Dodge-roll penalty

Drago Belsazar · April 2015

Dudes,

I have to laugh about some facts you mentioned. Some of you really compare 2 OP Builds and say:"The other one is stronger, mine is ok." I don't know you realize, but 1.) for Shield-Stacking. If you're not Top DD, or have really big luck with CC you cannot even destroy the Shields. In this Case a 1 vs 1, the Shield-Stacking DD is harder to kill than a Heavy Armor Tank. You don't need to be genius to see something is broken here.
2.) Dodge-Roll-Spam DDs + OP Vigor given to medium Armor Builds are Godlike. You don't have to see the only affect of Dodge-Rolling itself, it's the possibility of avoiding 100% of damage + OP Selfheal = Invincible. And think about Dodge-Rolls grants 100% Mitigation, even your Shields are not hitted, while Blocks are worthless and only drain Stamina by no Mitigation. Dodge-Roll itself is not OP. But something need to change aswell.

Panda244 · April 2015

Curse, Flame Lash, Magicka Detonation, Surprise Attack, Caltrops, Soul Assault, Jesus Beam.

Blow the Rollerblade up and move on with your life.

Cody · April 2015

Baphomet wrote: »

One doesn't really have to spent a lot of time in game or on Youtube to see that the balance is more [snip] up than ever. Not only did @ZoS try to empower stamina builds, but they also nerfed magicka builds in the process.

Stamina builds, regardless of class, can be specced in such ways that they are more imbalanced than the old 7 light DK - bravo Zenimax.

Now, this imbalance doesn't just originate from a single cause, but it is a lot of things coming together in a way that apparently was too complex for the combat team to foresee.

In short though, it is a mixture buffs to the weapon skill lines, medium armor + the availability of stamina gear along with the removal of softcaps.

Not only does it cost close to nothing for a stamina build to break CC or dodge-roll, they even made it so that they get CC immunity for waaay longer than everybody else - no one sees how idiotic this is?

And the fact that you have a game where you can move faster in stealth that others can sprinting and out-sprint projectiles - what kind of brilliant game mechanics are those?

Then let's throw in a two-handed stamina feats that heals better than breath of life, just to have a little fun.

A few things that needs to be changed to bring some balance back into the game:

1. Consecutive dodge-rolling should have a penalty.
2. CC immunity after breaking free should not be prolonged by people using medium armor.
3. Uppercut should be interuptible again.
4. Sneak attacks should only be possible from melee range (or allow all weapons to do it again)
5. Movement speed should be addressed - stealthed and unstealthed.
6. Stamina gear should be nerfed back again after their empowerment prior to the cap-removal.
7. Restore light armor.

And yes, there are some magicka issues also, which are screwing up this game, too, and they of course needs to be nerfed as well.

1. Shield stacking - more broken than prior to 1.6. Only the strongest shield should apply as long as they are of same type i.e. healing ward and hardened ward shouldn't stack, but hardened ward and harness magicka should.
2. Bolt escape balls of lightning - these are too effective at absorbing projectiles and linger for far too long. Too effective at avoiding combat just like dodge-rolling.

uppercut does NOT need to be interruptable again; if it gets back that way, then it will be impossible to use 2H against venom arrow and crushing shock spammers, and 2H will be almost useless yet again, just like in 1.5

learn to dodge the uppercuts plz. heck all you have to do is literally walk thru my character and it wont let me uppercut you. I have had that happen quite a bit.

and "sneaking faster than sprinting" no i dont recall being THAT fast in stealth unless my memory is just terrible.

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

OdinForge · April 2015

Panda244 wrote: »

Curse, Flame Lash, Magicka Detonation, Concealed Weapon, Caltrops, Soul Assault, Jesus Beam.

Blow the Rollerblade up and move on with your life.

Fixed for NB, caster NB can counter dodge pretty effectively, but 9/10 magicka NB i fight don't even seem to have it slotted.

And inevitable detonation should really be on every magicka users bar, you can get the damage so high. This literally stops roll dodgers in their tracks.

deepseamk20b14_ESO · April 2015

It would be nice to have a stamina version of magicka detonation. I want grenades!

Drago Belsazar · April 2015

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

It would be nice to have a stamina version of magicka detonation. I want grenades!

If that happens, I want a Vigor scaling with Magicka.

Varicite · April 2015

Drago Belsazar wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

It would be nice to have a stamina version of magicka detonation. I want grenades!

If that happens, I want a Vigor scaling with Magicka.

Hmm, I'm pretty sure they call that EVERY SINGLE ABILITY on the Resto staff and the Templar healing skills, as well as every other classes' healing abilities.

What a silly statement.

Valymer · April 2015

Varicite wrote: »

Drago Belsazar wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

It would be nice to have a stamina version of magicka detonation. I want grenades!

If that happens, I want a Vigor scaling with Magicka.

Hmm, I'm pretty sure they call that EVERY SINGLE ABILITY on the Resto staff and the Templar healing skills, as well as every other classes' healing abilities.

What a silly statement.

But that means that you have to have a resto staff equipped, or be a Templar. Vigor has none of these requirements.

Varicite · April 2015

Valymer wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

Drago Belsazar wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

It would be nice to have a stamina version of magicka detonation. I want grenades!

If that happens, I want a Vigor scaling with Magicka.

Hmm, I'm pretty sure they call that EVERY SINGLE ABILITY on the Resto staff and the Templar healing skills, as well as every other classes' healing abilities.

What a silly statement.

But that means that you have to have a resto staff equipped, or be a Templar. Vigor has none of these requirements.

Or be a NB.

Or use one of the Blood Altar morphs. Or use Cleanse.

That seems like a lot more options than the 1 option that Stamina has exclusively for healing allies.

/shrug

Zsymon · April 2015

There are so many skills that go through dodge, I don't understand how this is even a discussion. Casters can just spam Force Pulse, Templars can use snare + Biting Jabs, Dragonknights can use Flame Whip, Nightblades can use Surprise Attack, Sorcerers can use Daedric Curse.. every single build and class has a counter for people that dodge roll around.

Zsymon · April 2015

Baphomet, your list of suggestions would completely break the game and make stamina builds entirely useless again. Also the last thing light armor needs is to be upgraded again.

Casters have never had to learn how to defeat stamina builds, because they were free APs, stamina builds just melted, now that they've been improved, you're going to have to spend some time learning how to overcome things like dodge and Uppercut, but it's been proven many times that these things can easily be overcome if you know how to, every single class has the tools to overcome these things.

A caster sorcerer right now is still multitudes more powerful than any existing stamina build can come anywhere close to being. Magicka Sorcerers are the only major balance issue that exists right now. You can't demand stamina builds be nerfed already when no one's had the chance to even adapt to them. Give it some time and no one will complain about dodge or Uppercut anymore, you'll be laughing at dodgers as you destroy them with skills that go right through it, or at someone trying to pull off an Uppercut as you simply walk inside the character to cancel it. Uppercut is impossible to pull off against someone that knows what they're doing, that spent time practicing countering it.

Dodge roll on the other hand is mostly effective against other stamina builds, since most skills that go through dodge cost magicka. Casters have absolutely no reason whatsoever to complain about dodgers. As long as all these powerful skills go right through dodge, "infinite" dodging will never be overpowered, and 99.9% of stamina users out there can NOT dodge infinitely, let alone use skills and dodge a lot without running out of stamina very fast. Casting shields inbetween spells is far, far easier and cost effective, and shields make you immune to any ranged CC on top.

Zsymon · April 2015

Miss.