Dueling -vs- Exploiting

Goldie · May 2015

@ZOS_BrianWheeler An issue has come up recently in the PvP community that's needs your clarification and attention.

Obviously Dueling is great fun, helps us improve our builds, and is a great way to make cross-faction friends, of which I have made a good deal from duels and the honor of my PvP enemies.

Trading Kills for AP, however, is exploiting, and as far as I know, a bannable offense.

Here is the issue: Where is the line drawn? When does dueling become "trading kills" and how do 'you' tell the difference?

If some players were trading kills, they could simply say that they were dueling and be on their merry way... with no action taken by a GM. (happens a lot).

It is not the fault of the players that this game was left wide open for exploiters, so where do we draw the line Wheeler?

aco5712 · May 2015

you get diminishing AP every time you kill the same person. Now that resets but after some time, which means that trading AP like that isnt as effective as actually playing. So this is a not a issue at all.

Teargrants · May 2015

Here, I'll help clear up the confusion: If I'm not getting AP from the dueling, then it's exploiting.

KTHXBAI

TheBull · May 2015

after you kill the same person 3 or 4 times that person is worth about 7ap.

Turelus · May 2015

As others have said kills on the same person decrease their AP value unless you don't find them for a period of time.

Also farming AP this way isn't very efficient, a thousand AP for a single player kill in a dual vs the tens of thousands from wiping a large group with a small PVP group.

Also when AP farming happens it's pretty obvious to those who see it.
One person stands at a resource, a large number of enemies stand at the same resource, the enemies all run in and the farmer tags them all with hits as they wipe to NPC's. After this they spawn back and wait near the resource while the farmer takes the defence tick and lets the anti-farm cool down. Repeat.

Lhorion · May 2015

Unfortunately "AP traiding" or "rankfarming" is not bannable.
When some of my friends startet their emperor-weekend a few months ago they were on leaderboard 1,2. An EP guild joined the campagn and wanted their own emperor. So they made a deal with an AD-zerg. They placed a camp 10 meters from a ressource (this days you got AP next to a camp). Ne EP guy was allowed to kill them all without having any moving enemies. This guy got all the AP and the D-ticks again and again. I was there to watch and other EP in the guild that made the deal were riding to my stealthed character so AD could find me.
I filmed it and sent it to Zenimax. The answer: We understand that you are angry, but atm it is not forbidden. But please don't to this yourself because maybe it will be forbidden some day.

Pixysticks · May 2015

You made this same post the other day and everyone saw the video and told you to stop creating drama and crying over not getting the #1 spot on the board, like the guy you tried to get banned, then ZoS closed the thread. I guess you're just really still sour over it.

Sanct16 · May 2015

Pixysticks wrote: »

You made this same post the other day and everyone saw the video and told you to stop creating drama and crying over not getting the #1 spot on the board, like the guy you tried to get banned, then ZoS closed the thread. I guess you're just really still sour over it.

Have to admit that lhorion has a point there. Was back on Celarus and I was part of the ad guild trading emp with the reds. After we got some legitimate emps during the first days the map was totally dead and the only real enemies left wanted to get emperors too so we made a deal and just flipped the keeps without repairing.

However I don't think this is really an issue at the moment. All campaigns are very active and it takes more than some free kills on a resource to get #1. This method is good to get 20k ap fast on a campaign without any action. To get emp this way on a locked campaign you need to have a lot of seriously bored friends.

Lhorion · May 2015

Much later (when most campagns were full) I saw the same when Haderus has reset. If one guy kills 20 people gets about 20k AP + 20k D-Tick = 40k in 2 minutes. Can be faster than playing

Pixysticks · May 2015

Like ZoS told you before, file an in-game report with the names of the people exploiting.

maryriv · May 2015

Goldie wrote: »

@ZOS_BrianWheeler An issue has come up recently in the PvP community that's needs your clarification and attention.

Obviously Dueling is great fun, helps us improve our builds, and is a great way to make cross-faction friends, of which I have made a good deal from duels and the honor of my PvP enemies.

Trading Kills for AP, however, is exploiting, and as far as I know, a bannable offense.

Here is the issue: Where is the line drawn? When does dueling become "trading kills" and how do 'you' tell the difference?

If some players were trading kills, they could simply say that they were dueling and be on their merry way... with no action taken by a GM. (happens a lot).

It is not the fault of the players that this game was left wide open for exploiters, so where do we draw the line Wheeler?

When you have hordes of people from the same guild running into a node where another guy in their guild just aoe's them down over and over I think it's kinda obvious.

maryriv · May 2015

Turelus wrote: »

As others have said kills on the same person decrease their AP value unless you don't find them for a period of time.

Also farming AP this way isn't very efficient, a thousand AP for a single player kill in a dual vs the tens of thousands from wiping a large group with a small PVP group.

Also when AP farming happens it's pretty obvious to those who see it.
One person stands at a resource, a large number of enemies stand at the same resource, the enemies all run in and the farmer tags them all with hits as they wipe to NPC's. After this they spawn back and wait near the resource while the farmer takes the defence tick and lets the anti-farm cool down. Repeat.

The Defence Tick has no such DR.

Lhorion · May 2015

Pixysticks wrote: »

Like ZoS told you before, file an in-game report with the names of the people exploiting.

This is not exploiting ZOS told me. It should be, but ZOS accepts it.

Pchela · May 2015

I can say with certainty that a few people I know have been reported for this behavior in the recent past and did receive warnings in game from GMs about it.

Lhorion · May 2015

Pchela wrote: »

I can say with certainty that a few people I know have been reported for this behavior in the recent past and did receive warnings in game from GMs about it.

Great! So we know... ZOS does not know what they are thinking about such a behavior.

Araxleon · May 2015

Well bare in mind most duelers DO NOT wanna get banned. And you can tell when they are farming AP or dueling.

Usually dueling is around a open field not near any resources and like I said it is pretty obvious.

When they are near a resource and purposely trying to get EXTRA AP from resources than thats farming

you cant avoid getting AP, only minimize the amount you get.

I dont have the thing to post because I deleted it a long time ago, but I asked ZOS about it when I was a council member of legend and they responded something along the lines of All is fair in cyrodill if you choose to duel that is your choice, but dont expect other alliance members to be just as friendly

but yeah like I said I dont have a picture of the massage anymore, sypher may have it.

Soulac · May 2015

@LegendaryMage
Exploit nub! Only farming Ap!

Artemiisia · May 2015

this gotta be time consuming doing anyways, after you kill your "friend", he/she has to ress, and travel back to where your fighting, and vice verse.

Killing random people should be faster or im I missing something?

Araxleon · May 2015

Soulac wrote: »

@LegendaryMage
Exploit nub! Only farming Ap!

I guess we could say legend and arena are legit exploiters now

Honestly dueling is awesome and you dont get that much AP from it, Yes you can get emp on a dead campgain but other than that its not that easily <.<and legend knows this and duels on thornblade so that they ARENT on top.

LegendaryMage · May 2015

Soulac wrote: »

@LegendaryMage
Exploit nub! Only farming Ap!

Yeah, I have so much AP I'm drowning in it all the time.

Goldie · May 2015

aco5712 wrote: »

you get diminishing AP every time you kill the same person. Now that resets but after some time, which means that trading AP like that isnt as effective as actually playing. So this is a not a issue at all.

If there are a number of players involved then the diminishing returns kinda goes out the window doesn't it

Bouvin · May 2015

aco5712 wrote: »

you get diminishing AP every time you kill the same person. Now that resets but after some time, which means that trading AP like that isnt as effective as actually playing. So this is a not a issue at all.

You get more AP from repairing walls than trading kills.

So, not really an issue.

Goldie · May 2015

Pixysticks wrote: »

You made this same post the other day and everyone saw the video and told you to stop creating drama and crying over not getting the #1 spot on the board, like the guy you tried to get banned, then ZoS closed the thread. I guess you're just really still sour over it.

Not trying to get anyone banned, and I don't care to get 1st on the board, if I wanted it I would have it.

ZOS closed the thread because people like you took the thread off topic.

Im against exploiting in any way, if a player cant play right then they deserve to be banned.

This has nothing to do with creating drama, or crying, but keeping the game fair and fun to play.

Cody · May 2015

Please tell people to go duel in more... discreet places:)

IN FRONT OF THE CHALMAN MILGATE WHEN DC HAS BLEAKERS AND EP HAS CHAL IS NOT A GOOD SPOT

IN FRONT OF BLEAKERS WHEN DC HAS IT AND EP IS HITTING IT IS NOT A GOOD SPOT

NEAR THE GATES OF AN ALLIANCES SPAWN WHEN THEY ARE GETTING GATE CAMPED IS NOT A GOOD SPOT

If i catch ANY enemies in any of these areas, or any areas similar to these, at these conditions, i and others nearby WILL attack any enemies seen, dueling or not. go duel or cheat in more discreet places please:)

oh, and I do not think dueling is AP farming. As others have said, diminishing returns deal with that quite nicely.

However, if a guild has to make a deal with a guild in another alliance and set up FCs and farm each other for AP/emp, they are pure garbage. Guilds like that are scum and are not worth the frustration. Their emperor WILL be pure garbage, and a laugh on the battlefield, so no worries there:) they will likely lose this emperor ship in just under a day due to their lack of integrity and skill.