The Serpent Magicka Bomb mechanic (please post opinions)

DeathDealer19 · April 2015

Hello everyone,

Recently me and my guild (We Wipe On Trash) have begun Hard Mode Serpent progression. We have speed runs down and this is the only thing left for us to do. Anyhow, during the Serpent fight normal and HM everyone who has done the fight knows of the pesky blue totems and the magicka bomb they place on random players. This magicka bomb requires you to "dump" all of your magicka to a certain % before it expires or you detonate. We know how it works and have all come up with strats for mitigating it. But our recent changes in stats and the addition of CP have made this mechanic a nightmare. Myself for instance, I am a Templar healer and with my healing gear on and CP spent, I have nearly 35000 magicka. My breath of life heal costs around 2000 magicka. This is the spammable spell that healers tend to use to dump magicka quickly but it simply doesn't work anymore. If I get the magicka bomb with over 80% of my magicka, im screwed. I simply cant spam 15+ times before it detonates. Theres been many occasions where I get to like 15-10% magicka and still die to it. I have discovered a work around for myself. I put the NON EFFECIENT purge spell on one of my bars and luckily it costs nearly 6k magicka and is instant cast. But this isn't available to every player if they don't pvp. While this method does work for me and people who have it available, I don't think we should have to waste a slot on our already small skill bar simply to get around a mechanic. I feel like this mechanic needs to be looked at and adjusted since magicka builds now try to get all the magicka they can and with CP in the picture, magicka pools are MUCH higher and our costs are much lower.

Another thing I tried... I typically heal with Seducer 5pc, Engine Guardian 2pc (1 Heavy, 1 Light), Healer 3pc, and a Master Resto Staff..... I always change my helm to healer because if I get a magicka dwemer during the magicka bomb (which happens a lot) im screwed. But last night I swapped out my helm and also 4 of my seducer armor to Martial Knowledge for Spell Power and to increase my magicka cost and hurt my magicka regen. Even with those changes, I could not dump magicka quick enough without purge. Me and another top healer in our guild/faction were discussing how were 2nd guessing spending our CP in magicka cost reduction and magicka regen because of this one fight and one mechanic.

I know my posts are long and im sorry but id like some other peoples opinions and WOULD LOVE a ZOS response or opinion. Im only talking about the Magicka Bomb during the Serpent Fight. Please add your opinions and lets see if we can get ZOS to rework this mechanic a bit. Its really making HM progression difficult. At least until some new content comes out and we don't need to waste time in SO any longer.

pppontus · April 2015

Siege Shield is a good magicka dump and can be unlocked in a few minutes of PvP

DeathDealer19 · April 2015

pppontus wrote: »

Siege Shield is a good magicka dump and can be unlocked in a few minutes of PvP

ive thought of this too and went with purge due to it having almost no cast time or animation. But there are people who haven't pvp'd at all and don't want to. And honestly we shouldn't have to slot something useless just to dump magicka. But thanks this is indeed a good magicka dump

Mantic0r3 · April 2015

I totally agree with OP, this mechanic drasticly increased in effectiveness (read killing people) since 1.6 previously you would have a chance even when you detonate with a low % of your magicka, lets say up to 30% for magicka users, now you instantly die no matter how low your magicka (above the treshold where the debuff is dispelled). I think they made a mistake in the formular for the new 1.6 values and should rework this.

This debuff SHOULD kill anyone not aware that he/she got the debuff or who is too slow to react, it should not kill people actively trying to counter it.

DeathDealer19 · April 2015

Mantic0r3 wrote: »

I totally agree with OP, this mechanic drasticly increased in effectiveness (read killing people) since 1.6 previously you would have a chance even when you detonate with a low % of your magicka, lets say up to 30% for magicka users, now you instantly die no matter how low your magicka (above the treshold where the debuff is dispelled). I think they made a mistake in the formular for the new 1.6 values and should rework this.

This debuff SHOULD kill anyone not aware that he/she got the debuff or who is too slow to react, it should not kill people actively trying to counter it.

Yeah im still taking 80k dmg from the detonation even getting down to like 12% magicka. With a 34000 magicka pool, I simply have nothing I can spam to get below 10% or whatever the thresh hold is. So ive had to settle for wasting a skill slot on purge as a work around.

ThisOnePosts · April 2015

This is actually a silly, lazy mechanic. I agree with you OP, it should be looked at (and hopefully changed to something that makes sense).

DeathDealer19 · April 2015

ViciousWayz wrote: »

This is actually a silly, lazy mechanic. I agree with you OP, it should be looked at (and hopefully changed to something that makes sense).

The mechanic itself isn't bad I mean its a nice added element to make the boss fight interesting and keep people on their toes. But with out stats scaling and reduction plus regen being so high now, the mechanic needs to be adjusted accordingly. Its not feasible to make the threshold for this detonation 10% magicka when I simply have too much magicka regen and cost reduction to even get to 10% lol.

ThisOnePosts · April 2015

DeathDealer19 wrote: »

ViciousWayz wrote: »

This is actually a silly, lazy mechanic. I agree with you OP, it should be looked at (and hopefully changed to something that makes sense).

The mechanic itself isn't bad I mean its a nice added element to make the boss fight interesting and keep people on their toes. But with out stats scaling and reduction plus regen being so high now, the mechanic needs to be adjusted accordingly. Its not feasible to make the threshold for this detonation 10% magicka when I simply have too much magicka regen and cost reduction to even get to 10% lol.

I've played many MMOs, have done raids, dungeons, etc.... this is not a good boss mechanic. It is very simple, yet it forces you to play the game how you DON'T want, therefore I feel it is a lazy mechanic. I am all for a good challenge, this is not a good challenge whatsoever.

Artemiisia · April 2015

change build when u get to the serpent, some of our healers that wear 5 piece warlock, removes one.

DeathDealer19 · April 2015

Artemiisia wrote: »

change build when u get to the serpent, some of our healers that wear 5 piece warlock, removes one.

this doesn't work any more lol. If you read my entire post you would see I have changed my gear when I get there. Hell ive even put on 3 random heavy pieces in my bag and still had too much magicka to burn. Simply changing one item doesn't fix anything any more. your healer changes one piece so he/she doesn't get the magicka proc randomly

Suru · April 2015

I do believe purge is the level 2 Alliance war skill and you get it by doing the training missions, not entirely sure tho. Siege Shield is also 2k more magika than Cleanse, nonetheless magika debuff should get a looking at either way unless this is how they want us to use ravage magika potions!

DeathDealer19 · April 2015

Suru wrote: »

I do believe purge is the level 2 Alliance war skill and you get it by doing the training missions, not entirely sure tho. Siege Shield is also 2k more magika than Cleanse, nonetheless magika debuff should get a looking at either way unless this is how they want us to use ravage magika potions!

Hey Suru! Yeah siege shield and purge don't take long to get but I really don't feel like they have any place in this fight. I shouldn't have to use those spells during a pretty intense fight on Hard Mode. I look pretty silly spamming purge during the world shaper

ThisOnePosts · April 2015

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^As I said, this fight needs to be adjusted. Right now it is definitely doable, but makes very little sense.

byrom101b16_ESO · April 2015

There should not be a mechanic in the game which encourages you to wear *** gear, take bad skills onto your bar or not take CPs making you more resource efficient.

It's just dumb as hell.

The bomb should be changed.

Maybe give it a counter, and each magicka skill used lowers the counter...

Phinix1 · April 2015

ViciousWayz wrote: »

I've played many MMOs, have done raids, dungeons, etc.... this is not a good boss mechanic.

silentgecko · April 2015

I absolutely sign.

This Boss Mechanic is senseless how it works actually.
The other Problem is: Most of the time you don't even notive it. You Char should glow blue, and your screen should have a blue border. But most of the time you don't see it at all.

https://youtube.com/watch?t=121&v=ULkX4KqSWQk
You can see it at 32:40. I didn't see the Blue Border, i didn't noticed anything about it untill i got exploded (for 107k MDG, jeah).

A Suggestion:
Make it a Dot. You have to use like 35% of your max. Magicka in like 20 Seconds. While this is on your Char, you will loose the Amount of Life that you spent on Magicka. If you can't spent your 35% you will get Extra dmg for 35% of your max Magicka. If you can handle it, get back the 35% Magicka.

I think others will have other Ideas how to make this Boss Spell more like a Boss Mechanic instead of random luck or unluck.

p.s.
If you have Elemental Drain on Serpent, it is impossible with normal Skill-Rota to get down your Magicka
p.p.s.
sry for bad english, i'm german

Mantic0r3 · April 2015

I think a good solution would be that you have to use x% of your magicka, lets assume 90%

Right now if i have a pool of 30k magicka i need to get to around 3k magicka to dispell the cast which is almost impossible with usefull skills.

With this change I would need to use 27k magicka during the debuff, it doesnt matter if I end up with 3k or 10k or even 30k in the end as long as I used enough magicka.

Aenlir · April 2015

Sanctum was nerfed too much already when 1.6 came. yes the mana bombs did get slightly harder to deal with, but the only thing I think they should change is to bring back the blue around your screen. Doing hard mode serpent I literally have maybe only once or twice seen a healer die to mana bombs, it's always just the dps who aren't paying attention. If you have a mana dump you won't die to it unless you dont see it. This being said I would understand if it didn't one shot you for not draining your mana, that way if you get close you would survive but not get the extra magicka return.

Rune_Relic · April 2015

Perhaps spec more into stamina instead ?
Do you actually need max magicka of that magnitude other than being seriously OP.
Perhaps that is the whole point of the mechanic no ?

Can you not mitigate the extra damage regardless ?

Observant · April 2015

Can a healer DM me their character makeup?

How can you get 30k+ Magicka and still survive S.O? How much health do you guys have?

Jaerlach · April 2015

I think you should ditch seducer.

The key to magicka Bomb is always to keep your magicka low. Sustain spec is imo not that good now anyway and I would move away towards more spell damage and bigger heals.

Onicx · April 2015

I run seducer and healers habit with 30k magic and 24k health with buffs. I keep my mana at around 40% the whole fight and it has been working out fine. With being Breton and all cost reduction on there's no way I could dump my magic fast enough if I had a full mana bar.

mfrd36nrb18_ESO · April 2015

Observant wrote: »

Can a healer DM me their character makeup?

How can you get 30k magicka and still survive S.O? How much health do you guys have?

Seducer/healer all magicka enchant, if you use Valkin Skoria light helm you will have 30k magicka and 18k health as an Imperial healer, If you use the heavy one you get 20k health and a little lower magicka.

My key on the serpent is to dump my magicka at first to the top bottom and work from there, then when the mana bomb comes it's easy to stay low. But you have to be an experienced healer of course.

omfgitsbatman · April 2015

Observant wrote: »

Can a healer DM me their character makeup?

How can you get 30k+ Magicka and still survive S.O? How much health do you guys have?

I personally have 31k magika 20k health without emperor buff, and I'm Argonian, so I have no racial magika bonuses. I wear 5 pc healers habit and 5 pc seducer with master resto staff. Since it seems thornblade is now decently reliable as a buff server, I could probably push that to 33k ish magika without racial passives to increase it. 20k health is more than enough to survive S.O.

Attorneyatlawl · April 2015

DeathDealer19 wrote: »

Hello everyone,

Recently me and my guild (We Wipe On Trash) have begun Hard Mode Serpent progression. We have speed runs down and this is the only thing left for us to do. Anyhow, during the Serpent fight normal and HM everyone who has done the fight knows of the pesky blue totems and the magicka bomb they place on random players. This magicka bomb requires you to "dump" all of your magicka to a certain % before it expires or you detonate. We know how it works and have all come up with strats for mitigating it. But our recent changes in stats and the addition of CP have made this mechanic a nightmare.
Myself for instance, I am a Templar healer and with my healing gear on and CP spent, I have nearly 35000 magicka. My breath of life heal costs around 2000 magicka. This is the spammable spell that healers tend to use to dump magicka quickly but it simply doesn't work anymore. If I get the magicka bomb with over 80% of my magicka, im screwed. I simply cant spam 15+ times before it detonates. Theres been many occasions where I get to like 15-10% magicka and still die to it. I have discovered a work around for myself. I put the NON EFFECIENT purge spell on one of my bars and luckily it costs nearly 6k magicka and is instant cast. But this isn't available to every player if they don't pvp. While this method does work for me and people who have it available, I don't think we should have to waste a slot on our already small skill bar simply to get around a mechanic. I feel like this mechanic needs to be looked at and adjusted since magicka builds now try to get all the magicka they can and with CP in the picture, magicka pools are MUCH higher and our costs are much lower.

Another thing I tried... I typically heal with Seducer 5pc, Engine Guardian 2pc (1 Heavy, 1 Light), Healer 3pc, and a Master Resto Staff..... I always change my helm to healer because if I get a magicka dwemer during the magicka bomb (which happens a lot) im screwed. But last night I swapped out my helm and also 4 of my seducer armor to Martial Knowledge for Spell Power and to increase my magicka cost and hurt my magicka regen. Even with those changes, I could not dump magicka quick enough without purge. Me and another top healer in our guild/faction were discussing how were 2nd guessing spending our CP in magicka cost reduction and magicka regen because of this one fight and one mechanic.

I know my posts are long and im sorry but id like some other peoples opinions and WOULD LOVE a ZOS response or opinion. Im only talking about the Magicka Bomb during the Serpent Fight. Please add your opinions and lets see if we can get ZOS to rework this mechanic a bit. Its really making HM progression difficult. At least until some new content comes out and we don't need to waste time in SO any longer.

Definitely a problem since 1.6 there... even on my stamina DK dps'ing it is tough sometimes to keep the magicka low enough... my go-to strategy for that is just slotting & spamming igneous weapons, but if I get a regen tick and it's not enough to cast again or it hits right as the timer's running out, I've died from it. With a ~10k magicka pool in that setup and ~850 regen every 2 seconds in combat, it can be pretty hairy using a ~2700 magicka (off the top of my head, at least) cost spell to do this with. Thumbs up for a well-written post.

Alcast · April 2015

fight at like 30% of your magicka and then no problemo + purge

timidobserver · April 2015

I burn down to 50% before we even engage the serpent.

Kildayen · April 2015

Just keep your magicka under 50% for the entire fight. Part of the mechanic of this fight requires you to work on keeping your magicka low. It's an added puzzle piece. If it is too hard, keep practicing until you get it down. That's it. No reason to nerf it. No offense to the OP and the people who agree with him/her, but I am so tired of seeing people complain over how hard certain things are in the game. Practice and adapt. Practice and adapt.

Davenaro · April 2015

I find the best way as other people have suggested is to instead of maintaining mana around 50-100%, Just maintain in a lower percentage. Ele Drain Is the best for this if you are a caster imo.

DeathDealer19 · April 2015

Kildayen wrote: »

Just keep your magicka under 50% for the entire fight. Part of the mechanic of this fight requires you to work on keeping your magicka low. It's an added puzzle piece. If it is too hard, keep practicing until you get it down. That's it. No reason to nerf it. No offense to the OP and the people who agree with him/her, but I am so tired of seeing people complain over how hard certain things are in the game. Practice and adapt. Practice and adapt.

Its not that its hard. I dont complain over hard. Were working on hard mode and have done speed runs. Obviously I know about the mechanic. I simply cant keep my magicka around 50% like I used to be able to. Cp passives and my massive magicka pool make that not possible to keep my magicka at a certain level while actually healing my guild. If I get a bomb at 100% magicka I need to breath of life 16 times to get under 10%. That's not possible in the time alotted. Again in saying it needs to be looked at and re worked since our magicka pools and resources are Vastly different now

jluceyub17_ESO · April 2015

DeathDealer19 wrote: »

Kildayen wrote: »

Just keep your magicka under 50% for the entire fight. Part of the mechanic of this fight requires you to work on keeping your magicka low. It's an added puzzle piece. If it is too hard, keep practicing until you get it down. That's it. No reason to nerf it. No offense to the OP and the people who agree with him/her, but I am so tired of seeing people complain over how hard certain things are in the game. Practice and adapt. Practice and adapt.

Its not that its hard. I dont complain over hard. Were working on hard mode and have done speed runs. Obviously I know about the mechanic. I simply cant keep my magicka around 50% like I used to be able to. Cp passives and my massive magicka pool make that not possible to keep my magicka at a certain level while actually healing my guild. If I get a bomb at 100% magicka I need to breath of life 16 times to get under 10%. That's not possible in the time alotted. Again in saying it needs to be looked at and re worked since our magicka pools and resources are Vastly different now

^That's your problem, know the mechanic, adjust for it, and never let magicka be over 60%. If your cost reduction and magicka regen are as buffed as you claim, you won't have a problem healing with only half your normal pool.