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Double Take, OP or bugged?
Sav72
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5 shots from range all 5 dodged, did this test 6 times and first 5 shots were dodged, and once it went up to 7 shots in a row dodged.
Ability is suppose to give you a 20 percent dodge rating.
Ability is suppose to give you a 20 percent dodge rating.
Savoifair, EP NB
If you break something, you can glue it back together and fix it, but, it will always be broken...
If you break something, you can glue it back together and fix it, but, it will always be broken...
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deepseamk20b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭I love using this skill but sometime I think it is bugged as well. I fought a guy today and he literally dodged every single thing I threw at him. I am not even joking. He dodged 100% of my offensive skills using blur, not dodge rolling.Hey everyone! Look! It's a signature!1 -
OdinForge✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Sometimes the dodge rating feels higher than it's supposed to be, other times i never notice it. Worth investigating in some detail at least for peace of mind, as there have been times where many attacks of mine were dodged without the use of roll dodge. And times where i seemingly dodge for ages on my main as well.Edited by OdinForge on April 13, 2015 11:31PMThe Age of Wrobel.1 -
Vizier✭✭✭✭✭
✭Are there not other factors involved in dodge? I believe it's a 20% increase to an already significant dodge base for NB's.
Fact is if you only dodged 20% of the time the skill wouldn't be worth keeping on your bar over something else.
Leave well enough alone. There are skills that render some immune to any damage for a short period of time. Blur and it's morphs are akin to that.1 -
Code2501✭✭✭✭Are there not other factors involved in dodge? I believe it's a 20% increase to an already significant dodge base for NB's.
Fact is if you only dodged 20% of the time the skill wouldn't be worth keeping on your bar over something else.
Leave well enough alone. There are skills that render some immune to any damage for a short period of time. Blur and it's morphs are akin to that.
no, if its bugged it should be fixed, the skill is good enough on its description to be worth using. And while they are at it maybe they could fix some of the other bugs NB have.Edited by Code2501 on April 14, 2015 9:08AM0 -
ArgonianAssassin✭✭✭✭Are there not other factors involved in dodge? I believe it's a 20% increase to an already significant dodge base for NB's.
Fact is if you only dodged 20% of the time the skill wouldn't be worth keeping on your bar over something else.
Leave well enough alone. There are skills that render some immune to any damage for a short period of time. Blur and it's morphs are akin to that.
no, if its bugged it should be fixed, the skill is good enough on its description to be worth using. And while they are at it maybe they could fix some of the other bugs NB have.
Gotta disagree with it being good enough with text on the ability, if all it did was increase dodge by 20% and my speed for 4 seconds, I would never use that, if I'm using it for the 20% dodge why not just use shuffle and break snares and gain snare and stun immunity while im at it."It is okay to fear the night, even the bravest warriors are filled with fright, at the sight of the might of Sithis' fang, let the blood be washed away by the rain, let the stains forever remain, another life taken in Sithis' name, another soul for the void. All hail our Dread Father and his consort, the Night Mother." -Stalks-His-Prey0 -
Zsymon✭✭✭✭I tested Shuffle, and there the 20% dodge chance seems normal, but with Double Take it is far, far higher than 20%. Five or six or seven or even eight dodges in a row happened all the time. I would say Double Take has about 80% dodge chance.Edited by Zsymon on April 14, 2015 10:51PM0 -
Caza99✭✭✭✭ArgonianAssassin wrote: »Are there not other factors involved in dodge? I believe it's a 20% increase to an already significant dodge base for NB's.
Fact is if you only dodged 20% of the time the skill wouldn't be worth keeping on your bar over something else.
Leave well enough alone. There are skills that render some immune to any damage for a short period of time. Blur and it's morphs are akin to that.
no, if its bugged it should be fixed, the skill is good enough on its description to be worth using. And while they are at it maybe they could fix some of the other bugs NB have.
Gotta disagree with it being good enough with text on the ability, if all it did was increase dodge by 20% and my speed for 4 seconds, I would never use that, if I'm using it for the 20% dodge why not just use shuffle and break snares and gain snare and stun immunity while im at it.
Shuffle gives stun immunity? I thought it was only snares.
I think Double Take's movement speed is very useful. If it was removed from the skill, I'd have to alter my build. Double Take works well with Dark Cloak, allowing me to move swiftly and get out of trouble if need be.Edited by Caza99 on April 15, 2015 1:17AMPC NA - @MercerESO1 -
ArgonianAssassin✭✭✭✭
It may just be snare, I need to login and double check later.ArgonianAssassin wrote: »Are there not other factors involved in dodge? I believe it's a 20% increase to an already significant dodge base for NB's.
Fact is if you only dodged 20% of the time the skill wouldn't be worth keeping on your bar over something else.
Leave well enough alone. There are skills that render some immune to any damage for a short period of time. Blur and it's morphs are akin to that.
no, if its bugged it should be fixed, the skill is good enough on its description to be worth using. And while they are at it maybe they could fix some of the other bugs NB have.
Gotta disagree with it being good enough with text on the ability, if all it did was increase dodge by 20% and my speed for 4 seconds, I would never use that, if I'm using it for the 20% dodge why not just use shuffle and break snares and gain snare and stun immunity while im at it.
Shuffle gives stun immunity? I thought it was only snares.
I think Double Take's movement speed is very useful. If it was removed from the skill, I'd have to alter my build. Double Take works well with Dark Cloak, allowing me to move swiftly and get out of trouble if need be. Although I do agree that the dodge chance seems higher than the 20%. It may be worth 'looking into' ZoS :P
"It is okay to fear the night, even the bravest warriors are filled with fright, at the sight of the might of Sithis' fang, let the blood be washed away by the rain, let the stains forever remain, another life taken in Sithis' name, another soul for the void. All hail our Dread Father and his consort, the Night Mother." -Stalks-His-Prey0 -
KingShocker✭✭✭I tested Shuffle, and there the 20% dodge chance seems normal, but with Double Take it is far, far higher than 20%. Five or six or seven or even eight dodges in a row happened all the time. I would say Double Take has about 80% dodge chance.
80%? hah ok.
it's RNG guys, 20% doesn't mean you will dodge every fifth attack (although i think it should, i hate RNG in my builds)
it means each attack you recieve has that same 20% chance to be dodge. some of you may have attacked someone where every one of your attacks were proc'ing that 20% chance to be dodged. and as far as i understand there is no internal cooldown on dodges from this ability.
I use it allot and there's some times I feel like i'm dodging allot but they're rare. It's a completely unreliable ability to slot but i do like how well it works while blocking
over a long enough time line that 20% dodge chance will translate into 20% block damage reduction and cost reduction. which is what i think it's intended purpose was because if you're running a glass cannon stealthy nb build 20% is not nearly enough
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Caza99✭✭✭✭
You have said exactly what I was thinking. Some of the posts I'm reading sound as if people are expecting the skill to make the NB dodge 20% of attacks, whereas it is a 20% chance to dodge each and every attack. Very different concepts. So it is very possible to get "Five or six or seven or even eight dodges in a row".KingShocker wrote: »I tested Shuffle, and there the 20% dodge chance seems normal, but with Double Take it is far, far higher than 20%. Five or six or seven or even eight dodges in a row happened all the time. I would say Double Take has about 80% dodge chance.
80%? hah ok.
it's RNG guys, 20% doesn't mean you will dodge every fifth attack (although i think it should, i hate RNG in my builds)
it means each attack you recieve has that same 20% chance to be dodge. some of you may have attacked someone where every one of your attacks were proc'ing that 20% chance to be dodged. and as far as i understand there is no internal cooldown on dodges from this ability.
I use it allot and there's some times I feel like i'm dodging allot but they're rare. It's a completely unreliable ability to slot but i do like how well it works while blocking
over a long enough time line that 20% dodge chance will translate into 20% block damage reduction and cost reduction. which is what i think it's intended purpose was because if you're running a glass cannon stealthy nb build 20% is not nearly enoughEdited by Caza99 on April 15, 2015 1:21AMPC NA - @MercerESO0 -
The_Drexill✭✭✭✭Math is rough.
Skill is working as intended... it's the exact same buff as shuffle. The question literally comes down to- do you want to spend stamina with shuffle, or magicka with double take?Brandizzle - NB
Drexill The Unbreakable - Sorc
For teh covenant.0 -
Zsymon✭✭✭✭I still think it should be tested more thoroughly, because with Shuffle I never ever get eight dodges in a row. The odds of getting eight dodges in a row with a 20% dodge chance, are for a mathematician to calculate, but they are very small, and not something that happens regularly. Yet with Double Take it happens all the time.Edited by Zsymon on April 15, 2015 9:04AM0
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Code2501✭✭✭✭ArgonianAssassin wrote: »Gotta disagree with it being good enough with text on the ability, if all it did was increase dodge by 20% and my speed for 4 seconds, I would never use that, if I'm using it for the 20% dodge why not just use shuffle and break snares and gain snare and stun immunity while im at it.
Well for one, its magicka not stamina resource use so it reserves stamina for dodge rolls, blocks and sprints.
The point I was making however is you don't argue that a bugged skill should stay bugged because it would not be good if it wasn't bugged. Thats a position the devs will just flat out ignore.
If you fix the skill so it is working as intended however and it is under performing then you can present actual facts to the devs as to how it under performs, with like proof and stuff, and they may actually do something about it.
Personally, I'll take Mirage over DT any day, because there are plenty of other skills for a NB to get Major Expedition buff for longer. If you were to argue that the expedition buff needs to be lengthened to 10-12 seconds, that I could agree with. But I'll never agree that bugs should not be fixed.0 -
Cody✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Are there not other factors involved in dodge? I believe it's a 20% increase to an already significant dodge base for NB's.
Fact is if you only dodged 20% of the time the skill wouldn't be worth keeping on your bar over something else.
Leave well enough alone. There are skills that render some immune to any damage for a short period of time. Blur and it's morphs are akin to that.
no, if its bugged it should be fixed, the skill is good enough on its description to be worth using. And while they are at it maybe they could fix some of the other bugs NB have.
20% dodge rating sucks:/
still fix the bug though.Edited by Cody on April 17, 2015 1:08AM0 -
Vizier✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'm more in the camp of "it's working as intended." .. shrug.
I use it now because it's worth it. I still get hit time and again but most times if I use double take as I'm attempting to extract from combat it helps, roughly 70-80% of the time. Since that is about a 10-15% increase pre-1.6 I'm thinking DT is working just about right.0 -
Code2501✭✭✭✭20% dodge rating sucks:/
still fix the bug though.
By itself yes, +20% dodge ain't much, but it comes with a small Crit buff via Pressure Points and either a stupidly short Major Expedition buff or a Minor Resolve buff. While dodge is a more random form of damage mitigation, it adds up over time in pve. I played a monk tank in EQ for years, so I know about rng dodge based tanking, and working with spike damage bursts.
Also the increased chance to swallow a wrecking blow for zero damage and save a chunk of block stamina isn't trivial in pvp.
The thing about a 20% dodge bonus and why it works with the NB class package is that it is part of a layered defense you can scale up to your choosing for the class when combined with other class skills and passives.
Major Ward/Resolve (Shadow Barrier)
Minor Main (Shades/Mass Hysteria)
Minor Vitality (Swallow Soul)
I'm not saying that this makes up for the lack of a burst heal or bubble, but the layering effect, largely from passive buff/debuffs all adds up and works in a way that bolsters the effectiveness of a constant drip of HoT's.0
