Animation canceling

Sav72 · May 2015

What are you noobs going to do when they fix this? Quit game ? LOL

5 attacks in 1.6sec

And no its not my IPS trust me....In case you do not know............Internet Service Provider

Drazhar14 · May 2015

Are they actually going to fix this? I thought they said a while ago they are leaving it as part of the game.

PKMN12 · May 2015

they have already said they are not going to fix it, first off

also, it is an unintentional side effect (That the devs have said they actually did not mind at all) that is impossible to fix without majorly effecting how combat works, like adding a global cooldown.

DCUO has the same thing, and it has been in the game for years now.

Araxleon · May 2015

1. They said they arent gonna fix it
2. Do you just assume some people are good just because of this? not everything is animation canceling hell sometimes its BAD to animation cancel (in PVP)
3.Its just gonna make the game more predictable and slower...Like really slow.
4. Be grateful for animation canceling because then you would probably be getting 2 shot from a 2H stam build during the cast time of a shield (or anything else).

Obscure · May 2015

PKMN12 wrote: »

they have already said they are not going to fix it, first off

also, it is an unintentional side effect (That the devs have said they actually did not mind at all) that is impossible possible but time consuming to fix without majorly effecting how combat works, like adding a global cooldown cast time equivalent to a skills animation like most any other development studio does.

Edited errors.

P.S. it's a bug they are unwilling to fix so they labeled it a "feature of ESO's combat system"... it's flat out lazy design, call it what it is. I'm fine with it, but it's effin' lazy to get an unintended result and deliberately leave it in, sacrificing the actual creative vision in the name of ones own ineptitude.

PKMN12 · May 2015

Obscure wrote: »

PKMN12 wrote: »

they have already said they are not going to fix it, first off

also, it is an unintentional side effect (That the devs have said they actually did not mind at all) that is impossible possible but time consuming to fix without majorly effecting how combat works, like adding a global cooldown cast time equivalent to a skills animation like most any other development studio does.

Edited errors.

P.S. it's a bug they are unwilling to fix so they labeled it a "feature of ESO's combat system"... it's flat out lazy design, call it what it is. I'm fine with it, but it's effin' lazy to get an unintended result and deliberately leave it in, sacrificing the actual creative vision in the name of ones own ineptitude.

then you want nothing to be instant and everything to have a cast time.....which changes how combat works A LOT. even then, weapon swings would still be able to to canceled.

so nope, there are no errors in my post, it is inevitable to have this with the type of game play they are using.

Obscure · May 2015

PKMN12 wrote: »

Obscure wrote: »

PKMN12 wrote: »

they have already said they are not going to fix it, first off

also, it is an unintentional side effect (That the devs have said they actually did not mind at all) that is impossible possible but time consuming to fix without majorly effecting how combat works, like adding a global cooldown cast time equivalent to a skills animation like most any other development studio does.

Edited errors.

P.S. it's a bug they are unwilling to fix so they labeled it a "feature of ESO's combat system"... it's flat out lazy design, call it what it is. I'm fine with it, but it's effin' lazy to get an unintended result and deliberately leave it in, sacrificing the actual creative vision in the name of ones own ineptitude.

then you want nothing to be instant and everything to have a cast time.....which changes how combat works A LOT. even then, weapon swings would still be able to to canceled.

so nope, there are no errors in my post, it is inevitable to have this with the type of game play they are using.

The original Guild Wars did an excellent job of creating a game in which every skill had a cast time, and yes, it changes combat, particularly PvP, into a system in which skilled interrupts play a major roll. I have no problem with SKILL cancelling (I.e. you cancel the entire action, animation and effect), but ANIMATION cancelling which renders my character doing some freakish epileptic seizure dance that maximises my DPS without anything the on screen avatar does indicating anything that would remotely resemble fighting... well, fighting anything other than what seems to be a possession by angry spirits in some bad acid trip.

Seriously, its foolish. Again, I'm fine with it being in, I've made my peace with it, but it's clearly bad design. So yes, you would still be able to do the seizure wiggle of animation cancelling regardless, but SKILL cancelling would render the act just as ineffective as such a raving lunatic technique actually is. You'd have to actually pay attention to skill animations, cast times, and be sure to cover your casting when fighting a skilled interrupt user. Change yes, but don't presume change is bad, adding skill to the equation is a good thing, and long overdue in ESO's no-skill-thrill combat design.

PKMN12 · May 2015

Obscure wrote: »

adding skill to the equation is a good thing, and long overdue in ESO's no-skill-thrill combat design.

um, sorry to break it to you, skill canceling requires MORE skill then not having it, as it requires being good with timing and knowledge of when/which skill can be canceled.

Am i a huge fan of it? No, but guess what, DCUO is older then ESO, and has the same combat system, with animation canceling being a big part as well.

heck, there are some trials in THIS game that basically REQUIRE at least some animation canceling to complete well.

Prizax · May 2015

Sav72 wrote: »

What are you noobs going to do when they fix this? Quit game ? LOL

5 attacks in 1.6sec

And no its not my IPS trust me....In case you do not know............Internet Service Provider

you wrote "IPS" and it's "ISP"

on the IT field IPS would be Intrusion Prevention System... :P

Obscure · May 2015

PKMN12 wrote: »

Obscure wrote: »

adding skill to the equation is a good thing, and long overdue in ESO's no-skill-thrill combat design.

um, sorry to break it to you, skill canceling requires MORE skill then not having it, as it requires being good with timing and knowledge of when/which skill can be canceled.

Am i a huge fan of it? No, but guess what, DCUO is older then ESO, and has the same combat system, with animation canceling being a big part as well.

heck, there are some trials in THIS game that basically REQUIRE at least some animation canceling to complete well.

Don't conflate SKILL cancelling with ANIMATION cancelling. If we had SKILL cancelling, this thread wouldn't exist, it's just how games function intuitively (if I cancel the skill it cancels the entire action, including the effect). We however have ANIMATION cancelling, which is very different, and not an intuitive function (if I cancel the animation it doesn't cancel the entire action, just the animation and not the effect), which directly conflicts with a minimalist UI design approach, as ESO attempts and fabulously fails at (I.e. you can't tell when you hit intuitively, you must rely on the UI, specifically the target's health bar).

DCUO is in fact older, the original Guild Wars is even older, but only one of those two games was heralded as a magnificent achievement in combat design...guess which one

Emma_Overload · May 2015

Sav72 wrote: »

What are you noobs going to do when they fix this? Quit game ? LOL

5 attacks in 1.6sec

And no its not my IPS trust me....In case you do not know............Internet Service Provider

I can't believe people are still complaining about this issue that's been explained over and over and over since April 2014. Animation cancelling is necessary to keep the responsive feel of ESO's fast paced combat. Do you really want everything in the game to have an excruciating long cooldown? If you want a sluggish, turn-based game, there are plenty of other MMOs that may be right for you.

Rust_in_Peace · May 2015

Guild Wars was a fun game but it was also a nightmare to balance. The kind of skill interrupts that existed would be impossible in ESO because you didn't control your auto attacks, couldn't bash, dodge or block anything either. ESO has a lot more to it than just your skillbar and that's what makes it unique from a lot of other games. Stop trying to look back at games that are +10 years old as an example of what everything in the future should be like.

Moonshadow66 · May 2015

Prizax wrote: »

Sav72 wrote: »

What are you noobs going to do when they fix this? Quit game ? LOL

5 attacks in 1.6sec

And no its not my IPS trust me....In case you do not know............Internet Service Provider

you wrote "IPS" and it's "ISP"

on the IT field IPS would be Intrusion Prevention System... :P

In the world of sitcoms, IPS would stand for International Parcel Service. Doug Heffernan was working for them

Folkb · May 2015

They never gave a clear answer for animation cancelling from what I recall, they just said it was unintentional and they aren't messing with it at this time.

golfer.dub17_ESO · May 2015

Araxleon wrote: »

3.Its just gonna make the game more predictable and slower...Like really slow..

Well this is just flat out false.

They could easily tweak damage or health values to make the game the same speed as it is now.

Obscure · May 2015

Rust_in_Peace wrote: »

Guild Wars was a fun game but it was also a nightmare to balance. The kind of skill interrupts that existed would be impossible in ESO because you didn't control your auto attacks, couldn't bash, dodge or block anything either. ESO has a lot more to it than just your skillbar and that's what makes it unique from a lot of other games. Stop trying to look back at games that are +10 years old as an example of what everything in the future should be like.

I will never expect a game to be a different game, I will only ever judge it upon the criteria within which it is intended to function. Animation cancelling is just a bug, counter to the intended design, that has ZOS's blessing...a blessing they bestowed in the face of the daunting task of refining their creative vision and the realisation it was beyond them to do so. I don't accept the existence of a patented failure in design under the delusion it's a good thing; I begrudgingly accept it, noting it's an identified flaw that can be improved if only to serve as an example of what not to do in future game designs. It sucks, it's sad, but it's ZOS, so it's not going to change from that state; likely just the way it is now is the best it'll ever be.

Robo_Hobo · May 2015

So I take it you died

Raash · May 2015

Yeah just forget the idea they would change anything regarding combat the next 300 years. This game has always been glitchers and exploiters heaven from the very start and I think ZoS just gave up on fixing it really.
i picture this game as a big ship sailing away over the ocean - riddled with holes in the hull and instead of going back into harbor and fix them they try put duct tape over as many holes they can while hoping they reach the destination on the other side of the sea.

Grao · May 2015

Sav72 wrote: »

What are you noobs going to do when they fix this? Quit game ? LOL

5 attacks in 1.6sec

And no its not my IPS trust me....In case you do not know............Internet Service Provider

You are clearly bitter, which means you are probably too bad at this game to master the weaving and animation cancelling. ^^

Sounds like you are the noob, not us! ^^

And for those calling for this "fix"... Don't be silly! Many games have animation canceling or "clipping" as a developed skill, it differentiates players that know what they are doing from those that are still learning. Without animation cancelling Combat in ESO would be reduced to mindless button pressing; even monkeys can do that.

Razzak · May 2015

The only reason animation cancelling is still in the game is ZOS's inability to fix it.
Why are there skill animations in the first place, if the best way of combat is to cancel them?

Vahrokh · May 2015

I'd give my software developer's opinion about this "feature" but then I am 0.000001 microns from perma-ban so I can't.

Suffice to say that there are good and bad sides at implementing or not implementing a global cooldown system acting as "unsurpassable and indivisible atom" vs "free skills use".

The latter may lead to more engaging games but comes with an huge issue at its foundation: no server anti-cheat check is performed, each "fire impulse" coming from a remote client is executed and latency becomes the only floor.

This allows people with exceptionally good connections to easily spam more attacks per unit of time.

But ESO is not completely broken. The classes that would benefit the most off this, not randomly, got skills to boost medium attack weaving so that attacking slower actually yields higher DPS than sending many quick attacks.

Sadly this works exceptionally well for PvE, less for PvP, where spike damage counts and many times it's more convenient to send a quick shot that kills a guy over waiting for him to react in hope to get higher overall DPS on him.

Anyway I don't like attacks weaving. If a guy shows himself taking 1 second to prepare a massive swing then he should take 1 second to actually do it. Boring or not, that's how you do it. Try handling an heavy 2h sword / axe in RL and swinging it 3 times per second and look how good it does to your wrists.

ItsRejectz · May 2015

It will never be fixed, it's almost impossible to do unless they add cooldowns on all the skills.

/topic

Skwor · May 2015

ItsRejectz wrote: »

It will never be fixed, it's almost impossible to do unless they add cooldowns on all the skills.

/topic

As a Templar I wouldn't mind so much if they would REMOVE the GCD from our skills.

Please ZEN tell us why Templars get GCDs ( *cough* piecing jabs *cough*) and other classes do not have them? It is well past time to fix this crap with Templars in PVP.

Nivzruo_ESO · May 2015

You say fix as if it's a problem/bug. It's intended game play and adds depth to the game, we are already limited by the amount of abilities.

kevlarto_ESO · May 2015

PKMN12 wrote: »

they have already said they are not going to fix it, first off

also, it is an unintentional side effect (That the devs have said they actually did not mind at all) that is impossible to fix without majorly effecting how combat works, like adding a global cooldown.

DCUO has the same thing, and it has been in the game for years now.

I heard Paul Sage on ESO live talk about this and this, is pretty much it ^^^^^ does not matter if people think they can fix it or won't fix it, lets look at the FACTS, this is how it is and will always be unless something happens, I am not a big fan of animation canceling, but I deal with it.

r.jan_emailb16_ESO · May 2015

5 attacks in 1.6 seconds is not animation cancelling, its a macro, or if you want to call it like this, a cheat.

Naivefanboi · May 2015

Its intresting on console, block canceling doenst really work if used in quick succession. You can stil light attack weave.

Still waiting for an explanation to be added to the tutorial for new/returning players.
Should have no problem owning it if its PART of the game right zen?

SHADOW2KK · May 2015

Sav72 wrote: »

What are you noobs going to do when they fix this? Quit game ? LOL

5 attacks in 1.6sec

And no its not my IPS trust me....In case you do not know............Internet Service Provider

Lol fail, and the brilliant fail punchline corrected to ISP = Internet Service Provider.

UrQuan · May 2015

Obscure wrote: »

PKMN12 wrote: »

they have already said they are not going to fix it, first off

also, it is an unintentional side effect (That the devs have said they actually did not mind at all) that is impossible possible but time consuming to fix without majorly effecting how combat works, like adding a global cooldown cast time equivalent to a skills animation like most any other development studio does.

Edited errors.

P.S. it's a bug they are unwilling to fix so they labeled it a "feature of ESO's combat system"... it's flat out lazy design, call it what it is. I'm fine with it, but it's effin' lazy to get an unintended result and deliberately leave it in, sacrificing the actual creative vision in the name of ones own ineptitude.

Yeah, no world-famous iconic game would ever do something like that.
*cough* Space Invaders *cough*

Bouvin · May 2015

Drazhar14 wrote: »

Are they actually going to fix this? I thought they said a while ago they are leaving it as part of the game.

Working as intended.

Especially when someone uses macros to hit you with 5 attacks in 1 second.

LOL.

When asked about animation canceling, ZoS coders be like:

Bouvin · May 2015

r.jan_emailb16_ESO wrote: »

5 attacks in 1.6 seconds is not animation cancelling, its a macro, or if you want to call it like this, a cheat.

But ZoS don't care about macroing.

Just like ZoS don't care about Mist Form exploit, gate hopping, or any other cheats that are happening.

They don't care, and they don't take action against players who cheat.

Thus, setting the standard "It's okay to cheat in our game. Cheat away.".