why Patch on Monday at this time?? It's messing with the Guild merchant system!!!!!!!

Darlgon · April 2015

Sethria wrote: »

Yes There is a broken vendor in greenshade,,, if you complete 2 quest in the area near that vendor he will disappear for that toon,
Take a Toon over to that loc that has not done any of the quest in that area and you will see that vendor.

Interesting.. where is he/she? And, did you /bug em?

Cuyler · April 2015

I could repost a comment I made from July 2014 about this exact topic. Doesn't seem like they have any intention of changing it.

eventide03b14a_ESO · April 2015

Terminus1 wrote: »

I am not sure how their merchant system operates so my comment my be entirely wrong here - if so, let me apologize in advance.

The merchant system should actually be a part of the weekly maintenance session. It should be timed so that it coincides with any updates etc.

Just so I am sure I understand what you're saying. "I don't know how this works so I'm going to give my opinion on it." Is that about right?

blackronin83x · April 2015

In defense of the merchant system, I like it because it allows for inefficiency to occur with regularity in the market (micro markets determined by GT/City combos) that can be exploited by a savvy trader. You do have to spend some time to find and exploit these but like anything in this game, (or life in general) time spent = greater rewards. Centralizing the system might make it easier on some of you in the short run but in the long run, for those who enjoy buying/trading/selling, it makes it kind of bland.

That being said, there is room for improvement, but I think the foundation is sound.

Komma · April 2015

They should have them reset the same time as the daily quests. around midnight sunday nights. problem would be solved and people could get more sleep! If this issue doesn't affect you fine but it does affect some. Many don't have millions to bid on the vendors to assure they get them. They do their best to get a vendor. This may not affect trading guilds but it does affect normal guilds.

Terminus1 · April 2015

I DO understand then! Awesome!!!

Sounds like the need for an add-on that will help you with this.

Personally, I think this would be a fantastic use of a phone app or an off-line app. But it would require some DevTime ( maybe 4 guys for a week on ZOS level).

But more importantly - I think this would be a great time for ZOS to rethink it's implementation for guild stores. As it is now this system is not working as intended.

hiyde · April 2015

As has been mentioned here, the real issue is that if you don't win your bid, there isn't time to hunt for an open kiosk that hasn't been bid on. You're then subject to whenever the servers come back up (and with it being during work hours on a Monday, many can't even log in to TRY for an open kiosk)

Also, the 7:55AM (EDT) 4:55AM (PDT) turnover is brutal on many GM's in the U.S. And during non daylight savings, that becomes 6:55AM and 3:55AM.

A group of NA Trade Guilds has put together a ton of suggestions for Kiosk/Trading improvements. (you'll see the post here on the forums)

We asked that the kiosk deadline be more in line with primetime so that GM's aren't having to get up at 4-5-6-7 in the morning just to see if they won their bid or not.

ZoS, this seems like such a simple fix. Just look at peak times in your game and it's very clear that Trade GMs are being forced to log in at a time they normally wouldn't, just to see if they won their bid (and if not, hunt for a kiosk). The servers shutting down for maintenance 1 minute after bids process drags this whole process even further, adding to the inconvenience.

I'm sure those that don't have to deal with kiosk bids thinks this is trivial (and in the overall scheme of things, it probably is). But if you're guild is dedicated to trading - a kiosk is vital. Early morning bid deadlines slammed up against server maintenance just seems unnecessary.

Tess_Phyreforge · April 2015

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

Just put a bid in the previous night then. They adjusted the permission for guilds so people can't spy on the bids unless they themselves can make the bid. And besides, the change only lasts for what, 6 months.

all officers in our Guild can place a bid, BUT.......You can bid on ONE location ONLY per week... it don't matter when you place the bid during the week, you may update your bid anytime during the week at THAT location only.

But there are quite a few guilds that have 5 Guild merchants up and running at the same time for 1 guild.
They name the Guilds almost the same but a little twist at the end, like Red, Gold, Blue.

One guild I have seen their vendors up at Craglorn, Skywatch , Ebonheart, Sentinel, at the same time.
One of their vendors will have more then 1000 items on it but the others are place holders and have less then 100 so they are abusing the system.

I even seen vendors win a bid and that Merchant has 0 items to sell, so you know that guild is doing the same thing.

There are many guilds doing this making it really hard for the other guilds to get a Guild Merchant location.

Nestor · April 2015

Darlgon wrote: »

Sethria wrote: »

Interesting.. where is he/she? And, did you /bug em?

I can not remember the name of the wayshrine, but it is in the central north part of the map. You can see the Kiosk Icon just north of the WS. But you never see the merchant NPC, only the Kiosk, if you have done those quests.

Tess_Phyreforge · April 2015

Nestor wrote: »

Darlgon wrote: »

Sethria wrote: »

Interesting.. where is he/she? And, did you /bug em?

I can not remember the name of the wayshrine, but it is in the central north part of the map. You can see the Kiosk Icon just north of the WS. But you never see the merchant NPC, only the Kiosk, if you have done those quests.

Yes I have reported it many months ago its been like this since the start of the Guild merchant system, its the one in the North section of the map.
A GM was the one that replied to me telling me if I had completed 2 quest objectives in the area then it vanishes,
Bad part is they are main story line quest and its a phasing issue.
simple solution.... just move its location

Flaminir · April 2015

Terminus1 wrote: »

I DO understand then! Awesome!!!

Sounds like the need for an add-on that will help you with this.

Personally, I think this would be a fantastic use of a phone app or an off-line app. But it would require some DevTime ( maybe 4 guys for a week on ZOS level).

But more importantly - I think this would be a great time for ZOS to rethink it's implementation for guild stores. As it is now this system is not working as intended.

Sorry... but if you think that an App of some kind will help then you clearly don't.

There is nothing to help with.....

We have all placed our bids....

We wait until the switchover to see if we have won or lost, and then BAM... the server goes down as they switchover.

We then can't get back into the game until the server comes back up... we have no idea when that is, we don't know if we won or lost, so can't plan to be online, and then can't go & look for a backup trader if we lost our bid.

All they need to do to fix this is just put the traders back to switching over an hour before they take the server down for maintenance... its a very very easy fix.

Terminus1 · April 2015

Work with me on this...

You have an app that is up to the minute current with all kiosks and the number of bids on each kiosk. It will not tell you the amount bid on any kiosk. Just the number of bids on each kiosk. You want a kiosk that is cheap and it doesn't matter where you put it? Great! Check the app and find some with 0 bids and place it. You want a GREAT location for kiosks? This app would prolly help there too. Just look for the kiosks that has the most bids. Then bid accordingly.

An app would help.

STILL the real reason there is any debate on this is moot - this system sucks at best. Having to run all over Tamriel to find THE best priced store is kinda dumb.

You see - running all around looking for the best prices and gear takes you SO LONG to do that it really is more beneficial to just buy the first damned thing you can find and then get back to farming more cash. YOU MAKE CASH SO FAST that it is smarter to just buy anywhere and get back in a dungeon.

Flaminir · April 2015

Terminus1 wrote: »

Work with me on this...

You have an app that is up to the minute current with all kiosks and the number of bids on each kiosk. It will not tell you the amount bid on any kiosk. Just the number of bids on each kiosk. You want a kiosk that is cheap and it doesn't matter where you put it? Great! Check the app and find some with 0 bids and place it. You want a GREAT location for kiosks? This app would prolly help there too. Just look for the kiosks that has the most bids. Then bid accordingly.

An app would help.

STILL the real reason there is any debate on this is moot - this system sucks at best. Having to run all over Tamriel to find THE best priced store is kinda dumb.

You see - running all around looking for the best prices and gear takes you SO LONG to do that it really is more beneficial to just buy the first damned thing you can find and then get back to farming more cash. YOU MAKE CASH SO FAST that it is smarter to just buy anywhere and get back in a dungeon.

What you are talking about is a total reworking of the entire guild trader bidding system.... this will simply not happen.

ZoS will never create an external app to do this... why would they? It would be tremendously expensive, totally pointless as it would generate them zero revenue, and they could fix the entire issue we are talking about in this thread with just altering the time in the code by 1hour.

There are plenty of threads on the if's, but's, why's etc of the guild trader system as a whole.... that's not what this thread is about though.

Its about a very specific issue which has occurred due to the time changes in the past month or two, and which would be a very quick & easy fix for ZoS to resolve.

seanvwolf · April 2015

Can't believe this is a thing you are discussing. I'll explain why below.

TL:DR People

Eventually there will be so many players on that there won't be empty stalls. Don't waste time on this, ZOS. Just make more vendor stalls with your new zones and make a craft station/banker pagoda close to existing guild vendor clusters.

Time is Relative
What happens if they change the vendor bid close times and then move it to say "2am" in the morning, which is what time the dailies reset for us in the East Coast (not our prime time), or the other countless other players who also play at times other than your optimal time. At least with the system they've got now, most active players patch and login as soon as possible after a maintenance--something to do with mmo psychological tendencies.

Space is Relative
Let's say they do this and now dailies pop and the merchants reset and you lose your bid. Now you are running around trying to find an empty stall and start to complain that you can't tell where all the empty stalls are (automagically) and that there's not enough time to zone to other areas or that you get timed out due to the massive influx of activity in the vendor parts of the cities, all people looking to make a compensatory attempt at their lost vendor bid. Changing the times will only make these runs more hectic for those who absolutely depend on an empty vendor stall.

Limited Vendor Stalls
There are many young guilds in ESO. As guilds evolve from being simply PvE, PvP, RP or Social focused guilds, they will eventually learn that trading is a thing they can do and take advantage of. As the population grows, there will be less and less incentive to win vendors in higher traffic areas as some people will simply avoid spots for whatever reason (latency, market demographic, immersion, etc). Eventually this won't even be an issue. Win your bids or loose them. No race involved.

Flaminir · April 2015

seanvwolf wrote: »

Can't believe this is a thing you are discussing. I'll explain why below.

TL:DR People
Eventually there will be so many players on that there won't be empty stalls. Don't waste time on this, ZOS. Just make more vendor stalls with your new zones and make a craft station/banker pagoda close to existing guild vendor clusters.

Time is Relative
What happens if they change the vendor bid close times and then move it to say "2am" in the morning, which is what time the dailies reset for us in the East Coast (not our prime time), or the other countless other players who also play at times other than your optimal time. At least with the system they've got now, most active players patch and login as soon as possible after a maintenance--something to do with mmo psychological tendencies.

Space is Relative
Let's say they do this and now dailies pop and the merchants reset and you lose your bid. Now you are running around trying to find an empty stall and start to complain that you can't tell where all the empty stalls are (automagically) and that there's not enough time to zone to other areas or that you get timed out due to the massive influx of activity in the vendor parts of the cities, all people looking to make a compensatory attempt at their lost vendor bid. Changing the times will only make these runs more hectic for those who absolutely depend on an empty vendor stall.

Limited Vendor Stalls
There are many young guilds in ESO. As guilds evolve from being simply PvE, PvP, RP or Social focused guilds, they will eventually learn that trading is a thing they can do and take advantage of. As the population grows, there will be less and less incentive to win vendors in higher traffic areas as some people will simply avoid spots for whatever reason (latency, market demographic, immersion, etc). Eventually this won't even be an issue. Win your bids or loose them. No race involved.

Eventually... but not yet!

& don't forget that there will likely be new guild traders introduced as new areas are released... we just got a whole load of new ones with the outlaws refuges too.

And given how simple this should be to fix (Changing the time by just 1 hour in the code), why WOULDN'T they do such a simple fix which is going to make a difference to some of the people in the game who put a lot of time & effort in to help others?

For the foreseeable future this is an issue... & an issue which is very easily solved if ZoS wants to.

glak · April 2015

Many guilds wait until the very last to bid just to avoid the entire guild from seeing the bid late Sunday night.

pete5210b14_ESO wrote: »

C0pp3rhead wrote: »

You spelled you're wrong.

Watch out, the grammar police are out.

I need coffee...

stewhead2ub17_ESO · April 2015

Terminus1 wrote: »

The really odd thing is that for NA, industry standard for patches/deliveries is Tuesday. ZOS is the only company that I know of that does not comply. Doing maintenance on a Monday is nothing short of foolishness. There are just too many things that happen over a weekend that can (and do) affect deliverables.

I'm not sure this is true anymore. I play other mmo's that patch on other days. Rift, for example is done on Wednesdays.

LEGENDARYYY · April 2015

Tonight I stayed up late to secure a trader for my new guild. I was excited. I kinda like how the system works.

BUT THEN I GOT MAINTENANCE IN THE MIDDLE OF MY FACE AND NOW I HAVE TO WAIT FOR HOURS LOOKING AT THE ESO LAUNCHER?!?!?!?!!?

How can people defend this. You are obviously NOT GMs, and ur not from Europe.

Maybe I should just give up, and unsubscribe in the process.

SteveCampsOut · April 2015

Sethria wrote: »

CitraBenzoet_ESO wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

Saucy_Jack wrote: »

The funny part is that in my travels every week I come across at least two kiosks that have no guild vendor. So there definitely is enough.

..are you sure they are not bugged? If we don't get a trader I literally go to EVERY trader in the game. Sometimes traders "appear" unhired (no tabard, no name when targeting).. but believe me.. they're hired.

speaking of bugged guild traders.... Unsure if this occurs in the other zones (would assume it would) but in Cadwells silver for DC, i think its in Greenshade, there is a guild trader out in the wilderness alone. The problem is that the area it is in is instanced. So you can port in to a wayshrine with in viewing distance of the guild trader. But as soon as you cross an imaginary line (walking towards the guild trader) he will disappear. The kiosk is still there but no trader. Its been reported. So I feel terribly sad for the poor souls who waste money on that kiosk and wonder why no one is buying....

but yeah back to the original point.

Mondays have always been maintenance days. And as someone who has always had Mondays off from work it sucks but not the end of the world.

Yes There is a broken vendor in greenshade,,, if you complete 2 quest in the area near that vendor he will disappear for that toon,
Take a Toon over to that loc that has not done any of the quest in that area and you will see that vendor.

Which two quests? Are they avoidable? IE: Not Main Questline?

timidobserver · April 2015

I haven't read this thread, so I don't know if anyone else mentioned it. But yeh, so... they fixed the guild history thing. You could literally place your bid for next week today if you want. Nobody will see it that doesn't have permission to place a bid.

nerevarine1138 · April 2015

LEGENDARYYY wrote: »

Tonight I stayed up late to secure a trader for my new guild. I was excited. I kinda like how the system works.

BUT THEN I GOT MAINTENANCE IN THE MIDDLE OF MY FACE AND NOW I HAVE TO WAIT FOR HOURS LOOKING AT THE ESO LAUNCHER?!?!?!?!!?

How can people defend this. You are obviously NOT GMs, and ur not from Europe.

Maybe I should just give up, and unsubscribe in the process.

That sounds like a reasonable response to your not paying attention to maintenance announcements.

Gandrhulf_Harbard · April 2015

Flaminir wrote: »

We used to prepare for this by being online, looking for a spare trader that hadn't been bid on to be able to provide this service for the members of our guilds (Essential if you a a trade guild)... but by the time change of 1 hour we now can't do this.

So our ability has actually been removed to 'prepare for this weekly event' as you put it.

But as it affects EVERYONE else who is interested in bidding equally there is no disadvantage to anyone.

What you are talking about is it is inconvenient for you.

Kind of like its inconvenient for anyone not in a trading guild who wants to trade.

But we got told "stop QQing and just accept that not everything is going to be easy-mode".

What goes around, comes around.

All The Best

lordxyrax_ESO · April 2015

stewhead2ub17_ESO wrote: »

Terminus1 wrote: »

The really odd thing is that for NA, industry standard for patches/deliveries is Tuesday. ZOS is the only company that I know of that does not comply. Doing maintenance on a Monday is nothing short of foolishness. There are just too many things that happen over a weekend that can (and do) affect deliverables.

I'm not sure this is true anymore. I play other mmo's that patch on other days. Rift, for example is done on Wednesdays.

The point that was trying to be made is that there are 2 days of the work week you NEVER patch on except for emergencies. Monday's and Fridays.

- Mondays because as stated earlier, there are things that can happen over the weekend that could impact deliverable's. Instead, use Monday's to validate and prepare for a patch on Tuesday or Wednesday.

- Friday's because if something blows up, you risk needing employees to work over the weekend which in some cases results in overtime costs. Also, for games, weekends are the biggest play times for most people so you end up risking pissing off a large portion of your customer base.

This is common practice in the IT world. Large corporations rarely move any kind of software updates live on Monday's or Friday's. It's just too risky and poor management. It's a nightmare waiting to happen.

[edit] Forgot to mention that Monday's and Friday's are the most common days people take off so you're also risking staff shortage those days in the event of a problem.

Arkadius · April 2015

glak wrote: »

Many guilds wait until the very last to bid just to avoid the entire guild from seeing the bid late Sunday

Only members, that have the rights to hire a trader, can see the current bids. Think this was introduced with 1.6. However, it's still possible to make conclusions based on the guild bank balance.

LEGENDARYYY · April 2015

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

LEGENDARYYY wrote: »

Tonight I stayed up late to secure a trader for my new guild. I was excited. I kinda like how the system works.

BUT THEN I GOT MAINTENANCE IN THE MIDDLE OF MY FACE AND NOW I HAVE TO WAIT FOR HOURS LOOKING AT THE ESO LAUNCHER?!?!?!?!!?

How can people defend this. You are obviously NOT GMs, and ur not from Europe.

Maybe I should just give up, and unsubscribe in the process.

That sounds like a reasonable response to your not paying attention to maintenance announcements.

I did actually. Deadline timer for hiring was 5 mins before maintenance. But the traders did not update within those 5 mins. Leaving me unable to do any actions. I could even see which ones were free but couldnt hire them. It was beyond my imagination that the maintenance would ruin the process of hiring guild traders. It makes no sense at all.

And it does not affect everyone equally. People from different countries can log in again at different times. Server online works as a sweep. I logged in instantly after the update. But all guild traders were hired, even the ones that were free before the update. Hardware and inet speed will individually affect loading times aswell.

I gotta buy a new computer, move to Germany(server location) and get a top speed internet provider to win the hiring battle.

And I know I logged on instantly because I sat there spamming login like the nerd I am.

This is unfair and unprofessional @ZOS

fromtesonlineb16_ESO · April 2015

Anything that helps bring this crass economy into disrepute and disuse is fine by me.

LEGENDARYYY · April 2015

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Flaminir wrote: »

We used to prepare for this by being online, looking for a spare trader that hadn't been bid on to be able to provide this service for the members of our guilds (Essential if you a a trade guild)... but by the time change of 1 hour we now can't do this.

So our ability has actually been removed to 'prepare for this weekly event' as you put it.

But as it affects EVERYONE else who is interested in bidding equally there is no disadvantage to anyone.

What you are talking about is it is inconvenient for you.

Kind of like its inconvenient for anyone not in a trading guild who wants to trade.

But we got told "stop QQing and just accept that not everything is going to be easy-mode".

What goes around, comes around.

All The Best

Why do you post when you do not know how the process works?

Sukenlihol · April 2015

Guild Merchant Bid Session always finishes before maintenance (5 minutes ago). And you can see the results before the maintenance too (1 minute ago).

LEGENDARYYY · April 2015

Totomushen wrote: »

Guild Merchant Bid Session always finishes before maintenance (5 minutes ago). And you can see the results before the maintenance too (1 minute ago).

It doesn't finish properly. It puts merchants in a "please wait" state where you cannot hire the free ones until after maintenance is done

Gandrhulf_Harbard · April 2015

LEGENDARYYY wrote: »

Why do you post when you do not know how the process works?

Are you saying it doesn't affect everyone equally?

Please, do explain, I'm willing to learn.

All The Best