Roll dodge is just ridiculous and is destroying PVP

psufan5 · April 2015

One player should not be able to fend off 10 other players in PVP simply because you cannot touch them. No melee range attack should be able to be roll dodged. Roll dodge should be to get away from someone (and get out of range), or to avoid ranged attacks. If you are still in range of a weapon attack, you should be hit. Maybe take slightly less damage, but it should not miss completely 100% of the time. Currently, you can roll around someone for 10 minutes and they cannot hit you until you run out of stamina (yes I know there are a couple powers in the game that can actually hit them but 95% cannot). PVP should not be about who can stack the most shields and roll around the map the most. The problem is magnified even more when your opponent has shields. Breaking through the shields takes time as it is, but now even more time when you can't even make contact with them due to them joining their kindergarten tumbling class.

Beating the dead horse here, but this is seriously killing PVP.

Fixes:

1. Put a cool down on rolling and slightly increase the distance traveled (supposed to get you of of range) - say maybe 2 seconds. Grant 3 seconds of sprint after the roll at no stamina cost. (Bow passive will still increase the speed at which you sprint). This is countered by gap closers - everything should have a counter.
2. Instead of missing a person in melee range who just rolled, apply a damage reduction.
3. Range attacks can still be dodged and should be the purpose of rolling
4. AOE attacks should hit anyone rolling providing they are still in the radius of the effect

Nivzruo_ESO · April 2015

So what I'm getting from this is that Sorcs are OP and 20k CF & 15k overload light attacks are too much when hiding behind a 30k hard ward and we need to nerf sorcs into the ground? Did that just about sum it up? Also I agree sorcs are out of control.

theweakminded · April 2015

Your suggestions equal the death of stamp builds. Stamp healing is limited and roll is about all they get. As soon as they do something about magicka builds being able to heal through a handful of people, maybe... but that is a big maybe.

Odd place for it but use logic for a moment... you expect an attack or spell to magnetically attract to its target? Dodging makes a lot more sense than a dmg reduction. And just like healing, dodge rolling means the person is doing no damage and wasting offensive resource.

Shadesofkin · April 2015

((self edit: having read this after the fact it sounds meaner than I intend))

Rook_Master · April 2015

This is why I usually end up simply spamming Radiant Destruction.

It's the one thing you can count on to get around Reflective Scales and Roll Dodge.

SanderBuraas · April 2015

Keep in mind, players who build themselves to be able to roll dodge a lot has a lot of stamina recovery, meaning they have to sacrifice potential damage or other bonuses for it.

Nivzruo_ESO wrote: »

So what I'm getting from this is that Sorcs are OP and 20k CF & 15k overload light attacks are too much when hiding behind a 30k hard ward and we need to nerf sorcs into the ground? Did that just about sum it up? Also I agree sorcs are out of control.

Please. The numbers you posted are way out of proportion. Anyway, it is really easy to counter spell projectiles and casters, almost every class and even a weapon skill line has reflect and absorb skills.

Emma_Overload · April 2015

The only thing killing PvP is PvP. Which is also killing PvE, by the way.

Dodge rolling is already so expensive I can only do it TWICE before running out of Stamina. NO MORE NERFS!

deepseamk20b14_ESO · April 2015

Its annoying yes. But I do it to. Reducing damage instead of full damage is no different than blocking....why would they make this change? Makes no sense. The one and only thing I kind of agree with you is AoE damage not being dodged. It wouldn't break most fights but would at least stop the annoying "following a person for 5 minutes with a group of 20 but can't kill the guy". In this case, perhaps instead of a complete dodge its reduced damage. But certainly not against single target skills. Single target skills whether melee of ranged need to be able to be fully dodged.

Helluin · April 2015

The issue imho is not dodge roll or damage shields.
Some players wanted softcaps removed and these are the results.

Both are good mechanics but without softcaps you can keep using shields and dodge roll, if you build accordingly for that.

Psychobunni · April 2015

The only thing that is ever going to stop the nerf calls from pvp, is if they expanded the pvp skill lines (like 8-10 lines) and while within *Cryodiil* those are the only skills you can use.

Completely balanced, everyone has the same options to play with. (imo)

Kublakan · April 2015

Personally, I never had any problem taking down someone rolling all around. Actually, I like it when they start doing it.

Mettaricana · April 2015

honestly if all they doing is tumble weeding just find someone else to kill if they aren't doing anything useful obviously can't attack when rolling so they just there to draw your attention off the bigger threats like those who tank and attack like a freight train

Sylvyr · April 2015

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

The only thing killing PvP is PvP. Which is also killing PvE, by the way.

You mean ZoS?

Athas24 · April 2015

Dodging takes some skill, investment in resources and makes way more sense than simply using spell shields or armor buffs. I think it's pretty slick when people dodge my attacks correctly. Blocking, interrupting, synergy and dodge rolls make this game a large part of what it is. I'd be ticked if things were nerfed or removed from those categories. It makes this game unique

Lorkhan · April 2015

psufan5 wrote: »

One player should not be able to fend off 10 other players in PVP simply because you cannot touch them. No melee range attack should be able to be roll dodged. Roll dodge should be to get away from someone (and get out of range), or to avoid ranged attacks. If you are still in range of a weapon attack, you should be hit. Maybe take slightly less damage, but it should not miss completely 100% of the time. Currently, you can roll around someone for 10 minutes and they cannot hit you until you run out of stamina (yes I know there are a couple powers in the game that can actually hit them but 95% cannot). PVP should not be about who can stack the most shields and roll around the map the most. The problem is magnified even more when your opponent has shields. Breaking through the shields takes time as it is, but now even more time when you can't even make contact with them due to them joining their kindergarten tumbling class.

Beating the dead horse here, but this is seriously killing PVP.

Fixes:

1. Put a cool down on rolling and slightly increase the distance traveled (supposed to get you of of range) - say maybe 2 seconds. Grant 3 seconds of sprint after the roll at no stamina cost. (Bow passive will still increase the speed at which you sprint). This is countered by gap closers - everything should have a counter.
2. Instead of missing a person in melee range who just rolled, apply a damage reduction.
3. Range attacks can still be dodged and should be the purpose of rolling
4. AOE attacks should hit anyone rolling providing they are still in the radius of the effect

"insightful"

reften · April 2015

Kublakan wrote: »

Personally, I never had any problem taking down someone rolling all around. Actually, I like it when they start doing it.

Agree 100% here. This isn't a run-of-the-mill FPS like call of duty. Players have a way to defend themselves whether it's dark cloak, bolt escape, mist, dodge roll, etc etc etc etc. and I like it that way.

Move on to the next target, leave them, they're a distraction. I like some tactics in PVP. Not just aim, shot kill, rinse and repeat.

Note that they eventually will run out of stamina

OdinForge · April 2015

Does no one think to pop agony, encase or petrify on dodgers? Throw down caltrops to cover an area, apply abilities like radiant destruction or soul assault or inevitable detonation that cannot be dodged? Take advantage of several single target abilities like lava whip or concealed weapon that hit through roll dodge.

Edit Gotta L2P instead of throwing out half thought out nerfs on the boards. There are stamina builds that don't run high regen, that need every bit out of roll dodge. As it stands even with regen, you'd be surprised how fast these people are getting low on stamina and all it takes is some smart CC and/or knowing how to counter.

Sylvyr · April 2015

psufan5 wrote: »

One player should not be able to fend off 10 other players in PVP simply because you cannot touch them. No melee range attack should be able to be roll dodged. Roll dodge should be to get away from someone (and get out of range), or to avoid ranged attacks. If you are still in range of a weapon attack, you should be hit. Maybe take slightly less damage, but it should not miss completely 100% of the time. Currently, you can roll around someone for 10 minutes and they cannot hit you until you run out of stamina (yes I know there are a couple powers in the game that can actually hit them but 95% cannot). PVP should not be about who can stack the most shields and roll around the map the most. The problem is magnified even more when your opponent has shields. Breaking through the shields takes time as it is, but now even more time when you can't even make contact with them due to them joining their kindergarten tumbling class.

Beating the dead horse here, but this is seriously killing PVP.

Fixes:

1. Put a cool down on rolling and slightly increase the distance traveled (supposed to get you of of range) - say maybe 2 seconds. Grant 3 seconds of sprint after the roll at no stamina cost. (Bow passive will still increase the speed at which you sprint). This is countered by gap closers - everything should have a counter.
2. Instead of missing a person in melee range who just rolled, apply a damage reduction.
3. Range attacks can still be dodged and should be the purpose of rolling
4. AOE attacks should hit anyone rolling providing they are still in the radius of the effect

Seriously? Are you annoyed that you can't kill someone in under 3 seconds is that what this is about? Mad that someone is using a defensive skill? A skill that anyone can use? And before you say yeah well stam build can use it a lot more, well sure and they are 1) using up resources to do it that could be used offensively 2) Other defensive abilities are much better like indefinite shield stacking. How about those DKs that take 20 people to kill? How about that damn NBs that can cloak out of a fight? Or damn sorcs that can blink away. Grrrr.

Yes nerf all defensive abilities so we all fight the same way and stand toe to toe with each other, thanks.

Some classes/builds are glass cannons, some are tanky, some are hit and run (escapey), some are in your face, some are single target heavy, CC heavy, AoE heavy, some are healy...

Dodge roll, IMHO, is not unfair, nor OP.

Lorkhan · April 2015

OdinForge wrote: »

Does no one think to pop agony, encase or petrify on dodgers? Throw down caltrops to cover an area, apply abilities like radiant destruction or soul assault or inevitable detonation that cannot be dodged? Take advantage of several single target abilities like lava whip or concealed weapon that hit through roll dodge.

this

lihentian · April 2015

the real killer is slaughter fish..where we can't even fight back..

reften · April 2015

Lorkhan wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

Does no one think to pop agony, encase or petrify on dodgers? Throw down caltrops to cover an area, apply abilities like radiant destruction or soul assault or inevitable detonation that cannot be dodged? Take advantage of several single target abilities like lava whip or concealed weapon that hit through roll dodge.

this

Complaining on the forums is easier, get this logic out of here

Sylvyr · April 2015

OdinForge wrote: »

Does no one think to pop agony, encase or petrify on dodgers? Throw down caltrops to cover an area, apply abilities like radiant destruction or soul assault or inevitable detonation that cannot be dodged? Take advantage of several single target abilities like lava whip or concealed weapon that hit through roll dodge.

Edit Gotta L2P instead of throwing out half thought out nerfs on the boards. There are stamina builds that don't run high regen, that need every bit out of roll dodge. As it stands even with regen, you'd be surprised how fast these people are getting low on stamina and all it takes is some smart CC and/or knowing how to counter.

Some of these things shouldn't hit through roll dodge

Davadin · April 2015

no its not.

my wrecking blow and snipe can still hit someone who roll dodge.

and 90% of the population can't roll dodge forever. use some form of crowd-control so they use their own stamina.

i was destroyed yesterday by someone who spammed BASH and lava whip while blocking. Heloooo, is this April 2014?? still an issue and bigger than roll-dodging.

daemonios · April 2015

psufan5 wrote: »

One player should not be able to fend off 10 other players in PVP simply because you cannot touch them. No melee range attack should be able to be roll dodged. Roll dodge should be to get away from someone (and get out of range), or to avoid ranged attacks. If you are still in range of a weapon attack, you should be hit. Maybe take slightly less damage, but it should not miss completely 100% of the time. Currently, you can roll around someone for 10 minutes and they cannot hit you until you run out of stamina (yes I know there are a couple powers in the game that can actually hit them but 95% cannot). PVP should not be about who can stack the most shields and roll around the map the most. The problem is magnified even more when your opponent has shields. Breaking through the shields takes time as it is, but now even more time when you can't even make contact with them due to them joining their kindergarten tumbling class.

Beating the dead horse here, but this is seriously killing PVP.

Fixes:

1. Put a cool down on rolling and slightly increase the distance traveled (supposed to get you of of range) - say maybe 2 seconds. Grant 3 seconds of sprint after the roll at no stamina cost. (Bow passive will still increase the speed at which you sprint). This is countered by gap closers - everything should have a counter.
2. Instead of missing a person in melee range who just rolled, apply a damage reduction.
3. Range attacks can still be dodged and should be the purpose of rolling
4. AOE attacks should hit anyone rolling providing they are still in the radius of the effect

Either I'm very mistaken, or this is a snarky jab at the recent comeback of "BOLT ESCAPE OP PLEASE NERF NOW" posts. If that's the case:

If not, it makes me think the whiners in these here forums are on the rise...

Bfish22090 · April 2015

If people are complaining that

Staminda dodge roller nightblades are op
Shield stacking bolt escaping sorcs are op
Jesus bean templars are op
Dragon wing lava whipping dks are op

Doesn't that mean the game is balanced if all classes are op?

Heromofo · April 2015

Bfish22090 wrote: »

If people are complaining that

Staminda dodge roller nightblades are op
Shield stacking bolt escaping sorcs are op
Jesus bean templars are op
Dragon wing lava whipping dks are op

Doesn't that mean the game is balanced if all classes are op?

Didnt you know if someone cant play a certain build all other builds are op lol.

joshisanonymous · April 2015

psufan5 wrote: »

No melee range attack should be able to be roll dodged.

Weird. That's the type of attack which I most think should be able to be dodged. It makes perfect sense that dodging would avoid melee attacks of any sort.

My guess is that you're a bow user and would rather have dodging nerfed (which would effectively be a nerf to every player in the game, btw) instead of simply adjusting your own build to better handle these players.

JWKe · April 2015

why Nerf? Why not just make everyone OP

Davadin · April 2015

Bfish22090 wrote: »

If people are complaining that

Staminda dodge roller nightblades are op
Shield stacking bolt escaping sorcs are op
Jesus bean templars are op
Dragon wing lava whipping dks are op

Doesn't that mean the game is balanced if all classes are op?

no, lava whipping got nerfed. DK isn't OP anymore. the flappy wing too. heck, even flappy leap is nerfed.

only thing we got is.... weapon skills? wrecking blow or fire-destro build?

no, oh, oh, oh! we got Green Dragon Blood.

noobfury · April 2015

Try rolling through a hit from a a Ballista which is typically the stand by skill of choice when someone is losing.

Father · April 2015

Roll dodge is effective and brought a new way to survive in PVP. I don't want to fight robots standing still I actualy enjoy the chase of a target and the fight feels more alive unlike fighting NPC.
Don't expect to put on all your DPS gear and be able to survive in PVP this is not PVE and no way ppl wanna fight boring targets.
I don't have that much stamina recovery on my magicka DK but still roll dodge when needed. so you want to nerf it so classes with no escape skills can be weaker no?