Vet XP is broken now, math included

Cuyler · April 2015

I want to begin by apologizing for not reading the entire thread, it's simply too long and seems to rehash a lot of the same points. What I can gather A) some do everything and are not able to get to v14 and/or b) some do everything and can get to v14. Anyways I'm not going to comment on that but on a related topic I believe effects this. Here we go....

So certain addons will show in the HUD how much XP your getting per kill. Most of the time mine will report I'm getting ~455 XP per kill. Here's the problem....

I've noticed when approaching a mob of 3 NPCs, simply disintegrating all 3 at the same time, that I get an extreme variance in the XP received, sometimes only 455 XP per mob, sometimes 910 XP per mob sometimes the full amount. In contrast if I "slowly" kill each NPC one-by-one (even if separated by a millisecond), that every single time each NPC gives 455 XP per kill (aka 1365 XP per mob). This is a huge difference and I think could be why some get to v14 with the available content and some do not.

If you're character is burning down a mob so fast you don't break a sweat it's possible that you're receiving 1/3 the XP per mob you should be. If you're character is slightly slower at burning mobs and generally the mob composition dies at separate times you'll have received the full amount of XP possible.

@ZOS, @ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_JessicaFolsom I've noticed this directly through the XP bar as well with the native UI so I don't believe it to be an addon issue. Is this intended? Please advise.

I don't have the capability to record video but will try to get my guildie to post one as everyone I've spoke with is experiencing this issue.

Just to clarify, this is tested solo with no one else around so there was no chance for XP sharing or diminishing returns present. Just me killing mobs testing not getting full XP credit and tested the same way with other guildies.

Ley · April 2015

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

Ley wrote: »

Oh I'm sorry, you're right, I just didn't realize that killing mobs while completing quests = grinding.

That's not what you posted.

You posted that you kill an additional 5-15 (avg 10) mobs per quest more than required while completing a zone. That's grinding.

By your own post, you kill 300-900 (avg 600) more mobs (per zone) than people who just kill the regular amount of mobs during questing.

Killing 300-900 more mobs than you would while doing the content normally = grinding.

This is exactly what I've been posting for pages and pages and pages. People claiming there is enough XP are grinding, EVEN IF UNINTENTIONALLY DOING SO.

You are the case in point.

You and I have very different definitions of what exactly grinding is. I have played mmos that required grinding, where reaching max level was measure in years, not weeks. Where you needed to kill hundreds of thousands of mobs that were not a part of any quest, to level. I even grinded on my first eso character, not because I had to but because I wanted to reach end game pvp faster; I didn't even touch cadwells silver/gold until my 2nd character.

Killing a few extra mobs per quest is not "unintentionally grinding."
Avoiding mobs, in an effort to rush past content and then having to make up for it by running in a circle for 8 hours killing the same groups of mobs over and over again, racking up thousands of kills; that's grinding.

I'm trying to figure out what it is you expect from this game.
You want to be able to just complete dolmens and world bosses to achieve max level in a couple of days?
Do you not expect to have to kill any mobs outside of the bare minimum required to complete quests?
Do you just enjoy whining?

Somehow I expect your response will be, "OMG YOU KILLED MOBS THAT WERE NOT DIRECTLY A PART OF A QUEST, PROOF THAT THE GAME FORCES YOU TO GRIND, THE GAME IS BROKEN!!!!!"
That's what you sound like to me.

onlinegamer1 · April 2015

Ley wrote: »

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

Ley wrote: »

Oh I'm sorry, you're right, I just didn't realize that killing mobs while completing quests = grinding.

That's not what you posted.

You posted that you kill an additional 5-15 (avg 10) mobs per quest more than required while completing a zone. That's grinding.

By your own post, you kill 300-900 (avg 600) more mobs (per zone) than people who just kill the regular amount of mobs during questing.

Killing 300-900 more mobs than you would while doing the content normally = grinding.

This is exactly what I've been posting for pages and pages and pages. People claiming there is enough XP are grinding, EVEN IF UNINTENTIONALLY DOING SO.

You are the case in point.

You and I have very different definitions of what exactly grinding is. I have played mmos that required grinding, where reaching max level was measure in years, not weeks. Where you needed to kill hundreds of thousands of mobs that were not a part of any quest, to level. I even grinded on my first eso character, not because I had to but because I wanted to reach end game pvp faster; I didn't even touch cadwells silver/gold until my 2nd character.

Killing a few extra mobs per quest is not "unintentionally grinding."
Avoiding mobs, in an effort to rush past content and then having to make up for it by running in a circle for 8 hours killing the same groups of mobs over and over again, racking up thousands of kills; that's grinding.

I'm trying to figure out what it is you expect from this game.
You want to be able to just complete dolmens and world bosses to achieve max level in a couple of days?
Do you not expect to have to kill any mobs outside of the bare minimum required to complete quests?
Do you just enjoy whining?

Somehow I expect your response will be, "OMG YOU KILLED MOBS THAT WERE NOT DIRECTLY A PART OF A QUEST, PROOF THAT THE GAME FORCES YOU TO GRIND, THE GAME IS BROKEN!!!!!"
That's what you sound like to me.

You are guilty of something a lot of people are guilty of - not reading the entire thread.

My position is that doing the content normally should give 1 VR level per VR zone. Normally means not skipping mobs, and NOT KILLING 5-15 EXTRAS....just in case. By your own numbers, those extra kills account for the shortfall most people are seeing, and our position is THEY SHOULDN'T BE REQUIRED.

Its 100% semantics if you kill them "as you go" vs "all in a long farming session", pure semantics. Its still killing extra mobs for no other reason than to kill extra mobs. That is grinding, period.

Amsel_McKay · April 2015

I notice that people who say VR is not broken say "I am VR4 now in a VR4 zone", as I have posted in the past the real VR problem is at VR9 and get worse VR10-11, that is when gold hits a WALL... mobs give almost no exp and quests exp are reduced in half. So I guess this whole post should say Vet Exp is broken VR9-14 in relation to quest PvE experience.

rfennell_ESO · April 2015

Just throwing this in here, as an update.

Vr12 about halfway through al akir.

To be clear, this is being done as follows:
Clear and complete all delves and skyshards.
Complete all zone achieves and quests.
Complete all dolmens. Kill all world bosses.
Explore entire zone and leave all marks white (obviously)

and

Kill everything in your way at all times, unless they are annoying or time consuming. If there are 20 zombies between me and a quest turn in, there are 20 zombie corpses littering the field behind me as I turn the quest in.

(10% bonus xp as well for being subscribed).

This puts me right on target for vr14 in bangkorai, probably a little bit past halfway through the zone.

I have not "grinded" past killing things in my way. I don't use exploration gear. I do use full purple gear (but I don't upgrade it often; this vr run I made a set for vr1, then made a vr8 set.. and won't replace until vr14). I admit that gearing like this makes it annihilation mode versus just about everything, even as a plate wearing melee dps magicka templar, but then again a templar only needs one skill on bar to clear everything easily.

My best friend this leveling experience: It's a toss up between puncturing sweep or Dawnbreaker of smiting.

rfennell_ESO · April 2015

Vr14 with about 1/4 of bangkorai left to do.

It's a tight window and you have to be aggressive pulling things in your way to do it and have to have the 10% xp bonus from subbing.

If you are starting as already a vr in a vr zone, you likely will need to grind or do craglorn though. Fortunately you can get good xp in cyrondil as well.

Zheg · April 2015

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Vr14 with about 1/4 of bangkorai left to do.

It's a tight window and you have to be aggressive pulling things in your way to do it and have to have the 10% xp bonus from subbing.

If you are starting as already a vr in a vr zone, you likely will need to grind or do craglorn though. Fortunately you can get good xp in cyrondil as well.

Not for nothing, but a lot of people defending the current set-up seem to be AD players, and I can pretty much guarantee that these people are leaving cadwell's gold much higher than the average.

Take into account the fact that originally silver and gold were designed to take you to v10. V14 didn't exist until craglorn was released. I'm certainly not seeing extra buffs to XP gains in silver and gold that would equate to an extra 4 levels (in fact in my zones I see the opposite).

Are the XP numbers just really that misaligned between alliances? Why has it taken 5+ weeks to get even a single word out of ZOS on this and veteran levels in general? There have been about a dozen threads on this over the past month and they just keep quiet. They opened a developer's discussion over a month ago and even that doesn't get official responses. The OP was about how dolmens and world boss XP doesn't seem to be right, and then a few weeks later when a thread opens up on how many dolmens don't give any xp, the only official response (even remotely related to xp, they avoid this like the plague) makes it sound like this is a new thing that's been discovered.

Dear ZOS devs, give your community managers the leeway to actually update us on topics you find painful. They're good at their job, and bad news is better than no news.

I know I'm not the only player who's been left in limbo for the past few weeks. I don't want to grind through this content receiving pennies on the dollar (as an analogy) if you end up saying, "hey, a lot of our xp rewards aren't scaled correctly and are being worked on." But you need to say SOMETHING - even if it's to tell us to flip off and deal with the way XP is for the next 6 months, or wait until vet levels are removed entirely.

rfennell_ESO · April 2015

My buddy recently came back and he was vr2 toward end of vr1 zone. He will likely not get to vr13 in last zone and will have to grind out last 1.25 by my guess.

I found that completing coldharbour at vr2 and starting vr1 zone at vr2 was the big difference for myself.

If you are stuck, start doing cyro quests and dungeons. Craglorn xp is so bad it's laughable.

Julianos · April 2015

Im in greenshade doing cadwell's gold im completing every quest and every dungeon/delve/dolmen/skull and im fresh veteran 9. When all quests and other stuff completed and if im not vet 14 im done with this game because im againts grinding mobs mindlessly because its not fun or brainer i got better jobs to do

. If they wanna keep champ points under control they can simply separate champ points from xp system and they can add another type of point for each npc for example ; each npc yield 100xp for veteran ranks 10 valor point for champion system and every 1000 valor point give us 1 champ point.

xDonMega · April 2015

I thought getting VR exp was bad when I quit playing this game last summer... and now I come back and it's even worse!

And now they are like progression is based on champion xp... but guess what? You still need to get vr14 in order to equip the good gear!

Huggernaut · April 2015

Going to tag a bunch of people, and hopefully we can get some sort of official response about this. No need to treat us like mushrooms, talk to us please:

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_MattFiror @ZOS_BillMueller @ZOS_PaulSage

Ya as someone who leveled pre and post 1.6 ... the xp changes are vast and deep. I've struggled with leveling from VR11-14. I've completed all the cadwell quests, all of craglorn, I've even filled in like 95% of the cyrodil map.

No one wants to do the craglorn quests, it's basically a ghost town due to the 5k xp cap. It's simply too much hassle for not enough reward. Same goes with the quests in cyrodil and grinding for 300 xp per kill and needing 1 million per level .. (SMH), ya not fun at all.

When I have the enlightenment buff, I am getting around 30k xp for a quest turn in (and a little over 1k per kill). Which is great. I find it right pretty fair, but once that buff goes away (which is quickly!), back down to 5k rewards. (and 300 xp per kill).

I said it before they added it to the game and I'll say it again, any system that is designed around a xp bonus system like enlightenment, is always horribly skewed and broken. They have the following choices in regards to it:

- remove it outright
- make it so it only starts working at VR14 (for champion point acquisitions)
- keep it, but alter it so the leveling process isn't dependant upon it

Some people claim it's all on purpose for xp pots being added to the crown store. That may or may not be true, regardless, at the end of the day you want people to play the game and right now, people don't want to play. It's as simple as that.

Main Issues I have with the game currently:

- Too little xp overall
- Crafting research times are a joke! (30 days for 1 item to research? why do we need time sinks like this? Utter nonsense!)
- Not enough account wide unlocks
- Zero incentive to create alts (in fact, the game seems entirely based on punishing you for making alts.)
- Champion points take too long to acquire (it will take YEARS for anyone but the most hardcore to complete these)
- Vet Level system is pointless (VR1-13 are a waste of time, since nothing matters until you are 14, heck people won't even look at you until you are at least 12). I understand WHY we have Vet levels, and I don't disagree on their intended role, I just disagree with the execution of said role.

These are the big ones for me, and it all revolves around xp gain for the most part. Now, I'm not saying that we should be able to max out in 48hrs, but as others have pointed out ... the game doesn't really start until VR14, the longer it takes to get there, the more people you lose along the way.

Personally, one of the biggest issues for me in the game is how tedious it is to level alts. Now don't get me wrong, I love the voice work, I love doing all the quests (I've literally completed everything in every zone .. almost, still working on some stuff hehe), but when I think about having to do it all over again from scratch to level an alt character ... I just shake my head and go "hell no!". Any game that makes it's player base actively NOT want to level alts ... is doomed.

There needs to be some sort of fast track option for people that have hit VR14 and wish to make an alt, so that they aren't required to play through 100% of every bit of the games content again just to get even close to VR14 again. I mean, I suppose you could give people an option like:

- Create new alt @ level 1 starting from scratch (for people that care / enjoy this)
- or
- Start @ VR1 with your main campaign / guilds / world / alliance / book / achievement progress saved from your current account unlocks (only possible with at least 1 VR14 character on the account)

You would still have to do cadwell silver & gold if you wanted to have them done, you would still have craglorn and cyrodil to do, but you wouldn't need to do the tedious stuff like finding all the lorebooks again, running around the map to touch all the shards, dolmens, POIs, achievements, etc All of that would be account unlocked.

I honestly think it's a small concession to make in order to incentivize players into creating alts. This (the tedious nature of creating alts) I really feel is almost the #1 issue with this game as a whole. At least for me.

Something to think about.

Cheers.

P.s. While I am writing to you all, and to go a little off topic ... but I really think the dev team needs to step up their community management game. Some ideas to facilitate this could be:

- A spoiler section where devs can hype up the community with sneak peeks at new systems, zones, costumes, pets, etc

- A Twitch livestream with different dev members each week that lasts 30mins to 1hr. You can take player questions all week in a particular post, directed at whoever that weeks guest star is, as an example on one thing you could do with this time. So one week could be gameplay mechanics, another week art, followed by lore, etc. You can also do giveaways, these cost you practically nothing and gain you a lot back in return.

- I also think it would be nice if we had some sort of regular events. These could be anything from scavenger hunts, to xp / gold / commodity boosts / increased rare item drops, to increased alliance point gains, and everything in between. Some sort of daily login reward system might not be a bad idea either.

- A suggestion and feedback section. Why don't we have this!? This SHOULD BE the lifeblood of your forums. Without fresh and constant input from your playerbase, how do you ever hope to be successful?

- Some sort of Addon incentive program. Provide us tools to help support authors that create addons for the game. This can be done with crowns to spend in the store, game time, in game gold, in game items ... really all kinds of options. I only bring this up because I feel strongly that fostering support for the amazingly talented people that write these addons can only be a good thing for the community as a whole. I've seen too many wonderful projects abandoned because their authors simply have no desire to play the game any longer. The more authors that leave the game, the harder it is for new players to get going. It's all one giant ecosystem, all the parts need nourishment.

We understand (at least I do), that this is your first real foray into the MMO marketplace and the learning curve is steep if you wish to be successful. Help us, help you, make this game the best it can be.

Zheg · April 2015

Just to point out - enlightenment doesn't affect veteran experience from my understanding. Even though your add-on might make it look that way, it only applies to champion point gains. You're still getting that paltry 5k experience for finishing the lower craglorn questline, regardless of enlightenment.

Julianos · April 2015

Huggernaut wrote: »

Going to tag a bunch of people, and hopefully we can get some sort of official response about this. No need to treat us like mushrooms, talk to us please:

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_MattFiror @ZOS_BillMueller @ZOS_PaulSage

Ya as someone who leveled pre and post 1.6 ... the xp changes are vast and deep. I've struggled with leveling from VR11-14. I've completed all the cadwell quests, all of craglorn, I've even filled in like 95% of the cyrodil map.

No one wants to do the craglorn quests, it's basically a ghost town due to the 5k xp cap. It's simply too much hassle for not enough reward. Same goes with the quests in cyrodil and grinding for 300 xp per kill and needing 1 million per level .. (SMH), ya not fun at all.

When I have the enlightenment buff, I am getting around 30k xp for a quest turn in (and a little over 1k per kill). Which is great. I find it right pretty fair, but once that buff goes away (which is quickly!), back down to 5k rewards. (and 300 xp per kill).

I said it before they added it to the game and I'll say it again, any system that is designed around a xp bonus system like enlightenment, is always horribly skewed and broken. They have the following choices in regards to it:

- remove it outright
- make it so it only starts working at VR14 (for champion point acquisitions)
- keep it, but alter it so the leveling process isn't dependant upon it

Some people claim it's all on purpose for xp pots being added to the crown store. That may or may not be true, regardless, at the end of the day you want people to play the game and right now, people don't want to play. It's as simple as that.

Main Issues I have with the game currently:

- Too little xp overall
- Crafting research times are a joke! (30 days for 1 item to research? why do we need time sinks like this? Utter nonsense!)
- Not enough account wide unlocks
- Zero incentive to create alts (in fact, the game seems entirely based on punishing you for making alts.)
- Champion points take too long to acquire (it will take YEARS for anyone but the most hardcore to complete these)
- Vet Level system is pointless (VR1-13 are a waste of time, since nothing matters until you are 14, heck people won't even look at you until you are at least 12). I understand WHY we have Vet levels, and I don't disagree on their intended role, I just disagree with the execution of said role.

These are the big ones for me, and it all revolves around xp gain for the most part. Now, I'm not saying that we should be able to max out in 48hrs, but as others have pointed out ... the game doesn't really start until VR14, the longer it takes to get there, the more people you lose along the way.

Personally, one of the biggest issues for me in the game is how tedious it is to level alts. Now don't get me wrong, I love the voice work, I love doing all the quests (I've literally completed everything in every zone .. almost, still working on some stuff hehe), but when I think about having to do it all over again from scratch to level an alt character ... I just shake my head and go "hell no!". Any game that makes it's player base actively NOT want to level alts ... is doomed.

There needs to be some sort of fast track option for people that have hit VR14 and wish to make an alt, so that they aren't required to play through 100% of every bit of the games content again just to get even close to VR14 again. I mean, I suppose you could give people an option like:

- Create new alt @ level 1 starting from scratch (for people that care / enjoy this)
- or
- Start @ VR1 with your main campaign / guilds / world / alliance / book / achievement progress saved from your current account unlocks (only possible with at least 1 VR14 character on the account)

You would still have to do cadwell silver & gold if you wanted to have them done, you would still have craglorn and cyrodil to do, but you wouldn't need to do the tedious stuff like finding all the lorebooks again, running around the map to touch all the shards, dolmens, POIs, achievements, etc All of that would be account unlocked.

I honestly think it's a small concession to make in order to incentivize players into creating alts. This (the tedious nature of creating alts) I really feel is almost the #1 issue with this game as a whole. At least for me.

Something to think about.

Cheers.

P.s. While I am writing to you all, and to go a little off topic ... but I really think the dev team needs to step up their community management game. Some ideas to facilitate this could be:

- A spoiler section where devs can hype up the community with sneak peeks at new systems, zones, costumes, pets, etc

- A Twitch livestream with different dev members each week that lasts 30mins to 1hr. You can take player questions all week in a particular post, directed at whoever that weeks guest star is, as an example on one thing you could do with this time. So one week could be gameplay mechanics, another week art, followed by lore, etc. You can also do giveaways, these cost you practically nothing and gain you a lot back in return.

- I also think it would be nice if we had some sort of regular events. These could be anything from scavenger hunts, to xp / gold / commodity boosts / increased rare item drops, to increased alliance point gains, and everything in between. Some sort of daily login reward system might not be a bad idea either.

- A suggestion and feedback section. Why don't we have this!? This SHOULD BE the lifeblood of your forums. Without fresh and constant input from your playerbase, how do you ever hope to be successful?

- Some sort of Addon incentive program. Provide us tools to help support authors that create addons for the game. This can be done with crowns to spend in the store, game time, in game gold, in game items ... really all kinds of options. I only bring this up because I feel strongly that fostering support for the amazingly talented people that write these addons can only be a good thing for the community as a whole. I've seen too many wonderful projects abandoned because their authors simply have no desire to play the game any longer. The more authors that leave the game, the harder it is for new players to get going. It's all one giant ecosystem, all the parts need nourishment.

We understand (at least I do), that this is your first real foray into the MMO marketplace and the learning curve is steep if you wish to be successful. Help us, help you, make this game the best it can be.

Totaly agreed everything you said. I think im going to wait 1 more year game systems so messed up

Huggernaut · April 2015

Zheg wrote: »

Just to point out - enlightenment doesn't affect veteran experience from my understanding. Even though your add-on might make it look that way, it only applies to champion point gains. You're still getting that paltry 5k experience for finishing the lower craglorn questline, regardless of enlightenment.

are you sure about that? I mean, you could totally be 100% correct, not saying you aren't ... however, I really feel like my leveling is faster when I have enlightenment running. If it is true though, my god, that is even worse then I thought! lol. At least before, I had the illusion of leveling faster

phreatophile · April 2015

He's right, think of champion XP as a parallel system. 400K Enlightened XP towards a champion point is 100K XP towards VR leveling.

pan_k · April 2015

Numbers aside, here's the opinion of a returning, casual player, who probably will have another long break...

XP is definitely broken, at least when compared to the situation 8 months ago. I've done only 65% of vet1, doing almost first zone in cadwell's silver. I do only the main story quests (no side quests), delves, world bosses, daily pledges (usually 2-3 times), because that's what I want to do, that's how I want to enjoy the game. I don't want to clear everything in every zone. I also tried grinding in Graglorn, so I cleared a few humanoid groups: NO EXP... Seriously? I'm vet1, clearing vet11 mobs, and I'm not rewarded?? Please, spare me the "grinding". What is grinding? Grinding for someone may be just fun for the other. Killing mobs without exploits every once in a while, or even most of the time, may be less grinding than playing like a bot linear quests, over and over again, in order to reach end game. But pledges, world bosses, and more, don't seem to award experience too. So, seriously, have they forced a timeframe of 1 year to reach vet14, maybe 2 years for casual players??

I don't know the intentions of the developers, and I don't care about the CP workarounds, but this is terrible. Trust me, I'm a CASUAL player, I don't care too much to overlevel, I don't enjoy constant grinding, but occasionally I DO like going out on my own and kill higher level mobs because I enjoy a challenge every once in a while. In the end of the day (or game session if you like), the end result should be some progress and not frustration.

IMHO, it's ridiculous to force players in such a linear sandboxed progression system. Really? "When you finish cadwell's silver you should be vet 6-7, when you finish gold you should be v10, and then craglorn for 10-14"? Next is a schedule for when we should pee, eat, sleep and work.

I started playing when the game was released, till September. There were a few annoyances, but the overall experience was generally smooth. You could just play, and eventually you could catch up with your friends/guildies so you could do higher level challenges. I never, ever, posted a complain (actually, I hadn't post ever in the forums!) during all these months, which maybe shows how easy going I am and don't get frustrated easily. But this? I've been playing almost exclusively my DK since my comeback and I'm stuck and forced into a very different gameplay, not my gameplay, I feel freedom and fun has been taken away from the game, because many people who didn't care much, now constantly thinking about leveling!! I know cause I am one of them. Worse, even though I grinded just half level with my sorc in the old days, now I'm really willing to grind constantly so I can make some progress. This, or most probably I will simply have another, very long break till this gets sorted. It seems whatever they were thinking has the opposite results...

Very, very disappointed...

Theosis · April 2015

I did every quest in the game except craglorn. I was stuck at v10 for ages. I see similar issues with this current system.

Im starting to see the point of this xp potion they are planning on.

create a potion we don't need then give us a reason to buy it.. I had no problem with the crown store for the longest time.

Grinding Cyrodiil and I am still not vet 14. that towel is starting to look more attractive.

They took no thought when back in the day we were leveling then they changed the xp needed to level but did nothing for those that were already halfway to most of the way through gold.

GaldorP · April 2015

To add some more data:

I had an AD character that was VR 1 with almost no XP towards VR 2 when Update 6 was released.

That character had completed all content that rewards XP in Khenarthi's Roost, Auridon, Grahtwood, Greenshade, Malabal Tor, and the main quests + some side quests in Coldharbour before Update 6 was released. She had skipped Reaper's March entirely and had also skipped about half of the optional content in Coldharbour to be pretty much exactly VR 1 with 0 XP when Update 6 would launch.

This character has now completed all one-time XP content in the VR 1 and VR 6-10 zones (including all starter islands), and she has completed all Cadwell's Silver quests, solo delves, dark anchors, world bosses, public dungeon quests and group challenges in the VR 2-5 zones (but skipped all other quests in these zones). She's also completed all the content in Reaper's March and the remaining content in Coldharbour after Update 6 was released. Finally, she's also gained about .3 veteran ranks from doing content in Cyrodiil.

That character is now exactly VR 12 and 0%, after completing the content mentioned above. However, she definitely killed more monsters than needed for the quests in the VR 6-10 zones. And she also had the ESO Plus 10% XP bonus for all that content.

After this character had completed all the content mentioned above and reached VR 12 I also did one delve in Craglorn to check the XP reward for completing a Craglorn delve for the first time: It's around 5k XP now (I remember a time when it was over 100k XP). Completing Seeker's Archive for the first time rewards about 24k XP now.

Zheg · April 2015

All we'll have is anecdotal evidence at this point. ZOS seems to have their head up their ... neck, and think it's ok to leave things as is for another couple of months. Don't know how many people and how many different ways of saying it it will take for them to realize they can simply reduce the XP needed for each vet level so people are leveling at rates similar to what they were at launch. I can understand not wanting to fiddle with the XP numbers themselves as that could take effort, and would be more or less wasted when vet levels are removed, but all they'd have to do is figure out what's a good baseline and reduce the 1 million xp per level to something else while we wait for them to finish up console and start the last phase of vet level removal.

I got my temp to level up to v8, so he was starting at a fresh level. I did full map completion of Shadowfen, a decently large zone, and ended up with <750k XP. This included a little bit of pvp, and was done with the +10% xp sub bonus, and some +xp buffs from keeps from home campaign. @ZOS_GinaBruno , you said in another thread you would dig into problems people were having with XP and I hadn't seen anything yet. Is there any chance we'll get traction on ZOS improving the XP/vet leveling situation while we wait for you to remove vet levels? I can grind with the best of them, but it seems like the devs are insistent on repeating the same mistakes with the new players that joined when the game went BTP that they did when the game first launched. It would be nice to NOT see a bunch of new and returning players leaving the game (again) because the leveling experience is miserable after 50 and it's like pulling teeth to get the devs to do anything about it. This should be considered a low hanging fruit for you guys that would have significant impact - I'm literally baffled why we haven't seen communication and action on this over the past 6+ weeks.

If we're being realistic, you're going to have your hands full with console, and all of the problems you aren't anticipating, followed by working on the actual removal of vet levels. I don't think it's farfetched to guess that we'll have to wait about another 5 more months or so before we see this in game. Why do you guys think it's a good business decision to leave things the way they are? Even if the devs are stubborn on the v1-10 grind, no one can honestly say that craglorn will still get you from v10 to v14, and you've left it in it's current broken state for waaaaay too long.

Yasha · April 2015

I wish I could just stop levelling at level 49 and play at that level for ever... what is there waiting for me past that? Grinding quests in other factions where I already have alts, getting pawned in VET pvp, and....anything fun waiting after 49? I guess the new armor and weapons are nice to wear ascetically.

Robotmafia · April 2015

Zheg wrote: »

In the attempt to prevent and nerf potential xp exploits for champion point gains, ZOS has actually broken veteran leveling, and I usually hate to use the word broken in cases like this. Here's the math:

It takes 1000000 xp for each veteran level now.

There are 5 zones per alliance, and each zone has 3 dolmens, 6 world bosses, and 6 solo delves. Doing all of these objectives for a single zone nets you ~5000 xp for each. Doing simple math, 3 + 6 + 6 = 15 objectives.

At 5000 xp each, we're looking at 15 * 5000 = 75000 xp to clear an entire zone.

Since there are 5 zones per alliance, if you do all of these objectives, we're looking at 5 * 75000 = 375000 xp.

This is 375000 / 1000000 = 37.5% of a SINGLE veteran level. Previously, doing these objectives for a single alliance would net about 3 full veteran levels.

My guild just did a dolmen/world boss event where we ran around each AD zone killing them for xp, and I gained about 25% of a veteran level.

Craglorn isn't any better, as I've done almost the entire lower + upper main questline today and a few group delves. Completion of each nets you the same ~5k xp, though one of the main quests gave 16k.

Luckily I already have a v14, and two v12s. I absolutely will not be leveling my v1 templar with the current vet xp system in place. This needs to be fixed ASAP, as any new players coming into the game in 1.5 weeks when the game goes BTP will take one look at this horrible grind and probably throw in the towel.

If you want to keep people from grinding too many champion points too quickly, I support that. But you cannot break the veteran leveling system in order to do so.

While I refuse to do all of the quests in an alliance to test this, I think at the current xp rewards, doing every quest, dolmen, world boss, and solo dungeon for an alliance would net you less than 4 vet levels, and the original design was 5 vet levels of content for each alliance (and this did not include doing every single little quest either).

ZOS said that vet levels will not be removed in time for the console release, which many people interpret as they're staying in the game permanently which will run contrary to their previous position on saying they're being removed eventually. I would much rather see veteran levels go away completely as the fix, but since that seems unlikely to happen, you either need to greatly increase the vet xp rewards to be more in line with what they were previously, or you need to significantly lower the XP needed to achieve a veteran level.

yesss! this is exactly what I experienced... I just level from VR1 and did all quests and delves and content through the 10 zones and reached VR8.5... now im lefting with grinding and craglorn.. but honeslty craglorn don't give enough xp to make it worth while

Muzumush · April 2015

I think XP gain should get a boost as it does seem a bit too low (even with my premium account). But! I am currently a level VR 7.8 (almost 8) and I'm just about to start Cadwell's Gold which is a VR 6 zone. I got all my XP from PVE with only a tiny bit from Cyrodil PVE (about 10 quest done in PVP zone) I also don't kill everything I see I usually run past them (which I'm just finding out is bad for my CP gains so I'm gonna change that). So I don't know how some people aren't getting to at least the level of the zone they are at as I very easily and unintentionally got almost 2 VR levels ahead of my zone just from playing the game...

Maybe it's a bug for some people? Maybe some players XP gain is just messed up compared to others idk... Either way XP should be faster and I also think CP points should be a bit faster (*especially for paying members) too as people are grinding for them instead of just being satisfied with a natural progression of them.

bloodenragedb14_ESO · April 2015

i play around in craglorn alot, no quests just testing AoE builds, and i also complete cheydinhal pve quests once a day. as such, my new alt is now vr3 and is not even half done with glenumbra, but then im patient, and i dont mind if i dont get one vet level a day, im perfectly fine with knowing that it may take a few days. unfortunatly, not everyone is patient, and are calling for a removal of vet ranks, something im against

Reykice · April 2015

My vr7 is still doing Rivenspire(3rd area from the DC)...

If you kill the enemies between your quest objective, explore, do all the delves, quests etc you out level the VR areas pretty fast.

If you do none of those or only some why are you complaining?

Zheg · April 2015

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

i play around in craglorn alot, no quests just testing AoE builds, and i also complete cheydinhal pve quests once a day. as such, my new alt is now vr3 and is not even half done with glenumbra, but then im patient, and i dont mind if i dont get one vet level a day, im perfectly fine with knowing that it may take a few days. unfortunatly, not everyone is patient, and are calling for a removal of vet ranks, something im against

I'll respect your opinion that you're against removing vet ranks, but the topic has already been settled and ZOS has confirmed multiple times they're going away. What they haven't confirmed is that since they're going away in a few months, what in the world the logic is for having vet levels take 'longer' now than they used to. We're going on 2 months now without any explanation on this stuff yet. My best guess is that they thought they could completely ignore it while they work solely on console since the vet levels are being removed eventually. My next best guess is that they also haven't tried to level a veteran character since 1.6, and whoever does QA on this front has been out to lunch for a few months.

Zheg · April 2015

Also, after re-reading my OP (made almost 2 months ago...), I'll toss in some more info. I originally said I refused to do every single quest in all silver and gold to test this, and now I'll walk that back. It's been SO long that I eventually caved, and finished up full map completion of every silver and gold area this weekend. With the sub bonus to xp, and significant pvp in the last 2 or so weeks (usually do all 5 kill quests and a scroll quest thrown in here and there, let's be conservative and estimate about a full vet level, plus another half a vet level from mob grinding I did on the side), I just barely dinged V10.

To put it in perspective, if you do full map completion on the 1-50 zones, you end up being overleveled, and my experience having done all of silver and gold is that it would leave you significantly underleveled.

The same yahoos that say they were v14 halfway through gold without doing any grinding are going to say look, v10 at the end, nothing is wrong. My V10 though includes a ton of xp gained via pvp over a long time (because pvp XP is still paltry), and about half a vet level of mob grinding if we're rounding down. I already know that craglorn is an entire waste of time, I did the full questline on my DK and realized the super majority of quests (that take hours to finish) give a few iterations of 5k xp for completion. So, all that's left is to mob grind, or do cyrodiil daily quests for another 4 million xp. Nice going ZOS, go ahead and keep ignoring all of the warning bells players are sounding about what you did to craglorn.

I started playing in beta, and through the progression stopping bugs in cold harbor, and the early month/s of bots taking delve bosses and crafting nodes, I can honestly say the biggest ZOS disappointment for me has been the last few months and the veteran xp situation. They should never have left the situation the way it has been for a long as they have, and they certainly shouldn't have left it like this while being completely mute on the forums.

Ley · April 2015

Muzumush wrote: »

I also think CP points should be a bit faster (*especially for paying members)

You're gonna make a lot of friend on here with that view point.

wraith808 · April 2015

GaldorP wrote: »

After this character had completed all the content mentioned above and reached VR 12 I also did one delve in Craglorn to check the XP reward for completing a Craglorn delve for the first time: It's around 5k XP now (I remember a time when it was over 100k XP). Completing Seeker's Archive for the first time rewards about 24k XP now.

The reason for the change was the change in the scaling of the VR levels. Since they're all 1,000,000 XP now, they reduced the first time rewards.

RSram · April 2015

Not sure about the math, but imperial evidence doesn't lie:

I reached VR14 by doing all the Cadwel quests and every side quest, dolmen, boss, etc in every zone. I killed everything that was glowing red and looted every treasure chest several times over. I did two quest hubs in Cyrodiil, but removing these quests, you still should to make it to VR10 with no issues.

You got to play to level up; that's the engine that drives every MMO with the exception of those that added the P2W option.

I don't see what the issue is? Why is everyone in a hurry to reach VR14? Just take your time, have fun, smell the roses and before you know it, your character will reach VR14. The endgame content will still be there waiting for you!

Sharakor · April 2015

I just came back after 7 month retirement and I was VR1 a month ago. I'm now VR5. You said "Luckily I already had a VR14 and two VR12 characters", maybe THAT'S the problem... I'm more than alright having to work hard to get VR14 unlike yourself

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Trolling & Baiting]