Sick of being a paper target for 1s kills

Sumopwr · May 2015

It's great to see 17k frags, 19k wb, 20k snipes, but at some point isn't all of the skill completely gone from combat, we get it, you can put together a powerful build, run the math, combo the skills, hit very hard with huge burst, it's not the players faults for using the tools that the game presents. The burst in this game lies solely on the shoulders of the developers, I hate a 10 min duel as much as the next guy, but let's just admit not only is damage too high, so is healing, bring them both down a bit and it will make for actually having to perform in the heat of combat, not just beat on unsuspecting dummy dolls standing there for your stealth or overload...this should not even leave the templars out as they have hard hitting combos as well, dark flare radiant d anyone

for your perusal

ps. I know some of you are thinking to yourselves, "I can hit harder than that" this post is not meant for a pissing match. I'm just using numbers I see regularly.

Jitterbug · May 2015

I can hit harder than that....

...in, like, an hour

Soulac · May 2015

Wrecking blow has a cast time and was obviously used out of stealth and together with the ultimate it hits hard.
Get more health, whitestrake set or more Armor.
True, it's a bit much but I don't see the problem with it if you can't react fast enough...

Sumopwr · May 2015

Soulac wrote: »

Wrecking blow has a cast time and was obviously used out of stealth and together with the ultimate it hits hard.
Get more health, whitestrake set or more Armor.
True, it's a bit much but I don't see the problem with it if you can't react fast enough...

Whitestakes has an 8k shield ... That is 32k in damage....there is no react fast enough it's a split second burst. I guess I could give up resources for more health and force him to fear > execute me...I'm sure he can spare the extra second

Thanks for you input. Am I to believe that you do not think the ttk in pvp is to fast?

Soulac · May 2015

Sumopwr wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

Wrecking blow has a cast time and was obviously used out of stealth and together with the ultimate it hits hard.
Get more health, whitestrake set or more Armor.
True, it's a bit much but I don't see the problem with it if you can't react fast enough...

Whitestakes has an 8k shield ... That is 31k in damage....there is no react fast enough it's a split second burst.

Thanks for you input. Am I to believe that you do not think the ttk in pvp is to fast?

I run around with 20k Health and my only Shield is the whitestrake proc.
Surviving wrecking blow out of stealth or getting ganked with Snipe or Ambush + Ult combination is no problem as long as I don't drop from >30% to 0 in a single attack.

ttk is fast, but I like it and it fits my playstyle of hiding, movement and burst.

Saft · May 2015

Agree completly with autor of topic. PVP burst dmg is insane. And NB and Sorcs can combine it with their escape tools in a way they can get away with ganking over and over and over again.

Sacadon · May 2015

It takes skill to counter the 17k frags, 19k wb, 20k snipes... So how's that working out for you and I hope that step 1) on your to-do's wasn't qq on the forums. EDIT: in fairness you're not qq as much as others. agreed burst is a bit much these days. but it's fun being that bursty and beating those who are.

Saft · May 2015

Soulac wrote: »

Sumopwr wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

Wrecking blow has a cast time and was obviously used out of stealth and together with the ultimate it hits hard.
Get more health, whitestrake set or more Armor.
True, it's a bit much but I don't see the problem with it if you can't react fast enough...

Whitestakes has an 8k shield ... That is 31k in damage....there is no react fast enough it's a split second burst.

Thanks for you input. Am I to believe that you do not think the ttk in pvp is to fast?

I run around with 20k Health and my only Shield is the whitestrake proc.
Surviving wrecking blow out of stealth or getting ganked with Snipe or Ambush + Ult combination is no problem as long as I don't drop from >30% to 0 in a single attack.

ttk is fast, but I like it and it fits my playstyle of hiding, movement and burst.

So when you say "run around" = sneak likely with 100% movement speed + cloak as escape tool?

or do you actually run around standing showing yourself?

Ofc you like it.

Sumopwr · May 2015

Soulac wrote: »

Sumopwr wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

Wrecking blow has a cast time and was obviously used out of stealth and together with the ultimate it hits hard.
Get more health, whitestrake set or more Armor.
True, it's a bit much but I don't see the problem with it if you can't react fast enough...

Whitestakes has an 8k shield ... That is 31k in damage....there is no react fast enough it's a split second burst.

Thanks for you input. Am I to believe that you do not think the ttk in pvp is to fast?

I run around with 20k Health and my only Shield is the whitestrake proc.
Surviving wrecking blow out of stealth or getting ganked with Snipe or Ambush + Ult combination is no problem as long as I don't drop from >30% to 0 in a single attack.

ttk is fast, but I like it and it fits my playstyle of hiding, movement and burst.

20k + 8k = you dead

pppontus · May 2015

Just another thing making PvP gank or zerg only.

Sure, it's fun for about 5 minutes to run Stamina NB and just instakill everyone.. but it isn't PvP, in PvP opponents fight back..

I absolutely hate the new PvP meta, I have no interest of sneaking around because I want people to find me.. but every now and then you get some coward oneshotting you out of stealth with lethal arrow + camo hunter. Much skill displayed!

Minnesinger · May 2015

You are saying that the zerg isn´t the only viable play style. The story of pvp is either yoy run in zergs/ get zerged or gank/ get ganked. Better adjust or got rekt.

vortexman11 · May 2015

Soulac wrote: »

Wrecking blow has a cast time and was obviously used out of stealth and together with the ultimate it hits hard.
Get more health, whitestrake set or more Armor.
True, it's a bit much but I don't see the problem with it if you can't react fast enough...

Thats 32,000 damage in two shots. Are you saying this guy should stack 40,000 health just to not get two shot by a wreckingblow to soul harvest combo?

And to the poster, healing is not way to high anymore, healing was nerfed in PvP by 30% I believe, its fine where it is. Other than that, I agree with you. Time to kill in 1.6 is garbage, even if you're in full heavy. All people want to do in PvP now is two shot someone and then stealth/roll dodge away, and then magicka users want to nerf nirnhoned so that they can do the same, two or three shot someone, then move on to the next target.

Im getting sick of PvP to with these skills that hit freakishly hard, people are going to tell my I've gotta L2P..but what do I have to learn? To stack histbark/evasion if I want to tank, or to perma roll dodge if I want to DPS? The game is basically setup where to survive for any amount of time you have to avoid damage, its not how many hits you can take, its how many hits you can dodge simply by stacking regen or using abilities. I remember way back in 1.5 talking to my DK buddies, saying that as soon as they nerf dragonscales the only viable way for us to still survive in PvP would be to stack dodge, but I never thought it would get this bad...

Im sorry I got off topic...I have a tendency to do that...

Soulac · May 2015

Saft wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

Sumopwr wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

Wrecking blow has a cast time and was obviously used out of stealth and together with the ultimate it hits hard.
Get more health, whitestrake set or more Armor.
True, it's a bit much but I don't see the problem with it if you can't react fast enough...

Whitestakes has an 8k shield ... That is 31k in damage....there is no react fast enough it's a split second burst.

Thanks for you input. Am I to believe that you do not think the ttk in pvp is to fast?

I run around with 20k Health and my only Shield is the whitestrake proc.
Surviving wrecking blow out of stealth or getting ganked with Snipe or Ambush + Ult combination is no problem as long as I don't drop from >30% to 0 in a single attack.

ttk is fast, but I like it and it fits my playstyle of hiding, movement and burst.

So when you say "run around" = sneak likely with 100% movement speed + cloak as escape tool?

or do you actually run around standing showing yourself?

Ofc you like it.

I barely sneak (I'm WW) at all and don't got enough Magicka to cast cloak that often.
Also I don't "gank" , instead I hit people from horses and give them a chance to fight, otherwise it's boring in my opinion.
I think that answers your question..

Sumopwr wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

Sumopwr wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

Wrecking blow has a cast time and was obviously used out of stealth and together with the ultimate it hits hard.
Get more health, whitestrake set or more Armor.
True, it's a bit much but I don't see the problem with it if you can't react fast enough...

Whitestakes has an 8k shield ... That is 31k in damage....there is no react fast enough it's a split second burst.

Thanks for you input. Am I to believe that you do not think the ttk in pvp is to fast?

I run around with 20k Health and my only Shield is the whitestrake proc.
Surviving wrecking blow out of stealth or getting ganked with Snipe or Ambush + Ult combination is no problem as long as I don't drop from >30% to 0 in a single attack.

ttk is fast, but I like it and it fits my playstyle of hiding, movement and burst.

20k + 8k = you dead

Try it.
Most times I'm not on my horse so I don't thin you will kill me in one second.
Remember that you can't crit shields.

Sacadon · May 2015

pppontus wrote: »

Just another thing making PvP gank or zerg only.

Sure, it's fun for about 5 minutes to run Stamina NB and just instakill everyone.. but it isn't PvP, in PvP opponents fight back..

I absolutely hate the new PvP meta, I have no interest of sneaking around because I want people to find me.. but every now and then you get some coward oneshotting you out of stealth with lethal arrow + camo hunter. Much skill displayed!

So players are cowards for sniping? That sure seems like a personal judgement against their character when all you know about them is that they like that playstyle.

If you want swords at dawn type of fighting that is what dueling is for (ie: Legends). Personally, I prefer this type of fighting too as it's the type of challenge that allows me to use more of my skill and test my build vs. no chance which is what snipers are giving us.

I know ZOS doesn't like people to be one-shot, so it's only a matter of time before they resolve this. No it's not ever fast enough for us players, I know.

Saft · May 2015

Soulac wrote: »

Saft wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

Sumopwr wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

Wrecking blow has a cast time and was obviously used out of stealth and together with the ultimate it hits hard.
Get more health, whitestrake set or more Armor.
True, it's a bit much but I don't see the problem with it if you can't react fast enough...

Whitestakes has an 8k shield ... That is 31k in damage....there is no react fast enough it's a split second burst.

Thanks for you input. Am I to believe that you do not think the ttk in pvp is to fast?

I run around with 20k Health and my only Shield is the whitestrake proc.
Surviving wrecking blow out of stealth or getting ganked with Snipe or Ambush + Ult combination is no problem as long as I don't drop from >30% to 0 in a single attack.

ttk is fast, but I like it and it fits my playstyle of hiding, movement and burst.

So when you say "run around" = sneak likely with 100% movement speed + cloak as escape tool?

or do you actually run around standing showing yourself?

Ofc you like it.

I barely sneak (I'm WW) at all and don't got enough Magicka to cast cloak that often.
Also I don't "gank" , instead I hit people from horses and give them a chance to fight, otherwise it's boring in my opinion.
I think that answers your question..

I run around with 20k Health and my only Shield is the whitestrake proc.
Surviving wrecking blow out of stealth or getting ganked with Snipe or Ambush + Ult combination is no problem as long as I don't drop from >30% to 0 in a single attack.

ttk is fast, but I like it and it fits my playstyle of hiding, movement and burst.

20k + 8k = you dead

[/quote]

Try it.
Most times I'm not on my horse so I don't thin you will kill me in one second.
Remember that you can't crit shields.
[/quote]

Soulac wrote: »

Saft wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

Sumopwr wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

Wrecking blow has a cast time and was obviously used out of stealth and together with the ultimate it hits hard.
Get more health, whitestrake set or more Armor.
True, it's a bit much but I don't see the problem with it if you can't react fast enough...

Whitestakes has an 8k shield ... That is 31k in damage....there is no react fast enough it's a split second burst.

Thanks for you input. Am I to believe that you do not think the ttk in pvp is to fast?

I run around with 20k Health and my only Shield is the whitestrake proc.
Surviving wrecking blow out of stealth or getting ganked with Snipe or Ambush + Ult combination is no problem as long as I don't drop from >30% to 0 in a single attack.

ttk is fast, but I like it and it fits my playstyle of hiding, movement and burst.

So when you say "run around" = sneak likely with 100% movement speed + cloak as escape tool?

or do you actually run around standing showing yourself?

Ofc you like it.

I barely sneak (I'm WW) at all and don't got enough Magicka to cast cloak that often.
Also I don't "gank" , instead I hit people from horses and give them a chance to fight, otherwise it's boring in my opinion.
I think that answers your question..

Sumopwr wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

Sumopwr wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

Wrecking blow has a cast time and was obviously used out of stealth and together with the ultimate it hits hard.
Get more health, whitestrake set or more Armor.
True, it's a bit much but I don't see the problem with it if you can't react fast enough...

Whitestakes has an 8k shield ... That is 31k in damage....there is no react fast enough it's a split second burst.

Thanks for you input. Am I to believe that you do not think the ttk in pvp is to fast?

I run around with 20k Health and my only Shield is the whitestrake proc.
Surviving wrecking blow out of stealth or getting ganked with Snipe or Ambush + Ult combination is no problem as long as I don't drop from >30% to 0 in a single attack.

ttk is fast, but I like it and it fits my playstyle of hiding, movement and burst.

20k + 8k = you dead

Try it.
Most times I'm not on my horse so I don't thin you will kill me in one second.
Remember that you can't crit shields.

Do you realise your a rare NB but kudos to you would be alot more fun with more players like you. Most NB are gank and run style. And just ruin pvp enviroment for all else.

Sacadon · May 2015

Sacadon wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

Just another thing making PvP gank or zerg only.

Sure, it's fun for about 5 minutes to run Stamina NB and just instakill everyone.. but it isn't PvP, in PvP opponents fight back..

I absolutely hate the new PvP meta, I have no interest of sneaking around because I want people to find me.. but every now and then you get some coward oneshotting you out of stealth with lethal arrow + camo hunter. Much skill displayed!

So players are cowards for sniping? That sure seems like a personal judgement against their character when all you know about them is that they like that playstyle.

If you want swords at dawn type of fighting that is what dueling is for (ie: Legends). Personally, I prefer this type of fighting too as it's the type of challenge that allows me to use more of my skill and test my build vs. no chance which is what snipers are giving us.

I know ZOS doesn't like people to be one-shot, so it's only a matter of time before they resolve this. No it's not ever fast enough for us players, I know.

Btw, if he knew he would one-shot we can safely call that aholeish

Soulac · May 2015

Saft wrote: »

Do you realise your a rare NB but kudos to you would be alot more fun with more players like you. Most NB are gank and run style. And just ruin pvp enviroment for all else.

Probably :P

Rook_Master · May 2015

TTK is definitely way too high post-1.6.

Of course hit-and-run builds love it, but classes that don't have an escape sometimes get the shaft.

Saft · May 2015

Rook_Master wrote: »

TTK is definitely way too high post-1.6.

Of course hit-and-run builds love it, but classes that don't have an escape sometimes Always get the shaft.

pppontus · May 2015

Sacadon wrote: »

Sacadon wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

Just another thing making PvP gank or zerg only.

Sure, it's fun for about 5 minutes to run Stamina NB and just instakill everyone.. but it isn't PvP, in PvP opponents fight back..

I absolutely hate the new PvP meta, I have no interest of sneaking around because I want people to find me.. but every now and then you get some coward oneshotting you out of stealth with lethal arrow + camo hunter. Much skill displayed!

So players are cowards for sniping? That sure seems like a personal judgement against their character when all you know about them is that they like that playstyle.

If you want swords at dawn type of fighting that is what dueling is for (ie: Legends). Personally, I prefer this type of fighting too as it's the type of challenge that allows me to use more of my skill and test my build vs. no chance which is what snipers are giving us.

I know ZOS doesn't like people to be one-shot, so it's only a matter of time before they resolve this. No it's not ever fast enough for us players, I know.

Btw, if he knew he would one-shot we can safely call that aholeish

There is plenty of people abusing the fact that camo hunter seem to proc 100% of the time out of stealth on humans (non-ww and non-vamp). That's a literal oneshot, lethal arrow + camo hunter with guaranteed crits because stealth..

I really don't understand why hitting from stealth si both a guaranteed crit, with a damage bonus and a stun (for nightblades).. maybe made sense in 1.5 when you could survive 3-4 hits anyway.. now, it's just stupid.

I'm not saying that sniping is cowardly, actually people who snipe in open combat is just so easy to avoid. It's cowardly to do it from stealth (especially against people who are already engaged in fighting which is the most common). Feels like half of my fights end with me being deep in a 1vX and trying to manuever and stay alive when all of a sudden *boom* 16K lethal arrow from some dude hiding behind a rock 35 meters away.

It in itself isn't even a problem, the massive HP/armor nerf together with insane damage stacking is. I mean even in 7/7 heavy you don't get the same % mitigation as light armor was in 1.5.. hp went from 1:1,5 to 1:1,1.. no softcaps on resources or damage. What did they seriously expect?

Elder Scrolls Call of Duty Online.

Lorkhan · May 2015

Sumopwr wrote: »

It's great to see 17k frags, 19k wb, 20k snipes, but at some point isn't all of the skill completely gone from combat, we get it, you can put together a powerful build, run the math, combo the skills, hit very hard with huge burst, it's not the players faults for using the tools that the game presents. The burst in this game lies solely on the shoulders of the developers, I hate a 10 min duel as much as the next guy, but let's just admit not only is damage too high, so is healing, bring them both down a bit and it will make for actually having to perform in the heat of combat, not just beat on unsuspecting dummy dolls standing there for your stealth or overload...this should not even leave the templars out as they have hard hitting combos as well, dark flare radiant d anyone

for your perusal

ps. I know some of you are thinking to yourselves, "I can hit harder than that" this post is not meant for a pissing match. I'm just using numbers I see regularly.

Sharee · May 2015

If you do not like being hit for so much damage, consider wearing heavy armor. That gank would be very hard to perform against my orc DK. CC break the WB knockdown, hold block, hit GDB once or twice, then proceed to kick the NB's ass.

vortexman11 · May 2015

Sharee wrote: »

If you do not like being hit for so much damage, consider wearing heavy armor. That gank would be very hard to perform against my orc DK. CC break the WB knockdown, hold block, hit GDB once or twice, then proceed to kick the NB's ass.

Ganked off my horse in full heavy armour for a 20k snipe and a 9k ambush, this was while wearing a full set of heavy reinforced gear. Wearing heavy armour doesn't help much when alot of these people are stacking armour penetration anyways.

Sacadon · May 2015

pppontus wrote: »

Sacadon wrote: »

Sacadon wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

Just another thing making PvP gank or zerg only.

Sure, it's fun for about 5 minutes to run Stamina NB and just instakill everyone.. but it isn't PvP, in PvP opponents fight back..

I absolutely hate the new PvP meta, I have no interest of sneaking around because I want people to find me.. but every now and then you get some coward oneshotting you out of stealth with lethal arrow + camo hunter. Much skill displayed!

So players are cowards for sniping? That sure seems like a personal judgement against their character when all you know about them is that they like that playstyle.

If you want swords at dawn type of fighting that is what dueling is for (ie: Legends). Personally, I prefer this type of fighting too as it's the type of challenge that allows me to use more of my skill and test my build vs. no chance which is what snipers are giving us.

I know ZOS doesn't like people to be one-shot, so it's only a matter of time before they resolve this. No it's not ever fast enough for us players, I know.

Btw, if he knew he would one-shot we can safely call that aholeish

There is plenty of people abusing the fact that camo hunter seem to proc 100% of the time out of stealth on humans (non-ww and non-vamp). That's a literal oneshot, lethal arrow + camo hunter with guaranteed crits because stealth..

I really don't understand why hitting from stealth si both a guaranteed crit, with a damage bonus and a stun (for nightblades).. maybe made sense in 1.5 when you could survive 3-4 hits anyway.. now, it's just stupid.

I'm not saying that sniping is cowardly, actually people who snipe in open combat is just so easy to avoid. It's cowardly to do it from stealth (especially against people who are already engaged in fighting which is the most common). Feels like half of my fights end with me being deep in a 1vX and trying to manuever and stay alive when all of a sudden *boom* 16K lethal arrow from some dude hiding behind a rock 35 meters away.

It in itself isn't even a problem, the massive HP/armor nerf together with insane damage stacking is. I mean even in 7/7 heavy you don't get the same % mitigation as light armor was in 1.5.. hp went from 1:1,5 to 1:1,1.. no softcaps on resources or damage. What did they seriously expect?

Elder Scrolls Call of Duty Online.

Yeah the camo hunter plus stealth bonus with snipe alone needs to be looked at. For some reason ZOS has been ok with the WW/Vamp proc one-shotting as they never scaled the proc + other back from the 25-30K range, but that was back when proccing was infrequent.

I rarely see 1vX as I'm way to squishy, and my 1v1s almost always turns into 1vX then a death recap shortly thereafter. I really hate wiping, but I know I can't be both a powerful magicka NB and survive jack-squat these days, even with resto. Edit: this is my group build btw.

Maybe the NB just goes stealth to get a guaranteed crit against you vs. hiding. If I ran that morph, or even cloak for that matter, I would definitely do that to ensure my hits were hardest.

Sharee · May 2015

vortexman11 wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

If you do not like being hit for so much damage, consider wearing heavy armor. That gank would be very hard to perform against my orc DK. CC break the WB knockdown, hold block, hit GDB once or twice, then proceed to kick the NB's ass.

Ganked off my horse in full heavy armour for a 20k snipe and a 9k ambush, this was while wearing a full set of heavy reinforced gear. Wearing heavy armour doesn't help much when alot of these people are stacking armour penetration anyways.

I don't think i've ever been hit for 20K with a snipe even on my 7/7 medium NB, much less on my 7/7 heavy DK. In fact i can only remember one occassion where i got hit that hard by a single ability, and that was a full duration jesus beam.

But then i have 54 CP in poison/magic damage reduction.

Isbilen · May 2015

You know the Nightblade burst is out of control when some of them are able to take down 27K health on someone in heavy armor before the game is even able to register it:

vortexman11 · May 2015

Sharee wrote: »

vortexman11 wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

If you do not like being hit for so much damage, consider wearing heavy armor. That gank would be very hard to perform against my orc DK. CC break the WB knockdown, hold block, hit GDB once or twice, then proceed to kick the NB's ass.

Ganked off my horse in full heavy armour for a 20k snipe and a 9k ambush, this was while wearing a full set of heavy reinforced gear. Wearing heavy armour doesn't help much when alot of these people are stacking armour penetration anyways.

I don't think i've ever been hit for 20K with a snipe even on my 7/7 medium NB, much less on my 7/7 heavy DK. In fact i can only remember one occassion where i got hit that hard by a single ability, and that was a full duration jesus beam.

But then i have 54 CP in poison/magic damage reduction.

Well yeah, I kinda lied. It was 19.5k

Ifthir_ESO · May 2015

so you got wb and then soul harvested via stealth.

use detect pots and stand in caltrops

SoulScream · May 2015

ESO PVP is garbage right now I logged in for ten mins last night and gave up in disgust. When I logged on there was a call to a keep that sorcs teleported on the walls and were sieging inner. So I went there, won that, and outside the walls started fighting till I got killed by 83000 fall damage. And guess what happened after that.... Rez and stuck in infinite load screen. I was going to delete the game but remembered I should pass guild master to someone.

Oughash · May 2015

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

so you got wb and then soul harvested via stealth.

use detect pots and stand in caltrops

I don't think that the OP is worried about getting hit with these skills.

The complaint is that he got two-shotted with no potential for a skillful response. You can't stand in caltrops 100% of the time. Getting hit from stealth with a guaranteed stun + crit is one thing. Its another when the crit dmg is 20k against an average health of 20-25k in cyrodiil. Might be good for some lulz, but its not fun gameplay.

To continue: the sneak attack --> dodge --> stealth --> re-engage gameplay which stam nightblades play right now is really engaging. It is tough to fight against, affords supreme maneuverability. I'm cool with that. HOWEVER, it also has the strongest burst in the game, bar none. That is why players get frustrated.

Rook_Master · May 2015

Isbilen wrote: »

You know the Nightblade burst is out of control when some of them are able to take down 27K health on someone in heavy armor before the game is even able to register it:

The absurdity of those tooltips on the recap amuses me.

They should add some more relevant ones to the tooltips. Here are some examples:

"Sometimes when Camo Hunter Procs on Focused Aim from Stealth it gives such a ridiculous burst that the game doesn't even include it in the recap."

"When you run into a zerg spamming Vigor and Steel Tornado, try forcing PUGs to get into your TeamSpeak so that you can have enough people spamming AoEs more closely to counter it."

"If you're a Templar, try becoming a Vampire so that you actually have some sort of escape."