Guild spies, need to handle this, PLEASE!

QuadroTony · May 2015

we just need the option of visibility of the bids on the trader BY GUILDLEADER ONLY

its just got me when on EU in Rawlk'ha 4 of 5 traders was hired for 800k gold by the same guilds every week
but today spot of Tamriel Trader Guild, 5th trader was outbided for 1.3m+!

its a rude speculation, when some1 wanna to outbid only one specific guild, he not neeed just a trader at that city
so this guild have a spy in TTG, and they can see in the logs howmuch GM of TTG bid everyday on his trader

its abit unfair, yes?
so every guild need a spy in every top guilds to keep their place active, right?

PLEASE JUST REMOVE BIDS FOR GUILD TRADER FROM THE LOGS OF THE GUILD AT THE HISTORY TAB
easy solution

Nestor · May 2015

Thing is, I want to know how much my Guild leader is spending on these things, they keep asking me for gold through raffles and I want to make sure the money is being well spent.

QuadroTony · May 2015

well, you will see the result only

WAS HIRED FOR ************

not actually a bid action

gw2only1b14_ESO · May 2015

Do as I do..place bid at last minute...result since January, 4 traders won..But tbh IN US it be nice if they close the bidding at 9pm est .

QuadroTony · May 2015

on EU in my county i need to up in 5AM to make a bid

gw2only1b14_ESO · May 2015

QuadroTony wrote: »

on EU in my county i need to up in 5AM to make a bid

Then once again,,,push to have them end at reasonable times..

QuadroTony · May 2015

gw2only1b14_ESO wrote: »

QuadroTony wrote: »

on EU in my county i need to up in 5AM to make a bid

Then once again,,,push to have them end at reasonable times..

i think solution from first post the same easy as a time change

Sylvyr · May 2015

1) The viewing of bidding on the guild trader log entry needs to be it's OWN permission. Because as someone else put it they want to see if their gold is going towards a bid (in a guild that takes gold from members for it). So the GM could give this permission to whatever ranks. But regardless it needs to NOT be defaulting to public viewing. This has been a problem for months and months and is in the realm of ridiculousness at this point

2) and/or shoot the poor thing in the head and revamp the whole system.

vovus69 · May 2015

Final successful bid or the fact that it was failed bid of some amount must be always in the logs for all guild members. I rarely see a guild nowadays who are not asking for money like taxes/listing fee/raffles/trivia/outright money, *** like that. As long as it stays that way - bid (successful or not) must be public for all guild members. If GM will pay his own money - this would be another story. But as long as it is public money - this info must be open to all members.

QuadroTony · May 2015

another idea - if you got outbided - immediatly nitificate the leader, so he can bid again

Heromofo · May 2015

All this failure just to avoid auction houses lol just drop it zos and go for auction houses one on each side.

I am sure you can find a way to stop under cutting like price to put up an auction and items have a minimum gold amount.

NewBlacksmurf · May 2015

Supply and demand
Corporations fighting for market place =guilds in this game
Competition is a good thing

vovus69 · May 2015

Heromofo wrote: »

All this failure just to avoid auction houses lol just drop it zos and go for auction houses one on each side.

I am sure you can find a way to stop under cutting like price to put up an auction and items have a minimum gold amount.

Another option - allow any guild to have a own kiosk without all this bidding. Just in some less public areas. and you can auction out the public places as it is now.

Acrolas · May 2015

It should be a completely blind system so people can't even text each other about it. It might not be an inside spy. It could very well just be friends from two different guilds sharing information with each other over the phone. And then information spreads and feelings get hurt and the Internet claims more tears of an innocent. Also, the obligatory,

(But Tamriel doesn't even have phones holy *** that's lore-breaking.)

Nestor wrote: »

they keep asking me for gold through raffles

But that's the thing - they're not raffles.

Raffles in the US are state-regulated events organized by nonprofits under strict guidelines. Violation of state raffle laws can lead to serious fines, jail time, or both. Far as I know, not a single NA server "raffle" through ESO is state-regulated.

But what the guilds are really doing are illegal lotteries, which by law are defined as having a prize, a chance to win, and mandatory consideration (a transaction required before you have a chance to win).

Those really need to stop. It's not a violation of ESO TOS. It's a violation of US law. ZOS won't protect you if a lawyer comes knocking. They'll just plead ignorance to the whole thing.
UK residents need to visit a local licensing authority and pay a fee to be eligible to hold small society private lotteries (which, to further confuse things, are also called raffles). To my knowledge, no EU guild has publicly registered to hold private lotteries.

In the event that any guild is licensed for state raffles or private lotteries through the proper legal channels, that should be documented and stickied in the forum. That way you we all know who took the time to do their research and run things properly.

EQBallzz · May 2015

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Supply and demand
Corporations fighting for market place =guilds in this game
Competition is a good thing

Huh? What does competition have to do with the OP? The issue is that people can easily join multiple trading guilds so it's easy to join the competition and view how much they are bidding as a means to outbid them. It pretty much defeats the entire "blind" bidding system and amounts to cheating. The blind bidding system is bad enough even when it's working properly but considering how easy it is to circumvent..it's utterly broken. I'm in several established trading guilds with very active trading and they are constantly losing outrageous bids of 500-900k+ bids because of this. It's gotten completely out of hand and needs immediate fixing.

Vyshan · May 2015

This entire system is a dumb concept. Likely the silliest thing ZoS has come up with, to date.

I don't even use player-run traders. It's too much of a hassle to have to check two dozen different traders, spread out all over the world, for the one item I'm looking for.

It's just not worth the time, money and effort without sales being centralized.

Killum · May 2015

Those really need to stop. It's not a violation of ESO TOS. It's a violation of US law. ZOS won't protect you if a lawyer comes knocking. They'll just plead ignorance to the whole thing.
UK residents need to visit a local licensing authority and pay a fee to be eligible to hold small society private lotteries (which, to further confuse things, are also called raffles). To my knowledge, no EU guild has publicly registered to hold private lotteries.

In the event that any guild is licensed for state raffles or private lotteries through the proper legal channels, that should be documented and stickied in the forum. That way you we all know who took the time to do their research and run things properly.[/quote]

I am afraid you are wrong on the point of those of us in the UK needing a licence to hold a lottery or a raffle within ESO. As long as the following conditions are met.

!. There in no money involved.
2. The prizes have no monetary value.

QuadroTony · May 2015

offtopic\

when i need to sold expensive and rare items like lich set:

- spam in zone chat of at least 3 locations from ad/blue/red hero
- spam in 15 guilds i have(3 accounts)
- joint to every PVP campaign by ad/blue/red hero and spam in their zones

its very hard, global auction will be better

Acrolas · May 2015

Killum wrote: »

I am afraid you are wrong on the point of those of us in the UK needing a licence to hold a lottery or a raffle within ESO. As long as the following conditions are met.

!. There in no money involved.
2. The prizes have no monetary value.

Except the law doesn't say "money." It says "payment" or "required to pay."

But that's all right. The Gambling Commission is getting back to me with a detailed response shortly.

sylviermoone · May 2015

Acrolas wrote: »

Killum wrote: »

I am afraid you are wrong on the point of those of us in the UK needing a licence to hold a lottery or a raffle within ESO. As long as the following conditions are met.

!. There in no money involved.
2. The prizes have no monetary value.

Except the law doesn't say "money." It says "payment" or "required to pay."

But that's all right. The Gambling Commission is getting back to me with a detailed response shortly.

You've got to be [snip] kidding.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

newtinmpls · May 2015

Acrolas wrote: »

But that's all right. The Gambling Commission is getting back to me with a detailed response shortly.

/facepalm

For imaginary money in a giant online "let's pretend?"

I would suspect they have better things to worry about.

SHADOW2KK · May 2015

newtinmpls wrote: »

Acrolas wrote: »

But that's all right. The Gambling Commission is getting back to me with a detailed response shortly.

/facepalm

For imaginary money in a giant online "let's pretend?"

I would suspect they have better things to worry about.

Haha aye well said lass, had to give ya an awesome for that.

drschplatt · May 2015

Those really need to stop. It's not a violation of ESO TOS. It's a violation of US law.

I would like to see the law that makes it illegal for people playing an imaginary game to participate in an imaginary raffle with imaginary gold in an imaginary world where they earn said imaginary gold by pretending to pickpocket, murder and steal their way through an imaginary epic adventure full of imaginary demons.

I do hope the original post was meant as a joke.

pugyourself · May 2015

Acrolas wrote: »

Killum wrote: »

I am afraid you are wrong on the point of those of us in the UK needing a licence to hold a lottery or a raffle within ESO. As long as the following conditions are met.

!. There in no money involved.
2. The prizes have no monetary value.

Except the law doesn't say "money." It says "payment" or "required to pay."

But that's all right. The Gambling Commission is getting back to me with a detailed response shortly.

Go Away

Bookwyrm · May 2015

drschplatt wrote: »

Those really need to stop. It's not a violation of ESO TOS. It's a violation of US law.

I would like to see the law that makes it illegal for people playing an imaginary game to participate in an imaginary raffle with imaginary gold in an imaginary world where they earn said imaginary gold by pretending to pickpocket, murder and steal their way through an imaginary epic adventure full of imaginary demons.

I do hope the original post was meant as a joke.

So much this. I mean, if we're going to contact "the law" about "illegal gambling" with fake money that has no actual monetary value for items that also have no actual monetary value, then we should probably also contact "the law" about all the theft and murdering going on in-game as well. I mean, that's an even bigger problem, right? Murder?

Oh but wait, they're imaginary people that respawn before their bodies even despawn...just like the money and items are imaginary...hmm...

I'm fairly certain US law is not applicable to Tamriel (in-game), as the US does not exist on Nirn...at least I'm fairly certain it doesn't. It's never been mentioned in the lore before, and we know the lore is the ultimate Tamrielic law. :P

Divad Zarn · May 2015

QuadroTony wrote: »

we just need the option of visibility of the bids on the trader BY GUILDLEADER ONLY

its just got me when on EU in Rawlk'ha 4 of 5 traders was hired for 800k gold by the same guilds every week
but today spot of Tamriel Trader Guild, 5th trader was outbided for 1.3m+!

its a rude speculation, when some1 wanna to outbid only one specific guild, he not neeed just a trader at that city
so this guild have a spy in TTG, and they can see in the logs howmuch GM of TTG bid everyday on his trader

its abit unfair, yes?
so every guild need a spy in every top guilds to keep their place active, right?

PLEASE JUST REMOVE BIDS FOR GUILD TRADER FROM THE LOGS OF THE GUILD AT THE HISTORY TAB
easy solution

Totally agree, said this so many times already..

P.S. Those who saying that THEY want to see where guild gold going - 1) you still can see IF GM will withdraw gold from guild bank and 2) till you trade and receiving big profit from top guild where A LOT of people want to join it should not matter you, some GM's of top listed guild taking money from guild as payment for their efforts (i don't agree with that) but it's still fair.

Maddhawk · May 2015

Am I reading this correctly? You guys are arguing about the legality of IN GAME raffling/lottery using IN GAME currency?

Deome · May 2015

I have no problem with viewing last week's bid. If you don't want to be outbid, don't bid on the same trader each week.

Cry_Wolfe · May 2015

ZoS could allow more than one Guild to win locations. The Code is already there at the bankers Guild Shop. Not only would this decrease competitive behavior(such as spying), it would increase possible sales thru exposure AND put some hush on a fair portion of the baying for a Universal AH.

Disallow Guilds from being represented more than once per map in a given cycle. Increase Guild Vendor Npc numbers slightly AND allow them to represent (5)? guilds at one time.

wrlifeboil · May 2015

gw2only1b14_ESO wrote: »

QuadroTony wrote: »

on EU in my county i need to up in 5AM to make a bid

Then once again,,,push to have them end at reasonable times..

They probably deliberately designed it so the deadline wouldn't happen during times when many players are online. Maybe they don't want the servers to crash.

hamgatan · May 2015

QuadroTony wrote: »

we just need the option of visibility of the bids on the trader BY GUILDLEADER ONLY

its just got me when on EU in Rawlk'ha 4 of 5 traders was hired for 800k gold by the same guilds every week
but today spot of Tamriel Trader Guild, 5th trader was outbided for 1.3m+!

I've personally lost count of how many times this has been said before. However the fact that people are genuinely surprised by this behaviour still amuses me.

All I can say is welcome to Rawl. Certain mega-guilds (not naming the three I have in mind), have been banding together to keep other guilds out of Rawl for AGES. This isn't new. I can think of one instance even last week where they took the bid up past 4 million just to shut a particular guild out.

This is only half the problem with Rawl though. The biggest problem is peoples perception that it is the premium location for Guild Traders. Break that perception and the value of Rawl sites will drop.

For example, Bandaari Trading Post has the same amount of Guild Traders, almost the exact same distance from the Wayshrine. And the bids in Bandaari go for WAY less than Rawl because it doesn't have that premium monniker.