Saint or Sinner?

ThirtySevenCoins · April 2015

Do your characters include: the square jawed hero/virtuous heroine, evil ruthless bad guy who only helps people for his own benefit/profit or the morally ambivalent anti-hero.?

cyqa · April 2015

Anti-Hero

My bosmer lady is definitely of the morally ambivalent variety!

Audigy · April 2015

Anti-Hero

My chars tend to be very sensitive and not as dominant as others. They can get hurt and don't like what's going on, but realize that not everything can be changed in this world.

Its the typical "they don't fit in society", but are yet the best bet society has to survive.

Edit:

I find it a pity that so few people contribute in this topic, its finally not a naming and shaming one, but an actual gameplay related topic that deserves much more attention.

golfer.dub17_ESO · April 2015

Other

Generally a good guy with realistic foils? Yeah.

Paragon of the light bleeding sunshine out his *** while going on about praising the gawds? No.

Selfish Anti-Hero who is childishly edgy and brooding depressed about the conformists the state of civilization? No.

Sociopath that kills and destroys everything in his wake? No.

Obscure · April 2015

Other

Short Answer: Neither

Long Answer: The Elder Scrolls is built on the notion of moral relativism, much like the real world, where there is no absolute right nor wrong. One persons hero is another persons villain, one persons murder is another persons display of honour and respect, one persons absolute truth is another persons baseless lie.

Answering the question on how I view my character is therefore complicated. He's a Morrowind loyalist who keeps Argonian slaves (mule bank alts are all Argonians), and has a special reverence for Mephala, Daedric prince of sex, murder, and secrets, the anticipation of Vivec. He's very very old, well disciplined, ruthless, a racial supremacist (not militant, just believes the Dunmer are better than other races. Like humans view themselves higher than dogs with no ill will intended), with an limitless capacity for both killing and compassion. Compassion being a Morrowind brand mind you, where killing someone because they are too weak or feeble in the eyes of the Anticipations is kind and just. Basically he's just plain normal among the traditional Dunmer of the 2nd era, but in my real world society he's almost absolutely evil, even if lawfully so.

Institutional evil, built on order and structure, and following it in accordance to the society in which it exists, is not evil relative to that society. Objective evil doesn't exist, it's always subjective, and that's something the Elder Scrolls has done well to explore throughout its games; something is only evil if the player considers it evil. There's just things that are good for a given social structure and things that are bad for a given social structure, and there's no right or wrong, good or evil, saint or sinner, that can be applied. All a matter of who is asking, and what they are using to judge.

Zorrashi · April 2015

Other

Depends on which character. My khajiit main is morally ambiguous, whereas my alts generally go into the "Heroic Paragon" category relative to their culture.
My nord has a really high sense of honor and has a clear principle of what is 'right' and 'wrong' and kind of freaks out when her views are put into question at morally ambiguous situation.
But that category is sort of debatable on my altmer Templar--what with her genuinely believing altmer are inherently better than any other race while at the same time thinking of it as an 'inherent duty of the just' to teach them. While she may protect any member of any race from blatant abuse, she simply cannot grasp the concepts behind certain cultural differences. Like the bosmer and their connection to the Valenwood. Or the khajiit and their often hedonistic practices. She openly admonishes if not downright opposes them.

Forestd16b14_ESO · April 2015

Heroic Paragon

Try my best to be a hero of the pact sure time to time i do a daedric quest but need to get that CP some how.

AH93 · April 2015

Other

I generally take some time to assess situations.
Weigh up the consequences of each action, choose the lesser evil, or make the choice which will benefit the majority.

So that sometimes leads me to being very heroic, sometimes quite evil, it all depends on the perspective.

Ley · April 2015

Other

I'm willing to make those hard choices that others are not, sacrifice a few for the greater good and such. It may come off as pretty evil in some cases or pretty heroic in others, regardless of how popular my choices in game are, I strive to make choices with the big picture in mind.

Lord_Kreegan · April 2015

Heroic Paragon

All eight of my characters always try to do the right thing... That just reflects my own personality and Southern upbringing; and since I'm an old dog and can't change my spots, role playing a bad character is not something I can do. Trust me; I've tried. I suck at it.

But, defining "right", however, is sometimes hard. Not all choices our characters make in the game are black and white; many are quite grey.

However, as a major disappointment the story doesn't seem to be affected by our choices one way or another except for the allies we have available in Coldharbour... and the differences there are more symbolic than real; the fights turn out the same way no matter what.

In comparison, SW-TOR was much less of a story-based failure IMHO. There was a scale for every character as to whether it was a good witch or a bad witch (Light-side or Dark-side), to use a "The Wizard of Oz" reference, and it made some (though small) difference in the story.

Nothing seems to affect the ESO story.

Zhoyzu · April 2015

Evil Renegade

kill for fun

ThirtySevenCoins · April 2015

Thanks for the replies, some interesting responses. I agree that some of the decisions in the game are irrelevant. Though these moral decisions can be meaningless in terms of gameplay it can be interesting in other ways. For the players that skip the text and have no interest in rp it's completely irrelevant as they play in a different style.

Even though there is no impact in the game you are still asked to make choices including: execution/imprisonment/release of prisoners, choosing between characters if one should live and the other is sacrificed, life and death etc. We all understand this is a game but there must be players that find these decisions difficult/enjoyable/attractive.

Can someone who usually plays a hero create a new dark character and change their instinctively good default choices to a colder harder response e.g. execute a prisoner? For those people who really get into rp would it actually be possible? or do they invest so much of themselves in their characters that they can't create this alter ego? Or are there people who have no moral difficulty in this regard and take the old actors view that the villains have the best parts and are more interesting to play.

Just to add I'm not limiting this to ESO as this applies to many games. Can games in general challenge you morally or are they just lightweight fluff? , time killing entertainment?

Maudieu · April 2015

Other

I am.... Skeeverborn!!!

Nyghthowler · April 2015

Other

If I feel the characters plight is honest and heartfelt I try to help. If I get the feeling they are a total a$$clown, I will go out of my way to do them wrong.

StaticWax · April 2015

Indifferent & slovenly should be added to the poll.

UrQuan · April 2015

Other

Depends on the character. With 16 alts, some are paragons of virtue who always try to do the right thing, most are much more morally ambiguous.

Panda244 · April 2015

Other

Regardless of morals I always tend to choose the most pragmatic option, if that means murdering an entire village to save an entire species, so be it.

Call me a cold ***. But pragmatism is a trait severely lacking in today's society....

I guess to make more sense, my Sith Inquisitor in SWTOR is a Sith, obviously, but he wouldn't go out of his way to torture people for no reason, and he wouldn't follow either codes, Jedi, or Sith, he'd simply do what he himself thinks is the best option under all circumstances... Kind of like a Vulcan. Without the *** attitude.

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO · April 2015

Other

Kotaro Atani is basically Zorro (the Antonio banderas type) / puss in boots and a debonair master thief.

Sylveria_Relden · April 2015

Other

Usually I play "saint" types but it also depends on the character and how I feel that day

In this game, I play either/or depending mainly on what I feel like doing at that moment.

lihentian · April 2015

Other

i like to say am Heroic Paragon, as i always choose the "good" side of the option.....exception one place.. when the mad god offer me two skill point for a npc... i shamefully agree...

Cody · April 2015

Heroic Paragon

Im a b***, im a lover
im a child, im a mother
Im a sinner, Im a saint

Cody · April 2015

Heroic Paragon

i HAVE to be the all good player. Ive tried to make evil characters... but i always felt like complete crap when i did and always ended up restarting.

course its interesting because I have no problem thieving and killing NPCs every now and then...

so not heroic paragon. more like... anti hero i guess?

ThirtySevenCoins · April 2015

T

Panda244 wrote: »

Regardless of morals I always tend to choose the most pragmatic option, if that means murdering an entire village to save an entire species, so be it.

Call me a cold ***. But pragmatism is a trait severely lacking in today's society....

I guess to make more sense, my Sith Inquisitor in SWTOR is a Sith, obviously, but he wouldn't go out of his way to torture people for no reason, and he wouldn't follow either codes, Jedi, or Sith, he'd simply do what he himself thinks is the best option under all circumstances... Kind of like a Vulcan. Without the *** attitude.

Simply the ruthless calculus of war.

Robo_Hobo · April 2015

ThirtySevenCoins wrote: »

Thanks for the replies, some interesting responses. I agree that some of the decisions in the game are irrelevant. Though these moral decisions can be meaningless in terms of gameplay it can be interesting in other ways. For the players that skip the text and have no interest in rp it's completely irrelevant as they play in a different style.

Even though there is no impact in the game you are still asked to make choices including: execution/imprisonment/release of prisoners, choosing between characters if one should live and the other is sacrificed, life and death etc. We all understand this is a game but there must be players that find these decisions difficult/enjoyable/attractive.

Can someone who usually plays a hero create a new dark character and change their instinctively good default choices to a colder harder response e.g. execute a prisoner? For those people who really get into rp would it actually be possible? or do they invest so much of themselves in their characters that they can't create this alter ego? Or are there people who have no moral difficulty in this regard and take the old actors view that the villains have the best parts and are more interesting to play.

Just to add I'm not limiting this to ESO as this applies to many games. Can games in general challenge you morally or are they just lightweight fluff? , time killing entertainment?

Oh, I find all of those choices difficult - I like them, though, it adds for a nice atmosphere.

As for the second half of your post, as for me, it can go halfway. I generally always make 'good' characters (with some peculiarities), but I have begun to branch away from that in some games, not too far, and only due to it being in their character to do so. But you're right, even if I were to try and make an extremely dark character in a game for the sake of seeing what it would be like from their eyes, there are some decisions in games that I could just not bring myself to do, even for testing sake, like the choice to kill Parthuurnax in Skyrim, I'd not be able to do that for any character playthrough.

ThirtySevenCoins · April 2015

Robo_Hobo yeah you've always got that instinctive default reaction which is hard to break Paarthurnax was hard partly because I didn't like being forced into that position. I thought it was easier to play the bad guy in Fallout 3 and Fallout NV maybe that's because it had some funnier/absurd results and had some light hearted elements.

bloodenragedb14_ESO · April 2015

Other

Chaotic Neutral

Panda244 · April 2015

Other

ThirtySevenCoins wrote: »

T

Panda244 wrote: »

Regardless of morals I always tend to choose the most pragmatic option, if that means murdering an entire village to save an entire species, so be it.

Call me a cold ***. But pragmatism is a trait severely lacking in today's society....

I guess to make more sense, my Sith Inquisitor in SWTOR is a Sith, obviously, but he wouldn't go out of his way to torture people for no reason, and he wouldn't follow either codes, Jedi, or Sith, he'd simply do what he himself thinks is the best option under all circumstances... Kind of like a Vulcan. Without the *** attitude.

Simply the ruthless calculus of war.

@ThirtySevenCoins

"Civilization.... What is it? Is it something that we created? That -they- created? What is we? What is they? Look at the screen and tell me, Humans, People, Civilization. In war it's not we, it's not they, it's numbers. In the end that's what any of us are, numbers. Pawns, pieces on a chessboard, to be played with by whomever designed it. War is a game. You win, or you die."

Can't remember where I heard that quote from, I wanna say it was from a movie, just can't remember what. But yea, basically any and all of my characters look at the world like this. You either win to live another day, or you die, I love playing my Sith in SWTOR because people always ask how I maintain such a neutral force alignment, and I usually respond with...

"By killing those that deserve life, and letting those that deserve death, live."

Eliteseraph · April 2015

Anti-Hero

Unless the story for a game is VERY immersive, I tend to get tired of the RP aspects very quickly and revert to warfare against the game: Kill everything, smash everything, and more or less accomplish objectives through brute force.

If a game actually has good story that makes me sympathize with a character, then I might play along. I tend to be a good guy, but sometimes it's nice to break out of the norm and be a ruthless character who does things that I would never do in real life.

ThirtySevenCoins · April 2015

Eliteseraph wrote: »

Unless the story for a game is VERY immersive, I tend to get tired of the RP aspects very quickly and revert to warfare against the game: Kill everything, smash everything, and more or less accomplish objectives through brute force.

If a game actually has good story that makes me sympathize with a character, then I might play along. I tend to be a good guy, but sometimes it's nice to break out of the norm and be a ruthless character who does things that I would never do in real life.

Your point about getting tired of RP very quickly, got me thinking about RP content in games and flimsy RP content in particular. I'll play devil's advocate for this next point, please note this point does not refer to dedicated RPers but to vanilla RP game content. The "moral" cynic might say that some companies use RP content as an intellectual veneer or fig leaf to provide justification and context for overly violent games and to influence their rating classification.

Egonieser · April 2015

Other

A careless rushjob that only cares to accomplish things as soon as possible to be over and done with it.

My main however is a heroic and honourable nord.

newtinmpls · April 2015

Other

Interesting question.

I think that any character defines him or herself as "good". That being said, there are quests in this game that I have walked away from because that character could not stomach any of the choices.

I play folks who have reasons for what they do. And for what they don't do. Broken Branch Toothmaul (goblin - using a bosmer template - 'cause I just loved Toothmaul Gully) pickpockets because she doesn't share the "civilized" view of personal property. And she's terrible at it because she doesn't really care about getting caught. And the guards can enforce a fine, 'cause they are tougher than she is. All fine in her worldview.

I also play a an Orc Sorc/Tank who (according to my personal backstory) died in the creation of the Nibenay Valley anchor; so in my mind, when Tharn talks about being the lord of Nibenay Valley - Mol punched him in the face.

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