What is an appropriate amount of experience for each veteran rank?

Faugaun · May 2015

200k or less

Another thought while we are taking about removing VR, back in Feb/Mar I was thinking (and I think a lot of us were) that removing VR would be a pain in the butt. The general logic back then was: ZoS will have to adjust all gear, consumables etc.. That have VR requiremwnts.

Well I've been thinking about that and I don't necessarily agree, leave the materials the way they are, leave the crafting the way it is, just change the VRX to Level 50 and be done with it....so their are multiple level 50 crafting tiers, they all make level 50 items but higher tiers provide different benefits.

Like maybe for level 1-49 you can craft sets with any number of trait requirements, but for the level 50 gear different sets would require different level 50 mats (the different vr level mats) and higher mats would require more skill to make. For food enchants etc...just leave it as a tiered post 50 system...but make higher end mats more rare to find and lower tier more common.

Faugaun · May 2015

200k or less

zeitzbachrwb17_ESO wrote: »

Faugaun wrote: »

What we think would be best (I think she agrees, lol) is that 1-50 should remain the same then after you beat the game the other 10 zones from the other factions should just unlock and you can go to any zone and do any quest...secondly these newly unlocked zones should scale your character to an appropriate strength for the content (either up or down, probably based on how many CP you have). This would allow the entire world to be accessible to you. Additionally your own faction should scale you down to appropriate strength for the zones so you can play with lower strength (level) friends without ruining the experience.....I dunno its a tall order but the current vr1-10 system is broken (my opinion) and craglorn (vr11-14) is broken.

THe reason down-scale works really well in Gw2 is because there's no real "EXP" system in that game. Every mobs give X% instead of flat amount so whatever you do, you are grinding at a same rate. Plus, overgrinding earns you no advantage beside random skill point to burn for clovers. What earn you the advantage though are the dailies that are not even near fun to do.

IT won't work in ESO because they will just go and nerf every possible down-scaled leveling area and really, no one likes to be weaker. Sometime, I grind somewhere because I want to rush to my next set of gear and just deal even more damage and heal that I can just solo everything with ease so I can proceed to the next map. Low number and being limited never makes anyone feel good.

I never played gw2 and don't care what worked or did not work there. I'm interested in what can be done in ESO to improve things.I do know with current VR I'm not interested in going through the vr ranks, and if I'm not then others are not. That is not good.

zeitzbachrwb17_ESO · May 2015

Faugaun wrote: »

I never played gw2 and don't care what worked or did not work there. I'm interested in what can be done in ESO to improve things.I do know with current VR I'm not interested in going through the vr ranks, and if I'm not then others are not. That is not good.

With CP around, there's really no point in caring about proceeding with VR rank beside to play in Craglorn or DSA which isn't really worth it unless you can get enough friends for it.

While you can say "I'm not interested in grinding through VR ranks so it's not good.", the same can be said in reverse. I for one do have fun grinding through and going to area that can be used to gain higher experience to make my char even stronger through higher level exp sources. Sadly, this was but an illusion produced by vr 1 to 9 contents because the whole thing backtracked starting at vr 10 and reaches the lowest point at vr 14.

Vr 1 to 9 isn't really that harsh. We just feel bad because we barely make any progression if we only look at the VR. However, if you switch and just look at the CP level instead, you will see that the CP is the end-game leveling now, not VR and to be restricted from leveling the CP efficiently in various manners after reaching VR 14 is a fault in the current game design of progression.

Nazon_Katts · May 2015

2000k or more

And raise XP gains in vet zones accordingly so there's a way to earn decent CP on your way through.

Faugaun · May 2015

200k or less

zeitzbachrwb17_ESO wrote: »

Faugaun wrote: »

I never played gw2 and don't care what worked or did not work there. I'm interested in what can be done in ESO to improve things.I do know with current VR I'm not interested in going through the vr ranks, and if I'm not then others are not. That is not good.

With CP around, there's really no point in caring about proceeding with VR rank beside to play in Craglorn or DSA which isn't really worth it unless you can get enough friends for it.

While you can say "I'm not interested in grinding through VR ranks so it's not good.", the same can be said in reverse. I for one do have fun grinding through and going to area that can be used to gain higher experience to make my char even stronger through higher level exp sources. Sadly, this was but an illusion produced by vr 1 to 9 contents because the whole thing backtracked starting at vr 10 and reaches the lowest point at vr 14.

Vr 1 to 9 isn't really that harsh. We just feel bad because we barely make any progression if we only look at the VR. However, if you switch and just look at the CP level instead, you will see that the CP is the end-game leveling now, not VR and to be restricted from leveling the CP efficiently in various manners after reaching VR 14 is a fault in the current game design of progression.

This is exactly why I feel vr exp requurement should be reduced (or better thrown out the window, but they want to let the game breath and progress this change slowly).and open all of tamriel to everyone. Further let all end level characters from all factions interact in pve areas.

Faugaun · May 2015

200k or less

Nazon_Katts wrote: »

And raise XP gains in vet zones accordingly so there's a way to earn decent CP on your way through.

I actually think that the current cp rate is fine I just wish I could store more enlightenment than 12 days.

zeitzbachrwb17_ESO · May 2015

Faugaun wrote: »

Nazon_Katts wrote: »

And raise XP gains in vet zones accordingly so there's a way to earn decent CP on your way through.

I actually think that the current cp rate is fine I just wish I could store more enlightenment than 12 days.

It's fine VR 1 to 10.
It's not after that.

Vr 1-10, my random pull can earn me 400k exp an hour almost anywhere.

Vr 11+ is when the amount of exp you can earn takes a huge hit, mobs becomes a lot more annoying. It's better though if you are a Domino or Daggerfail because myheartforEbonheart has a good spot for pulling and so is daggerfall. Even so, the exp you gain is still bad and every other location outside Cyrodilli are horribad as well with reduced base exp.

Cody · May 2015

1000k <---Current experience requirement

fine as it is

LEGENDARYYY · May 2015

1000k <---Current experience requirement

It's ok as it is. I'm grinding two alts through vr atm, doing pledges, etc etc.

TheShadowScout · May 2015

1000k <---Current experience requirement

zeitzbachrwb17_ESO wrote: »

It's fine VR 1 to 10.
It's not after that.

True, but that's not a problem with VR costs, but with lack of good content post Cadwells.

Craglorn is there, yes, but needs groupyness, and many people find time coordinating with others to do the quests there difficult. And the only other options are cyrodil dailies, dungeon runs, and grinding, neither of which are -that- great when you just want to take your alt to V14 ...
So, the real problem V11-14 is the lack of V11-V14 solo zones for those that for whatever reason find it difficult to get some people together to do craglorn with them...

Faugaun · May 2015

200k or less

zeitzbachrwb17_ESO wrote: »

Faugaun wrote: »

Nazon_Katts wrote: »

And raise XP gains in vet zones accordingly so there's a way to earn decent CP on your way through.

I actually think that the current cp rate is fine I just wish I could store more enlightenment than 12 days.

It's fine VR 1 to 10.
It's not after that.

Vr 1-10, my random pull can earn me 400k exp an hour almost anywhere.

Vr 11+ is when the amount of exp you can earn takes a huge hit, mobs becomes a lot more annoying. It's better though if you are a Domino or Daggerfail because myheartforEbonheart has a good spot for pulling and so is daggerfall. Even so, the exp you gain is still bad and every other location outside Cyrodilli are horribad as well with reduced base exp.

Where are you getting 400k per hour?

UrQuan · May 2015

1000k <---Current experience requirement

I'm currently leveling 6 different VR characters through Cadwell's zones, and I think it's fine as is at 1,000,000. At the rate I'm gaining XP, it seems like by the time I'm done all of the gold zones, my characters (none of whom were VR before the amount of XP/level was changed to 1,000,000) should all be VR12 without grinding. The it'll be on to Craglorn and doing a bunch of Cyrodiil PVE (or to new content if it's out by then). My highest level right now is VR7 maybe a third of the way through the last silver zone.

Faugaun · May 2015

200k or less

UrQuan wrote: »

I'm currently leveling 6 different VR characters through Cadwell's zones, and I think it's fine as is at 1,000,000. At the rate I'm gaining XP, it seems like by the time I'm done all of the gold zones, my characters (none of whom were VR before the amount of XP/level was changed to 1,000,000) should all be VR12 without grinding. The it'll be on to Craglorn and doing a bunch of Cyrodiil PVE (or to new content if it's out by then). My highest level right now is VR7 maybe a third of the way through the last silver zone.

What faction are you on?

Sublime · May 2015

200k or less

I'm against levels and any form of grinding. In the best case I'd have everything available right from the get go (maybe gate certain areas based on storylines, i.e. you can only enter coldharbour if you've done the Main Story quest for your alliance).

The_Drexill · May 2015

600k

I voted 600k, but wouldn't be opposed to closer to 400. I leveled a VR14 prior to the grinding nerfs and did it pretty quickly- maybe 2 weeks. I leveled a VR14 after all the nerfs... did tons of boring quests and grinded for days. Ended up paying someone to finish off the last 4 for me because it was that, or quit.

Faugaun · May 2015

200k or less

The_Drexill wrote: »

I voted 600k, but wouldn't be opposed to closer to 400. I leveled a VR14 prior to the grinding nerfs and did it pretty quickly- maybe 2 weeks. I leveled a VR14 after all the nerfs... did tons of boring quests and grinded for days. Ended up paying someone to finish off the last 4 for me because it was that, or quit.

That speaks volumes, thanks for sharing

Sublime wrote: »

I'm against levels and any form of grinding. In the best case I'd have everything available right from the get go (maybe gate certain areas based on storylines, i.e. you can only enter coldharbour if you've done the Main Story quest for your alliance).

The Secret World was (is) essentially like this...you were limited by skills you had unlocked, gear, and a NPC gateway fight (to unlock the equivolent of veteran dungeons here. Everything else you could just walk in and do.

GaldorP · May 2015

1000k <---Current experience requirement

I think more important than the amount of XP needed for each veteran rank is is the amount of time it should take to reach the next veteran rank with "normal gameplay" and balancing out different playstyles so they all allow to earn XP at about the same rate.

For this the following changes would be needed:

- Greatly increase respawn times for areas where a ton of monsters are very close together to "fix" the few grindspots in the game that currently allow you to gain XP much faster than any other activity in the game
- Offer much better XP rewards for repeatable group quests in Craglorn
- Increase the XP reward for completing trials and group veteran dungeons (not first time completion; XP for every single run)
- Offer daily solo quests in PvE zones
- Increase the XP rewards for PvP in a way it can't be exploited to powerlevel but is a reliable source for XP progress even if you aren't a pro PvPer
- Add a PvE zone where VR 14 character have no XP penalty (lower level VR characters right now can gain XP 50% faster in solo zones than VR 14 characters)!

I think 5-10 hours of "normal gameplay" for each veteran rank is fine.

(Edit: For reference, I levelled 2 characters from VR 1 to VR 14 since Update 6 has been released [mostly by questing and completing solo zones; a bit of grinding from VR 10/12 to VR 14]).

Yinmaigao · May 2015

400k

I'm surprised I haven't seen anyone say this yet, but I think 400K would be a good mark.

That way the first few levels line up with your Champion points cleanly and people have a reasonable expectation for how fast their character will progress even after they are "done leveling".

The biggest problem with ANY changes, however, is that we need a new zone for post Cadwell's Gold to keep progressing max level characters.

Anyone ever decide to change specs at V14 and have to go through the god-aweful experience of grinding for ~8hrs in the V10 zone just to try and level Destruction staff just to get it to 35?

There is no "catch-up" mechanism for people who decide to change their playstyle at max level, and that is a shame.

Romo · May 2015

200k or less

I voted 200 or less because it would be the quickest way to eliminate the VR grind and get to VR14.

It would make the run up to the final VR point about as quick and possibly as fun as 1-50.

It would give all the "new" VR14 peeps almost as much stat increase as the ones who don't want to be nerfed, if VR levels are eliminated or nerfed.

And would decrease the amount of time for the tedious re-grind for any alts.

The above assumes(bad I know) that with the decrease in needed XP, Zos doesn't decrease the awarded XP for mobs and Quest completion.

nastuug · May 2015

600k

Based on my experience in select grinding zones not mentioned on forums, I'd have to say 600k would be ideal. Can already pull 400-600k/hr grinding atm.

timborggrenlarsenb16_ESO · May 2015

4 mill as for champion system alt less, the xp rate is so easy as it is now.

Faugaun · May 2015

200k or less

@GaldorP Thanks for the ideas, I like all of them actually, I don't agree with your mark on experience as increasing exp also increases cp gain, my view is that cp gain is where it needs to be but VR need to be adjusted. Also I'm more on the 3-5 hour normal play per vr which my recent experience has not produced ...specifically my recent experience is mostly dungeons.

In dungeons the time to find a group (I realize sometimes it's quicker cause you are or have the healer and tank....other times are slower....I'm not sure how you balance it) then the time to complete ....the other day we did a dungeon and our group got stuck on a boss for about 10 wipes (the incendiary beetles fight, with a vampire healer, we did it the night before with a different healer, rest of the players were the same but two of the characters were different and cleared no issues). This took resetijg and reevaluating our strategy and tweaking our builds and extended the dungeon time a lot...about 30k exp towards my vetrank for an hour long dungeon run. But the previous run was probably only 30 min and got about 80k exp because I have the quest on the first one and we didn't get hung anywhere. But assuming I got that quest on every run even on 30 min runs with no problems (with bosses, with players going afk, with downtime between dungeon resets, with finding a group, with replacing members as they leave...etc....just 13 consecutive no down time perfect runs with quest reward for each one)...it is still 6 hours per vr. Now add in the plethora of delays that could occur... This ideal 6 hour level ...which cannot occur because you can only do 15 dungoens with quest completion ....turns into 30k exp ever hour (or more with other delays)...if you do that math then it is 33+ hours per vr level. This is frustratingingly slow because multiplied by 14 levels...that is 466 hours of play to get from vr1 to vr14 with dungeons. Thats almost 12, 40-hour weeks....to level through vr doing dungeons...god forbid I'm a casual that likes dungeons and only play an hour or two each day....that might be a year or more before I finish.

@Yinmaigao thank for the addition, I might suggest PvP for this purpose ...attacking players with level skills fairly painlessly (last time I tried) and the scaled up VR12 NPCs in cyrodil should help also.

Romo wrote: »

The above assumes(bad I know) that with the decrease in needed XP, Zos doesn't decrease the awarded XP for mobs and Quest completion.

Thanks @Romo this really needed to be stated a reduction is required exp while not reducing the rewarded exp

@nastuug So you would place the minimum time to level at about 1-1.5 hours (basically someone doing the ideal things focusing on levelling). I have no idea where you are pulling 400k an hour currently

Thanks for your input!

timborggrenlarsenb16_ESO wrote: »

4 mill as for champion system alt less, the xp rate is so easy as it is now.

@timborggrenlarsenb16_ESO 4 million per VR level? And leave current exp gains how they are? I'm honestly blown away by this! Are you just farming great spots? How long it take you to level at 1 million? Are you the type that wants vr levels to take 100 hours per level? Would love more explanation from you as apparently i am doing something wrong or you like something vastly different than myself. Thanks for expressing your view, I look forward tomfuerher insight from you.

Trollwut · May 2015

200k or less

Veteran leveling killed the game for me.

It just takes soooo long and you don't get a real effort from it.

I would like to level MUCH more easy, but still would play every quest line. It's just that I'm using the same character since beta, because I don't have the mood to level again. I didn't even get my main to maximum level.

Faugaun · May 2015

200k or less

@Trollwut thanks for your input.

nastuug · May 2015

600k

Faugaun wrote: »

@nastuug So you would place the minimum time to level at about 1-1.5 hours (basically someone doing the ideal things focusing on levelling). I have no idea where you are pulling 400k an hour currently Thanks for your input!

@Faugaun I would place it at about 1 hour per level grinding, yes. For me, that would be a 13 hour grind from VR1 to VR14. Considering that most players wouldn't be grinding, I feel that would be quite a sufficient/balanced number.

AlnilamE · May 2015

1000k <---Current experience requirement

I'm not sure why people think it should take 3-5 hours to get a VR, since each VR is equivalent to about 10 normal levels, but whatever.

My biggest issue with all these "Change VR XP" threads is this:

One of the reasons why we haven't had any new content in a while is because ZOS spent a huge amount of development hours creating and fine-tuning the Champion System so that they can remove veteran ranks. This is still ongoing until they completely remove them.

Any modifications to the system between now and the removal would waste even more development hours that could be going towards new content. I don't want that. I want new content.

That is all.

nastuug · May 2015

600k

AlnilamE wrote: »

I'm not sure why people think it should take 3-5 hours to get a VR, since each VR is equivalent to about 10 normal levels, but whatever.

My biggest issue with all these "Change VR XP" threads is this:

One of the reasons why we haven't had any new content in a while is because ZOS spent a huge amount of development hours creating and fine-tuning the Champion System so that they can remove veteran ranks. This is still ongoing until they completely remove them.

Any modifications to the system between now and the removal would waste even more development hours that could be going towards new content. I don't want that. I want new content.

That is all.

@AlnilamE You're meaning 3 - 5 hr per VR? Cuz, we can do that now... Can currently run 2.5 - 3hr per VR grinding. It would be nice to see it balanced to 3 - 5hr obtainable through questing though.

Faugaun · May 2015

200k or less

nastuug wrote: »

Faugaun wrote: »

@nastuug So you would place the minimum time to level at about 1-1.5 hours (basically someone doing the ideal things focusing on levelling). I have no idea where you are pulling 400k an hour currently Thanks for your input!

@Faugaun I would place it at about 1 hour per level grinding, yes. For me, that would be a 13 hour grind from VR1 to VR14. Considering that most players wouldn't be grinding, I feel that would be quite a sufficient/balanced number.

@nastuug thanks for clarifying and thanks again for the input...whish I knew your grinds

@AlnilamE I agree with your premise my problem is that the vr are here, they are currently (after all the needs) very painful. There is no timeline for removal of vet ranks, presumably consoles are launching with them, which indicates to me that they may never be removed.

With the cp syatem in place the vr system serves little purpose and is hardly the carrot, thats the cp system.

That said adjusting 14 numbers is fairly quick and easy...I doubt it will impact new content production.

UrQuan · May 2015

1000k <---Current experience requirement

Faugaun wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

I'm currently leveling 6 different VR characters through Cadwell's zones, and I think it's fine as is at 1,000,000. At the rate I'm gaining XP, it seems like by the time I'm done all of the gold zones, my characters (none of whom were VR before the amount of XP/level was changed to 1,000,000) should all be VR12 without grinding. The it'll be on to Craglorn and doing a bunch of Cyrodiil PVE (or to new content if it's out by then). My highest level right now is VR7 maybe a third of the way through the last silver zone.

What faction are you on?

All of them. My VR7 is DC and about a third of the way through Reaper's March (the final Silver zone for him - I expect him to hit VR8 about when I start on the Gold zones), my VR5 is AD and about halfway through Shadowfen (at this rate I expect him to hit VR8 about when he starts the Gold zones too). My other VR characters (1 is EP, 1 is DC, 2 are AD) are all VR1, and the EP character is about to hit VR2 after only finishing Stros M'Kai and Betnikh, while the others are about halfway to VR2 and just about to start the starter Silver zones.

Faugaun · May 2015

200k or less

UrQuan wrote: »

Faugaun wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

I'm currently leveling 6 different VR characters through Cadwell's zones, and I think it's fine as is at 1,000,000. At the rate I'm gaining XP, it seems like by the time I'm done all of the gold zones, my characters (none of whom were VR before the amount of XP/level was changed to 1,000,000) should all be VR12 without grinding. The it'll be on to Craglorn and doing a bunch of Cyrodiil PVE (or to new content if it's out by then). My highest level right now is VR7 maybe a third of the way through the last silver zone.

What faction are you on?

All of them. My VR7 is DC and about a third of the way through Reaper's March (the final Silver zone for him - I expect him to hit VR8 about when I start on the Gold zones), my VR5 is AD and about halfway through Shadowfen (at this rate I expect him to hit VR8 about when he starts the Gold zones too). My other VR characters (1 is EP, 1 is DC, 2 are AD) are all VR1, and the EP character is about to hit VR2 after only finishing Stros M'Kai and Betnikh, while the others are about halfway to VR2 and just about to start the starter Silver zones.

Maybe its just my current activities then. I've been playing 2 vr1 on ep and a vr4 on ep but mostly doing 4 man dungeons and the progress is abysmally slow. Also doing craglorn on my vr14 ad trying to fins nirncrux...which is apparently non existamt these days...the cp hardly comes in there either ...but cp is not too bad, its the vr thats frustrating to me. And I'm not currently interested in doing questing (maybe imqill be again...idk).