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VR Elden Hollow, Bogdan the Nightflame mechanics clarifications.

sebban
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@Seiffer

Ever since 1.6 (I think), we've started to have some issues with this fight. The problem is that when Bogdan does his "stomp" that removes fires and the dark shades from the plattform, he often cast his fireball ability right before. This means the patches of fire spawn on players the same exact moment that the damage from his stomp hits and the combined damage usually one-shots everyone except the tank. Bogdan use fire ability -> Bogdan does his stomp -> Fire patches and damage from stomp hits the exact same moment.

Is this a intended mechanic, that you have to time the fireball-ability to not hit the exact same time as the stomp-ability, or is it unintended?
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  • Sotha_Sil
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    Bogdan does the stomp when you are close to a certain % of HP.

    When your DPS is high enough, he does stomp quicker than he would have usually resulting in a fire+stomp cast at the same time. So I guess it is unintended but it happens still.

    I'd suggest using light armor shield and healer ulti to prevent damage.
    Edited by Sotha_Sil on May 4, 2015 9:49AM
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  • The_Saint
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    Since we ignore all adds on Bogdan and only dps the boss.
    I think his firecasting is by time and his stomp by health he has.

    So do more boss damage or less. then this two effect maybe will not come together
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  • sebban
    sebban
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    Yes I am well aware that the stomp is health%-based, fire is time-based and one solution is to make sure you wait for fire and then bring him down to the stomp%, or use shields, etc, to avoid everyone but the tank getting killed.

    My question is for the developers if this is a intended "you screw up the timing and die" or if it's unintended and should get fixed with a short cooldown between the abilities to make sure it doesn't happen.
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  • eliisra
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    I had it in 1.5 a few times. It happens when you have to high dps on the boss. This problem occurs even more frequently now in 1.6 since your average group hits harder.

    There's the stomp going of based on % of his health. It occurs around 75/50/25%. Than there's the fire drops having a different timer, he keeps dropping them every X seconds until the stomp clears the area. With to high dps you will reach the stomp phases faster than intended, resulting in him dropping fire and sweeping the area almost simultaneously.

    Keep track of his health above everything, maybe even chill a bit with dps and prepare a few seconds before he stomps with shields and such. But still, this can be a bit random.
  • RinaldoGandolphi
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    I noticed this hasn't been stated, but you can Negate the fire he put on the ground. The less fire on the ground, the less damage you take when he stomps. I have found Negating his fire with a Sorc makes the fight tribal and much, much easier.
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  • Merlin13KAGL
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    To be fair, it's unpleasant, to say the least, to have any % based triggers when the basic UI does not show those percentages.

    If you're running something like FTC, you simply have to make sure one of the group members is keeping an eye on his health so you know when the stomp is coming.

    Get him close, let him drop the last fireball, and then use the stomp to clear the field. You can also use this to determine whether or not to even bother with the adds at a given moment in time or not, as it clears them too (normally).

    Negate, as previously mentioned, can be a Godsend for times between stomps or after the last stomp. Try to let the area be as flamed as possible to get the most benefit from it, use the stomps to clear when you can wait.

    Watch the percentage, make sure you are at or close to full health, and use the trigger to your advantage.
    I believe the %'s are 80, 65, 35 for the stomps.
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  • lonewolf26
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    I've had this experience in raids as well. As lead, I call to hold dps until after he's dropped his fire when he's near his jump health % triggers.
  • ZOS_Seiffer
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    Bogdan's nefarious use of Daedric Flame immediately followed by Pulverize is being looked into. There should be a small delay between the two abilities so you have time to react accordingly.
    woodsro wrote: »
    The less fire on the ground, the less damage you take when he stomps. I have found Negating his fire with a Sorc makes the fight tribal and much, much easier.
    Woodsro is correct about the use of Negate Magic and the utility it provides in the Bogdan encounter. However, the damage you take from Pulverize is not tied to how many Daedric Flame patches are present when Pulverize is cast.

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  • sebban
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    Seiffer wrote: »
    Bogdan's nefarious use of Daedric Flame immediately followed by Pulverize is being looked into. There should be a small delay between the two abilities so you have time to react accordingly.
    woodsro wrote: »
    The less fire on the ground, the less damage you take when he stomps. I have found Negating his fire with a Sorc makes the fight tribal and much, much easier.
    Woodsro is correct about the use of Negate Magic and the utility it provides in the Bogdan encounter. However, the damage you take from Pulverize is not tied to how many Daedric Flame patches are present when Pulverize is cast.

    Thank you very much for the answer!
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  • Shunravi
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    Use it to train for vDSA. Fire everywhere and a 1 hit aoe if not handled correctly are similar between the last bosses. :P
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  • Merlin13KAGL
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    For the record, OP, there are at least three other sets of bosses in Crag that follow a similar counterintuitive mechanic, that is you want to slow your DPS, lest it be the end of you.
    Just because you don't like the way something is doesn't necessarily make it wrong...

    Earn it.

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  • Darklord_Tiberius
    Darklord_Tiberius
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    Seiffer wrote: »
    Bogdan's nefarious use of Daedric Flame immediately followed by Pulverize is being looked into. There should be a small delay between the two abilities so you have time to react accordingly.
    woodsro wrote: »
    The less fire on the ground, the less damage you take when he stomps. I have found Negating his fire with a Sorc makes the fight tribal and much, much easier.
    Woodsro is correct about the use of Negate Magic and the utility it provides in the Bogdan encounter. However, the damage you take from Pulverize is not tied to how many Daedric Flame patches are present when Pulverize is cast.

    I have 25k health and still have to use my Blazing shield to survive his stomp. His stomp hits me for 31k on average. I am a Vampire, but I am also a Dunmer. Still I get hit with un-survivable damage. I think you need to look into how some of this damage is projected especially on Vampires.

    Also, for the people that have trouble with this the simple thing we have done is have the dps stop around 80% let him spit fire and then burn him to cause his stomp = no flame when he does it. Do the same thing with the next phase dps gets boss to 58% and holds, let boss spit, heal up and burn. Then the last stomp dps holds at 30% let boss spit and finish burn. Gives the healer an extra few seconds between the skill casts so he can heal.
  • Shunravi
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    Seiffer wrote: »
    Bogdan's nefarious use of Daedric Flame immediately followed by Pulverize is being looked into. There should be a small delay between the two abilities so you have time to react accordingly.
    woodsro wrote: »
    The less fire on the ground, the less damage you take when he stomps. I have found Negating his fire with a Sorc makes the fight tribal and much, much easier.
    Woodsro is correct about the use of Negate Magic and the utility it provides in the Bogdan encounter. However, the damage you take from Pulverize is not tied to how many Daedric Flame patches are present when Pulverize is cast.

    I have 25k health and still have to use my Blazing shield to survive his stomp. His stomp hits me for 31k on average. I am a Vampire, but I am also a Dunmer. Still I get hit with un-survivable damage. I think you need to look into how some of this damage is projected especially on Vampires.

    Also, for the people that have trouble with this the simple thing we have done is have the dps stop around 80% let him spit fire and then burn him to cause his stomp = no flame when he does it. Do the same thing with the next phase dps gets boss to 58% and holds, let boss spit, heal up and burn. Then the last stomp dps holds at 30% let boss spit and finish burn. Gives the healer an extra few seconds between the skill casts so he can heal.

    Do you block? I know vamps who easily survive this. And they aren't even dunmer.
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  • ZOS_Seiffer
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    Shunravi wrote: »
    Do you block? I know vamps who easily survive this. And they aren't even dunmer.
    Blocking Bogdan's Pulverize ability doesn't actually mitigate damage. Pulverize is a large area of effect ability that does massive fire damage to your entire party regardless if individual members are blocking or not.
    I have 25k health and still have to use my Blazing shield to survive his stomp.
    What Darklord_Tiberius mentions here is great advice. Shielding abilities and resistances are helpful ways to assure you survive Bogdan's Pulverize.
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  • Sacher_LB
    Sacher_LB
    Seiffer wrote: »
    Shunravi wrote: »
    Do you block? I know vamps who easily survive this. And they aren't even dunmer.
    Blocking Bogdan's Pulverize ability doesn't actually mitigate damage. Pulverize is a large area of effect ability that does massive fire damage to your entire party regardless if individual members are blocking or not.

    Just to confirm, the stomp is actually fire based, and blocking it won't mitigate the damage?

  • Shunravi
    Shunravi
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    Seiffer wrote: »
    Shunravi wrote: »
    Do you block? I know vamps who easily survive this. And they aren't even dunmer.
    Blocking Bogdan's Pulverize ability doesn't actually mitigate damage. Pulverize is a large area of effect ability that does massive fire damage to your entire party regardless if individual members are blocking or not.
    I have 25k health and still have to use my Blazing shield to survive his stomp.
    What Darklord_Tiberius mentions here is great advice. Shielding abilities and resistances are helpful ways to assure you survive Bogdan's Pulverize.

    Interesting... well, then I have no idea how I survive it then. (both while vamp and not). Im a nightblade, so no damage shields, and my resistances are terrible
    Edited by Shunravi on May 5, 2015 2:01AM
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  • Valymer
    Valymer
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    Use damage shields, it's the best way to survive it. If it is fire damage, Annulment should work against it. (I always use Hardened Ward, so not sure)
  • Shunravi
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    And @Seiffer, as the content designer and dungeon team, you are awesome. Thanks for the correction. :) Keep making awesome stuff. I know I will enjoy it :)
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  • Shunravi
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    Wait, its a % of hp right? Then I stand massively corrected.
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  • The_Saint
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    Shunravi wrote: »
    Seiffer wrote: »
    Shunravi wrote: »
    Do you block? I know vamps who easily survive this. And they aren't even dunmer.
    Blocking Bogdan's Pulverize ability doesn't actually mitigate damage. Pulverize is a large area of effect ability that does massive fire damage to your entire party regardless if individual members are blocking or not.
    I have 25k health and still have to use my Blazing shield to survive his stomp.
    What Darklord_Tiberius mentions here is great advice. Shielding abilities and resistances are helpful ways to assure you survive Bogdan's Pulverize.

    Interesting... well, then I have no idea how I survive it then. (both while vamp and not). Im a nightblade, so no damage shields, and my resistances are terrible

    Just wear 1-2 heavy nirn parts and use a shadow ability before the stomp. You should have 25k+ resistance and easily survive this
    Edited by The_Saint on May 5, 2015 5:50AM
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  • Shunravi
    Shunravi
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    The_Saint wrote: »
    Shunravi wrote: »
    Seiffer wrote: »
    Shunravi wrote: »
    Do you block? I know vamps who easily survive this. And they aren't even dunmer.
    Blocking Bogdan's Pulverize ability doesn't actually mitigate damage. Pulverize is a large area of effect ability that does massive fire damage to your entire party regardless if individual members are blocking or not.
    I have 25k health and still have to use my Blazing shield to survive his stomp.
    What Darklord_Tiberius mentions here is great advice. Shielding abilities and resistances are helpful ways to assure you survive Bogdan's Pulverize.

    Interesting... well, then I have no idea how I survive it then. (both while vamp and not). Im a nightblade, so no damage shields, and my resistances are terrible

    Just wear 1-2 heavy nirn parts and use a shadow ability before the stomp. You should have 25k+ resistance and easily survive this
    Uneccesary

    You see, I do none of this and I survive. And I run Elden Hollow on a rather frequent basis. No nirn, no shadow, nothing. (The stomp is a % of hp annyways, the issue is the stacking of the stomp with the ground fire.)

    I do not need to do any of this stuff mentioned in this thread. Which is rather odd. I am at 11k spr and 10k armor, with 20k hp. AND I SURVIVE which I feel should be emphasized... I was actually asking my healer if she did anything during the stomp. She said no. Im going to make a vid tomorrow I think...
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  • The_Saint
    The_Saint
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    Shunravi wrote: »
    The_Saint wrote: »
    Shunravi wrote: »
    Seiffer wrote: »
    Shunravi wrote: »
    Do you block? I know vamps who easily survive this. And they aren't even dunmer.
    Blocking Bogdan's Pulverize ability doesn't actually mitigate damage. Pulverize is a large area of effect ability that does massive fire damage to your entire party regardless if individual members are blocking or not.
    I have 25k health and still have to use my Blazing shield to survive his stomp.
    What Darklord_Tiberius mentions here is great advice. Shielding abilities and resistances are helpful ways to assure you survive Bogdan's Pulverize.

    Interesting... well, then I have no idea how I survive it then. (both while vamp and not). Im a nightblade, so no damage shields, and my resistances are terrible

    Just wear 1-2 heavy nirn parts and use a shadow ability before the stomp. You should have 25k+ resistance and easily survive this
    Uneccesary

    You see, I do none of this and I survive. And I run Elden Hollow on a rather frequent basis. No nirn, no shadow, nothing. (The stomp is a % of hp annyways, the issue is the stacking of the stomp with the ground fire.)

    I do not need to do any of this stuff mentioned in this thread. Which is rather odd. I am at 11k spr and 10k armor, with 20k hp. AND I SURVIVE which I feel should be emphasized... I was actually asking my healer if she did anything during the stomp. She said no. Im going to make a vid tomorrow I think...

    I just read your post before wrong and missunderstood. little bit too early for my brain ;-)
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  • Shunravi
    Shunravi
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    The_Saint wrote: »
    Shunravi wrote: »
    The_Saint wrote: »
    Shunravi wrote: »
    Seiffer wrote: »
    Shunravi wrote: »
    Do you block? I know vamps who easily survive this. And they aren't even dunmer.
    Blocking Bogdan's Pulverize ability doesn't actually mitigate damage. Pulverize is a large area of effect ability that does massive fire damage to your entire party regardless if individual members are blocking or not.
    I have 25k health and still have to use my Blazing shield to survive his stomp.
    What Darklord_Tiberius mentions here is great advice. Shielding abilities and resistances are helpful ways to assure you survive Bogdan's Pulverize.

    Interesting... well, then I have no idea how I survive it then. (both while vamp and not). Im a nightblade, so no damage shields, and my resistances are terrible

    Just wear 1-2 heavy nirn parts and use a shadow ability before the stomp. You should have 25k+ resistance and easily survive this
    Uneccesary

    You see, I do none of this and I survive. And I run Elden Hollow on a rather frequent basis. No nirn, no shadow, nothing. (The stomp is a % of hp annyways, the issue is the stacking of the stomp with the ground fire.)

    I do not need to do any of this stuff mentioned in this thread. Which is rather odd. I am at 11k spr and 10k armor, with 20k hp. AND I SURVIVE which I feel should be emphasized... I was actually asking my healer if she did anything during the stomp. She said no. Im going to make a vid tomorrow I think...

    I just read your post before wrong and missunderstood. little bit too early for my brain ;-)

    Lol, its k, its a bit late for mine. :D

    Still points stand and all that... Im into helping people out and making guides. I want to be sure im clear on mechanics (and it looks like i was in error on this one.) I don't want to be spreading misinformation, so I'm just hammering things out :)
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  • Merlin13KAGL
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    About 18k health seems to be the magic number, if you have no shields to mitigate.

    If you're already low on health when it comes, and quick heal (prolong the stomp) can be the difference.

    I say this also as a Vamp Sorc. EH is one of my favorites.
    Just because you don't like the way something is doesn't necessarily make it wrong...

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