Guild Vendor Bidding

Hamrb · April 2015

Ok. I am a GM of a newer guild, we have 490+ members and a 10 day inactivity policy. I want to start off by saying, I like the guild vendor system. My problem is that I'm a new guild leader, with plenty of $$ to spend on guild vendors. We want to buy one in a good spot, not hoping for rawl'kah or anything that great. But what I'm finding is that I can't promise my guildies a vendor because I have 0 clue if my bid will win. I've lost 3 weeks straight now, bidding WELL over 50K.

What I'd like to suggest is a NPC or some sort of bulletin in each main guild vendor area, that states what the average price was for all the vendors there. You could have one for mournhold, belkarth, rawl, grahtwood, etc... Can average out all the ones in mournhold together, and then do an average for the rest of the vendors in Deshaan. so there would be two different places to see prices.

I believe that this will help the learning curve for an active guild like mine, that at least deserves a shot at a trader. And at the same time you wont be giving any information up on individual guilds that could alter the system completely
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there are 4guild vendors in rawl'kah I believe. Say that 2 of the vendors sold for 1 million gold, 2 sold for 3 million. There would be a place in rawl kah that says average vendor price this week, 2 Millions Gold.

Just a thought. Forums feel free to tell me how dumb this is and why haha.

Guilds like mine are fighting too large of a learning curve, and I cant keep every good member, because we don't have a good vendor :-/. and In turn it makes it harder to get a vendor. see the cycle here?

Hamrb · April 2015

is this in the wrong place? or has someone mentioned this idea before?

Arkadius · April 2015

Haven't seen this idea before. Don't think it would hurt to see average price somehow. But until this happens, I suggest contacting the leaders of the successful guilds and ask for advice. Most of them are pretty dedicated and know different region prices quite well.

Hamrb · April 2015

Xiana wrote: »

Haven't seen this idea before. Don't think it would hurt to see average price somehow. But until this happens, I suggest contacting the leaders of the successful guilds and ask for advice. Most of them are pretty dedicated and know different region prices quite well.

ive tried haha. they think im trying to steal their vendor :-(. cant blame them, but everyone is so tightlipped about vendor pricing and grind spots. Where's the community at.

redspecter23 · April 2015

Over time, you will get an idea of what kiosks go for in any given area. From what I can tell, 50k is a great bid for a location outside cities and will win more often than it loses. Most city locations will be 100k minimum and even then not a guarantee. More popular cities are in the hundreds of thousands and more than that if you want it to be a "safe" bid.

At the end of the day, even a bid that's way over the average for the area can lose if you happen to be bidding against someone else that really wants that spot.

Take a look at the guilds that are in the spot. If they are a large established guild that has been in that spot for multiple weeks, they are likely bidding high. If the spot flips a lot it may be a good buy for less gold than average. If you see a really good guild in an average or bad location, it's very likely the lost their bid and picked up a 100g kiosk for the week. They will probably NOT bid in that location the next week which will make it potentially go for a bit less.

There are loads of factors here. Way too many to list in just one post. You really need to do your research and keep an eye on the guilds, guild stores and locations from week to week for your best chance.

Hamrb · April 2015

redspecter23 wrote: »

Over time, you will get an idea of what kiosks go for in any given area. From what I can tell, 50k is a great bid for a location outside cities and will win more often than it loses. Most city locations will be 100k minimum and even then not a guarantee. More popular cities are in the hundreds of thousands and more than that if you want it to be a "safe" bid.

At the end of the day, even a bid that's way over the average for the area can lose if you happen to be bidding against someone else that really wants that spot.

Take a look at the guilds that are in the spot. If they are a large established guild that has been in that spot for multiple weeks, they are likely bidding high. If the spot flips a lot it may be a good buy for less gold than average. If you see a really good guild in an average or bad location, it's very likely the lost their bid and picked up a 100g kiosk for the week. They will probably NOT bid in that location the next week which will make it potentially go for a bit less.

There are loads of factors here. Way too many to list in just one post. You really need to do your research and keep an eye on the guilds, guild stores and locations from week to week for your best chance.

Trust me. I have been. My suggestion wouldn't be in order to help newer guilds win bids. But it would give them an idea. you gotta understand, having a legit 490+ vet rank PvE guild is hard with no vendor. We built up in one month, now its been another two weeks, we have bankroll. not millions, but plenty. I don't want to go wast all my bankroll overbidding by 100s of thousands. We aren't THAT rich, yet at least. Watching the vendors..... what good does that do me if I can only lose on bid a week.and the bid is over 100K. watching good trading guild, ya im smart enough to stay out of their ways.

IM STILL BASICALLY IN THE DARK

redspecter23 · April 2015

Hamrb wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

Over time, you will get an idea of what kiosks go for in any given area. From what I can tell, 50k is a great bid for a location outside cities and will win more often than it loses. Most city locations will be 100k minimum and even then not a guarantee. More popular cities are in the hundreds of thousands and more than that if you want it to be a "safe" bid.

At the end of the day, even a bid that's way over the average for the area can lose if you happen to be bidding against someone else that really wants that spot.

Take a look at the guilds that are in the spot. If they are a large established guild that has been in that spot for multiple weeks, they are likely bidding high. If the spot flips a lot it may be a good buy for less gold than average. If you see a really good guild in an average or bad location, it's very likely the lost their bid and picked up a 100g kiosk for the week. They will probably NOT bid in that location the next week which will make it potentially go for a bit less.

There are loads of factors here. Way too many to list in just one post. You really need to do your research and keep an eye on the guilds, guild stores and locations from week to week for your best chance.

Trust me. I have been. My suggestion wouldn't be in order to help newer guilds win bids. But it would give them an idea. you gotta understand, having a legit 490+ vet rank PvE guild is hard with no vendor. We built up in one month, now its been another two weeks, we have bankroll. not millions, but plenty. I don't want to go wast all my bankroll overbidding by 100s of thousands. We aren't THAT rich, yet at least. Watching the vendors..... what good does that do me if I can only lose on bid a week.and the bid is over 100K. watching good trading guild, ya im smart enough to stay out of their ways.

IM STILL BASICALLY IN THE DARK

I can only suggest what's worked for me. I ran a trading guild since they first added kiosks. That guild has only ever lost one week. Sure, some of that is luck. Some of it is knowing the system. I talked with other trade guild GM's. The more you communicate, the easier it is to find the spots that are likely to be easier to bid on.

Hamrb · April 2015

I've seen a lot of suggestions on here, or cries to change the system, completely. I believe this would be a fix that the best trade guilds wouldn't like, but they won't like any change to the system because they're doing fine. It's still not a lot to comprise for them, and it would be enough info to give to where, no one can complain about the system anymore

redspecter23 · April 2015

I actually do like the suggestion. It's a bit rough and like any price guide, you have to take the numbers with a grain of salt. For instance, in Shornhelm, the 3 top locations most certainly go for more than the kiosks on the stairs, but the average would not take that into account. Also if one Rawl'kha location goes unbid for a week, it skews the average massively toward the low end and that has happened a few times in the recent past.

A good suggestion for sure, but could use a bit of polish.

Hamrb · April 2015

redspecter23 wrote: »

Hamrb wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

Over time, you will get an idea of what kiosks go for in any given area. From what I can tell, 50k is a great bid for a location outside cities and will win more often than it loses. Most city locations will be 100k minimum and even then not a guarantee. More popular cities are in the hundreds of thousands and more than that if you want it to be a "safe" bid.

At the end of the day, even a bid that's way over the average for the area can lose if you happen to be bidding against someone else that really wants that spot.

Take a look at the guilds that are in the spot. If they are a large established guild that has been in that spot for multiple weeks, they are likely bidding high. If the spot flips a lot it may be a good buy for less gold than average. If you see a really good guild in an average or bad location, it's very likely the lost their bid and picked up a 100g kiosk for the week. They will probably NOT bid in that location the next week which will make it potentially go for a bit less.

There are loads of factors here. Way too many to list in just one post. You really need to do your research and keep an eye on the guilds, guild stores and locations from week to week for your best chance.

Trust me. I have been. My suggestion wouldn't be in order to help newer guilds win bids. But it would give them an idea. you gotta understand, having a legit 490+ vet rank PvE guild is hard with no vendor. We built up in one month, now its been another two weeks, we have bankroll. not millions, but plenty. I don't want to go wast all my bankroll overbidding by 100s of thousands. We aren't THAT rich, yet at least. Watching the vendors..... what good does that do me if I can only lose on bid a week.and the bid is over 100K. watching good trading guild, ya im smart enough to stay out of their ways.

IM STILL BASICALLY IN THE DARK

I can only suggest what's worked for me. I ran a trading guild since they first added kiosks. That guild has only ever lost one week. Sure, some of that is luck. Some of it is knowing the system. I talked with other trade guild GM's. The more you communicate, the easier it is to find the spots that are likely to be easier to bid on.

Very true. But it's an uphill battle. People don't openly share kiosk info. If you do, and are willing to share some info on areas you never plan on bidding in, I would be hugely grateful.

Because I've asked around and have received help from only 1 GM and its because his trade guild was basically dying. and his info was pre tamrieal unlimited

Hamrb · April 2015

user id @hamrb

Hamrb · April 2015

Ya I was thinking for this idea. Take grahtwood for example. there are 5-8 traders lined up right outside the tree. the average would only be for that group. and then averages for each other group of guild traders. Would also need an average for all the single traders scattered around Grahtwood as well. I don't think this is undoable. and I hope this idea gains some traction haha

AlnilamE · April 2015

As other's have mentioned, 50k will not give you a trader in any city (except maybe Shornhelm because the traders there are very inconveniently placed). One exception may be the traders in the Outlaw Refuges. They are not as busy, but they are better than people think they are, especially in popular thieving locations.

While I like your suggestion of having an average known, this would have to be for the entire zone, not split by "in" and "out" of the city because there are only 2 traders outside of the main hub in each zone (I know where they all are). Also, places like the starter zones (Bleakrock, Bal Foyen, Stros M'Kai and Betnikh) have one trader each, and Khenarthi's Roost has 2 or 3.

My guild has been able to get a trader most weeks, but not always by winning a bid. We've tried to have at least one person be online when the traders switch and try to hire an alternate trader (for 100g) if our bid failed. That way you will at least have a trader. It may be a sub-par trader, but it's better than nothing.

P3ZZL3 · April 2015

It's also vital to know whether you are NA/EU.

There is a hell of a difference in terms of trader prices and preferences depending on the 2 geographics

Thelon · April 2015

Hamrb wrote: »

I've seen a lot of suggestions on here, or cries to change the system, completely. I believe this would be a fix that the best trade guilds wouldn't like, but they won't like any change to the system because they're doing fine. It's still not a lot to comprise for them, and it would be enough info to give to where, no one can complain about the system anymore

This is an oversimplification. Many of the oldest and most successful trade guilds have many legitimate gripes with the current system, and we're constantly providing feedback to ZOS regarding how to improve it.

- Why is maintenance scheduled right after bidding closes?
- Why can spy's monitor the amount of gold in the Guild Bank?
- Why are some traders located ridiculously far from way shrines?
- Why is the store's UI so poor that Awesome Guild Store is an outright necessity?
- Why does bidding close early in the morning as opposed to prime time?

Addressing these issues would help new and established trade guilds alike. So no, we're not satisfied with the status quo.

Hamrb · April 2015

Ya when I say well over 50K I meant over 100 haha, just didn't want to give too much away

Hamrb · April 2015

Also, Thelon. I meant no disrespect haha.

Ley · April 2015

I asked, quite innocently in guild chat one day how much they typically bid on their guild vendor. I didn't have a clue and wanted to know what a reasonable contribution towards that would be. One of the officers blurted it out and it caused a whole drama scene in guild chat for the next hour.

Anyways I don't think there should be any sort of indication as to how much people are bidding on a guild vendor because it will just make it easy to use cheap sniping tactics to get a spot and it will make prices rise from week to week more notably.

vovus69 · April 2015

if you are in a guild, you always can see how much guild paid for the kiosk in history of trades. So join 2-3 guilds in a location you like and in week or two you will know how much they are paying for kiosk

Thelon · April 2015

vovus69 wrote: »

if you are in a guild, you always can see how much guild paid for the kiosk in history of trades. So join 2-3 guilds in a location you like and in week or two you will know how much they are paying for kiosk

Join a guild to spy on them, sounds legit.

@ZOS_JasonLeavey @ZOS_GinaBruno give us rank permissions to decide which of our guildies can view this info.

Epona222 · April 2015

You are not going to get a kiosk in Rawl'kha for 50k.

Thelon wrote: »

vovus69 wrote: »

if you are in a guild, you always can see how much guild paid for the kiosk in history of trades. So join 2-3 guilds in a location you like and in week or two you will know how much they are paying for kiosk

Join a guild to spy on them, sounds legit.

@ZOS_JasonLeavey @ZOS_GinaBruno give us rank permissions to decide which of our guildies can view this info.

Agree, only those with hire permission should be able to look at bids

vovus69 · April 2015

This is history info and all of this history info is available through API. You know that right? So anyone with proper addon can join for one day and get all history of all your bids. Of course it is legit - nobody is asking you how much you will pay in a future, but history should be always available. This can give people a guidance.

Arkadius · April 2015

vovus69 wrote: »

This is history info and all of this history info is available through API. You know that right? So anyone with proper addon can join for one day and get all history of all your bids. Of course it is legit - nobody is asking you how much you will pay in a future, but history should be always available. This can give people a guidance.

Bank history is only available for the last ten days. Even with addons. So you could only see two bids, at best (which is, ofc, still to much).

Epona222 · April 2015

Just the fact that the last couple of bids are visible keeps forcing up bids and keeps some of the smaller guilds locked out