What is the secret of the "Mighty" Vampire??

lihentian · May 2015

Well.. people on forum keep saying vampire are op, and powerful.. so i decide to give another try. But couldn't figure out myself.. please explain to me which of hte ability below are OP.

Vampire Stage 4:

This look nothing like what i seen from the website.. the website suggest a 60% reduction.. So basically 75% health regeneration only worth 21% cost reduction??

Ultimate: everyone claim this to be the best ultimate in game. But it doesn't do much damage(?) nor last very long.. and it cost 275 ultimate normally..perhaps the most expansive ultimate in game...

(taken under vampire stage 4)
damage = 526 X 5 = 2630
damage per ultimate at stage 1= 2630 / 275 = 9.5
damage per ultimate at stage 4= 2630 / 218 = 12

lets compare to other Ultimate..

damage = 1844 + (608X10) = 7924
damage per ultimate = 7924 / 200 = 39.62

damage = 4734
damage per ultimate = 4735 / 100 = 47.35

damage = 1317+1578 = 2895 or 4632 against undead/daedra/WW
damage per ultimate = 2895 / 100 = 28.95
damage per ultimate(against undead/daedra/ww) = 4632 / 100 = 46.32

Now lets have a look at other vampire skill.

Reduce damage by 75% for 3 second.. how much different is it to a potion of invisibility in pvp?? or a damage shield?

or perhaps drain essence is the source of vampire's mortality? This ability CANNOT BE USED on Any boss.. thus useless in boss fight.

ShadowHvo · May 2015

Don't forget that Drain Essence also bugs out in PvP 50% of the time too =P

Hypertionb14_ESO · May 2015

ok.. honestly, its mostly in PvP that Vampires have always shined.

Mist Form and Clouding Swarm are some of the best against other players in the game due to the side effects of them.

jkemmery · May 2015

Supposedly vampires were more powerful, especially in PvP in the past, but they got "nerfed" a few updates ago. It seemed lots of players complained about how "OP" they were.

lihentian · May 2015

Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »

ok.. honestly, its mostly in PvP that Vampires have always shined.

Mist Form and Clouding Swarm are some of the best against other players in the game due to the side effects of them.

do they do more damage then other ultimate? do they last long?? or you are telling me it take only 3 second to kill another player with this kind of damage? or perhaps it also stop you from evading and blocking?

technohic · May 2015

I want to go vamp again for the escape. Don't want to keep my potions off cool down just for that, but it does seem the penalty is a bit harsh for the strength. Also bats while using other abilities synergies well.

lihentian · May 2015

shamelessly bump~~

Yasha · May 2015

As I understand it vampire was nerfed because it was extremely OP in pvp (one character could basically take out whole groups while blocking and chaining the ultimate), but with the subsequent changes in game mechanics I am not sure whether the nerfs are justified any more.

Note also that Drain essence can only be used a single player/mob once per fight, and it doesn't seem to work if the mob/player has been hard cc'd or broken cc.

Cyhawk · May 2015

Yasha wrote: »

As I understand it vampire was nerfed because it was extremely OP in pvp (one character could basically take out whole groups while blocking and chaining the ultimate), but with the subsequent changes in game mechanics I am not sure whether the nerfs are justified any more.

Note also that Drain essence can only be used a single player/mob once per fight, and it doesn't seem to work if the mob/player has been hard cc'd or broken cc.

It killed hordes of bad players who didn't learn how to move away from the ultimate. Yeah ult stacking and 50ult cost bats was a bit strong but it took a lot of effort from your enemies to pull stuff like that off. The infamous video "proving" vampire was OP was an Emp vampire surrounded by hordes of low-skilled players being screamed at in zone/yell/voice chat to move away (He was snared to all hell). The video was the equivalent of people standing in Firepot Treb's/Oil spam and complaining they're OP.

Anyhow, Vamps are strong in PvP for one reason. Mobility. PvP is a mobility game, the more mobile you are the better off your situation is. Vampires excel at mobility between movement speed in stealth and Mist form (most players can't see people in mist form still making it even stronger) they're in control of the fight at all times. Invis bats is by far one of the best offensive ultimates, not because of the damage it deals but because of the absolute havoc you can cause to an unprepared group. If you pre-prepare before casting bats its just straight up devastating to the majority of players in the game.

Its also a cheap ultimate, meaning its pretty quick to get up, quicker than most. If you manage to get kills from the last one, you can basically chain off invis bats/bomb techniques on multiple groups while being invis and taking little to no damage. You're exploiting most players natural weakness: Panic.

A good player can exploit the strengths of Vampires against the weaknesses of your average player with extreme effect. This thread's existence is proof of that.

Siliconhobbit_ESO · May 2015

I'm a Vampire. I use neither Bat Swarm nor Mist Form. Can't stand either of them and I consider them a crutch.

Perhaps that's why I always get mt butt kicked in Cyrodiil...

Siliconhobbit_ESO · May 2015

Yasha wrote: »

Note also that Drain essence can only be used a single player/mob once per fight...

Incorrect.

Cyhawk · May 2015

Siliconhobbit_ESO wrote: »

Yasha wrote: »

Note also that Drain essence can only be used a single player/mob once per fight...

Incorrect.

Would you like to elaborate on that? Otherwise you're incorrect.

Glurin · May 2015

jkemmery wrote: »

Supposedly vampires were more powerful, especially in PvP in the past, but they got "nerfed" a few updates ago. It seemed lots of players complained about how "OP" they were.

That's because they were. At least during the first month. By a ginormous margin.

Actually they were invincible.

Wouldn't have believed it either if I hadn't seen it for myself. (And, frankly, I didn't believe it until then.

) One lone vampire v.s. at least 40 or 50 people. Literally. No exaggeration. All of us beating on him with everything we had. Fire, silver bolts, lightning, arrows, swords, holy light beams, axes, more fire, poison, even some siege engines. And this was at a time when siege engines did a lot of damage. There may have even been a kitchen sink or two. He just stood there and ate it all until his resources finally ran out on him. And no, he was NOT an emperor. I know that for a fact because the emperor was beating him over the head with the rest of us at the time.

Wasn't just one player that was doing it either.

Rust_in_Peace · May 2015

The "secret" is a learn to play issue. If you think vampire isn't worth it then don't play as one.

lihentian · May 2015

Rust_in_Peace wrote: »

The "secret" is a learn to play issue. If you think vampire isn't worth it then don't play as one.

any class can learn to play to be good, not just vampire.

Yasha · May 2015

Siliconhobbit_ESO wrote: »

Yasha wrote: »

Note also that Drain essence can only be used a single player/mob once per fight...

Incorrect.

It is not usable if the enemy has recently been stunned, knocked down, drained, fed on etc. I am not sure if it can be reused on the same target if a fight goes on for long enough- maybe there is a timer?

Glurin · May 2015

There probably is a timer, but it more than likely lasts longer than most fights.

Draxys · May 2015

Vampires are not OP anymore, but I sure do miss the golden days of vamp DK PvP.

Wing · May 2015

yeah its been kinda meh in the new ulti system.

but they have expressed interest in reworking it at some point. I personally think the fire damage should stay so that its a heavy choice instead of go vamp / ww or go home.

but I am hopeful we get 5 skills like ww to play with, it might be cool to see drain essence get reworked and turned into a channel like jesus beam. mist form is still okay but poison mist has always been weak. and the ult just costs too much now.

ult idea? make it targetable, cast ON an enemy so its a persistent aoe ult for its duration. as vamps are very squishy im okay with leaving them squishy but altering there skills to compensate. plus I think this would help further break up zerg balls in pvp. people still reflexively flee from swarms because of how bad they were back in the day even with how week they are now.

lihentian · May 2015

Wing wrote: »

yeah its been kinda meh in the new ulti system.

but they have expressed interest in reworking it at some point. I personally think the fire damage should stay so that its a heavy choice instead of go vamp / ww or go home.

but I am hopeful we get 5 skills like ww to play with, it might be cool to see drain essence get reworked and turned into a channel like jesus beam. mist form is still okay but poison mist has always been weak. and the ult just costs too much now.

ult idea? make it targetable, cast ON an enemy so its a persistent aoe ult for its duration. as vamps are very squishy im okay with leaving them squishy but altering there skills to compensate. plus I think this would help further break up zerg balls in pvp. people still reflexively flee from swarms because of how bad they were back in the day even with how week they are now.

then they should also make dunmer fire resistance as good as it should be. 50% as it always should be

Siliconhobbit_ESO · May 2015

Cyhawk wrote: »

Siliconhobbit_ESO wrote: »

Yasha wrote: »

Note also that Drain essence can only be used a single player/mob once per fight...

Incorrect.

Would you like to elaborate on that? Otherwise you're incorrect.

Nope!

*chuckles* Now that I have come back to this thread and read over what you wrote, I think I see my mistake. Yes I would agree that in most cases, a single target will not be able to affected by Drain Essence more then once per fight, unless that fight is extremely long.

I originally read your comment as being able to be used only once per fight, no matter the number of mobs. Which would be an incorrect interpretation of your comment.

lihentian · May 2015

Siliconhobbit_ESO wrote: »

Cyhawk wrote: »

Siliconhobbit_ESO wrote: »

Yasha wrote: »

Note also that Drain essence can only be used a single player/mob once per fight...

Incorrect.

Would you like to elaborate on that? Otherwise you're incorrect.

Nope!

*chuckles* Now that I have come back to this thread and read over what you wrote, I think I see my mistake. Yes I would agree that in most cases, a single target will not be able to affected by Drain Essence more then once per fight, unless that fight is extremely long.

I originally read your comment as being able to be used only once per fight, no matter the number of mobs. Which would be an incorrect interpretation of your comment.

that is how things are by the lore. the 50% fire resistance was never meant to be impossible to make up. by default two piece of equipment should make up the 50% fire resistance.

vampire have their other weakness, all fighter line are dedicate to slaying vampire.

technohic · May 2015

Wing wrote: »

yeah its been kinda meh in the new ulti system.

but they have expressed interest in reworking it at some point. I personally think the fire damage should stay so that its a heavy choice instead of go vamp / ww or go home.

but I am hopeful we get 5 skills like ww to play with, it might be cool to see drain essence get reworked and turned into a channel like jesus beam. mist form is still okay but poison mist has always been weak. and the ult just costs too much now.

ult idea? make it targetable, cast ON an enemy so its a persistent aoe ult for its duration. as vamps are very squishy im okay with leaving them squishy but altering there skills to compensate. plus I think this would help further break up zerg balls in pvp. people still reflexively flee from swarms because of how bad they were back in the day even with how week they are now.

Kind of like swarm not being targeted. As a Templar, whether it's 9ld habits or legitimate reason for them to scatter, it's the best "get away from me" I can get and escape. Or, the real treat is causing panic while charging a target that I want to focus and using other attacks on them at the same time. I can make sure it sticks and the real damage probably is what they don't see me doing.

Rust_in_Peace · May 2015

lihentian wrote: »

Rust_in_Peace wrote: »

The "secret" is a learn to play issue. If you think vampire isn't worth it then don't play as one.

any class can learn to play to be good, not just vampire.

That's why you're bad

.

lihentian · May 2015

Rust_in_Peace wrote: »

lihentian wrote: »

Rust_in_Peace wrote: »

The "secret" is a learn to play issue. If you think vampire isn't worth it then don't play as one.

any class can learn to play to be good, not just vampire.

That's why you're bad .

and that is why people are crying all the time.

Because they make the penalty so hard to bypass, thats why they must make the ability more powerful. And more powerful ability + skill player = people crying for nerf.

which is what get us to this point. Vampire and WW should be just another skill line, they should not be more power then other, but merely a choice in character build. plus we already have fighter skill line counter it.