Another Perspective on Racial Passives...

Gidorick · May 2015

There seems to be many who want Racial Passives to be nerfed into oblivion, but I am one of the few that have a different perspective.

I hope ZOS allows races to continue to be diverse and different from one another. There should be substantial reasons to be one race or another. This will inevitably create what some people perceive as imbalance but in the Elder Scrolls Argonians swim much faster, Khajiit should be stealthy, Orc's shouldn't be magically adept, Nords should be tough, Wood Elfs should be good with bows and Altmer should be adept at magic.

That being said, players should be given the option to create customized characters that mixes racial passives. That way, a Stamina based player could have the Conditioning and Tough skills of an Imperial and the Adrenaline Rush and Exhilaration of a Redguard.

I have outlined this specific concept here: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/153977/eso-character-offspring-a-phylogenetics-concept/p1

The point is, Race should be a significant choice for a player and shouldn't be something that is mostly cosmetic. I would rather see a race change Crown Store service than see Racial Passives be nerfed beyond use.

Thoughts?

Micallef · May 2015

Gidorick wrote: »

There seems to be many who want Racial Passives to be nerfed into oblivion, but I am one of the few that have a different perspective.

I hope ZOS allows races to continue to be diverse and different from one another. There should be substantial reasons to be one race or another. This will inevitably create what some people perceive as imbalance but in the Elder Scrolls Argonians swim much faster, Khajiit should be stealthy, Orc's shouldn't be magically adept, Nords should be tough, Wood Elfs should be good with bows and Altmer should be adept at magic.

That being said, players should be given the option to create customized characters that mixes racial passives. That way, a Stamina based player could have the Conditioning and Tough skills of an Imperial and the Adrenaline Rush and Exhilaration of a Redguard.

I have outlined this specific concept here: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/153977/eso-character-offspring-a-phylogenetics-concept/p1

The point is, Race should be a significant choice for a player and shouldn't be something that is mostly cosmetic. I would rather see a race change Crown Store service than see Racial Passives be nerfed beyond use.

Thoughts?

What you got against Orcs anyhow? You gave something to every other race but take away from Orcs! Nerf all non-Orcs!

Seriously though, I like how races are distinct through more than just their visual attributes. Let nerf-cryers be nerf-cryers, as long as each race has the same amount of advantages. Selecting a race should have some meaning and while min/maxers will likely go for a limited few, I like the fact that I may be at a certain disadvantage if I select a certain race for a certain 'incompatible' role.

Gidorick · May 2015

lol. I did kind of pick on Orcs there, didn't I? Well, each race should have a play-style they are most suited for but that doesn't mean that they CAN'T play other ways. It's just that my Two Handed Stamina based Khajiit warrior is going to have a tough go of things.

Glurin · May 2015

Gidorick wrote: »

That being said, players should be given the option to create customized characters that mixes racial passives. That way, a Stamina based player could have the Conditioning and Tough skills of an Imperial and the Adrenaline Rush and Exhilaration of a Redguard.

Everything else I agree with, but custom mixed racial passives I strongly disagree with. Not only would this be a balance nightmare, but you'd essentially make the idea behind racial passives completely nonexistent.

IMO, what really needs to happen is for people to quit worrying about being min/maxed and for the game to quit rewarding it so much. A 10% bonus to stamina, for example, should be looked at as "Oh, that's a nice benefit." as opposed to "OMG I must have this specific passive for my stamina build or my build will be completely and utterly worthless! My DPS will go down a whole .003% without it! I won't even be able to kill level 1 mudcrabs! MUST HAVE ALL STAMINA THAT EXISTS!!!!"

RazzPitazz · May 2015

Moving passives would actually, inadvertently, destroy the uniqueness of said race. Just one example of how this would actually hurt rather than help; one dunmer passiv, increase max Stam and magikae + one imperial passive, increase max Stam and health. Dunmer would become stamina super sayajiin.
The passives do not need a complete overhaul, but they need to be equally useful seem if not in the same way.
Currently argonians have two mediocre passives, swimming not being one of them.

AngryNord · May 2015

Gidorick wrote: »

That being said, players should be given the option to create customized characters that mixes racial passives. That way, a Stamina based player could have the Conditioning and Tough skills of an Imperial and the Adrenaline Rush and Exhilaration of a Redguard.

No

Gidorick · May 2015

AngryNord wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

That being said, players should be given the option to create customized characters that mixes racial passives. That way, a Stamina based player could have the Conditioning and Tough skills of an Imperial and the Adrenaline Rush and Exhilaration of a Redguard.

No

I always appreciate insightful, thought out, well articulated feedback. Thank you @AngryNord for making those points. You've really given me a lot to think about.

Gidorick · May 2015

Glurin wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

That being said, players should be given the option to create customized characters that mixes racial passives. That way, a Stamina based player could have the Conditioning and Tough skills of an Imperial and the Adrenaline Rush and Exhilaration of a Redguard.

Everything else I agree with, but custom mixed racial passives I strongly disagree with. Not only would this be a balance nightmare, but you'd essentially make the idea behind racial passives completely nonexistent.

IMO, what really needs to happen is for people to quit worrying about being min/maxed and for the game to quit rewarding it so much. A 10% bonus to stamina, for example, should be looked at as "Oh, that's a nice benefit." as opposed to "OMG I must have this specific passive for my stamina build or my build will be completely and utterly worthless! My DPS will go down a whole .003% without it! I won't even be able to kill level 1 mudcrabs! MUST HAVE ALL STAMINA THAT EXISTS!!!!"

I agree that it would be best for players to stop worrying about the"balance" of racial passives bit I really don't think that is going to happen. The idea for mixing the passives would put the power in the hands of the player. Think your Argonian is balanced improperly? OK. now you have the opportunity to DO something about it.

One question I have is if people would be allowed to have 2 of the same passive if they were allowed to create mixed characters, since some passives are shared.

If you haven't already, take a look at that link @Glurin. I go into more detail about how that system would function. But you're right that it could just end up being a nightmare.

Hypertionb14_ESO · May 2015

seems like a topic intended purely to promote another topic.

Gidorick · May 2015

Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »

seems like a topic intended purely to promote another topic.

Yes... and no. My other topic is to suggest the mixing of races for the sake of the mixing of races. I made that suggestion two months or so ago. Since then, I have seen many, MANY posts on racial passives being imbalanced and wanting them removed, nerfed, whatever.

I thought it was important to put out the perspective that I don't think racial passives are imbalanced. I think they are fine the way they are. I do, however, recognize the fact that the specific passives might not appear to be balanced to some players and I'm suggesting my concept of mixed races as a solution to that problem.

The thread about mixed races wasn't initially presented as a solution to that problem, that's 1/2 of what this thread is doing. The other 1/2 is to put the perspective out there that not all of us think racials need rebalancing. Some of us think they are fine the way they are.

Junkogen · May 2015

I'll agree that Argonians should be stuck with increased swim speed if Imperials get stuck with the increased luck they had in Skyrim. I'm tired of other races getting the short end of the stick while Imperials got their racials completely changed and boosted for ESO.

Where's the outrage over Imperials' lore-breaking passives?

Aett_Thorn · May 2015

Junkogen wrote: »

I'll agree that Argonians should be stuck with increased swim speed if Imperials get stuck with the increased luck they had in Skyrim. I'm tired of other races getting the short end of the stick while Imperials got their racials completely changed and boosted for ESO.

Where's the outrage over Imperials' lore-breaking passives?

I think there is little true outrage because most people had to pay to get access to them. As such, there is sort of a feeling of entitlement that they should be better. If you had to pay for something and it was just so-so, people likely would have raged, even if they knew full well ahead of time what it was they were buying.

I would have been absolutely fine with Imperials getting a passive that gave them like 5/10/15% more gold from treasure chests and enemy drops instead of what they got.