Can we get more solo dongeons?

Dru1076 · April 2015

Having just found out it is essential to group up to do anything in the alliance war I am real concerned now that after a certain point I wont have anything at all to do. I don't mind playing in groups, but its so hard for me to get into one. The best loot is in group dongeons, the best fights are in group dongeons. The best xp is in group dongeons. The alliance war, I am told, requires groups to take even a small resource. Craglorn requires groups. Groups groups everywhere...and the group finder doesn't work. I love this game because I love elder scrolls, not because I love mmo's. Its not like i will stop playing...i just wish there was more for people like me to look forward to over the long haul, because once I have finished Caldwell's gold I don't think there will be anything to keep me playing, and that makes me sad.

Elijah_Crow · April 2015

Join a guild. Or five.

This is not a single player game. 90% of the game is a soloable experience. It's perfectly fine to have content which requires multiple players to accomplish. Nothing is broken.

I would also point out that the group size of 4 is one of the smallest group sizes in modern MMO's. Playing with others and becoming part of the community or a guild will increase your enjoyment of the game overall and when you do achieve those group accomplishments they will mean more to you.

Elijah_Crow · April 2015

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

Join a guild. Or five.

This is not a single player game. 90% of the game is a soloable experience. It's perfectly fine to have content which requires multiple players to accomplish. Nothing is broken.

I would also point out that the group size of 4 is one of the smallest group sizes in modern MMO's. Playing with others and becoming part of the community or a guild will increase your enjoyment of the game overall and when you do achieve those group accomplishments they will mean more to you.

Oh, and a new solo zone is in development as well.

ArgonianAssassin · April 2015

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

Join a guild. Or five.

This is not a single player game. 90% of the game is a soloable experience. It's perfectly fine to have content which requires multiple players to accomplish. Nothing is broken.

I would also point out that the group size of 4 is one of the smallest group sizes in modern MMO's. Playing with others and becoming part of the community or a guild will increase your enjoyment of the game overall and when you do achieve those group accomplishments they will mean more to you.

No but it is an online rpg, grouping isn't a requirement, nor should it be. How many mmo's are focused solely on their end game grouping content? Virtually all of them, let us have our 1 online rpg where solo is a viable way to play with the option of doing large scale multiplayer content, and you can go play one of those other thousand mmo's that cater to your needs and desires.

Elijah_Crow · April 2015

ArgonianAssassin wrote: »

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

Join a guild. Or five.

This is not a single player game. 90% of the game is a soloable experience. It's perfectly fine to have content which requires multiple players to accomplish. Nothing is broken.

I would also point out that the group size of 4 is one of the smallest group sizes in modern MMO's. Playing with others and becoming part of the community or a guild will increase your enjoyment of the game overall and when you do achieve those group accomplishments they will mean more to you.

No but it is an online rpg, grouping isn't a requirement, nor should it be. How many mmo's are focused solely on their end game grouping content? Virtually all of them, let us have our 1 online rpg where solo is a viable way to play with the option of doing large scale multiplayer content, and you can go play one of those other thousand mmo's that cater to your needs and desires.

That's the second time in a post you have told me to go play another game. I would appreciate you not do that any longer. I have every right to express my hopes and desires for the game as you do.

I chose ESO because it offers solo play, group play, lots of PvE, and good solid PvP.

ESO was never meant to be a solo RPG. Please don't claim that it is supposed to be. I respect that you want to only solo, but if the game becomes only solo content it will loose many players. I prefer a balance be maintained.

ArgonianAssassin · April 2015

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

ArgonianAssassin wrote: »

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

Join a guild. Or five.

This is not a single player game. 90% of the game is a soloable experience. It's perfectly fine to have content which requires multiple players to accomplish. Nothing is broken.

I would also point out that the group size of 4 is one of the smallest group sizes in modern MMO's. Playing with others and becoming part of the community or a guild will increase your enjoyment of the game overall and when you do achieve those group accomplishments they will mean more to you.

No but it is an online rpg, grouping isn't a requirement, nor should it be. How many mmo's are focused solely on their end game grouping content? Virtually all of them, let us have our 1 online rpg where solo is a viable way to play with the option of doing large scale multiplayer content, and you can go play one of those other thousand mmo's that cater to your needs and desires.

That's the second time in a post you have told me to go play another game. I would appreciate you not do that any longer. I have every right to express my hopes and desires for the game as you do.

I chose ESO because it offers solo play, group play, lots of PvE, and good solid PvP.

ESO was never meant to be a solo RPG. Please don't claim that it is supposed to be. I respect that you want to only solo, but if the game becomes only solo content it will loose many players. I prefer a balance be maintained.

I don't want to only solo, and you'll be hard pressed to find any quote of mine where I say I want the game to be solo, or single player only because that's not what I want, nor have I ever advocated for a solo only game type. I never said it was meant to be a solo rpg, in fact I called it an online rpg, I respect your wants and desires and hopes for the game, but you're advocating for forced group content when it comes to simple questing. And if that's what you want there are multiple mmo's that adhere to that desire, and I don't want to see eso become another one of those cookie cutter mmo's. You don't achieve balance by ostracizing a part of your community, the solo'ers and the questers by creating group only zones.

Dru1076 · April 2015

I don't mind there being incentives for grouping up. But I do find it frustrating that a very large percentage of the game outside the quests FORCES me to group up. As I said... If the group finder tool worked this would make a lot more sense. But it doesn't, does it? And as I pointed out, all the best fights and loot require grouping to get. Undaunted pledges etc...no need to go on too much.

How about more solo stuff...at least until the grouping tool is remedied?

Elijah_Crow · April 2015

ArgonianAssassin wrote: »

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

ArgonianAssassin wrote: »

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

Join a guild. Or five.

This is not a single player game. 90% of the game is a soloable experience. It's perfectly fine to have content which requires multiple players to accomplish. Nothing is broken.

I would also point out that the group size of 4 is one of the smallest group sizes in modern MMO's. Playing with others and becoming part of the community or a guild will increase your enjoyment of the game overall and when you do achieve those group accomplishments they will mean more to you.

No but it is an online rpg, grouping isn't a requirement, nor should it be. How many mmo's are focused solely on their end game grouping content? Virtually all of them, let us have our 1 online rpg where solo is a viable way to play with the option of doing large scale multiplayer content, and you can go play one of those other thousand mmo's that cater to your needs and desires.

That's the second time in a post you have told me to go play another game. I would appreciate you not do that any longer. I have every right to express my hopes and desires for the game as you do.

I chose ESO because it offers solo play, group play, lots of PvE, and good solid PvP.

ESO was never meant to be a solo RPG. Please don't claim that it is supposed to be. I respect that you want to only solo, but if the game becomes only solo content it will loose many players. I prefer a balance be maintained.

I don't want to only solo, I never said it was meant to be a solo rpg, in fact I called it an online rpg, I respect your wants and desires and hopes for the game, but you're advocating for forced group content when it comes to simple questing. And if that's what you want there are multiple mmo's that adhere to that desire, and I don't want to see eso become another one of those cookie cutter mmo's.

This really belongs in the other thread but Craglorn was designed as a special Adventure Zone which requires a group. There is nothing wrong with this. It's not broken and perfectly welcome in an MMO. I'm sorry you feel that this excludes you, but it provides much loved group questing content to others.

You don't see me asking that they take some of the solo zones and make them group only do you? 90% of the game caters to your solo play style but instead of appreciating that it has even more to offer, you are asking that it be changed to your play style because 90% just isn't enough for you.

golfer.dub17_ESO · April 2015

They might as well make most of the delves into optional solo instances.

I say this because once you get more than a few people in there, everything dies instantly and presents no challenge to anyone.

Those who want to fight through a cave as a group have public dungeons and group dungeons to do.

Dru1076 · April 2015

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

ArgonianAssassin wrote: »

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

ArgonianAssassin wrote: »

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

Join a guild. Or five.

This is not a single player game. 90% of the game is a soloable experience. It's perfectly fine to have content which requires multiple players to accomplish. Nothing is broken.

I would also point out that the group size of 4 is one of the smallest group sizes in modern MMO's. Playing with others and becoming part of the community or a guild will increase your enjoyment of the game overall and when you do achieve those group accomplishments they will mean more to you.

No but it is an online rpg, grouping isn't a requirement, nor should it be. How many mmo's are focused solely on their end game grouping content? Virtually all of them, let us have our 1 online rpg where solo is a viable way to play with the option of doing large scale multiplayer content, and you can go play one of those other thousand mmo's that cater to your needs and desires.

That's the second time in a post you have told me to go play another game. I would appreciate you not do that any longer. I have every right to express my hopes and desires for the game as you do.

I chose ESO because it offers solo play, group play, lots of PvE, and good solid PvP.

ESO was never meant to be a solo RPG. Please don't claim that it is supposed to be. I respect that you want to only solo, but if the game becomes only solo content it will loose many players. I prefer a balance be maintained.

I don't want to only solo, I never said it was meant to be a solo rpg, in fact I called it an online rpg, I respect your wants and desires and hopes for the game, but you're advocating for forced group content when it comes to simple questing. And if that's what you want there are multiple mmo's that adhere to that desire, and I don't want to see eso become another one of those cookie cutter mmo's.

This really belongs in the other thread but Craglorn was designed as a special Adventure Zone which requires a group. There is nothing wrong with this. It's not broken and perfectly welcome in an MMO. I'm sorry you feel that this excludes you, but it provides much loved group questing content to others.

Um...completely unrelated to what I am asking for. I only want more stuff, not less of anything or any changes to what exists.

Elijah_Crow · April 2015

Dru1076 wrote: »

I don't mind there being incentives for grouping up. But I do find it frustrating that a very large percentage of the game outside the quests FORCES me to group up. As I said... If the group finder tool worked this would make a lot more sense. But it doesn't, does it? And as I pointed out, all the best fights and loot require grouping to get. Undaunted pledges etc...no need to go on too much.

How about more solo stuff...at least until the grouping tool is remedied?

Actually most of the best gear is crafted and dungeons don't give very good xp.

ArgonianAssassin · April 2015

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

Dru1076 wrote: »

I don't mind there being incentives for grouping up. But I do find it frustrating that a very large percentage of the game outside the quests FORCES me to group up. As I said... If the group finder tool worked this would make a lot more sense. But it doesn't, does it? And as I pointed out, all the best fights and loot require grouping to get. Undaunted pledges etc...no need to go on too much.

How about more solo stuff...at least until the grouping tool is remedied?

Actually most of the best gear is crafted and dungeons don't give very good xp.

Then why is skirmisher one of the valuable sets in the game found only in craglorn trials?

You don't see me asking that they take some of the solo zones and make them group only do you? 90% of the game caters to your solo play style but instead of appreciating that it has even more to offer, you are asking that it be changed to your play style because 90% just isn't enough for you.

What can I accomplish with that 90%? What does it do? I can go from level 1 to v12. I can earn a couple of achievements. But I'll never get that highly sought after v14 skirmisher set, only found in craglorn trials, or it's other drop only variations such as warlock, red mountain and so on. I'll never even be able to experience it's story, the quests, which is all I want is to be able to quest in the zone, unhindered. I don't want to take away your group content, I want to make questing soloable. Doesn't even need to have the stats lowered on the mobs or anything. Just let me through the gates and get punished by the enemies as they see fit if I'm unable to take them myself. Just let me into your circle, I don't want to break it, but make it stronger.

Dru1076 · April 2015

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

Dru1076 wrote: »

I don't mind there being incentives for grouping up. But I do find it frustrating that a very large percentage of the game outside the quests FORCES me to group up. As I said... If the group finder tool worked this would make a lot more sense. But it doesn't, does it? And as I pointed out, all the best fights and loot require grouping to get. Undaunted pledges etc...no need to go on too much.

How about more solo stuff...at least until the grouping tool is remedied?

Actually most of the best gear is crafted and dungeons don't give very good xp.

Not all loot is gear...and mobs do give excellent xp, and a little extra if you group up.

I'm not asking for the death of Craglorn, just more stuff that I can do without a group.

Elijah_Crow · April 2015

There are builds you can develop for your character which will allow you to solo things which otherwise would require a group like world bosses, dolmens, and even in some small scale 1 on 1 or 2 PvP. I used to have trouble dealing with pulls of more than 2 mobs.

I want into Craglorn at VR 6 and got killed in the first pull. I started reading up on builds and was able to make a few tweaks and by the time I was VR7 I could handle large groups solo 6 or more.

If you really want to accomplish as much solo as possible I recommend building your character specifically for it.

There is a post on the forums of someone solo'ing a 12 man trial boss.

Dru1076 · April 2015

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

There are builds you can develop for your character which will allow you to solo things which otherwise would require a group like world bosses, dolmens, and even in some small scale 1 on 1 or 2 PvP. I used to have trouble dealing with pulls of more than 2 mobs.

I want into Craglorn at VR 6 and got killed in the first pull. I started reading up on builds and was able to make a few tweaks and by the time I was VR7 I could handle large groups solo 6 or more.

If you really want to accomplish as much solo as possible I recommend building your character specifically for it.

There is a post on the forums of someone solo'ing a 12 man trial boss.

Thanks mate. I will definitely look into improving my build in the very very near future.

BloodStorm · April 2015

I know some 4 man dungeons can be 2 manned but a 2 man dungeon setting would be interesting. You get half the Exp perhaps or some type of difference.

SpiritusSancti · April 2015

I think they'll add solo content with high end gear because a game that does and a game that does it well must benefit. Every game I've ever played has had forum threads exactly like these that ask for solo content. If they do it well and if word gets out they'll pull in solo players.

I definitely don't think solo content should come at the expense of group play and I'm happy for Craglorn to remain exactly as it is but I wish for solo zones where there is a chance for very challenging solo encounters to net me high end gear with stats to match the gear grouped players can find.

That's the essence of the OP as I see it. I don't want the venues or the rewards offered by the grouped encounters to be made available to solo players. I want solo zones where you can expend the same amount of time, energy, resources, skill and luck (ALONE) to net comparable rewards to those found in Craglorn.

I don't want it any easier or harder. I just want the option to obtain it via solo play. And I don't want it at the expense of existing grouped content. Solo and grouped play are not mutually exclusive.

Enodoc · April 2015

Dru1076 wrote: »

Having just found out it is essential to group up to do anything in the alliance war I am real concerned now that after a certain point I wont have anything at all to do.

Personally I don't agree with that. Keep watching /zone chat, and go to where the action is, and you don't actually need to be part of a group. When you see a mass of people leaving to go somewhere else, tag along and see where they go. I've done this a lot and it has led to some great experiences (and great eXPerience as well).

Faulgor · April 2015

I'd rather see scaled vet versions of the current delves, as they are beautiful but heavily underused. Something along the lines of Undaunted dailies for rewards.

Heromofo · April 2015

Id love to see more solo content because just waiting for elder scrolls six.

UrQuan · April 2015

Here's the problem: There's very little challenging group content while leveling, as almost everything while leveling is easily completed solo. Conversely, there's very little endgame solo content, as basically everything endgame requires groups (or, in the case of overworld Craglorn, doesn't require groups, but is designed for groups).

I think both of those things should change. There should be more challenging group content while leveling (yes, I know you can group through most of the leveling content, but that tends to make it a faceroll), and there should be a decent amount of endgame solo content (as part of a push for more endgame content in general - there needs to be more group endgame content too).

The balance isn't right at the moment, and I think it's a problem both for primarily solo players, and for primarily group players.

vovus69 · April 2015

100% agree with OP. We need more solo end game content. Now it is really in favor of groups/pvp. This is really bad thing. I hope zos will make DLC for solo end game like Murkmire and spellcrafting as soon as they will be done with console stuff. This will help a lot to level the situation.

UrQuan · April 2015

Enodoc wrote: »

Dru1076 wrote: »

Having just found out it is essential to group up to do anything in the alliance war I am real concerned now that after a certain point I wont have anything at all to do.

Personally I don't agree with that. Keep watching /zone chat, and go to where the action is, and you don't actually need to be part of a group. When you see a mass of people leaving to go somewhere else, tag along and see where they go. I've done this a lot and it has led to some great experiences (and great eXPerience as well).

Not too long ago, while on a skyshard run in Cyrodiil (I really don't PVP), I noticed in zone chat that people were chasing an enemy player who was evidently trying to get a stolen scroll to an enemy keep. I happened to be close to that keep, and I happened to be done with my skyshard run anyway, so I was kind of looking to get killed by an enemy for the free teleport anyway. So what the heck, I ran over to where the enemies were going to be riding by on their horses, and I ambushed them using some CC abilities. Of course I was slaughtered, but I might just have slowed them down long enough for the guys chasing them to stop them from getting away with the scroll. And hey, if not, at least I got to die and res back at the gate where I wanted to be.

TheShadowScout · April 2015

We are getting a new solo zone someday in the not too distant future.
And Some of the dwelves in cyrodil are soloable as i found... it takes some skill, but some are doable. And defeating the bosses in there feels really good when you manage it all on your own ;-)

But its true that the solo endgame is a bit lacking. Though that is not too much of a surprise, most games go for groupyness at the end... guilds ahve been mentioned, a lot of the "group" stuff can be done with just one friend along, though I guess the harder stuff still needs a proper trinity to deal with...

Personally, as long as they keep going this way with their new locations (solo/group/PvP in equal measure), I'll be happy. Though I still wish you could get a V12 version of your home zones after completing cadwells gold, and have some daily solo quests to do there between PvP or dungeon runs...

TheTwistedRune · April 2015

UrQuan wrote: »

Here's the problem: There's very little challenging group content while leveling, as almost everything while leveling is easily completed solo. Conversely, there's very little endgame solo content, as basically everything endgame requires groups (or, in the case of overworld Craglorn, doesn't require groups, but is designed for groups).

I think both of those things should change. There should be more challenging group content while leveling (yes, I know you can group through most of the leveling content, but that tends to make it a faceroll), and there should be a decent amount of endgame solo content (as part of a push for more endgame content in general - there needs to be more group endgame content too).

The balance isn't right at the moment, and I think it's a problem both for primarily solo players, and for primarily group players.

This^^ 100%.

NewBlacksmurf · April 2015

@Dru1076 The game is designed in a way with an online requirement coupled with two mega servers to ensure that players run into one another quite often. Its also designed to allow a fair amount of free roaming and choice.

While certain parts do require you to group, there are other parts that do not allow any grouping or co-op and then there is middle ground.

I believe ZOS has made largely a lot of content doable solo from levels 1-VR14, but the dungeons by design are content that appease those who are seeking group encounters.

vovus69 · April 2015

Agree with OP. As I said multiple times - there is not enough end game solo content wrt group/solo end game stuff. So I hope zos will make a DLC murkmire or some other thing which will be solo end dame content with proper sets and motifs. Will see. I would personally like to see spellcrafting first, but we know that it is probably not gonna happen until at least New Year or so... It is a pity. Will see.

wilsonirayb16_ESO · April 2015

golfer.dub17_ESO wrote: »

They might as well make most of the delves into optional solo instances.

I say this because once you get more than a few people in there, everything dies instantly and presents no challenge to anyone.

Those who want to fight through a cave as a group have public dungeons and group dungeons to do.

100% agreed. I come from the original EverQuest(among other MMOs from then and now), where all dungeon zones were shared(obviously no instancing back then). One of the frustrations was having to 'compete' over mobs for PVE purposes. Back then of course, they didn't know any better as programmers and it wasn't until some later games where they started to address this with instancing of zones.

However these days, while shared dungeons is a welcome novelty - it gets out of hand quickly. As per your comment, you often enter zones only to find virtually everything is dead or cleared and there's nothing for you to do except run to your quest objective, hit "E" then zone out.

It's boring and meaningless - why even put mobs in there at all?
It looks ridiculous watching fifty people all sprint jumping around doing the same 'epic' quest. Forty-eight of them not actually doing the quest, just running past and completing it.
People don't actually get together or do stuff with one another when in the shared dungeons. They don't interact in any way. MMO players are delusional if they think that MMORPGs actual require a sense of community any more.
For actual instanced four man dungeons, you can manage with two or three people, however the quest requires four people for the actual objectives. This completely flies in the face of any one wanting a challenge or not necessarily having three other dependable people to play with.

The argument for group vs solo, or 'MMORPG' has to be about grouping or etc. is irrelevant. There are plenty of modern games that offer content for both play styles and interests. Why ESO couldn't also be one is simply a failure by the developers. If they were really KEEN on group content, then they should have spoken to Brad McQuaid or John Smedley - instead of releasing this over hyped yet watered down game (when they should have just made a net code for Skyrim....).

So if nothing else, they need to make the dungeons private or public instanced (your choice via a flag in your player options).

Just give us the choice - I want to actually play the dungeon(and so do my friends).

*EDIT: Got a friend to start playing ESO for the first time. I peppered him with positivity, hailing the game's combat system and how it embraces even simple strategy, to really take ownership of a situation.
After forty-five minutes of playing, and our first trip into a dungeon, his initial complaint went like this :

'wtf..where are all the mobs'
'oh ya dude, um how do I tell you..it's shared instances'
'say what?'
'ya, uh, ...'
'man that's lame, so we don't have to fight any thing?'
'nope...'
'oh wait there's some respawned over here!'
'ok cool, strategy?'
'let's sneak around that far side and I'll stun the first one, then we burn the second'
'ok let's do it!
'ready?'
'ya'
'now!'

::mob dies before we hit it::

'wtf?'
'ugh someone killed it'

::repeat this for about fifteen minutes::

A lot of long sighs later over TeamSpeak - finally a break in the silence ... 'wow this is an embarrassment to MMOs or RPGs for that matter. Whomever thought this up should be shot.'

Worstluck · April 2015

I'd like more solo content sure. A lot of Craglorn is soloable, it's just completely pointless to do so. There isn't a reason to do the group delves beyond the skyshard, and the quests are boring and pointless (to me). The XP is just awful there as well. Craglorn should have been mix of solo and group play (just more slanted toward group play), but they chose to make almost exclusively group content for whatever reason.

Honestly, if they could just create a workable group finder, I would be very happy. Right now I do not care for spamming zone chat if no one in any guild wants to do anything.

Sinthrax · April 2015

I would like more group content. I have ran the crap in the game 1000 times. Heck, at this point I would just settle for playable content.