? It might not have been a dunmer or khajiit, but pretty sure it was an elf to a beastrace.

I also can't remember if they succeded, but it was definitely a quest. It's been awhile.

Regardless, even without that, I just see it as gameplay/story segregation

Yep, it was a quest in Greenshade. We don't know if that was a mere disguise, a spell which would change only the exterior, if the passives or the racial characteristics were changed. Seems more a potions effect since you should bring to him the ingredients and it would make him looks like a Khajiit (and he conserves his voice, his identity, etc.). And we have a lot of examples of disguises able to change the appearance, but not exactly the race (we can disguise ourselves like a goblin, we have in Auridon a quest we can disguise as a Altmer to spy the Veiled Heritance and also in Greenshade Razum Dar disguise himself like the Queen, etc.). None of these exemples are able to refuse the fact that today, a race change, without any better explanation (like the use of the wabbajack) would be contrary to lore.

By the common understanding the only one(s) who could really change the essence of a being would be a Daedric Prince. Someone have suggested, some time ago, you could gain a token from Meridia doing Cadwell and/or Silver quests. That was an interesting idea.

In the alkir desert there's a kajit that sold people potions that transformed them into animals. In stormhaven there's an argonian who has you help her turn into a crocodile. There's a mages guild quest where drinking from a goblet turns people into goblins. someone else mentioned the wabajack. There's a couple cases of people transferring their souls into constructs. With stuff like that going on all over Tamriel, race change doesn't seem like that big of a deal.

So, even if i change race for example from orc dragonknight to dunmer i'm going to loose some really precious passives that dunmers had before ? Its totally unfair isn't it?
Most of the people from the beta tests already knew that some races are "best choice" for some roles. Like magicka dps dunmer dk, magicka dps altmer sorcerer etc. And if ZOS is going to rebalance racial passives, not only main characters even alts are going to be not the best choice. Simply its like saying "you should buy another copy of our game" and start everything from the beginning, that most of us already already done

The people who are against race change are either those who don't care for min-maxing or those who have a good race for their character build. Those of us who created our characters for a certain build but changed later on would like to change our race so we do not lack the benefits specific races offer to our builds.

If your argument is that it is lore-breaking - how would someone else performing a race change affect you? There are ways to change your race and appearance in the Elder Scrolls anyway.

Faulgor wrote: »

After consoles.

Which sounds more and more like a religious mantra, reaffirming the believe in the promised land.

Nick, the Prophet, who walks among us no more!
Be revered for the prophecies of QuakeCon 2014,
which shall be fulfilled in your thrice blessed honor.
After consoles.
Matt, Paul and Chris, that you are surveying the toil of your developers!
For their labor builds the road to new lands,
which we shall walk under your guiding grace.
After consoles.
Gina, Jessica and Jason, that you are guarding this community!
Be praised for the message that you shall deliver LIVE,
of the new and the shiny and the meaningful content.
After consoles.

Missing the lol, but take a awesome, and a cooki

Ley wrote: »

ebls_BR wrote: »

Ley wrote: »

ebls_BR wrote: »

PKMN12 wrote: »

ebls_BR wrote: »

They have not said "it will happen". It is always "in their plan to introduce" or "they are studying the idea", etc. And even if they had said and confirmed, how many plans or ideas were forgotten or abandoned in this game?

The community is very divided about this.... Personally I don't like this idea (any of those: race change, class change, alliance change, etc.). But I can see this happening without making a major problem if they limit this race change for toon or account.

no, they have said in the recent podcasts, it IS coming soon.

I saw this podcast and they not said they will do for certain.

Robo_Hobo wrote: »

Ley wrote: »

I don't think I'll ever quite understand the whole "race change is lore breaking" argument. With all the crazy things that happen in Tamriel, someone finding a way to change their race wouldn't make my top 10 list.

Didn't someone already manage it? I can't remember where it was but wasn't there a quest where a Dunmer managed to transform himself into a khajiit because he liked them and wanted to be one? It might not have been a dunmer or khajiit, but pretty sure it was an elf to a beastrace.

I also can't remember if they succeded, but it was definitely a quest. It's been awhile.

Regardless, even without that, I just see it as gameplay/story segregation

Yep, it was a quest in Greenshade. We don't know if that was a mere disguise, a spell which would change only the exterior, if the passives or the racial characteristics were changed. Seems more a potions effect since you should bring to him the ingredients and it would make him looks like a Khajiit (and he conserves his voice, his identity, etc.). And we have a lot of examples of disguises able to change the appearance, but not exactly the race (we can disguise ourselves like a goblin, we have in Auridon a quest we can disguise as a Altmer to spy the Veiled Heritance and also in Greenshade Razum Dar disguise himself like the Queen, etc.). None of these exemples are able to refuse the fact that today, a race change, without any better explanation (like the use of the wabbajack) would be contrary to lore.

By the common understanding the only one(s) who could really change the essence of a being would be a Daedric Prince. Someone have suggested, some time ago, you could gain a token from Meridia doing Cadwell and/or Silver quests. That was an interesting idea.

In the alkir desert there's a kajit that sold people potions that transformed them into animals. In stormhaven there's an argonian who has you help her turn into a crocodile. There's a mages guild quest where drinking from a goblet turns people into goblins. someone else mentioned the wabajack. There's a couple cases of people transferring their souls into constructs. With stuff like that going on all over Tamriel, race change doesn't seem like that big of a deal.

I'm not a lore expert (I've played Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim a lot...,) but it seems all these examples are not racial changes but temporary/reversible effects of potions and spells, or mere disguises (goblins, monkeys, skeletons, even wisps, we all have these examples in ESO...). And most important, they didn't come from previous TES games. Racial changes should be something more powerful and fundamental, based on lore, for example, the Chimer becoming the Dunmer; the creation of the Orcs or the Falmer. You see the difference?

You're comparing circumstances that created a new race, to someone changing into a pre-existing race. I really don't see why a racial change must be as profound as the creation of a new race. I think one of the simplest most elegant solutions would be to swap bodies with someone using a soul gem to extract your soul and then place it into someone elses body. I'm sure the mages guild have tried stranger experiments.

Reversible or non-reversible, the effect remains the same and unless someone takes the steps to reverse the effects, then it may as well be permanent. All I'm saying, is that in a world where anything is seemingly possible, I don't see why a racial change wouldn't be.

Not the Mageguild, but necromancers done this quit offten. But the result was unstabel

edit:if i remember right, manimarco done this once

Gidorick wrote: »

Race Change is VERY dangerous. What stops ZOS from "rebalancing" racial passives every 6 months or so leading players to feeling "encouraged" to buy a race change from the Crown Store?

I'm not saying they would DO this, I'm saying it opens the door for abuse.

Oh, if they introduce race changes, I absolutely hope they do this! :-P

First, If I'm not mistaken nobody never said the effects of the Wabbajack are/were (always or only) temporaries.

Second, I think everyone here should agree that a racial change must be something more relevant and with more "lore based" than a mere changing of your disguise, right?

Third, I didn't say that would be lore breaking... I even gave you the example we have from another TES games; a creation and a changing of an entire race... And "lore breaking" was never the most important argument against the racial change. IMO it was always the weakest... They can do anything: it's their lore, is their creation.
The most important argument always was: would be a bad decision for the game. Wouldn't fix the racial imbalance, would be bad for the racial diversity, would not stimulate the reroll (keeping PVE players), would banalize the important decisions we all made, could create a "race of the moment" to buy, and a lot of other issues.