Temporary fix until Veteran Ranks are removed.

Newk · April 2015

Hello

I write this mainly in hope that someone from Zenimax will read it, but hope to read everyone's opinion on this as well.

Since the Veteran Ranks are gonna be removed anyway eventually, why not implement this seemingly simple temporary "fix" to the hell that is the Veteran Leveling Grind.

Reduce the XP required for a Veteran Rank to the same as a Champion Level. That is, to 400k, or some other low amount.

Doing this would not mess with the accumulation of champion exp or the current balance of the game. But it would alleviate the tiresome time sink of VR leveling.

I am probably not the first one to state this, but I feel that this problem is the greatest deterrent that will keep the new influx of people and the coming console player base from playing the game once they hit VR1. I have a few friends that are interested in returning to ESO, but the time required for them to get from VR1 to VR14 is always the thing that immediately changes their mind when we talk about them returning.

I understand that removing the Veteran Ranks is not a simple task, because there are many systems that would need changing and re-balancing for this to happen. But changing a number from 1.000.000 to 400.000 seems like a simple matter, and a very simple fix to something I feel is keeping the player base from growing to the size I think it deserves.

Cheers

- @Newk

Olysja · April 2015

i don't see the point. reroll a char grinding from lvl 1 to v14 takes about 4 days. if you wish to do all quests/doungeons/books/contents takes about 14 days. i just rerolled a templar 10 days ago, all cleared to v8 already. why so much complaining about veteran ranks, are easy like hell.and i repeat GRINDING = 400-700kexp/h make your counts.

Newk · April 2015

Olysja wrote: »

i don't see the point. reroll a char grinding from lvl 1 to v14 takes about 4 days. if you wish to do all quests/doungeons/books/contents takes about 14 days. i just rerolled a templar 10 days ago, all cleared to v8 already. why so much complaining about veteran ranks, are easy like hell.and i repeat GRINDING = 400-700kexp/h make your counts.

The point would be that they are removing them anyway and it is currently deterring people from playing once they hit VR ranks. This has been the reason all my RL friends that started with me at launch stopped playing ESO.

They felt they had completed the game when they hit VR, and did not find the thought of having to go through the leveling again twice over, just to get to the real endgame very enticing, so they stopped.

From just having leveled VR1-14 on an alt, I would say that XP rates of 300k-400k is the more likely rate for grinding VR. The good places I know that gives more than that are usually occupied by a lot of people and thus is limited to few people.

I think the main reason that so many people hate it, including me, is that is feels like a pointless time sink. It feels like it's just there to keep me away from endgame a bit longer. Which it is, and Zenimax's intention to remove the Veteran Ranks proves that.

My personal reason is of course that it's keeping my friends from playing the game, and I imagine there is a lot of people that feel the same. So from a business point of view, I think it's a no brainer if it would lure more people to the game.

OrphanHelgen · April 2015

What will happen with my gear? Will vr12 gear still be weaker then vr14?

Newk · April 2015

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

What will happen with my gear? Will vr12 gear still be weaker then vr14?

They have not released any details as to how they will remove the VR ranks or what effect it will have. I remember them having talking about having some other gear progression system, but everything is speculation at this point.

Zhoyzu · April 2015

Olysja wrote: »

i don't see the point. reroll a char grinding from lvl 1 to v14 takes about 4 days. if you wish to do all quests/doungeons/books/contents takes about 14 days. i just rerolled a templar 10 days ago, all cleared to v8 already. why so much complaining about veteran ranks, are easy like hell.and i repeat GRINDING = 400-700kexp/h make your counts.

unless of course you are in school and work a full time job.

Hey could i employ you to level my character for me? you obviously need a job and have excess time.

NewBlacksmurf · April 2015

Completely sounds rational but in essence this requires them to also change or drastically lower the exp gained during the silver n gold quests which should be nightmare for champion levels.
Edit...but if they only changed the exp then it seems nice until you look at conversion and so then it brings out hard to answer questions AND what happens in silver n gold quests when you hit VR 10 in a VR2 zone.

The VR levels in my head just need to convert into the champion system in the same way that cp exp was granted based on prior VR exp. gear and items would follow this too

Newk · April 2015

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Completely sounds rational but in essence this requires them to also change or drastically lower the exp gained during the silver n gold quests which should be nightmare for champion levels.

Can you elaborate on why this would require them to change quest xp ? The way I see it, there is no need to change anything other than the number 1.000.000 ( the amount of XP currently required for 1 Veteran Rank ) to 400.000 or whatever they should deem appropriate.

The whole point of this "fix" would be to lower the VR leveling time drastically until they can implement a proper removal of the whole system.

EDIT: Changed my wording slightly.

NewBlacksmurf · April 2015

Alexander.lanngb16_ESO wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Completely sounds rational but in essence this requires them to also change or drastically lower the exp gained during the silver n gold quests which should be nightmare for champion levels.

Explain to me why this would require them to change quest xp ? The way I see it, there is no need to change anything other than the number 1.000.000 ( the amount of XP currently required for 1 Veteran Rank ) to 400.000 or whatever they should deem appropriate.

The whole point of this "fix" would be to lower the VR leveling time drastically until they can implement a proper removal of the whole system.

Because doing the silver quests that start at VR1 using this lower exp rate would cause a player to be VR6-VR8 prior to completing the Vr2 areas. Don't you think it'll be odd and silly to quest in a VR1 zone at VR8 with all item drops and quest rewards for NPC VR1 or VR2

The removal of VR isn't to remove the VR content.

Newk · April 2015

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Alexander.lanngb16_ESO wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Completely sounds rational but in essence this requires them to also change or drastically lower the exp gained during the silver n gold quests which should be nightmare for champion levels.

Explain to me why this would require them to change quest xp ? The way I see it, there is no need to change anything other than the number 1.000.000 ( the amount of XP currently required for 1 Veteran Rank ) to 400.000 or whatever they should deem appropriate.

The whole point of this "fix" would be to lower the VR leveling time drastically until they can implement a proper removal of the whole system.

Because doing the silver quests that start at VR1 using this lower exp rate would cause a player to be VR6-VR8 prior to completing the Vr2 areas. Don't you think it'll be odd and silly to quest in a VR1 zone at VR8 with all item drops and quest rewards for NPC VR1 or VR2

Nope, I think it would be fantastic. This to me is not really a problem compared to the current VR leveling time.
Besides, quest gives very low XP as it is. It would need to be much lower than 400k if you were to hit VR6-VR8 just by doing the Silver quests :P

Natjur · April 2015

Before they can remove Vet ranks, they need to change all Vet gear to require L50 and X champion point to wear.

I guess they are trying to work out what is a good ratio without lots of people screaming?

If your V14 gear had the same stats it does now, but changed from requiring you to be V14 to being L50 and 140 champion points to wear, would you scream?

NewBlacksmurf · April 2015

Natjur wrote: »

Before they can remove Vet ranks, they need to change all Vet gear to require L50 and X champion point to wear.

I guess they are trying to work out what is a good ratio without lots of people screaming?

If your V14 gear had the same stats it does now, but changed from requiring you to be V14 to being L50 and 140 champion points to wear, would you scream?

I do agree that the VR items lvl req should follow the new champion levels but I don't think anything higher than 70 cp should be the min requirement for VR14

I'm basing this on how cp were given per VR exp...maybe that's wrong but just sharing my opinion.

Mettaricana · April 2015

Olysja wrote: »

i don't see the point. reroll a char grinding from lvl 1 to v14 takes about 4 days. if you wish to do all quests/doungeons/books/contents takes about 14 days. i just rerolled a templar 10 days ago, all cleared to v8 already. why so much complaining about veteran ranks, are easy like hell.and i repeat GRINDING = 400-700kexp/h make your counts.

because some of us have better things to do than sit at a pc for 18 hours a day

Wolfshead · April 2015

Honest after that CP system went live i'm hardly think of VR anymore it can be there for all I care for honest it not annoying anymore for i dont think of as did before CP system i get surprise everytime i get a new VR lvl and honest i have made 3 VR lvl since CP system went live.

Olysja · April 2015

Zhoyzu wrote: »

...

no tnx i'm fine

Mettaricana wrote: »

...

but it's not 18h/day XD as i said. in duo u do 600+ kexp/h (max 800k)... so it's 1+ veteran rank/day in less than 2 hours of gameplay. Exping system is the only one in this game without major bugs and lag, and eso actually missing a real end game. So you just asking to ZoS to remove completly its game xD the veteran rank still exist for a reason, they needs players on many different zones.

Merlin13KAGL · April 2015

I don't understand why threads like this don't just skip the intermediate step and ask for a purchasable max level character from the word "Go."

As a non-VR14, you cannot:

Hope to complete the three Trials.
Enter Vet DSA.
Enter the Cadwell's Gold faction initially (remedied in a handful of hours, at best.)

That's it. You can do everything else. You can enter every delve, dungeon, and zone.

You can still Cyro, just probably not on the front lines. You can do every group dungeon. You can enter and possibly complete trials and regular DSA.

The simple truth of the matter is, that other than changing Vet Ranks to be level 50-63 (which is essentially all they are), they're probably going to end up leaving VR levels alone - there are too many potential unforeseen trickle effects by their removal.

Jitterbug · April 2015

Olysja wrote: »

i don't see the point. reroll a char grinding from lvl 1 to v14 takes about 4 months.

fixed for casuals (like me)

suroh66 · April 2015

Alexander.lanngb16_ESO wrote: »

Olysja wrote: »

i don't see the point. reroll a char grinding from lvl 1 to v14 takes about 4 days. if you wish to do all quests/doungeons/books/contents takes about 14 days. i just rerolled a templar 10 days ago, all cleared to v8 already. why so much complaining about veteran ranks, are easy like hell.and i repeat GRINDING = 400-700kexp/h make your counts.

The point would be that they are removing them anyway and it is currently deterring people from playing once they hit VR ranks. This has been the reason all my RL friends that started with me at launch stopped playing ESO.

They felt they had completed the game when they hit VR, and did not find the thought of having to go through the leveling again twice over, just to get to the real endgame very enticing, so they stopped.

From just having leveled VR1-14 on an alt, I would say that XP rates of 300k-400k is the more likely rate for grinding VR. The good places I know that gives more than that are usually occupied by a lot of people and thus is limited to few people.

I think the main reason that so many people hate it, including me, is that is feels like a pointless time sink. It feels like it's just there to keep me away from endgame a bit longer. Which it is, and Zenimax's intention to remove the Veteran Ranks proves that.

My personal reason is of course that it's keeping my friends from playing the game, and I imagine there is a lot of people that feel the same. So from a business point of view, I think it's a no brainer if it would lure more people to the game.

There is no point to removing them, in fact the only thing removing them would do is further kill the game, I was level 50 two days into live even with the greenshade roll backs, and Ch being bugged as all h***... I vr ranks did not deter me but what will is having them removed.

That would be like getting your head stomped on while you're laying on the ground... They will never remove this because we've already done it. It really is as simple as that.

Olysja · April 2015

Jitterbug wrote: »

..

haha that's not my quote XD btw i know it's rly rly boring but grinding = best way for lvlup, there are players that does 4 mil+ exp each day. Now each player got it's timing and i understand it, but 1hour of grind each day with a friend is always more than 500kexp (duo range is 500-800, while solo is 250-450) so really.. don't get scared about v14. i was going to make a thread some days ago cause i was really mad about this 10% exp from plus, it ruins totally my exping, i will reach v14 without neither start craglorn, and i had to skip 90% of doungeons before lvl 50 cause i had always grey quests, AND 1 year ago this game had real bosses, stronger with more life and more dps,wasn't rly rly hard ok, but now it's like to kill the same mudcrab polymorphed in 100 different tipes of mainstory bosses.

ps: i've 2 irl friends that came to the game with tamriel unlimited aswell, and i explained them how works the exp etc, they are sad as the threadstarter cause they thinks the exp from lvl 50 to v14 is too much, well in real v14 is not like lvl 64 but like lvl 150+ so it's normal that is so much, but with the champ point system you have to grind exp anyway for being competitive, so you all should look at veteran level as something that completing your eso experience, ofc you can't join CoA&Trials with v1, but seriously, are we sure it's the right way to let a new player take place inside an endgame content after 3days of gameplay? Anyway also my irl friends asked me 100 times or so, why this game was so easy, why bosses dies with 2 hits etc.

Gorthax · April 2015

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

I don't understand why threads like this don't just skip the intermediate step and ask for a purchasable max level character from the word "Go."

As a non-VR14, you cannot:
Hope to complete the three Trials.

Enter Vet DSA.

Enter the Cadwell's Gold faction initially (remedied in a handful of hours, at best.)

That's it. You can do everything else. You can enter every delve, dungeon, and zone.

You can still Cyro, just probably not on the front lines. You can do every group dungeon. You can enter and possibly complete trials and regular DSA.

The simple truth of the matter is, that other than changing Vet Ranks to be level 50-63 (which is essentially all they are), they're probably going to end up leaving VR levels alone - there are too many potential unforeseen trickle effects by their removal.

all day this. WoW just started letting people pay them for max level characters....you want to do that then go to WoW lol vet levels are easy as crap. Just like 1-50. People now days dont even KNOW how bad it was pre 1 mil xp per level and they want it LOWER?! play the game or go already lol sorry *shrugs* I am sick of watching ZoS make this game easier and easier all the time for people. I am not an elitist I am a casual player (if we are going by pace wise here) and I managed to hit vr14 no problems. Multiple characters mind you. But I have also been playing since day -5 (early access). Will I level another one to max? Dear god no lol I dont play my other max toons as is. Just the one

Newk · April 2015

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

I don't understand why threads like this don't just skip the intermediate step and ask for a purchasable max level character from the word "Go."

Because they are already removing the Veteran Ranks, I am not asking them to do something they are not already planning on doing. Besides, I would not pay for a max level char, I just don't want to be teased with endgame content but not actually being at endgame like the current VR system is doing.

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

As a non-VR14, you cannot:
Hope to complete the three Trials.

Enter Vet DSA.

Enter the Cadwell's Gold faction initially (remedied in a handful of hours, at best.)

That's it. You can do everything else. You can enter every delve, dungeon, and zone.

You can still Cyro, just probably not on the front lines. You can do every group dungeon. You can enter and possibly complete trials and regular DSA.

And if I want to do trails ?
And if i want to enter Vet DSA?
What the hell would I be doing in a Delve or random Zone ? And the Veteran Dungeons drops lower level gear at lower VR level so there is no point in farming for at it low VR level's. Doing Daily Gold Keys (if you plan on waiting to use them untill VR14) and half assed Cyrodiil play is the only thing you can do at lower VR. There is no point trying to gear up a non VR14 character when you know it will be replaced after the horrendous VR grind. Not to mention the lack of gear options there is untill you get to at least VR12+.

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

The simple truth of the matter is, that other than changing Vet Ranks to be level 50-63 (which is essentially all they are), they're probably going to end up leaving VR levels alone - there are too many potential unforeseen trickle effects by their removal.

They just mentioned in the ESO Stream thingy, which i linked to in the OP, that they are still planning on removing the VR system as they have said since the announced the Champion System. I have no reason to doubt they will, eventually.

simontheriault1b16_ESO · April 2015

Just an idea like that: why not make enlightenment apply to VR leveling too? It will make the process for casuals way less painful. A thing that could help preventing to have vr8s in a vr1 zone just by regular leveling would be to thighten the XP penalty for being overleved. People who wants to just go straight to the point doing the zones main quests wouldn't be overleveled and completionists would get significant XP just from the quests when overleveled.

Newk · April 2015

suroh66 wrote: »

Alexander.lanngb16_ESO wrote: »

Olysja wrote: »

i don't see the point. reroll a char grinding from lvl 1 to v14 takes about 4 days. if you wish to do all quests/doungeons/books/contents takes about 14 days. i just rerolled a templar 10 days ago, all cleared to v8 already. why so much complaining about veteran ranks, are easy like hell.and i repeat GRINDING = 400-700kexp/h make your counts.

The point would be that they are removing them anyway and it is currently deterring people from playing once they hit VR ranks. This has been the reason all my RL friends that started with me at launch stopped playing ESO.

They felt they had completed the game when they hit VR, and did not find the thought of having to go through the leveling again twice over, just to get to the real endgame very enticing, so they stopped.

From just having leveled VR1-14 on an alt, I would say that XP rates of 300k-400k is the more likely rate for grinding VR. The good places I know that gives more than that are usually occupied by a lot of people and thus is limited to few people.

I think the main reason that so many people hate it, including me, is that is feels like a pointless time sink. It feels like it's just there to keep me away from endgame a bit longer. Which it is, and Zenimax's intention to remove the Veteran Ranks proves that.

My personal reason is of course that it's keeping my friends from playing the game, and I imagine there is a lot of people that feel the same. So from a business point of view, I think it's a no brainer if it would lure more people to the game.

There is no point to removing them, in fact the only thing removing them would do is further kill the game, I was level 50 two days into live even with the greenshade roll backs, and Ch being bugged as all h***... I vr ranks did not deter me but what will is having them removed.

That would be like getting your head stomped on while you're laying on the ground... They will never remove this because we've already done it. It really is as simple as that.

Why are you arguing this point?, they have EXPLICITLY stated that they are planning on removing them. I am not asking them to remove the VR ranks, they are already doing it.

Cinder82 · April 2015

.

Newk · April 2015

Cinder82 wrote: »

they are not gonna remove vet 1 to 14 they will just go no further with it after the v14 its cp only simple.

me and a lot of people have more then 3 vr14! we have put many days of work in this if they just flush this trough the drain there will be mass chaos!

also they want to make money soo if they do this no1 will buy stuff because everything is for nothing.

the xp potions are a waste because i can grind meself to 50 in 3 hours and im done. iv got 150cp acount wide so no rush with them.

only people complaining are low level people who dont wanna work for there rank! if they do change it vr14 should be like 150 cp . then they stilll can make lots of money on xp potions!!

also the 10% xp for sub is useless( only reason i sub btw crownshop garbo is crap)

simple removing vet levels will destroy everything! the whole game will be flipped again. and they have to start over again.

people can cry all day on the forum but it will not change a thing! look at it from the bizznizz side they need money.
AND WE ALL WANNA BUY THESE XP POTIONS ILL PAY LOTS FOR THEM ZOS

Don't know why people keep insisting that they wont remove them, I even linked to a very recent source in the OP.

SOURCE: THEY INTENT ON REMOVING THEM <---- LINK

Only people complaining is NOT low level people, I have almost 4 x VR14 characters and this is the change I would want IMMEDIATELY if I could choose something to change about the game, I don't think I know anyone in game that I play with that don't want them removed. I have more alt's that I want to level, and the thought of Veteran Grind is not enticing.

From a business side of things this move would make very much sense. They will not get any money from people if there are no people to play it. The way I see it, the Veteran Grind is deterring more people from playing the game than it will make people quit if they removed it.

To the XP potion point. This move could just as easily backfire on them, there was a lot of Buy-To-Win complaining going on when the XP potion was datamined. But assuming it won't backfire on them, I believe that they have already stated that there will be craftable XP potions, but I don't have a source, so it might be hear-say.

smokes · April 2015

this thread is so full of fail understanding

1. people aren't asking for the Vet ranks to be removed (just the ranks not the content) because they are lazy, they are asking for them to be removed due to the power difference between a level 50 and VR14 which is massive (gear not included)

2. VR14 is pretty much a pre-requisite for not getting absolutely facerolled in pvp, for serious trials and pledges.

3. players want cadwells gold and silver as optional content - something they can do in their own time, when in the mood, for the additional skillpoints, lore, gold etc. not as mandatory content that is required to be completed in order to hit VR10-14 through conventional means. conventional means = questing, delves, dolmens - not grinding.

4. removing VR14 is not going to be converted to level 64 - that accomplishes nothing. it's more likely that the power gain between VR1-14 (numerical values) will be attributed to the new 50+ gearing system, so all those in VR14 will have equivalent gear.

5. the champion system is the replacement for the veteran system but is likely to close the massive power gap in the VR1-14 ranks. so when naked, a VR14 without any champion points spent will be the same power level as a fresh, naked, level 50. champion points and gear will make up the power difference.

what players actually want, is a choice of gameplay options after defeating molag'bal, whereas currently the choice is quest, grind or die doing anything you might dare to attempt.

i'm VR12 and i want the vet ranks removed and the game rebalanced. level 50 was originally the endgame cap with craglorn intended to rraise the VR cap to 2 for lower craglorn and then VR4 for upper craglorn.

the late implementation of cadwells meant that VR1-10 was added far earlier than ever anticipated. whilst this would be fine if everybody levelled through conventional means, within 2 days of launch, there was a handful of players who had grinded to VR10 and dominated pvp. then with craglorn, they magically hit VR14 and you HAD to be VR14 to stand a chance in pvp.

whilst balance between classes, specs and set bonuses played it's part, exploits (both in levelling and playstyle) also exacerbated the situation. which kind of hid the original problem, which was the rushed implementation of the VR1-10 cadwell zones that sent game balance spiralling out of control.

honestly, if the game hadn't gone B2P i'd still be waiting for VR ranks to be removed before coming back.

but ultimately, if the whole VR1-10 fiasco hadn't ensued from the get go, ESO would still be using a subscription payment model. there's been forum threads describing the failure of vet ranks since beta - BETA! this is not a new complaint and it most certainly isn't one of laziness, it's all about options at endgame (which should start when you kill molag'bal, not after finishing cadwells gold and silver).

most of the threads regarding the issue just want a full explanation of how ZoS plans to convert VR to CP and how that impacts all the other aspects of the game.

i can appreciate many people have different ways of playing this game and i have no intentions of removing any of those options from you - but it's amazing how many people are so utterly ignorant of the other players who also play this game and expect them to simply suck it up and grind it out like some bonkers korean grind mmo, when the majority of mmoRPG players play the game for the RPG elements, not the grind.

Merlin13KAGL · April 2015

Alexander.lanngb16_ESO wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

I don't understand why threads like this don't just skip the intermediate step and ask for a purchasable max level character from the word "Go."

Because they are already removing the Veteran Ranks, I am not asking them to do something they are not already planning on doing. Besides, I would not pay for a max level char, I just don't want to be teased with endgame content but not actually being at endgame like the current VR system is doing.

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

As a non-VR14, you cannot:
Hope to complete the three Trials.

Enter Vet DSA.

Enter the Cadwell's Gold faction initially (remedied in a handful of hours, at best.)

That's it. You can do everything else. You can enter every delve, dungeon, and zone.

You can still Cyro, just probably not on the front lines. You can do every group dungeon. You can enter and possibly complete trials and regular DSA.

And if I want to do trails ?
And if i want to enter Vet DSA?
What the hell would I be doing in a Delve or random Zone ? And the Veteran Dungeons drops lower level gear at lower VR level so there is no point in farming for at it low VR level's. Doing Daily Gold Keys (if you plan on waiting to use them untill VR14) and half assed Cyrodiil play is the only thing you can do at lower VR. There is no point trying to gear up a non VR14 character when you know it will be replaced after the horrendous VR grind. Not to mention the lack of gear options there is untill you get to at least VR12+.

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

The simple truth of the matter is, that other than changing Vet Ranks to be level 50-63 (which is essentially all they are), they're probably going to end up leaving VR levels alone - there are too many potential unforeseen trickle effects by their removal.

They just mentioned in the ESO Stream thingy, which i linked to in the OP, that they are still planning on removing the VR system as they have said since the announced the Champion System. I have no reason to doubt they will, eventually.

Then level your character like everyone else had to.

If you want a viable character, then make your character viable. Quit asking ZoS to do it for you.

Alexander.lanngb16_ESO wrote: »

Why are you arguing this point?, they have EXPLICITLY stated that they are planning on removing them. I am not asking them to remove the VR ranks, they are already doing it.

RIght, they also EXPLICITLY stated they were

Not increasing max level
Not increasing max level (again)
Not introducing a cash shop
Not changing from a subscription based model to a F2P or B2P model.

So your temporary fix is that you need to earn some XP's or wait for them to keep their word.

In short, you want to do end game/max level content without taking the time to become max level!?

What happens first time you enter DSA? You realize it's 10 whole rounds, but you don't want to do the first 9, so ZoS should just let you go straight to the Boss Fight?

If VR's go away, there are two ways they can do it, they either crank you up, or the crank >VR1's down. If they do the latter, they have no choice but to crank down the difficulty level more than they already have.

It's not ZoS's nor anyone else fault you don't want to do any of the other content they have provided.

Level your character or take a seat.

Newk · April 2015

smokes wrote: »

this thread is so full of fail understanding

1. people aren't asking for the Vet ranks to be removed (just the ranks not the content) because they are lazy, they are asking for them to be removed due to the power difference between a level 50 and VR14 which is massive (gear not included)

2. VR14 is pretty much a pre-requisite for not getting absolutely facerolled in pvp, for serious trials and pledges.

3. players want cadwells gold and silver as optional content - something they can do in their own time, when in the mood, for the additional skillpoints, lore, gold etc. not as mandatory content that is required to be completed in order to hit VR10-14 through conventional means. conventional means = questing, delves, dolmens - not grinding.

4. removing VR14 is not going to be converted to level 64 - that accomplishes nothing. it's more likely that the power gain between VR1-14 (numerical values) will be attributed to the new 50+ gearing system, so all those in VR14 will have equivalent gear.

5. the champion system is the replacement for the veteran system but is likely to close the massive power gap in the VR1-14 ranks. so when naked, a VR14 without any champion points spent will be the same power level as a fresh, naked, level 50. champion points and gear will make up the power difference.

what players actually want, is a choice of gameplay options after defeating molag'bal, whereas currently the choice is quest, grind or die doing anything you might dare to attempt.

i'm VR12 and i want the vet ranks removed and the game rebalanced. level 50 was originally the endgame cap with craglorn intended to rraise the VR cap to 2 for lower craglorn and then VR4 for upper craglorn.

the late implementation of cadwells meant that VR1-10 was added far earlier than ever anticipated. whilst this would be fine if everybody levelled through conventional means, within 2 days of launch, there was a handful of players who had grinded to VR10 and dominated pvp. then with craglorn, they magically hit VR14 and you HAD to be VR14 to stand a chance in pvp.

whilst balance between classes, specs and set bonuses played it's part, exploits (both in levelling and playstyle) also exacerbated the situation. which kind of hid the original problem, which was the rushed implementation of the VR1-10 cadwell zones that sent game balance spiralling out of control.

honestly, if the game hadn't gone B2P i'd still be waiting for VR ranks to be removed before coming back.

but ultimately, if the whole VR1-10 fiasco hadn't ensued from the get go, ESO would still be using a subscription payment model. there's been forum threads describing the failure of vet ranks since beta - BETA! this is not a new complaint and it most certainly isn't one of laziness, it's all about options at endgame (which should start when you kill molag'bal, not after finishing cadwells gold and silver).

most of the threads regarding the issue just want a full explanation of how ZoS plans to convert VR to CP and how that impacts all the other aspects of the game.

i can appreciate many people have different ways of playing this game and i have no intentions of removing any of those options from you - but it's amazing how many people are so utterly ignorant of the other players who also play this game and expect them to simply suck it up and grind it out like some bonkers korean grind mmo, when the majority of mmoRPG players play the game for the RPG elements, not the grind.

Very good reply! Could not agree more on that summation of the situation

whvice · April 2015

lovely debate and info over here.

given that:
1) both sides are presenting factual information and solid supporting material
2) despite being genuine, both sources of information contradict each other

we can only conclude that ESO have either the most clueless developers or simply the most amusing (read: "fail") conmen out there

idk · April 2015

Besides comments like that from Merlin who includes incorrect information. The OP suggestion may not be favorable to the upcoming elimination of veteran ranks.

1. They haven't chosen what to replace vet ranks with. It could be V14 becomes lvl 64.
2. They have already nerfed vet leveling. Going through leveling my 4th vet character I find it faster than before. Granted it's a grind.

Newk · April 2015

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Alexander.lanngb16_ESO wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

I don't understand why threads like this don't just skip the intermediate step and ask for a purchasable max level character from the word "Go."

Because they are already removing the Veteran Ranks, I am not asking them to do something they are not already planning on doing. Besides, I would not pay for a max level char, I just don't want to be teased with endgame content but not actually being at endgame like the current VR system is doing.

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

As a non-VR14, you cannot:
Hope to complete the three Trials.

Enter Vet DSA.

Enter the Cadwell's Gold faction initially (remedied in a handful of hours, at best.)

That's it. You can do everything else. You can enter every delve, dungeon, and zone.

You can still Cyro, just probably not on the front lines. You can do every group dungeon. You can enter and possibly complete trials and regular DSA.

And if I want to do trails ?
And if i want to enter Vet DSA?
What the hell would I be doing in a Delve or random Zone ? And the Veteran Dungeons drops lower level gear at lower VR level so there is no point in farming for at it low VR level's. Doing Daily Gold Keys (if you plan on waiting to use them untill VR14) and half assed Cyrodiil play is the only thing you can do at lower VR. There is no point trying to gear up a non VR14 character when you know it will be replaced after the horrendous VR grind. Not to mention the lack of gear options there is untill you get to at least VR12+.

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

The simple truth of the matter is, that other than changing Vet Ranks to be level 50-63 (which is essentially all they are), they're probably going to end up leaving VR levels alone - there are too many potential unforeseen trickle effects by their removal.

They just mentioned in the ESO Stream thingy, which i linked to in the OP, that they are still planning on removing the VR system as they have said since the announced the Champion System. I have no reason to doubt they will, eventually.

Then level your character like everyone else had to.

If you want a viable character, then make your character viable. Quit asking ZoS to do it for you.

Alexander.lanngb16_ESO wrote: »

Why are you arguing this point?, they have EXPLICITLY stated that they are planning on removing them. I am not asking them to remove the VR ranks, they are already doing it.

RIght, they also EXPLICITLY stated they were
Not increasing max level

Not increasing max level (again)

Not introducing a cash shop

Not changing from a subscription based model to a F2P or B2P model.

So your temporary fix is that you need to earn some XP's or wait for them to keep their word.

In short, you want to do end game/max level content without taking the time to become max level!?

What happens first time you enter DSA? You realize it's 10 whole rounds, but you don't want to do the first 9, so ZoS should just let you go straight to the Boss Fight?

If VR's go away, there are two ways they can do it, they either crank you up, or the crank >VR1's down. If they do the latter, they have no choice but to crank down the difficulty level more than they already have.

It's not ZoS's nor anyone else fault you don't want to do any of the other content they have provided.

Level your character or take a seat.

I have already done ALL the questing content on my main, and I took my sweet time with a 30+ days /played when I was done.

I have almost 4 x VR14 Characters, so the problem is not that I won't level. I do because I have to. My main worry is that it is continuing to hurt the player base by deterring less enthusiastic people from playing the game. And the more important reason for me personally is that it is keeping my friends that would otherwise want to play the game from playing.

Having done that *** grind almost 4 times now I can only imagine how a Casual player's with very little time feel about it, if they just want to get to end game.

For an excellent summation on why VR should never have been implemented in the first place and why they need to be removed, check out smokes reply

I honestly don't want to argue whether or not they will actually remove the system or how they plan to do, the only thing I can say here is that they keep saying it's gonna happen, so that's what I will assume.

I think it's a bad case to compare leveling content to endgame content when we are talking about an MMO. The Endgame content is THE reason most people play MMO's, not the leveling content, which is something most people just want to get over with.