ESO+: Is It Subscription, Support, or Something Else?

Molagent · April 2015

By view count, I'd take a swing and say a lot of you have read my thread if not, posts of others if not similar than simply on the thread itself.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/166516/eso-worth-it-or-not/p1

This was a thread made to show the flaws in the ESO+ subscription along with a possible new guideline for it to be improved on. Something that I saw a lot of in my thread and others was one word, and it kept popping up over and over and over again.

"Support"

Alright, let's assume in the business aspect because we do have the numbers to prove ESO has had a massive player base decline that it has indeed led to their own shares, stock, etc. in the company and product to diminish significantly. So now investors are threatening and possibly even sueing, so Zenimax decides "Well we need to make the numbers back somehow." Facing the facts, making players hit pay walls reduces interest and the player base so dramatically it's impossible to recover from. Yet, some games offer workarounds or even the ability to go completely free and simply grind out every last thing.. Now they're seeing the free-to-play market's numbers and strategies, they're developing their own even now. No matter what we want to say, Pay-To-Win does show success in numbers, but only if the game has a lot of them to follow.

Games like Perfect World, Jade Dynasty, Ragnarok Online 2, World of Warcraft, RuneScape, Fallen Earth, APB: Reloaded, Blacklight Retribution, and so on have some form of a pay wall in which you can no longer access content after a certain point. Whether or not it be in the form of purchasing an expansion pack, weapons, armor, or a subscription to view more and content for longer. All these games and more have a form of pay walls, and the numbers show that they are to an extent of simple, effective and short term goals that they are indeed successful. Whether or not we want to admit it. People continue to buy DLC, Season Passes, and even Premiums/V.I.P. packages for games even though they are beyond broken and horrid. Such as Dungeon Keeper 2, Sims City, Assassin's Creed, Call of Duty, Battlefield, etc. No matter what, pay-to-win will always have it's benefit of quick cash. Reality is simple though, is it worth it? To EA, Ubisoft, Activision and others that worked with CoD titles... It was.

Regardless of it all...The word "Support." That's what we're looking at. How is it people can suddenly claim their subscriptions are support to the game. Where was it ever stated that Zenimax needed or wanted the support of it's players? Stop. Think for a moment, google it even if you need to. If you find such statements I'd love to see them. Nonetheless, how could a multi-million dollar company like Zenimax and Bethesda need support from players? Do you really hold your subscription fee so highly you think of it as donation? Is it because of the rise in social media and outlets to fund projects like: KickStarter, Paetron, etc.

Should we decide to go back to the subscription base line? Should we keep ESO+ in such a decision to go back, or keep it as is? Do you really feel your money is for support or do you think "support" should be made in the sense of something else? Microtransactions, then what and to what limits? What exactly would you even class the so called "DLC" to even be? Are you really so sure that it'll be new zones, maybe only levels, gear? There's no exact knowledge so what do you think it should be and should it be hidden all behind a paywall like a subscription?

winterscrolls229prerb18_ESO · April 2015

Well, technically its revenue for Zenimax, completely natural and alright as they're a business.

What's screwed is the reality distortion field some people use to justify to themselves why -they- are paying money when they don't need to, and worse, look down on other people for not being as distorted.

Decades ago there was some rationale that your subscription fee was going to be well put to use to make new content and keep the servers up to justify the fee, but that was also proved as complete delusion almost as long ago... The amount of profit that they make ontop of employees, new content and servers is ridiculous.

Again, perfectly okay as they're businesses, they're here to make profits, and found something good. More power to em. Its only the reality distortion field of fanboys that needs checking...

Raash · April 2015

subscription= monthly purchase of crowns + small perks(10% xp & gold).
This game is now f2p for all who once purchased the game and b2p for potential new players.
Thats it. Everyone that paid for the game has supported it.

Yolokin_Swagonborn · April 2015

ESO Plus is for those of us that enjoyed the feeling of paying a little bit extra every month to help beta test the game for console release and would like to ensure that console users everywhere have a bug free launch and ZOS has a large enough marketing budget to attract lots of buyers to this amazing game.

NewBlacksmurf · April 2015

I'm not sure that it matters
The program offers whatever term the customer views it as based on whatever opportunities they see fit to pay for.

As we see DLC which is pay gated, the benefits will become very evident. The first two pieces of content...not so much but when you have 4 or 5 $15-$25 DLC and when the VR levels are removed there will be a clearer value to ESO plus.

Right now, it's giving those who need to feel valued some benefits for support, subscribing, etc

Heromofo · April 2015

Linking from my other thread do you agree?

I see it as preorder crowns
I see no reason to subbing
I see no new content as they pointed out atleast not for the next few months
I see it is better to just buy the dlc instead of renting it and losing it if i dont sub
I see the exp bonus worthless like srsly worthless lol it does not event make the smallest dent

Zos are you seeing the picture i mean i love b2p but dont you want subs?

Idea 1. Each month get x amount of gold
Idea 2. Each week gain 3 cp that your subbed
Idea 3. Instead of 10 make it 25 percent and make it affect alot more
Idea 4. Make it so if you sub for 6 months the dlc in that release window become yours to keep

We want to give you more money zos just make it worth our time
We do love ya zos and we do love eso just help us to help you

PS check out the models of other b2p games and even some f2p games like swtor

Molagent · April 2015

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

ESO Plus is for those of us that enjoyed the feeling of paying a little bit extra every month to help beta test the game for console release and would like to ensure that console users everywhere have a bug free launch and ZOS has a large enough marketing budget to attract lots of buyers to this amazing game.

Do not speak of beta and bugs around those of us who played the beta for PC. You will never know the hell we did when it came to our launch or the distortion of actually available content to us as we did. Most developers will say "Hey, here's the demo/alpha/beta give it a few runs and tell us what's good and bad. Better if you give us the code too though or just be detailed." We were locked out of the "campaign/story" quest line entirely, we found bugs that took weeks to actually address and when they were people were at a loss of how to go about things now. Adapted and moved on though.
Another thing...Where is that information at? The claim you made that ESO+ members get to play beta on consoles before anyone else.

Heromofo wrote: »

Linking from my other thread do you agree?

I see it as preorder crowns
I see no reason to subbing
I see no new content as they pointed out atleast not for the next few months
I see it is better to just buy the dlc instead of renting it and losing it if i dont sub
I see the exp bonus worthless like srsly worthless lol it does not event make the smallest dent

Zos are you seeing the picture i mean i love b2p but dont you want subs?

Idea 1. Each month get x amount of gold
Idea 2. Each week gain 3 cp that your subbed
Idea 3. Instead of 10 make it 25 percent and make it affect alot more
Idea 4. Make it so if you sub for 6 months the dlc in that release window become yours to keep

We want to give you more money zos just make it worth our time
We do love ya zos and we do love eso just help us to help you

PS check out the models of other b2p games and even some f2p games like swtor

Not a fantastic display, but better than about 82% of those who post reasons instead of ideas for Zenimax to never take up on because they don't seem to understand how player reactions can actually effect a game yet.

RazzPitazz · April 2015

The beta on console comment, I believe, was a jab at ZoS; the PC product was a beta for console launch.
Really I wanna know who pulls the strings at ZoS. Matt F makes a lot of public announcements That have no real weight to them. We get more real information from the random guest spots on ESO Live.

hamgatan · April 2015

Molagent wrote: »

Do not speak of beta and bugs around those of us who played the beta for PC. You will never know the hell we did when it came to our launch or the distortion of actually available content to us as we did. Most developers will say "Hey, here's the demo/alpha/beta give it a few runs and tell us what's good and bad. Better if you give us the code too though or just be detailed." We were locked out of the "campaign/story" quest line entirely, we found bugs that took weeks to actually address and when they were people were at a loss of how to go about things now. Adapted and moved on though.
Another thing...Where is that information at? The claim you made that ESO+ members get to play beta on consoles before anyone else.

you realise he was taking the p1ss yes?

hamgatan · April 2015

delete - double post

Wolfshead · April 2015

It is up to everyone to do what want with there money but for some the think it is worth pay every month and other dont like that is ok i'm not judage anyone it is up to them but i think it is fun the argument why the not pay every month i was read other post about this and some of argument was fun to read.

But as my dad use to say "If you dont want to support anyone by voting or in our case pay every month it then you dont have right to whine about there decision or in this case how bad game work is"

And honest it is some true about those word he say for most argument was how bad the think game is and dont want pay for game that dont which i understand but it will take longer time fix those problem that dont work for the get less money but again it is up to everyone do what the want with there money ofc but again think about this.

Less money mean fix problem with game with take longer time to fix.

But yes be ESO+ member today dont feel so reward for some people which is ok but i think it will better down road when work out what want to add to ESO+ membership

RazzPitazz · April 2015

If I didnt vote because the final 2 are sh!t politicians, I have a right to complain that they are sh!t politicians.

Heromofo · April 2015

Molagent wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

ESO Plus is for those of us that enjoyed the feeling of paying a little bit extra every month to help beta test the game for console release and would like to ensure that console users everywhere have a bug free launch and ZOS has a large enough marketing budget to attract lots of buyers to this amazing game.

Do not speak of beta and bugs around those of us who played the beta for PC. You will never know the hell we did when it came to our launch or the distortion of actually available content to us as we did. Most developers will say "Hey, here's the demo/alpha/beta give it a few runs and tell us what's good and bad. Better if you give us the code too though or just be detailed." We were locked out of the "campaign/story" quest line entirely, we found bugs that took weeks to actually address and when they were people were at a loss of how to go about things now. Adapted and moved on though.
Another thing...Where is that information at? The claim you made that ESO+ members get to play beta on consoles before anyone else.

Heromofo wrote: »

Linking from my other thread do you agree?

I see it as preorder crowns
I see no reason to subbing
I see no new content as they pointed out atleast not for the next few months
I see it is better to just buy the dlc instead of renting it and losing it if i dont sub
I see the exp bonus worthless like srsly worthless lol it does not event make the smallest dent

Zos are you seeing the picture i mean i love b2p but dont you want subs?

Idea 1. Each month get x amount of gold
Idea 2. Each week gain 3 cp that your subbed
Idea 3. Instead of 10 make it 25 percent and make it affect alot more
Idea 4. Make it so if you sub for 6 months the dlc in that release window become yours to keep

We want to give you more money zos just make it worth our time
We do love ya zos and we do love eso just help us to help you

PS check out the models of other b2p games and even some f2p games like swtor

Not a fantastic display, but better than about 82% of those who post reasons instead of ideas for Zenimax to never take up on because they don't seem to understand how player reactions can actually effect a game yet.

Yar thanks bud but it has also been pointed out that there is a simple fix to this all.
Step 1 double the stats of eso plus
Step 2 make it so if you subscribe for 6 months then any dlc in that time is yours to keep after
Step 3 enjoy the extra income and support
Step 4 put more money towards the dlc pumping to gain more subs add in crown store cash and the game starts to become a major player again

Yolokin_Swagonborn · April 2015

hamgatan wrote: »

Molagent wrote: »

Do not speak of beta and bugs around those of us who played the beta for PC. You will never know the hell we did when it came to our launch or the distortion of actually available content to us as we did. Most developers will say "Hey, here's the demo/alpha/beta give it a few runs and tell us what's good and bad. Better if you give us the code too though or just be detailed." We were locked out of the "campaign/story" quest line entirely, we found bugs that took weeks to actually address and when they were people were at a loss of how to go about things now. Adapted and moved on though.
Another thing...Where is that information at? The claim you made that ESO+ members get to play beta on consoles before anyone else.

you realise he was taking the p1ss yes?

Whooosh

P.I. Staker at your service.

Bouvin · April 2015

If ZoS would get off their butts and release some content income wouldn't be as much of an issue.

I mean... it's like a restaurant that's only open 2 nights a week expecting people to "donate" money for the other 5 nights...

You wanna make money? You gotta earn it. And that means actually doing the work that creates the value.

Right now the game is just in maintenance mode.. no work is being done on creating additional value. They are doing just enough to get by.. no more.

Edit: spelling

desciviib14_ESO · April 2015

A subscription is support! It's one of a number of ways of supporting something financially and financial support is only one of many ways to support something. I think a bit of the distortion is in the way the word "support" is being changed to sound like people want hugs for paying for a product that is no longer acceptable. Of course ZOS wants and NEEDS support, if they don't have support then the game WILL go belly up. Support is interchange with money or customer and a business needs customers and their money to support itself or it will fail.

Bouvin · April 2015

desciviib14_ESO wrote: »

A subscription is support! It's one of a number of ways of supporting something financially and financial support is only one of many ways to support something. I think a bit of the distortion is in the way the word "support" is being changed to sound like people want hugs for paying for a product that is no longer acceptable. Of course ZOS wants and NEEDS support, if they don't have support then the game WILL go belly up. Support is interchange with money or customer and a business needs customers and their money to support itself or it will fail.

Actually, if ZoS was smart they'd just create something of value that people would "want" to pay for.

That's how most business operate. Not by guilting people into supporting them...

Heromofo · April 2015

Bouvin wrote: »

desciviib14_ESO wrote: »

A subscription is support! It's one of a number of ways of supporting something financially and financial support is only one of many ways to support something. I think a bit of the distortion is in the way the word "support" is being changed to sound like people want hugs for paying for a product that is no longer acceptable. Of course ZOS wants and NEEDS support, if they don't have support then the game WILL go belly up. Support is interchange with money or customer and a business needs customers and their money to support itself or it will fail.

Actually, if ZoS was smart they'd just create something of value that people would "want" to pay for.

That's how most business operate. Not by guilting people into supporting them...

Yup they can start my doing this while releasing dlc lol.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/168807/multi-tiered-subscription-model-requesting-feedback#latest

Bouvin · April 2015

Heromofo wrote: »

Bouvin wrote: »

desciviib14_ESO wrote: »

A subscription is support! It's one of a number of ways of supporting something financially and financial support is only one of many ways to support something. I think a bit of the distortion is in the way the word "support" is being changed to sound like people want hugs for paying for a product that is no longer acceptable. Of course ZOS wants and NEEDS support, if they don't have support then the game WILL go belly up. Support is interchange with money or customer and a business needs customers and their money to support itself or it will fail.

Actually, if ZoS was smart they'd just create something of value that people would "want" to pay for.

That's how most business operate. Not by guilting people into supporting them...

Yup they can start my doing this while releasing dlc lol.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/168807/multi-tiered-subscription-model-requesting-feedback#latest

Thing is, where is the DLC?

9+ months ago at Quake Con they showed off Imperial City, Wrothgar, Murkmire, Spell Crafting, Osinium, and the Enforcer part of the Justice system.

Where is the content?

What is the freaking hold up?

Imperial City

https://youtu.be/69ABAiQ87qA

Murkmire Adventure Zone

https://youtu.be/OGANBTnrSHM

Wrothgar and Osinium

https://youtu.be/bqivTnEteG0

Spellcrafting

Justice System with Enforcer System
Note: At 2:45 he talks about the Enforcer PvP system

https://youtu.be/zAFdcsmJlKE

desciviib14_ESO · April 2015

Bouvin wrote: »

desciviib14_ESO wrote: »

A subscription is support! It's one of a number of ways of supporting something financially and financial support is only one of many ways to support something. I think a bit of the distortion is in the way the word "support" is being changed to sound like people want hugs for paying for a product that is no longer acceptable. Of course ZOS wants and NEEDS support, if they don't have support then the game WILL go belly up. Support is interchange with money or customer and a business needs customers and their money to support itself or it will fail.

Actually, if ZoS was smart they'd just create something of value that people would "want" to pay for.

That's how most business operate. Not by guilting people into supporting them...

I agree 100% though not sure that that's how most businesses DO operate but it should be the way they operate but even in those cases the consumer has a job to refuse to buy those products until they are what they want. With the exception being those services which you have no choice in like cable, etc...

Heromofo · April 2015

Bouvin wrote: »

Heromofo wrote: »

Bouvin wrote: »

desciviib14_ESO wrote: »

A subscription is support! It's one of a number of ways of supporting something financially and financial support is only one of many ways to support something. I think a bit of the distortion is in the way the word "support" is being changed to sound like people want hugs for paying for a product that is no longer acceptable. Of course ZOS wants and NEEDS support, if they don't have support then the game WILL go belly up. Support is interchange with money or customer and a business needs customers and their money to support itself or it will fail.

Actually, if ZoS was smart they'd just create something of value that people would "want" to pay for.

That's how most business operate. Not by guilting people into supporting them...

Yup they can start my doing this while releasing dlc lol.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/168807/multi-tiered-subscription-model-requesting-feedback#latest

Thing is, where is the DLC?

9+ months ago at Quake Con they showed off Imperial City, Wrothgar, Murkmire, Spell Crafting, Osinium, and the Enforcer part of the Justice system.

Where is the content?

What is the freaking hold up?

Imperial City
https://youtu.be/69ABAiQ87qA

Murkmire Adventure Zone
https://youtu.be/OGANBTnrSHM

Wrothgar and Osinium
https://youtu.be/bqivTnEteG0

Spellcrafting

Justice System with Enforcer System
Note: At 2:45 he talks about the Enforcer PvP system
https://youtu.be/zAFdcsmJlKE

Oo dont worry your post has made me insanely angry as i had not seen them before. I was not aware they were that close to been ready that long ago. So pretty pissed off that ita been so long but hey im looking to the future im swapping to console as it looks alot better than the pc version. Then id love to throw money at them but i hate mounts,pets and costumes so i hope they put in the multi tier subscription so i still can.

Anyway my rant is over lol.

AlnilamE · April 2015

Heromofo wrote: »

Linking from my other thread do you agree?

I see it as preorder crowns
I see no reason to subbing
I see no new content as they pointed out atleast not for the next few months
I see it is better to just buy the dlc instead of renting it and losing it if i dont sub
I see the exp bonus worthless like srsly worthless lol it does not event make the smallest dent

Zos are you seeing the picture i mean i love b2p but dont you want subs?

Idea 1. Each month get x amount of gold
Idea 2. Each week gain 3 cp that your subbed
Idea 3. Instead of 10 make it 25 percent and make it affect alot more
Idea 4. Make it so if you sub for 6 months the dlc in that release window become yours to keep

We want to give you more money zos just make it worth our time
We do love ya zos and we do love eso just help us to help you

PS check out the models of other b2p games and even some f2p games like swtor

I don't. I think your suggestions would be too much. Yes, there should be a small perk to subscribing, but 25% more character advancement and 12 CP a month for doing nothing? That's too much.

I actually like the subs the way they are now. I get a small perk that doesn't feel like P2W, I get crowns that I can use if they ever put something in the Crown Store that I want to buy, and if they don't then I'll just use them to buy the DLC.

All I need from ZOS is some new content.

Jitterbug · April 2015

Molagent wrote: »

Do not speak of beta and bugs around those of us who played the beta for PC. You will never know the hell we did when it came to our launch or the distortion of actually available content to us as we did. Most developers will say "Hey, here's the demo/alpha/beta give it a few runs and tell us what's good and bad. Better if you give us the code too though or just be detailed." We were locked out of the "campaign/story" quest line entirely, we found bugs that took weeks to actually address and when they were people were at a loss of how to go about things now.

Yeah, I know, those were bad times. It was an MMO launch though so really nothing unexpected...

nimander99 · April 2015

Im one of the people who has said many times that i support this game by subscribing but I have never meant that as charity to a poor bunch of people and I dont think anyone else has, we are voting with our money its pure and simple. If no one spent a cent on this game it would die within a month...

Sir, your argument is pure non-sense.

Molagent · May 2015

nimander99 wrote: »

Im one of the people who has said many times that i support this game by subscribing but I have never meant that as charity to a poor bunch of people and I dont think anyone else has, we are voting with our money its pure and simple. If no one spent a cent on this game it would die within a month...

Sir, your argument is pure non-sense.

No actually it wouldn't. From pre-sales of both games, upgrades, etc. The game should be able to pay out the employees just fine for at least 3 or so months. Regardlessly then, if that is your case then don't you think it oughta just go back to being buy-to-play along with a subscription?

Bouvin wrote: »

If ZoS would get off their butts and release some content income wouldn't be as much of an issue.

I mean... it's like a restaurant that's only open 2 nights a week expecting people to "donate" money for the other 5 nights...

You wanna make money? You gotta earn it. And that means actually doing the work that creates the value.

Right now the game is just in maintenance mode.. no work is being done on creating additional value. They are doing just enough to get by.. no more.

Edit: spelling

I wouldn't even say that. I've yet to see any game or developers ever release patch notes for games entirely after the patch. WIthout a doubt there's some "stealth patching" this is usually for harsh bugs such as duplication, hacks, and ban waves. That's what every "maintenance" is practically... Nothing but stealth patching because no one knows what the hell is going to happen next. It shouldn't be an acceptable practice yet for some unknown reason to me it is. They've proven enough times so far these "maintenances" end up being patches and they're coming on a weekly basis like Steam going on a sale..