Get rid of healing springs already.
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Psilent✭✭✭✭✭@ZoS after all the failed attempts to fix the lag and spread out the blob spammers... can we just fix the real problem already and get rid of healing springs and group damage shields.
There is enough self healing in the game combined with templar heals to completely get rid of healing spings... turn it into a group healing buff... say 30% more healing received for 20 secs... this way it still acts as a heal in the sense all other heals are buffed and it doesn't need to be spammed. I think most would agree this is the single most detrimental cause of lag when in bigger fights... it forces ppl to group up very tight all the while spamming other abilities.
Next: change the meteor animation to something simple.... i think most would also agree as soon as the meteor spams start ot has almost the same effect on lag. I don't think a single person is going to say i like the animation more than the lag it produces... the simple little blue circle around you with a smaller simple animation would suffice.. and lastly the sound effects that come with meteor i also feel contribe to the lag... but thats just my own opinion.
This has been a known problem forever now... its time to do something about it other than let your player base point fingers at eachother yelling exploit.
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Sorry Galalin, but I do not agree with you on this one at all.
Zenimax is on the right path with a few changes they have added over the last two weeks. Had some very fun non-lag fights outside Bruma yesterday with a group of 20 EP and a DC group of about 20 to 25. No lag, great fun. We literally fought back and forth over that Bruma dolmen for about half an hour; instead of waiting for all of DC to show up at Dragonclaw. Healing springs was used during that fight, even spammed, and my ping wasn't a concern.
Major lag occurs when pretty much the whole population is in one location. The last few weeks I've only had game destroying lag when Zazeer and Jean Luc Picard were being dethroned on Chillrend and Azura's Star. Due to this discovery I propose the following:
Disable Emperor until the lag is solved; there will be no crowning emperor or dethroning emperor lag. Most players would rather have no lag than an Emperor.
Edited by Psilent on April 12, 2015 5:54PM1 -
ArvenAldmeri✭✭✭✭✭This post is just a big joke, right? Removing healing springs? And basically you are saying that all classes can self heal? Yeah, sure... What a coincidence that this comes from someone who is using class that has so OP self heal abilities. Yes, I said it, DKs has OP self heals. (not just self heals are OP at DK anyway)
Removing healing springs would ruin PVE healers that are not templars (though even templars now have a huge nerf on heals and their healing is not that strong anymore). Me as a sorcerer I must say, my self heal is not enough to keep me alive in group dungeons. The only way to heal myself or to support healer in group for me is to use healing springs. You are DK, you dont know that. You were never depandant on anyones healing. I know that DKs dont need a healer. I saw that myself many times in group dungeons or even trials where DK can solo a boss.
Also, you are mentioning vigor. What a stupid argument. Again, you are not even thinking about PVE players. Not at all. Of course, who cares about PVE when being PVP player, right?
Least but not last, I would like you to name those AOE healing that you are talking about. Because there is NOT many of them.
And to complete my post, what is wrong on NB playing as a healer? Everyone can play as he wants, no one should dictate to anyone "You are NB, you are supposed to be sneaking in PVP and shoot people from sneak with bow."
I say big NO! for removing healing springs.Magicka sorcerer from start until the end. Always. Through the good times and the bad, even now when its probably saddest PvE dps it has ever been.
Even as an owner of one radiant apex mounts I am against radiant apex mounts and anything thats not obtainable by direct purchase.2 -
DeLindsay✭✭✭✭✭
✭
I'm gonna let you in on a little secret, NB Healers (post 1.6) are within 1-5% as strong as Templar Healers in PvE and prior to 1.6 were within ~10% as strong. I gotta laugh at your sheer ignorance about Healing Springs. NO Class could properly Heal in ESO without in in PvE, not even Templars. Why don't you ask any Raiding Guild's main Templar Healers for Trials exactly what ability they spam when all 12 are stacked on any boss. I'll give you a hint, it's not BoL lmao. And the fact that you think NB's can't be Healers just further shows you have no concept of how this game works, further making this post completely worthless.Hi, NB PvE Healer here and my response is HELL NO! ZoS indeed needs to fix the lag not remove viable abilities for PvE to "fix" Cyrodiil.
Idk here but that whole response just doesn't seem to sit right... since when in any game has a NB been a healing class... now i get its possible in ESO but did you seriously roll a NB to heal? This is prob a discussion for another thread and you have a very valid point no matter my opinion of a healing NB.... but if your are relying solely on healing springs to be a healer idk what to say... the whole point of changing healing springs into a healing buff is to increase the effects of other forms of healing... and therefore balancing out the loss with the gains from the buff. Im not sure if you missed that part and are just focusing on the loss aspect
^ This is a VERY valid complaint and ZoS should be looking into that, as well as doing damage through walls, rocks, trees, etc like can be done now.cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »Healing through walls needs to be fixed, heals should be Los only.3 -
Galalin✭✭✭✭✭Again i know ppl don't like chage and im seeing alot of just looking at the removal of healing springs and not the fact that a 30% bonus to healing is a huge buff... this is a suggestion and i would much rather see some other suggestions rather than a rant post as it does nothing to help the situation.
Possibly change healing springs to apply a 20sec tick heal instead with a slight cost increase... I'm looking at ways to reduce the spamming of this ability not screw classes or builds over.
For those of you that took the time to add input thank you...
Those that just scream about killing the game and add no value to finding solutions to the problems i really don't give 2 *** what you cry or think about it because they are the same ppl that cry about everything in every thread and no matter what is suggested they will continue to cry about the problems or potential solutuons.
DK SCRUB OUTEdited by Galalin on April 12, 2015 9:09PM0 -
Galalin✭✭✭✭✭
I'm gonna let you in on a little secret, NB Healers (post 1.6) are within 1-5% as strong as Templar Healers in PvE and prior to 1.6 were within ~10% as strong. I gotta laugh at your sheer ignorance about Healing Springs. NO Class could properly Heal in ESO without in in PvE, not even Templars. Why don't you ask any Raiding Guild's main Templar Healers for Trials exactly what ability they spam when all 12 are stacked on any boss. I'll give you a hint, it's not BoL lmao. And the fact that you think NB's can't be Healers just further shows you have no concept of how this game works, further making this post completely worthless.Hi, NB PvE Healer here and my response is HELL NO! ZoS indeed needs to fix the lag not remove viable abilities for PvE to "fix" Cyrodiil.
Idk here but that whole response just doesn't seem to sit right... since when in any game has a NB been a healing class... now i get its possible in ESO but did you seriously roll a NB to heal? This is prob a discussion for another thread and you have a very valid point no matter my opinion of a healing NB.... but if your are relying solely on healing springs to be a healer idk what to say... the whole point of changing healing springs into a healing buff is to increase the effects of other forms of healing... and therefore balancing out the loss with the gains from the buff. Im not sure if you missed that part and are just focusing on the loss aspect
^ This is a VERY valid complaint and ZoS should be looking into that, as well as doing damage through walls, rocks, trees, etc like can be done now.cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »Healing through walls needs to be fixed, heals should be Los only.
And again here we go just looking at the removal and no possible solutions.... nuff said
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Galalin✭✭✭✭✭ArvenAldmeri wrote: »This post is just a big joke, right? Removing healing springs? And basically you are saying that all classes can self heal? Yeah, sure... What a coincidence that this comes from someone who is using class that has so OP self heal abilities. Yes, I said it, DKs has OP self heals. (not just self heals are OP at DK anyway)
Removing healing springs would ruin PVE healers that are not templars (though even templars now have a huge nerf on heals and their healing is not that strong anymore). Me as a sorcerer I must say, my self heal is not enough to keep me alive in group dungeons. The only way to heal myself or to support healer in group for me is to use healing springs. You are DK, you dont know that. You were never depandant on anyones healing. I know that DKs dont need a healer. I saw that myself many times in group dungeons or even trials where DK can solo a boss.
Also, you are mentioning vigor. What a stupid argument. Again, you are not even thinking about PVE players. Not at all. Of course, who cares about PVE when being PVP player, right?
Least but not last, I would like you to name those AOE healing that you are talking about. Because there is NOT many of them.
And to complete my post, what is wrong on NB playing as a healer? Everyone can play as he wants, no one should dictate to anyone "You are NB, you are supposed to be sneaking in PVP and shoot people from sneak with bow."
I say big NO! for removing healing springs.
And again no value added...
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Galalin✭✭✭✭✭Again im not going to copy all the names here but there are some good posts of alternative solutions to the lag... I'm just hoping ZoS may consider some of these
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Cody✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Healing springs is not the issue gal, the issue is ZOS' inability to fix their game.
Yes the spamming of healing springs causes lag, but as does abilities like meteor. with this logic, we need to replace meteor with something much weaker as well. Yes there are players that may or may not be taking advantage of this situation, but we do not need to be nerfing(and yes it is basically a nerf in my opinion) abilities left and right all because the game is in a bad spot. It is ZOS's job to fix the game, so we need to be convincing them to do so; not nerfing abilities that do not need nerfing.
if healing springs gets removed, then the only class that will have a decent AOE heal is the templar. No other class will be able to heal more than one person at once unless they spam that 3rd skill in the resto staff line(which is not a feasible tactic) making templars really the only class that can be even halfway decent healers.
Let's not ruin a role for 3/4 classes due to failures on the side of ZOS. Lets give ZOS the time needed to fix the game, rather than nerfing it down and hoping something works.
#Argonianmasterrace2 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭As a Templar, no. I'm actually tired of healing and think anything to move away from expecting templars to have to be the ones heaLing would actually be much better. As it is, I think other classes are capable enough but the perception isn't quite there.0 -
Tintinabula✭✭✭✭✭
✭As a Templar, no. I'm actually tired of healing and think anything to move away from expecting templars to have to be the ones heaLing would actually be much better. As it is, I think other classes are capable enough but the perception isn't quite there.
lol just lol..that's like saying" I'm a sorc and I wanna tank! I'm tired of wiggling my fingers and using magika." If you are tired of templars being expected to heal?...roll a new class.0 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Tintinabula wrote: »As a Templar, no. I'm actually tired of healing and think anything to move away from expecting templars to have to be the ones heaLing would actually be much better. As it is, I think other classes are capable enough but the perception isn't quite there.
lol just lol..that's like saying" I'm a sorc and I wanna tank! I'm tired of wiggling my fingers and using magika." If you are tired of templars being expected to heal?...roll a new class.
Hmm not sure where your mindset is at but a lot of Templars do not run heal builds and do just fine. Its just others expect it.2 -
Galalin✭✭✭✭✭Tintinabula wrote: »As a Templar, no. I'm actually tired of healing and think anything to move away from expecting templars to have to be the ones heaLing would actually be much better. As it is, I think other classes are capable enough but the perception isn't quite there.
lol just lol..that's like saying" I'm a sorc and I wanna tank! I'm tired of wiggling my fingers and using magika." If you are tired of templars being expected to heal?...roll a new class.
Hmm not sure where your mindset is at but a lot of Templars do not run heal builds and do just fine. Its just others expect it.
Off topic... personally i think the whole play as you want idea ZoS used.. made balancing this game impossible and created a lot of extra issues... just my opinion and if i see another game like ut in the future i would probably not even start it for that very reason
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Galalin✭✭✭✭✭So would anyone here disagree to changing healing springs to a 20 second tick heal with an increased cost to offset the difference? Thoughts anyone?
I agree with you @cody there are alot of things like meteor that need addressed too but you have to start somewhere.
Added: doing so would free up some the spamming causing lag in cyrodiil and also free up healers to use other abilities while still retaining the values of heals in both PvE and PvP
DK SCRUB OUTEdited by Galalin on April 12, 2015 10:32PM0 -
Cody✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭So would anyone here disagree to changing healing springs to a 20 second tick heal with an increased cost to offset the difference? Thoughts anyone?
I agree with you @cody there are alot of things like meteor that need addressed too but you have to start somewhere.
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i do not agree with this change. Hots are weak enough in general combat as it is. a 20 second tick would mean less healing every tick, and an increased cost would mean less usage.
Heck just try using momentum in combat, the HoT only works if you do not get hit:/ its almost the same with vigor, vigor just heals for a crap ton and a little healing gets thru as one gets damaged.Edited by Cody on April 12, 2015 10:26PM0 -
Hypertionb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭anyone still using springs is a noob.
your heals are 33% better using the other morph... and have been since the rebate change.I play every class in every situation. I love them all.0 -
Galalin✭✭✭✭✭So would anyone here disagree to changing healing springs to a 20 second tick heal with an increased cost to offset the difference? Thoughts anyone?
I agree with you @cody there are alot of things like meteor that need addressed too but you have to start somewhere.
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i do not agree with this change. Hots are weak enough in general combat as it is. a 20 second tick would mean less healing every tick, and an increased cost would mean less usage.
Heck just try using momentum in combat, the HoT only works if you do not get hit:/ its almost the same with vigor, vigor just heals for a crap ton and a little healing gets thru as one gets damaged.
I didn't say change the vaue of the ticks anywhere... i said chage the cost of the skill. To be clearer and i pprobably should have been... change the healing to a 20 sec tick heal keeping on par with the tick healing currently done... and change the cost to reflect the amount of healing done in total.
Added:i use momentum.... and the heals are amazingly good... also how is healing springs any different then what you describe from momentum and vigor as its a HoT aswell?
DK SCRUB OUTEdited by Galalin on April 12, 2015 10:40PM0 -
Area51Visitor✭✭✭I say get rid of players that say things like this subject line, then the server will be less stressed.Edited by Area51Visitor on April 12, 2015 11:18PM3
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Anazasi✭✭✭✭✭
✭The issue with healing springs is it 1. is instant 2. it can stack. What you see happening is players simply spam it over and over and over. So essentially you can stand in 5 or 10 of them and be healed x10 x 2000k. The issue is really simple to fix and I am surprised it has not been tried. Rapid regeneration or mutagen places a buff on a player and you get a heal for x every second. All you need to do to fix it is have healing springs do the same thing. Make last longer and once you have the buff on you, you can not get another till it expires. Simply put you step in healing springs you get a 12 second buff that ticks for 2k per tick till its over. No more standing in 20 to get massive HOTs. Remove the spam mechanic and you will eliminate the spam.
Buffs are wonderful there is a whole list of them with 1.6 add another and be done with it.0 -
Galalin✭✭✭✭✭The issue with healing springs is it 1. is instant 2. it can stack. What you see happening is players simply spam it over and over and over. So essentially you can stand in 5 or 10 of them and be healed x10 x 2000k. The issue is really simple to fix and I am surprised it has not been tried. Rapid regeneration or mutagen places a buff on a player and you get a heal for x every second. All you need to do to fix it is have healing springs do the same thing. Make last longer and once you have the buff on you, you can not get another till it expires. Simply put you step in healing springs you get a 12 second buff that ticks for 2k per tick till its over. No more standing in 20 to get massive HOTs. Remove the spam mechanic and you will eliminate the spam.
Buffs are wonderful there is a whole list of them with 1.6 add another and be done with it.
Thats exactly where i was going about the 20 sec ticks... and i agree with everything said here... change the duration and make the spam gone... costs and values can be played with but the duration needs to change
DK SCRUB OUTEdited by Galalin on April 12, 2015 11:40PM0 -
hamon✭✭✭✭✭
✭kkravaritieb17_ESO wrote: »kkravaritieb17_ESO wrote: »Well tbh theres no other viable aoe heal in game except healing springs and that should change along with healing ritual.
Agreed... but to point out there are a ton of self healing abilities in this game... and a group buff would boost them all... effectively replacing the need for group heals. Although im sure that could and will be debated
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Sorry to say but that argument is null to me why would everybody self heal in a group when you can have a couple people dedicated to healing?
Templars have AoE heals... vigor is AoE heals... there are probably atleast 6 other AoE heals plus a ton of self heals in the game... again i think you may only be looking at the loss and not the gain thay would come with it...30% increased healing taken buff would affect all of those providing MORE heals than healing springs.
Its the whole picture ppl need to look at.. not just what your losing but also what your gaining.
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i could buy the removal of healing springs if they moved vigor much lower down the AW tree. i mean to get vigor its what maybe 1000 hours of pvp? and that needs doing on each character which is possibly the second biggest grind in the game apart from champion system..
its a joke imo..
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Galalin✭✭✭✭✭kkravaritieb17_ESO wrote: »kkravaritieb17_ESO wrote: »Well tbh theres no other viable aoe heal in game except healing springs and that should change along with healing ritual.
Agreed... but to point out there are a ton of self healing abilities in this game... and a group buff would boost them all... effectively replacing the need for group heals. Although im sure that could and will be debated
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Sorry to say but that argument is null to me why would everybody self heal in a group when you can have a couple people dedicated to healing?
Templars have AoE heals... vigor is AoE heals... there are probably atleast 6 other AoE heals plus a ton of self heals in the game... again i think you may only be looking at the loss and not the gain thay would come with it...30% increased healing taken buff would affect all of those providing MORE heals than healing springs.
Its the whole picture ppl need to look at.. not just what your losing but also what your gaining.
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i could buy the removal of healing springs if they moved vigor much lower down the AW tree. i mean to get vigor its what maybe 1000 hours of pvp? and that needs doing on each character which is possibly the second biggest grind in the game apart from champion system..
its a joke imo..
This is a progressive thread... i and others have also raised other alternative solutions later in the thread... do you think any of those might work for you? Or have some ideas of you own you would like to share?
And i fully agree about the vigor statement
DK SCRUB OUTEdited by Galalin on April 12, 2015 11:47PM0 -
Cody✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭So would anyone here disagree to changing healing springs to a 20 second tick heal with an increased cost to offset the difference? Thoughts anyone?
I agree with you @cody there are alot of things like meteor that need addressed too but you have to start somewhere.
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i do not agree with this change. Hots are weak enough in general combat as it is. a 20 second tick would mean less healing every tick, and an increased cost would mean less usage.
Heck just try using momentum in combat, the HoT only works if you do not get hit:/ its almost the same with vigor, vigor just heals for a crap ton and a little healing gets thru as one gets damaged.
I didn't say change the vaue of the ticks anywhere... i said chage the cost of the skill. To be clearer and i pprobably should have been... change the healing to a 20 sec tick heal keeping on par with the tick healing currently done... and change the cost to reflect the amount of healing done in total.
Added:i use momentum.... and the heals are amazingly good... also how is healing springs any different then what you describe from momentum and vigor as its a HoT aswell?
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yes the heals themselves are good... but i often find them negated as soon as i take any damage from my enemies:/ forcing me to waste even more stamina roll dodging for the heals to take effect; which is fine tbh.
and healing springs can be used at range and affects multiple people. Vigor also affects multiple people, but its a small radius and you are the center. pretty much highlighting you to be focused down by your enemies.
added: I agree with Hamon. if healing springs gets changed, then vigor needs to be moved lower down the AW skillline so Healing springs can be replaced with at least some kind of replacement.
Edited by Cody on April 13, 2015 1:45AM0 -
Galalin✭✭✭✭✭So would anyone here disagree to changing healing springs to a 20 second tick heal with an increased cost to offset the difference? Thoughts anyone?
I agree with you @cody there are alot of things like meteor that need addressed too but you have to start somewhere.
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i do not agree with this change. Hots are weak enough in general combat as it is. a 20 second tick would mean less healing every tick, and an increased cost would mean less usage.
Heck just try using momentum in combat, the HoT only works if you do not get hit:/ its almost the same with vigor, vigor just heals for a crap ton and a little healing gets thru as one gets damaged.
I didn't say change the vaue of the ticks anywhere... i said chage the cost of the skill. To be clearer and i pprobably should have been... change the healing to a 20 sec tick heal keeping on par with the tick healing currently done... and change the cost to reflect the amount of healing done in total.
Added:i use momentum.... and the heals are amazingly good... also how is healing springs any different then what you describe from momentum and vigor as its a HoT aswell?
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yes the heals themselves are good... but i often find them negated as soon as i take any damage from my enemies:/ forcing me to waste even more stamina roll dodging for the heals to take effect.
and healing springs can be used at range and affects multiple people, allowing for ultimately more healing. Vigor also affects multiple people, but its a small radius and you are the center.
Im at work so would have to check but i think the radius is very similar and as a stam build i can pump out alot of healing with next to no cost.. as ppl have stated earlier that changing it to a buff would not be welcomed... how do you feel about the cost and duration changing with the same values on the ticks? The cost would prevent spamming and the gains would be exactly the same as if it was spammed without having to spam it. Although it would cost more upfront if you were to calculate the cost of spamming it over said period and make that equal to the new duration.... the cost per heal would be the same
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Cody✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭So would anyone here disagree to changing healing springs to a 20 second tick heal with an increased cost to offset the difference? Thoughts anyone?
I agree with you @cody there are alot of things like meteor that need addressed too but you have to start somewhere.
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i do not agree with this change. Hots are weak enough in general combat as it is. a 20 second tick would mean less healing every tick, and an increased cost would mean less usage.
Heck just try using momentum in combat, the HoT only works if you do not get hit:/ its almost the same with vigor, vigor just heals for a crap ton and a little healing gets thru as one gets damaged.
I didn't say change the vaue of the ticks anywhere... i said chage the cost of the skill. To be clearer and i pprobably should have been... change the healing to a 20 sec tick heal keeping on par with the tick healing currently done... and change the cost to reflect the amount of healing done in total.
Added:i use momentum.... and the heals are amazingly good... also how is healing springs any different then what you describe from momentum and vigor as its a HoT aswell?
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yes the heals themselves are good... but i often find them negated as soon as i take any damage from my enemies:/ forcing me to waste even more stamina roll dodging for the heals to take effect.
and healing springs can be used at range and affects multiple people, allowing for ultimately more healing. Vigor also affects multiple people, but its a small radius and you are the center.
Im at work so would have to check but i think the radius is very similar and as a stam build i can pump out alot of healing with next to no cost.. as ppl have stated earlier that changing it to a buff would not be welcomed... how do you feel about the cost and duration changing with the same values on the ticks? The cost would prevent spamming and the gains would be exactly the same as if it was spammed without having to spam it. Although it would cost more upfront if you were to calculate the cost of spamming it over said period and make that equal to the new duration.... the cost per heal would be the same
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i get the point, its not a bad idea, i just dont believe in changing stuff over something ZOS should fix.
its not a bad idea, dont get me wrong. I myself just dont approve.0 -
Galalin✭✭✭✭✭So would anyone here disagree to changing healing springs to a 20 second tick heal with an increased cost to offset the difference? Thoughts anyone?
I agree with you @cody there are alot of things like meteor that need addressed too but you have to start somewhere.
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i do not agree with this change. Hots are weak enough in general combat as it is. a 20 second tick would mean less healing every tick, and an increased cost would mean less usage.
Heck just try using momentum in combat, the HoT only works if you do not get hit:/ its almost the same with vigor, vigor just heals for a crap ton and a little healing gets thru as one gets damaged.
I didn't say change the vaue of the ticks anywhere... i said chage the cost of the skill. To be clearer and i pprobably should have been... change the healing to a 20 sec tick heal keeping on par with the tick healing currently done... and change the cost to reflect the amount of healing done in total.
Added:i use momentum.... and the heals are amazingly good... also how is healing springs any different then what you describe from momentum and vigor as its a HoT aswell?
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yes the heals themselves are good... but i often find them negated as soon as i take any damage from my enemies:/ forcing me to waste even more stamina roll dodging for the heals to take effect.
and healing springs can be used at range and affects multiple people, allowing for ultimately more healing. Vigor also affects multiple people, but its a small radius and you are the center.
Im at work so would have to check but i think the radius is very similar and as a stam build i can pump out alot of healing with next to no cost.. as ppl have stated earlier that changing it to a buff would not be welcomed... how do you feel about the cost and duration changing with the same values on the ticks? The cost would prevent spamming and the gains would be exactly the same as if it was spammed without having to spam it. Although it would cost more upfront if you were to calculate the cost of spamming it over said period and make that equal to the new duration.... the cost per heal would be the same
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i get the point, its not a bad idea, i just dont believe in changing stuff over something ZOS should fix.
its not a bad idea, dont get me wrong. I myself just dont approve.
Fair enough
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glak✭✭✭I like the idea proposed of turning Healing Springs into a cast timed burst heal. Basically everything we wanted fixed in Healing Ritual.0
