Jbugz97 wrote: »

it would be nice if they would change one of vigor morph to magika. my magika nb with out resto staff
what you guys think

Why didn't you roll a Templar then?

In all seriousness, it feels like Magicka builds have access to a LOT of heals, whereas stamina builds have access to Vigor and Rally.

And now Magicka builds want to take one choice of Vigor away from stamina builds just because "it would be nice".

@Varicite

Why didn't you roll a Templar then?[/quote]


well NB was my first character and i just enjoy nb more then any other class and i could not see my self killing ppl with jesus bean hate that skill srry

Sotha_Sil wrote: »

Vigor is worse than Healing springs in terms of healing output just use healing springs instead

Btw, while we are at it, I think the morph with a healing boost on yourself is not that much interesting and needs rework.

The morph with a healing boost on yourself is the obvious choice for solo and small group play.
Imo the AoE part should be removed entirely, it makes no sense for me to heal a group with your stamina.
If the other morph was changed to magicka though, it could still have the AoE part. Then it's a heal magicka builds can use without a specific weapon or class, but not a very strong one as selfheal.

Vigor is NOT THAT GREAT OF A HEAL, you have access to all sorts of healing in the restoration staff tree, you can roll a Templar for heals. Leave Vigor alone, it's a decent stamina heal and a step in the right direction for those stamina players who long needed it.

Heals tons of damage over a short period of time, but it's not a burst heal to save you when you take tons of damage. We aren't eating senzu beans every time we pop it. And magicka builds don't need another strong HoT ontop of shielding and popping healing ward and regen.

Igneous --> Magicka Vigor on my DK? Yes Please! Want!

Huntler wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

Vigor is NOT THAT GREAT OF A HEAL, you have access to all sorts of healing in the restoration staff tree, you can roll a Templar for heals. Leave Vigor alone, it's a decent stamina heal and a step in the right direction for those stamina players who long needed it.

Heals tons of damage over a short period of time, but it's not a burst heal to save you when you take tons of damage. We aren't eating senzu beans every time we pop it. And magicka builds don't need another strong HoT ontop of shielding and popping healing ward and regen.

HEY GUYS, VIGOR IS A BAD HEAL DON'T USE IT. BUT SERIOUSLY MAGICKA BUILDS DON'T DESERVE IT ITS SO STRONG....


This is a good request and seems fair. It doesn't hurt stamina users in the slightest and lets a class like NB without a class heal use vigor even when not a stamina NB. As for those saying just use healing springs, there are a variety reasons even I would use a magicka vigor over healing springs. It isn't ground based thus can't be negated, also since it is on you it follows you wherever you go, 1 button press to activate instead of 2 for immediate reaction, huge radius morph (15m is ridiculously strong). Fire and forget, heal for a ton.... its pretty good.

Clowns saying it sucks... lol.

Strange that you would even mention a Magicka NB, since it can actually utilize Funnel Health, Sap Essence, and Refreshing Path together for actual healing on top of access to Resto staff.

It's STAMINA NB who can't use those skills for squat and are forced to use Rally / Vigor for heals.

See, it's like this: Magicka builds have access to 8 heals. Stamina builds have access to 2.

But now here are those Magicka builds asking to take a morph away from one of the 2 options that Stam builds have?

And that seems FAIR to you? lol, of course it does.

I mentioned magicka nightblades because the heals you listened aren't reliable or strong enough by comparison (so NBs claim). They have always wanted an actual heal. Its not taking anything away from a stamina build, you can only have one morph, why so protective? It doesn't make sense.

Because there are only 2 heals for stamina builds. And you want to take away any choice for which morph to use for 1 (HALF) of them.

If those heals aren't strong enough for a Magicka build, just what do you think they heal for on a Stam build?

Having access to 8 heals and then wanting to remove a choice from Stam builds who only have access to 2 heals simply because "Hey, I want that too" is what doesn't make sense, and just sounds plain greedy to me.

Magicka builds who WANT to heal have absolutely NO trouble doing so currently.

Varicite wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

Vigor is NOT THAT GREAT OF A HEAL, you have access to all sorts of healing in the restoration staff tree, you can roll a Templar for heals. Leave Vigor alone, it's a decent stamina heal and a step in the right direction for those stamina players who long needed it.

Heals tons of damage over a short period of time, but it's not a burst heal to save you when you take tons of damage. We aren't eating senzu beans every time we pop it. And magicka builds don't need another strong HoT ontop of shielding and popping healing ward and regen.

HEY GUYS, VIGOR IS A BAD HEAL DON'T USE IT. BUT SERIOUSLY MAGICKA BUILDS DON'T DESERVE IT ITS SO STRONG....


This is a good request and seems fair. It doesn't hurt stamina users in the slightest and lets a class like NB without a class heal use vigor even when not a stamina NB. As for those saying just use healing springs, there are a variety reasons even I would use a magicka vigor over healing springs. It isn't ground based thus can't be negated, also since it is on you it follows you wherever you go, 1 button press to activate instead of 2 for immediate reaction, huge radius morph (15m is ridiculously strong). Fire and forget, heal for a ton.... its pretty good.

Clowns saying it sucks... lol.

Strange that you would even mention a Magicka NB, since it can actually utilize Funnel Health, Sap Essence, and Refreshing Path together for actual healing on top of access to Resto staff.

It's STAMINA NB who can't use those skills for squat and are forced to use Rally / Vigor for heals.

See, it's like this: Magicka builds have access to 8 heals. Stamina builds have access to 2.

But now here are those Magicka builds asking to take a morph away from one of the 2 options that Stam builds have?

And that seems FAIR to you? lol, of course it does.

I mentioned magicka nightblades because the heals you listened aren't reliable or strong enough by comparison (so NBs claim). They have always wanted an actual heal. Its not taking anything away from a stamina build, you can only have one morph, why so protective? It doesn't make sense.

Because there are only 2 heals for stamina builds. And you want to take away any choice for which morph to use for 1 (HALF) of them.

If those heals aren't strong enough for a Magicka build, just what do you think they heal for on a Stam build?

Having access to 8 heals and then wanting to remove a choice from Stam builds who only have access to 2 heals simply because "Hey, I want that too" is what doesn't make sense, and just sounds plain greedy to me.

Magicka builds who WANT to heal have absolutely NO trouble doing so currently.

Yeah it just costs us one of our only 2 weapon slots so we can use a single ability.

You guys are always crying about "Shield Stacking". Well a Magicka morph of Vigor would certainly reduce the number of players running healing ward. I don't see why the hardest skill in the game to unlock should have a magicka element the same as a stamina element. It takes nothing away from stamina builds as you can only run a single morph anyways.

Varicite wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

You should not play a stamina build if you want to be a healer.

Don't think anybody said anything even remotely like this.

ToRelax wrote: »

That is not enough in most situtiations, so you need Rally, true. But it's certainly far more effective than any healing you get from NB and Sorc skill lines.

Hrm, so on the one hand you say that you need to use a specific weapon to actually sustain yourself as a stamina build. And believe me, those NB heals that "aren't good enough" are WORLDS better than they are for a stamina build.

But then on the other hand, you say that you want Vigor so that Magicka builds do not need to use a specific weapon to actually sustain themselves.

This does not make any sense whatsoever and comes across as kinda hypocritical.

Where did I say I wanted stamina builds be forced to use a two hand weapon to get their HoT and burst heal then?
In fact I find it very weird that you need it for that one ability, wich also happens to be the damage buff you want to use.
And no, NB heals are not good for anything but a Sap tank maybe. They just give extra sustain.

Varicite wrote: »

Well, I didn't ever say that you wanted the situation to be this way, but you seemed very accepting of the fact that Vigor alone isn't going to keep you up w/out a burst heal like Rally to help out.

But you also seemed unwilling to equip a Resto staff which is pretty much the Magicka equivalent of using a 2hander for Rally heals.

We can agree that NB heals are really not that good for anyone, though. I'm simply saying that they are WAY WORSE for a stamina build, and a Magicka NB still has access to Resto staff just like a Stam build has to use a 2hander.

If the major reason for wanting Vigor is to not have to use a resto staff at all to keep yourself alive, you may be disappointed w/ the results as soon as somebody decides to burst you. <.<

I would not even use that skill on my Sorc, but should I ever finish levelling my NB, I would use that with double one hand/shield.

Imdrefan wrote: »

Omfg... People are saying vigor is a bad heal. Love it.

If you actually think vigor is any better than rally, you must be blind. Vigor doesn't keep me alive when my healer dies outside of PvP, rally does. Vigor doesn't out heal burst damage, one doesn't simply pop vigor alone and eat damage.

Huntler wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

Vigor is NOT THAT GREAT OF A HEAL, you have access to all sorts of healing in the restoration staff tree, you can roll a Templar for heals. Leave Vigor alone, it's a decent stamina heal and a step in the right direction for those stamina players who long needed it.

Heals tons of damage over a short period of time, but it's not a burst heal to save you when you take tons of damage. We aren't eating senzu beans every time we pop it. And magicka builds don't need another strong HoT ontop of shielding and popping healing ward and regen.

HEY GUYS, VIGOR IS A BAD HEAL DON'T USE IT. BUT SERIOUSLY MAGICKA BUILDS DON'T DESERVE IT ITS SO STRONG....


This is a good request and seems fair. It doesn't hurt stamina users in the slightest and lets a class like NB without a class heal use vigor even when not a stamina NB. As for those saying just use healing springs, there are a variety reasons even I would use a magicka vigor over healing springs. It isn't ground based thus can't be negated, also since it is on you it follows you wherever you go, 1 button press to activate instead of 2 for immediate reaction, huge radius morph (15m is ridiculously strong). Fire and forget, heal for a ton.... its pretty good.

Clowns saying it sucks... lol.

You guys are vastly over fluffing the capabilities of this HoT. To even suggest however that magicka builds might need this skill on-top of the numerous healing and shielding options available is nonsense. "Oh but if magicka builds had access to this heal, maybe they wouldn't run Healing Ward hurr durr" no they'll just sacrifice another slot and continue running it.

Without touching vigor, on a stamina NB i achieved almost 4K HPS (in pve, i get that it isn't always viable in pvp) at max using all the NB healing class options and some weapon class skills (vigor don't come close to that, even with rally ticking). How are you gonna say swallow soul isn't good, a low cost nice damaging skill that also supplements your HP at the same time. That's a lot of incoming heals mostly using NB skills not optimized for stamina how does magicka NB not have options.

Vigor removes a lot of those skills from the equation yes, but it's not going to save you when you need a burst heal. So how is it any better than rally. The potential to heal more in a period of time will not beat rally's burst when it matters most. Look what Sypher does with just rally, dude 1vxs with his NB on the daily without vigor. And once he gets it, that won't change. It's still going to be those rally bursts that knock his HP up every now and then. At low stamina, it's rally you click and you forget about vigor. Look how hard he struggled with his DK finding a new build, even with vigor.

Ezareth wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

You guys are vastly over fluffing the capabilities of this HoT. To even suggest however that magicka builds might need this skill on-top of the numerous healing and shielding options available is nonsense. "Oh but if magicka builds had access to this heal, maybe they wouldn't run Healing Ward hurr durr" no they'll just sacrifice another slot and continue running it.

Without touching vigor, on a stamina NB i achieved almost 4K HPS (in pve, i get that it isn't always viable in pvp) at max using all the NB healing class options and some weapon class skills (vigor don't come close to that, even with rally ticking). How are you gonna say swallow soul isn't good, a low cost nice damaging skill that also supplements your HP at the same time. That's a lot of incoming heals mostly using NB skills not optimized for stamina how does magicka NB not have options.

Vigor removes a lot of those skills from the equation yes, but it's not going to save you when you need a burst heal. So how is it any better than rally. The potential to heal more in a period of time will not beat rally's burst when it matters most. Look what Sypher does with just rally, dude 1vxs with his NB on the daily without vigor. And once he gets it, that won't change. It's still going to be those rally bursts that knock his HP up every now and then. At low stamina, it's rally you click and you forget about vigor. Look how hard he struggled with his DK finding a new build, even with vigor.

Umm...you realize the entire point of healing ward is to *heal* you right? If you have a heal, even a HoT, you'd be a total moron to run Healing Ward as well unless you were trying to fill a support/group heal role. If you take damage to your health, refresh Hardened Ward, Cast vigor to top you off and you're good. No need to use a stupid resto staff just to be able to heal yourself.

Healing ward has multiple functions, the scaling shield and the potential heal. The name of the game is keeping your HP climbing not dropping, you aren't guaranteed the heal from ward and you aren't going to survive burst with a HoT like rapid regen or vigor alone. Magicka builds combine and survive, like stamina builds combine rally's burst and vigors HoT, with tactics like LOS or abilities like dark cloak. If you just ran healing ward or vigor alone, you'd be quite disappointed with both..as you spam hardened ward.

The benefit to healing ward and hardened ward is the stack, which enables you to survive some of the crazier burst damage in this game. At the same time you keep your HP climbing with rapid regen, it's a no brainer. I get why you'd not want to get stuck using restoration staff. I don't like getting stuck using 2H for rally, but we still need it.

OdinForge wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

You guys are vastly over fluffing the capabilities of this HoT. To even suggest however that magicka builds might need this skill on-top of the numerous healing and shielding options available is nonsense. "Oh but if magicka builds had access to this heal, maybe they wouldn't run Healing Ward hurr durr" no they'll just sacrifice another slot and continue running it.

Without touching vigor, on a stamina NB i achieved almost 4K HPS (in pve, i get that it isn't always viable in pvp) at max using all the NB healing class options and some weapon class skills (vigor don't come close to that, even with rally ticking). How are you gonna say swallow soul isn't good, a low cost nice damaging skill that also supplements your HP at the same time. That's a lot of incoming heals mostly using NB skills not optimized for stamina how does magicka NB not have options.

Vigor removes a lot of those skills from the equation yes, but it's not going to save you when you need a burst heal. So how is it any better than rally. The potential to heal more in a period of time will not beat rally's burst when it matters most. Look what Sypher does with just rally, dude 1vxs with his NB on the daily without vigor. And once he gets it, that won't change. It's still going to be those rally bursts that knock his HP up every now and then. At low stamina, it's rally you click and you forget about vigor. Look how hard he struggled with his DK finding a new build, even with vigor.

Umm...you realize the entire point of healing ward is to *heal* you right? If you have a heal, even a HoT, you'd be a total moron to run Healing Ward as well unless you were trying to fill a support/group heal role. If you take damage to your health, refresh Hardened Ward, Cast vigor to top you off and you're good. No need to use a stupid resto staff just to be able to heal yourself.

Healing ward has multiple functions, the scaling shield and the potential heal. The name of the game is keeping your HP climbing not dropping, you aren't guaranteed the heal from ward and you aren't going to survive burst with a HoT like rapid regen or vigor alone. Magicka builds combine and survive, like stamina builds combine rally's burst and vigors HoT, with tactics like LOS or abilities like dark cloak. If you just ran healing ward or vigor alone, you'd be quite disappointed with both..as you spam hardened ward.

The benefit to healing ward and hardened ward is the stack, which enables you to survive some of the crazier burst damage in this game. At the same time you keep your HP climbing with rapid regen, it's a no brainer. I get why you'd not want to get stuck using restoration staff. I don't like getting stuck using 2H for rally, but we still need it.

DezIsDead wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

Imdrefan wrote: »

Omfg... People are saying vigor is a bad heal. Love it.

If you actually think vigor is any better than rally, you must be blind. Vigor doesn't keep me alive when my healer dies outside of PvP, rally does. Vigor doesn't out heal burst damage, one doesn't simply pop vigor alone and eat damage.

Huntler wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

Vigor is NOT THAT GREAT OF A HEAL, you have access to all sorts of healing in the restoration staff tree, you can roll a Templar for heals. Leave Vigor alone, it's a decent stamina heal and a step in the right direction for those stamina players who long needed it.

Heals tons of damage over a short period of time, but it's not a burst heal to save you when you take tons of damage. We aren't eating senzu beans every time we pop it. And magicka builds don't need another strong HoT ontop of shielding and popping healing ward and regen.

HEY GUYS, VIGOR IS A BAD HEAL DON'T USE IT. BUT SERIOUSLY MAGICKA BUILDS DON'T DESERVE IT ITS SO STRONG....


This is a good request and seems fair. It doesn't hurt stamina users in the slightest and lets a class like NB without a class heal use vigor even when not a stamina NB. As for those saying just use healing springs, there are a variety reasons even I would use a magicka vigor over healing springs. It isn't ground based thus can't be negated, also since it is on you it follows you wherever you go, 1 button press to activate instead of 2 for immediate reaction, huge radius morph (15m is ridiculously strong). Fire and forget, heal for a ton.... its pretty good.

Clowns saying it sucks... lol.

You guys are vastly over fluffing the capabilities of this HoT. To even suggest however that magicka builds might need this skill on-top of the numerous healing and shielding options available is nonsense. "Oh but if magicka builds had access to this heal, maybe they wouldn't run Healing Ward hurr durr" no they'll just sacrifice another slot and continue running it.

Without touching vigor, on a stamina NB i achieved almost 4K HPS (in pve, i get that it isn't always viable in pvp) at max using all the NB healing class options and some weapon class skills (vigor don't come close to that, even with rally ticking). How are you gonna say swallow soul isn't good, a low cost nice damaging skill that also supplements your HP at the same time. That's a lot of incoming heals mostly using NB skills not optimized for stamina how does magicka NB not have options.

Vigor removes a lot of those skills from the equation yes, but it's not going to save you when you need a burst heal. So how is it any better than rally. The potential to heal more in a period of time will not beat rally's burst when it matters most. Look what Sypher does with just rally, dude 1vxs with his NB on the daily without vigor. And once he gets it, that won't change. It's still going to be those rally bursts that knock his HP up every now and then. At low stamina, it's rally you click and you forget about vigor. Look how hard he struggled with his DK finding a new build, even with vigor.

no if i had a magicka morph of vigor i wouldnt run a resto staff at all. Do you Like running 2h for rally? no? well i havent liked running a flipping resto staff for a year. all anyone is saying is give magicka sorcs and NB's a magicka morph so we dont have to run resto staffs to heal ourselves. it was an idea that you seem very opposed to because A) Its not a great heal, B ) Its not a burst heal C)because its a decent stamina heal for players who needed it for so long. Dude contradict yourself much? just admit your selfish and didnt share your toys in preschool with the other kids.

"no if i had a magicka morph of vigor i wouldnt run a resto staff at all. Do you Like running 2h for rally? no? well i havent liked running a flipping resto staff for a year."

This is what you call hearsay, would be the same as if i said give stamina hardened ward and i won't also use dark cloak as a NB i promise......i'm not being selfish, it's not my game. You have always had more options available to you regardless of class than stamina.

lol then you saying people would also run vigor with resto staff is "hearsay". Magicka HAD more options because stam used to be poop, now as a Sorc OR a mag NB you either run resto staff for heals or try to be a sap tank.