Get rid of healing springs already.

Galalin · April 2015

@ZoS after all the failed attempts to fix the lag and spread out the blob spammers... can we just fix the real problem already and get rid of healing springs and group damage shields.

There is enough self healing in the game combined with templar heals to completely get rid of healing spings... turn it into a group healing buff... say 30% more healing received for 20 secs... this way it still acts as a heal in the sense all other heals are buffed and it doesn't need to be spammed. I think most would agree this is the single most detrimental cause of lag when in bigger fights... it forces ppl to group up very tight all the while spamming other abilities.

Next: change the meteor animation to something simple.... i think most would also agree as soon as the meteor spams start ot has almost the same effect on lag. I don't think a single person is going to say i like the animation more than the lag it produces... the simple little blue circle around you with a smaller simple animation would suffice.. and lastly the sound effects that come with meteor i also feel contribe to the lag... but thats just my own opinion.

This has been a known problem forever now... its time to do something about it other than let your player base point fingers at eachother yelling exploit.

DK SCRUB OUT

kkravaritieb17_ESO · April 2015

I used to heal only with breath of life before 1.6 but now i am forced to heal with healing springs because of damage discrapancies. I wished and asked for many times healing ritual of templar become an aoe without a cast time so you dont have to use healing springs but i doubt my requests will be heared at all. Healing ritual could be such a nice aoe heal without causing lag.

Galalin · April 2015

kkravaritieb17_ESO wrote: »

I used to heal only with breath of life before 1.6 but now i am forced to heal with healing springs because of damage discrapancies. I wished and asked for many times healing ritual of templar become an aoe without a cast time so you dont have to use healing springs but i doubt my requests will be heared at all. Healing ritual could be such a nice aoe heal without causing lag.

I agree with you 100% and by changing healing springs to a group buff of increased healing it would act basically as stacking both without the spamming and lag

DK SCRUB OUT

Woman · April 2015

I just think Healing Ritual should actually be a useful skill. It's kind of ridiculous:
1) It's a channel (So you can't be move/block)
2) Has a long cast time
3) Is basically a wannabe burst that's not a burst
4) Costs a lot of mana
5) CAN BE INTERRUPTED

Seriously... They need to make that heal actually viable and an alternative to springs.

Galalin · April 2015

Woman wrote: »

I just think Healing Ritual should actually be a useful skill. It's kind of ridiculous:
1) It's a channel (So you can't be move/block)
2) Has a long cast time
3) Is basically a wannabe burst that's not a burst
4) Costs a lot of mana
5) CAN BE INTERRUPTED

Seriously... They need to make that heal actually viable and an alternative to springs.

With the crap ton of self heal abilities in the game... the other in resto... templar heals.... vigor... etc. There is more than enough that if healing spings changed to a heal buff it would balance out the same if not better... not to say that ritual couldn't use a buff but thats a topic that deserves its own thread

DK SCRUB OUT

DeLindsay · April 2015

Hi, NB PvE Healer here and my response is HELL NO! ZoS indeed needs to fix the lag not remove viable abilities for PvE to "fix" Cyrodiil.

bellanca6561n · April 2015

My thoughts too...problem is the game gets strange when you have Cyrodiil abilities and your abilities everywhere else

Galalin · April 2015

DeLindsay wrote: »

Hi, NB PvE Healer here and my response is HELL NO! ZoS indeed needs to fix the lag not remove viable abilities for PvE to "fix" Cyrodiil.

Idk here but that whole response just doesn't seem to sit right... since when in any game has a NB been a healing class... now i get its possible in ESO but did you seriously roll a NB to heal? This is prob a discussion for another thread and you have a very valid point no matter my opinion of a healing NB.... but if your are relying solely on healing springs to be a healer idk what to say... the whole point of changing healing springs into a healing buff is to increase the effects of other forms of healing... and therefore balancing out the loss with the gains from the buff. Im not sure if you missed that part and are just focusing on the loss aspect

Garion · April 2015

And destroy anyone who enjoys group healing / supportive play that isn't a templar? Noty.

Galalin · April 2015

Garion wrote: »

And destroy anyone who enjoys group healing / supportive play that isn't a templar? Noty.

Thats a pretty bold statement... care to elaborate on exactly how it will it will destroy group healing and supportive play? I mean feedback would help alot more than a blanket statement. .. just sayin because i don't see that at all with changing it a 30% increased healing recived buff. Unless by group play you are reffering to crunch up into the smallest ball possible and spam abilities which i hardly call grp play but rather a lazy mans way to push 1 or 2 buttons while following a crown and kill ppl while calling it leet skillz

Added: im not saying that isn't a valid tactic but rather it shouldn't be.

DK SCRUB OUT

kkravaritieb17_ESO · April 2015

Well tbh theres no other viable aoe heal in game except healing springs and that should change along with healing ritual.

Junipus · April 2015

And when removing healing springs does nothing to fix the lag?

Galalin · April 2015

kkravaritieb17_ESO wrote: »

Well tbh theres no other viable aoe heal in game except healing springs and that should change along with healing ritual.

Agreed... but to point out there are a ton of self healing abilities in this game... and a group buff would boost them all... effectively replacing the need for group heals. Although im sure that could and will be debated

DK SCRUB OUT

kkravaritieb17_ESO · April 2015

We can blame each other for exploting abilities and causing lag but the problem is for zos to deal with. No matter what you do big groups are always going to zerg and use abilitties that cause lag. We can only hope for ZoS to put their ducks in a row and give PvP the attention it requires.

kkravaritieb17_ESO · April 2015

Galalin wrote: »

kkravaritieb17_ESO wrote: »

Well tbh theres no other viable aoe heal in game except healing springs and that should change along with healing ritual.

Agreed... but to point out there are a ton of self healing abilities in this game... and a group buff would boost them all... effectively replacing the need for group heals. Although im sure that could and will be debated

DK SCRUB OUT

Sorry to say but that argument is null to me why would everybody self heal in a group when you can have a couple people dedicated to healing?

Galalin · April 2015

dap_robertb16_ESO wrote: »

And when removing healing springs does nothing to fix the lag?

There is that possibility... however highly unlikely. There is also the side effect from changing healing springs that would eliminate the need to be jammed into a tiny circle and thus allowing players to spread out which i think would also have an impact not only on the lag but the dynamics of PvP itself allowing for new and much more diverse tactics

DK SCRUB OUT

Galalin · April 2015

kkravaritieb17_ESO wrote: »

We can blame each other for exploting abilities and causing lag but the problem is for zos to deal with. No matter what you do big groups are always going to zerg and use abilitties that cause lag. We can only hope for ZoS to put their ducks in a row and give PvP the attention it requires.

I couldn't agree with you more

DK SCRUB OUT

Galalin · April 2015

kkravaritieb17_ESO wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

kkravaritieb17_ESO wrote: »

Well tbh theres no other viable aoe heal in game except healing springs and that should change along with healing ritual.

Agreed... but to point out there are a ton of self healing abilities in this game... and a group buff would boost them all... effectively replacing the need for group heals. Although im sure that could and will be debated

DK SCRUB OUT

Sorry to say but that argument is null to me why would everybody self heal in a group when you can have a couple people dedicated to healing?

Templars have AoE heals... vigor is AoE heals... there are probably atleast 6 other AoE heals plus a ton of self heals in the game... again i think you may only be looking at the loss and not the gain thay would come with it...30% increased healing taken buff would affect all of those providing MORE heals than healing springs.

Its the whole picture ppl need to look at.. not just what your losing but also what your gaining.

DK SCRUB OUT

Tankqull · April 2015

Galalin wrote: »

Garion wrote: »

And destroy anyone who enjoys group healing / supportive play that isn't a templar? Noty.

Thats a pretty bold statement... care to elaborate on exactly how it will it will destroy group healing and supportive play? I mean feedback would help alot more than a blanket statement. .. just sayin because i don't see that at all with changing it a 30% increased healing recived buff. Unless by group play you are reffering to crunch up into the smallest ball possible and spam abilities which i hardly call grp play but rather a lazy mans way to push 1 or 2 buttons while following a crown and kill ppl while calling it leet skillz

Added: im not saying that isn't a valid tactic but rather it shouldn't be.

DK SCRUB OUT

it would make templars beeing the only possible healers as no other class would be able to heal through anything in PvE but would not change anything in PvP as the problem is the mechanic on the server side wich is the same regardless of using healing springs or healing ritual and not the optical displaying.

what evntually could help is making springs not stackable anymore but increase the healing output of it to match its current heal values while stacked that way the amount of checks to be done on serverside could be drastically reduced, but getting rid of it would only screw PvE.

helediron · April 2015

I am also running hybrid NB dps/heal in PvE. It's been very viable build since 1.6. Search nightblade bloodmage if you want to know more. Removing springs is too big loss in PvE. And there is no other burst heal than springs for nightblades. Find another way please.

Overall it looks like Cyro lag comes from multiple AoE DoTs and HoTs. The animations run on clients and do not create server load. I think animation changes would not make any difference. Shortening or removing the DoT/HoT parts would help more with the lag. The real source of lag might be burning breath...

Garion · April 2015

Galalin wrote: »

Garion wrote: »

And destroy anyone who enjoys group healing / supportive play that isn't a templar? Noty.

Thats a pretty bold statement... care to elaborate on exactly how it will it will destroy group healing and supportive play? I mean feedback would help alot more than a blanket statement. .. just sayin because i don't see that at all with changing it a 30% increased healing recived buff. Unless by group play you are reffering to crunch up into the smallest ball possible and spam abilities which i hardly call grp play but rather a lazy mans way to push 1 or 2 buttons while following a crown and kill ppl while calling it leet skillz

Added: im not saying that isn't a valid tactic but rather it shouldn't be.

DK SCRUB OUT

As a sorc I rely on healing springs when healing groups. And no, I'm not talking about a blob. My guild do not play with more than 12 and our normal group size is 8. If we were always blobbed up then combat prayer is a viable alternative but as we are highly mobile and often spread out healing springs is the only heal I can offer that outputs enough healing as well as giving me the range I need to keep the group up.

If you made it so healing springs buffed healing % then I think you'd actually be encouraging blobbing, as people will have to stay very tight to receive heals from BoL and combat prayer, which would become the only alternative for non templars. If you are talking about changing it so that people rely on self sustainability in groups then that means smaller groups (such as those I play with) lose an incredible amount of DPS (because we have to focus on keeping ourselves alive rather than outputting dmg). Thus being in larger groups - and blobs - becomes more viable because you have to increase your overall DPS.

It seems very common for everyone to look to skills and abilities etc to try and change the meta game. What should actually be happening is Zenimax should be looking at gameplay and trying to change things that encourage smaller groups and overall separation of the zerg. I am planning to write a thread on it when I get round to it. There are many things that can be done. Destroying one skill will not solve the problem - imo it will aggravate it.

Junipus · April 2015

Galalin wrote: »

dap_robertb16_ESO wrote: »

And when removing healing springs does nothing to fix the lag?

There is that possibility... however highly unlikely. There is also the side effect from changing healing springs that would eliminate the need to be jammed into a tiny circle and thus allowing players to spread out which i think would also have an impact not only on the lag but the dynamics of PvP itself allowing for new and much more diverse tactics

DK SCRUB OUT

The only issue with that is lag occurs when there are large numbers within any given area regardless of stacking or not. As it is, stacking only works in very small areas where the number of particle effects to be calculated is causing most of the lag. It was the same in beta where no-one really stacked but the server had to calculate and prioritise actions within a given area, in that case somewhere roughly the size of an outer keep. ZOS are trying to help by changing the dynamic of PvP to reduce zerging, but that will only go so far. Players can still cause the same amount of lag by having everyone spamming combat prayer/cleanse/rapid regen or vigor if they stack.

ZOS need to keep changing PvP to include a lot more options for small and medium scale combat instead of the one army zerg that it currently devolves into.

Panda244 · April 2015

@Galalin I usually tend to agree with a lot of the things you post... But...

Removing Healing Springs....? Really? And even if they changed it to a group buff it'll still be used the second that buff runs out, it also lets other classes heal through Vet Dungeons, and even "Pro" Healers use it in Trials.... I'm sorry Gal, but... Just no...

Healing Springs is not the source of the lag, I can tell you that much, the source of the lag is completely on ZOS's end, while we're removing Healing Springs can we just remove particle effects from the game completely? Oh, and graphics... Who needs those? As @Agrippa_Invisus said let's just go back to the text-based games... Problem solved.

LameoveR · April 2015

Gyudan · April 2015

Galalin wrote: »

There is enough self healing in the game combined with templar heals to completely get rid of healing spings...

I fully agree with you ... said no sorcerer ever.

CaptainObvious · April 2015

The real problem isn't specifically Healing Springs. The real problem is determination of who gets the effect and the call for that occurring at such a rapid rate.

Healing Springs in the target of ire right now since it is an instant aoe with "low" cost.

Every time it is cast, the server must calculate whether people are in area/not, and what faction they are then add/maintain/reset hots to each player in the area.

I suspect with a large enough group you will get that with rapid regen since the server has to evaluate the people that need it the most which has to perform distance checks over a larger area and evaluate the health percentage of everyone in that area to determine the 2 people to affect.

To discourage blobbing why not simply change AoE damage diffusion to be an amplification. Multiply the damage based on number of players. 24 people standing in a small area, since AoE will incinerate them all. Rationale, they are effectively keeping each other from avoiding the effect by standing so close to one another. Multiply the effect universally. The diffusion of damage suffers the same problems as rapid regen mentioned above; however, it has to pick 24.

With the bump they did to siege, extend it further. Only have it affect siege damage scaling. That will avoid the possible increase in pulsers attempting to stealth into large groups to AoE annihilate..

Joy_Division · April 2015

Are you joking? There are a grand total of two healing skills worth a s*it in this game and you want to remove one?

Avindra · April 2015

Healing Springs is a great low cost aoe heal. If you change it to a buff then we have to waste another slot on the bar.
Everyone knows lag comes from DKs and talons

yeso112860 · April 2015

If you really want lag gone/stop zerging how about this:

Magicka Detonation
Using this new ability will place a bomb on your target. After 4 seconds, the bomb will explode dealing high area of effect damage. This ability has a 2 second cast time.
Inevitable Detonation (morph)This ability will deal area of effect damage spread if dispelled.

Unlikely to happen but just a thought

cozmon3c_ESO · April 2015

Healing through walls needs to be fixed, heals should be Los only.

The issue with these blob groups is there purge spam coupled with healing. Purge needs a Nerf really, it shouldn't dispelled more then one effect on 2 people per person. And purge should have a heal attached to one of its morphs.

They need to make detonation actually hurt a blob of people where damage increases with the number of enemies hit.

Cody · April 2015

#Argonianmasterrace