ZOS, how long will it take to fix the massive imbalance between magicka and stamina builds in PVP?

monkeymystic · April 2015

Stamina builds are currently superior compared to magicka builds across the board in PvP. The difference is so huge that players using a magicka build in PvP currently (except for sorcerers) are considered "Gimp".

There are very few defenses/migitation against physical damage, and at the same time there are TONS of ways to reduce magicka dmg from CP points, traits, and so on.
On top of this, it is much easier to gain high weapon damage as a stam user, and you get the best defense too, with very cheap dodgeroll, sprint and so on.

End result is that a stam user will have greater offense, greater defense, greater mobility and be better in ALL areas compard to a magicka user.
Vigor is making stam users get a huge advantage in self healing as well, without the need of a resto staff slotted.

This can't wait until the next "major" update, this needs to be fixed NOW, because a very large amount of players WANTS to play a magicka build in pvp, but instead think of quitting (like me) because the imbalance is simply too much and have been unchanged for almost 2 months..

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom Atleast give a word if you are taking this seriously and fixing it soon or not, because I'd like to know if its worth continue playing and paying a monthly fee for this game.

Dositheus · April 2015

monkeymystic wrote: »

Stamina builds are currently superior compared to magicka builds across the board in PvP. The difference is so huge that players using a magicka build in PvP currently (except for sorcerers) are considered "Gimp".

There are very few defenses/migitation against physical damage, and at the same time there are TONS of ways to reduce magicka dmg from CP points, traits, and so on.
On top of this, it is much easier to gain high weapon damage as a stam user, and you get the best defense too, with very cheap dodgeroll, sprint and so on.

End result is that a stam user will have greater offense, greater defense, greater mobility and be better in ALL areas compard to a magicka user.
Vigor is making stam users get a huge advantage in self healing as well, without the need of a resto staff slotted.

This can't wait until the next "major" update, this needs to be fixed NOW, because a very large amount of players WANTS to play a magicka build in pvp, but instead think of quitting (like me) because the imbalance is simply too much and have been unchanged for almost 2 months..

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom Atleast give a word if you are taking this seriously and fixing it soon or not, because I'd like to know if its worth continue playing and paying a monthly fee for this game.

Mmm... wow. Let us see what we can do here. So... there is a bit too much hyperbole going on here. We should try and tone that down, as it generally invalidates one's arguments in the eyes of others. So, I'm hearing that you're concerned with your performance with a Magika build in the post 1.6 world. That is understandable, I came back to ESO and had to adjust my expectations a bit as well since when I left there were almost no people really running stam builds except a couple nb archers. Things have indeed changed.

Now, you did do a good job making a caveat caveat for Sorcerors with your argument of the poor state of magika. Not mentioning them would have certainly opened you up for much ridicule from the community, as they are considered some of the scarrier bursters in the game and.. hard to kill.

The statements regarding stam having greater defense is questionable, and will certainly be pointed out by others. Stamina builds are generally considered glass cannons. They have burst, with as you did rightly point out... limited resistance options as opposed to magika. Although for defense, magika builds are generally more sustainable and more defensive. Generally. Vigor is currently a bit of a moot point... as what.. 1% of the population pvping has access to it? They are talking about moving it down in the tree, which would be interesting. But as of now, almost no one has access to it... so.. yeah. Not really a real argument there. Almost all heals are magika based, which is one of the biggest weaknesses of stamina builds. Which is why Vigor is rather coveted I agree.

Now lets look at some good examples of players who do wonderful using Magika based builds in the current Meta. Go to youtube... and watch vidoes of Sypher, Xinthisis, Liberate, and many others... who utilize Magika builds just fine. Some of the hardest NB's I've ever fought, who were nearly impossible to kill and were destroying groups solo... were Magika. I've also seen magika templars doing just fine... (as fine as Templars in general do). And Magika DK's are still around too... feel free to watch videos of them. It's amazing what you can find, and perhaps new ideas you could incorporate into your play style if you only look.

So, how about taking the opportunity to go look about on the internet and find how you can succeed with your chosen play style, rather than trying to lower the opposing play styles to fit into your idealized meta?

ItsMeToo · April 2015

Just redo your build and learn to adapt. That is what I do.

WhiskyBob · April 2015

Obviously you haven't been flared and beamed to death by a magica templar in less than a second from 40k hp to 0

Oh and you havent been hit by flame staff magica DK with Igneous Weapons for 20+k followed by destructive reach and another heavy attack just to make you cry.

Oh and you havent been bursted down to oblivion by a magica nightblade.

Only two superior stamina builds I know is rollerblade (dodge rolling nightblade) and Fossilize-Wrecking Blow-Leap-Execute DK

RainfeatherUK · April 2015

It was a long time coming of course people want to play with it

As for Magicka builds, I've picked up a few things from Sypher and it still works fine with my NB. If anything its easier than my stamina spec, since I still get a bit carried away with it and over extend on resources with that build.

Basically just;

''So, how about taking the opportunity to go look about on the internet and find how you can succeed with your chosen play style, rather than trying to lower the opposing play styles to fit into your idealized meta?'' - Dositheus.

Stamina no doubt will receive a few tweaks as time goes on. Much better than the token rarity it was before though.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Rude and Insulting comments]

Etaniel · April 2015

Some stamina skills are completely ridiculous atm yes. Are stamina builds superior to magicka builds right now? In some cases yes.
Are magicka builds completely unviable? Heck no, you can still be really strong using magicka in any class.
Also, you should cut stamina users some slack. People have been complaining since launch that magicka was vastly superior over stamina, which was completely true, and they had to deal with that for many months. Now it's the other way around, and I'm sure it will turn the other way around in the future.

Keron · April 2015

How many people complaining about the influence of Vigor on stamina builds have actually experienced this skill and used it in combat situations?

Do you know first hand how much it improves the survivability of a stam build, especially one that has momentum already?

Shader_Shibes · April 2015

This magicka nb disagrees with you.

Nysticc · April 2015

Stamina builds are in a good place right now, all they need to do is bring magicka builds up to par.

Jbugz97 · April 2015

Only two superior stamina builds I know is rollerblade (dodge rolling nightblade) and Fossilize-Wrecking Blow-Leap-Execute DK [/quote]

haha great rollerblade

ThisOnePosts · April 2015

Stamina build is not superior, you are just doing Magicka wrong (I have Stam & Mag builds between my VR14s, none are exactly the same). No physical protection from physical attacks? Ever hear of Boneshield? It's available to everyone who levels Undaunted enough to unlock it which isn't very far...the active ability before last.

There are many viable Magicka builds out there, Stamina is now actually useful and that's what you're seeing. You still have to block/sprint/sneak/dodgeroll using your Stamina pool while your Magicka pool remains untouched unless you use an actual ability. So in other words, your point is invalid.

Vaerth · April 2015

monkeymystic wrote: »

Stamina builds are currently superior compared to magicka builds across the board in PvP. The difference is so huge that players using a magicka build in PvP currently (except for sorcerers) are considered "Gimp".

There are very few defenses/migitation against physical damage, and at the same time there are TONS of ways to reduce magicka dmg from CP points, traits, and so on.
On top of this, it is much easier to gain high weapon damage as a stam user, and you get the best defense too, with very cheap dodgeroll, sprint and so on.

End result is that a stam user will have greater offense, greater defense, greater mobility and be better in ALL areas compard to a magicka user.
Vigor is making stam users get a huge advantage in self healing as well, without the need of a resto staff slotted.

This can't wait until the next "major" update, this needs to be fixed NOW, because a very large amount of players WANTS to play a magicka build in pvp, but instead think of quitting (like me) because the imbalance is simply too much and have been unchanged for almost 2 months..

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom Atleast give a word if you are taking this seriously and fixing it soon or not, because I'd like to know if its worth continue playing and paying a monthly fee for this game.

Agreed

ScruffyWhiskers · April 2015

WhiskyBob wrote: »

Oh and you havent been bursted down to oblivion by a magica nightblade.

With all due respect, I really don't see this happening. Burst is not a word that can be associated with NB magicka builds.

Zheg · April 2015

For almost an entire year, stamina builds were a laughing stock, and now that there are some stamina combos that are awesome, there is somehow a massive imbalance? As many others have pointed out here, there is a magicka build for each class that can hit like a truck still, so you're just doing it wrong.

Ace_SiN · April 2015

monkeymystic wrote: »

Stamina builds are currently superior compared to magicka builds across the board in PvP. The difference is so huge that players using a magicka build in PvP currently (except for sorcerers) are considered "Gimp".

I guess you got killed by a stam build a few times and came rushing to the forums. Magicka Builds are strong atm, and if there is any gap between stam and magicka, it's not one so huge that would consider magicka builds "gimped". If you want to see magicka builds played right I suggest you go watch some competitive players like SypherPK.

Ser Lobo · April 2015

Wow. Just wow.

I'm so happy to read this, that it's not even funny.

Says the stamina-focused nightblade since launch player.

Naivefanboi · April 2015

Got tired of stam, went to magicka on templar, wanna get 1 of those cool 20k destro heavy attacks!

MCMancub · April 2015

ruze84b14_ESO wrote: »

Wow. Just wow.

I'm so happy to read this, that it's not even funny.

Says the stamina-focused nightblade since launch player.

Couldn't agree more. We got a year of uselessness. It's about time we're viable.

reften · April 2015

I have burned so many skill points, point respecs, mats redoing my equipment, redo'ing my bars, leveling new skills, etc, that I've finally got the build I like...and realized that if I wanted to stick with DW, and Bow, and medium armor, that I'm going to have to switch to a stam build.

Traditional NBs/Assassins (sneak, attacked with bows and DW, medium armor) should be stam.

Light or heavy armor, resto/destruction staffs, S&B NBs...should be magicka.

I think it's cool, SOOOOoo many options.

I miss my old magicka build though. I miss ranged impale, I miss my bat swarm, my Sword and shield with Sap Essence. But, I like being able to sneak around now with weapons that look my like a traditional Assassin.

ScruffyWhiskers · April 2015

While I am happy for all of the long suffering stam builds out there, I have to say that it does feel like it came at the expense of everybody but the Sorcs on the magicka side. I have to laugh when I think of all the hand wringing about nerfed sorcs just before the 1.6 release. I had no clue what it was going to do to my magicka melee nb build. Quite simply it gutted it. Only thing I have going for my build right now is that I can chase down dodge rolling spam monkeys with my concealed weapon. I'm sure that will be "fixed" pretty soon though.

Also, there is no magicka nb build that hits like a truck. You might find a skilled player who can beat you but you are not getting burst down the same way a stam nb would wreck you with ambush, surprise attack or wrecking blow. It's no where close.

Xendyn · April 2015

MCMancub wrote: »

ruze84b14_ESO wrote: »

Wow. Just wow.

I'm so happy to read this, that it's not even funny.

Says the stamina-focused nightblade since launch player.

Couldn't agree more. We got a year of uselessness. It's about time we're viable.

And as a preferred Magicka user, I agree. Bout time you guys got a shot.
Also...anyone else having a case of reverse Deja-Vu here? lol

liquid_wolf · April 2015

I'm having flashbacks to the time when Stamina users had the exact same problem.

You had to run around in cloth with a destruction staff or it was pointless.

SHADOW2KK · April 2015

Really OP, you want a buff?, so did you miss a year where magicka builds were OP and my builds were rubbish, i.e stamina.

You had your time, its our long awaited time now.

I personally did not fall into the sheeplike meta of running about in bathrobes with staffs, I have always been stamina based, and finally the game is fixed for our kind, and you want it to go back to that? um no, just no.

Its our time now, so adapt.

Stamina builds or indeed warrior builds have suffered from day 1, till 1.6......

Yes you are free to play the game how you want, yeah only if you are a harry potter dress wearing person dancing about with staffs, for a whole year you had that, not any more..:}

Bfish22090 · April 2015

monkeymystic wrote: »

Stamina builds are currently superior compared to magicka builds across the board in PvP. The difference is so huge that players using a magicka build in PvP currently (except for sorcerers) are considered "Gimp".

There are very few defenses/migitation against physical damage, and at the same time there are TONS of ways to reduce magicka dmg from CP points, traits, and so on.
On top of this, it is much easier to gain high weapon damage as a stam user, and you get the best defense too, with very cheap dodgeroll, sprint and so on.

End result is that a stam user will have greater offense, greater defense, greater mobility and be better in ALL areas compard to a magicka user.
Vigor is making stam users get a huge advantage in self healing as well, without the need of a resto staff slotted.

This can't wait until the next "major" update, this needs to be fixed NOW, because a very large amount of players WANTS to play a magicka build in pvp, but instead think of quitting (like me) because the imbalance is simply too much and have been unchanged for almost 2 months..

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom Atleast give a word if you are taking this seriously and fixing it soon or not, because I'd like to know if its worth continue playing and paying a monthly fee for this game.

I agree.

At least nobody is tanking in LA anymore

DeLindsay · April 2015

Well it only took ZoS a YEAR to figure out how to get Stamina DPS up, so I'll let you guess how long it'll now take them to balance the 2.

Kurimugann · April 2015

I've been Stamina build since I started playing....since last black friday. Forget PvP a moment, think PvE.

Think how hard it was for me to take on 3+ mobs at once with my 2-Weapons, only to watch some sorc pass by with his daedric pets WRECK the whole mob group and the ones after without even breaking a sweat.

I have gotten better since prior 1.6, partly because I had no choice but to be half Stam half Magicka. 1.6 arrives, I finally have a shot at this. The few people I see when I quest are still magicka users, still WRECK everything and quite honestly I cannot blame them for enjoying tossing fireballs all over the place.

Most Stamina is close ranged combat (all but Bows really) Most Magi is ranged as far as I know. You want to beat Stam with Magi, Do not stay in it's face, or anywhere near it, you guys have an ability for that no?

golfer.dub17_ESO · April 2015

End result is that a stam user will have greater offense, greater defense, greater mobility and be better in ALL areas compard to a magicka user.

Eye-roll.

Better offense? Debatable, but I'll let you have that one.

Better defense? Kidding, right? Vast majority of heals and shields in this game are magicka based (as well as utility and cc abilities). As a stamina user I can use GDB two-three times max, magicka user can spam that like 10x. Only argument you guys have is that your armor was nerfed into the strength of a napkin (I would not be opposed to buffing that up somewhat).

This can't wait until the next "major" update, this needs to be fixed NOW, because a very large amount of players WANTS to play a magicka build in pvp, but instead think of quitting (like me) because the imbalance is simply too much and have been unchanged for almost 2 months..

It's petty of me, but we had to wait an entire year to even be remotely comparable.

Leeric · April 2015

Weird how people complained magicka builds were op and now stamina builds are op lol

Vegaroth · April 2015

Took them pracitically 1 year to start doing something about the imbalance between Magika & stamina when magika was the "must do".... so i think will take at least 1 more year before they start doing something about the new imbalance and probably the solution they will make will be a new imbalance.....

Borak_Bloodaxe · April 2015

i

BRogueNZ · April 2015

After healing for year, I figured it was time for a selfish change and went stamina.
Does feel odd not having to focus on keeping damage dealers alive and actually deal damage myself.
Suits my preferred play style and It's great that its actually an option recently.
I still suck and my arms get tired heaving that sword about in bulky armour but its a lot of fun.