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A TRULY Unbiased Poll About the Trading System
pugyourself
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Lots of discussion going on about the trading system. Numbers are being argued about in terms of what they mean. Let's remove the bias and offer two choices. Feel free to qualify your answer or let your vote speak for itself. This is simply a vote between two options.
If you had to make a choice, between the two options presented, which would it be?
Assume each choice involves the normal dev/improvement commitments from ZOS.
Edited by pugyourself on April 12, 2015 4:35AM If you had to make a choice, between the two options presented, which would it be?
Assume each choice involves the normal dev/improvement commitments from ZOS.
A TRULY Unbiased Poll About the Trading System 115 votes
I prefer the current, guild-based trading system.
52%
60 votes
I prefer to replace the current system with a global auction house.
47%
55 votes
0
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ers101284b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭It seems like I saw a post similar to something like this about 2 threads up.3 -
BigM✭✭✭✭✭
✭I prefer the current, guild-based trading system.Yeah yeah we get it some of you want a wow based AH. All I can say I hope it never happens. I know awhile back it was said they never would do it but right now am not sure if we can trust them on that.But you guys really think a WoW based AH to work on a megaserver? Because the lag would be unbearable.Edited by BigM on April 12, 2015 4:54AM“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge.”
― Stephen Hawking2 -
Zazaaji✭✭✭✭I prefer to replace the current system with a global auction house.Truthfully? Neither
Personally, I'd prefer a personal stall system, similar to what Dream of Mirror Online does. That system would work perfectly in Elder Scrolls world.
Still, given the only two choices allocated to me here, Auction House would be better.Edited by Zazaaji on April 12, 2015 5:04AMEnglish is not my first language, Finnish is.
Please don't heap on me for grammar problems.0 -
pugyourself✭✭✭✭I prefer the current, guild-based trading system.Yeah yeah we get it some of you want a wow based AH. All I can say I hope it never happens. I know awhile back it was said they never would do it but right now am not sure if we can trust them on that.But you guys really think a WoW based AH to work on a megaserver? Because the lag would be unbearable.ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »It seems like I saw a post similar to something like this about 2 threads up.
I don't want an auction house. I love the guild-based system. Another poll has everyone arguing over which choices should be combined. This one has two choices so there should be no arguing over that piece at least.
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ssewallb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Making people choose one thing or the other doesn't make something unbiased.5 -
Genomic✭✭✭✭✭I prefer to replace the current system with a global auction house.This is not unbiased at all. In fact, it's more biased than the other polls. It's a clear case of a false dichotomy.
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ers101284b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭pugyourself wrote: »Yeah yeah we get it some of you want a wow based AH. All I can say I hope it never happens. I know awhile back it was said they never would do it but right now am not sure if we can trust them on that.But you guys really think a WoW based AH to work on a megaserver? Because the lag would be unbearable.ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »It seems like I saw a post similar to something like this about 2 threads up.
I don't want an auction house. I love the guild-based system. Another poll has everyone arguing over which choices should be combined. This one has two choices so there should be no arguing over that piece at least.
There's no argument anyway. There's not going to be an auction house. And since ZOS does the exact opposite of what's asked the more you beg for an AH the less likely you are to get one.0 -
pugyourself✭✭✭✭I prefer the current, guild-based trading system.ssewallb14_ESO wrote: »Making people choose one thing or the other doesn't make something unbiased.
True. But the wording in the choices and the choices presented here do make this an unbiased poll (not counting sampling error issues).0 -
Genomic✭✭✭✭✭I prefer to replace the current system with a global auction house.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma
A false dilemma (also called black-and-white thinking, bifurcation, denying a conjunct, the either–or fallacy, false dichotomy, fallacy of exhaustive hypotheses, the fallacy of false choice, the fallacy of the false alternative, or the fallacy of the excluded middle) is a type of informal fallacy that involves a situation in which only limited alternatives are considered, when in fact there is at least one additional option.2 -
pugyourself✭✭✭✭I prefer the current, guild-based trading system.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma
A false dilemma (also called black-and-white thinking, bifurcation, denying a conjunct, the either–or fallacy, false dichotomy, fallacy of exhaustive hypotheses, the fallacy of false choice, the fallacy of the false alternative, or the fallacy of the excluded middle) is a type of informal fallacy that involves a situation in which only limited alternatives are considered, when in fact there is at least one additional option.
Thank you. I didn't know such a site as Wikipedia existed! Thank you for contributing to the discussion!
Whichever of these options is preferable in this poll can be presented in a subsequent poll against another option.
For example, if "Auction House" comes out on top perhaps you could start a poll comparing auction house to housing kiosks (not really relevant because housing may never come). You could think of it as a ladder tournament of sorts, as referenced here on that wonderful Wikipedia site (really thanks for introducing me to that wonderful source of knowledge).
This poll simply compares two options and puts them up for a vote.
On this forum, when more than two options are presented, people from both sides begin to argue about which poll numbers should be combined to support their case. This eliminates that phenomenon.3 -
Genomic✭✭✭✭✭I prefer to replace the current system with a global auction house.Don't come the raw prawn, you're deliberately conflating or excluding people who want changes to the current system but not a global AH, in order to skew the results in favour of your viewpoint. Because in the other poll only 20% shared your view. It's pretty obvious.
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pugyourself✭✭✭✭I prefer the current, guild-based trading system.Don't come the raw prawn, you're deliberately conflating or excluding people who want changes to the current system but not a global AH, in order to skew the results in favour of your viewpoint. Because in the other poll only 20% shared your view. It's pretty obvious.
Actually, no. In the first poll (mine), the current system won out. Then someone started another poll presenting choices that others began "combining" to support their various views.
This eliminates the "bias" from the other two polls and prevents combining numbers to support a point and then arguing about it. How about this: whichever wins can be put up against "changes to the current system" in my next poll. Would that satisfy you? It lets votes take place on all but prevents those who would combine various choices and then argue that those combinations support their views (a wholly unproductive exercise)3 -
pugyourself✭✭✭✭I prefer the current, guild-based trading system.Don't come the raw prawn, you're deliberately conflating or excluding people who want changes to the current system but not a global AH, in order to skew the results in favour of your viewpoint. Because in the other poll only 20% shared your view. It's pretty obvious.
Also, what in the world does "don't come the raw prawn" mean?1 -
Genomic✭✭✭✭✭I prefer to replace the current system with a global auction house.Mind you, I'd laugh if the Global AH won out in this poll...2
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pugyourself✭✭✭✭I prefer the current, guild-based trading system.Mind you, I'd laugh if the Global AH won out in this poll...
And I'd be fine with that if it does. I don't support it but I'd personally like to know if that is what people really want. In a way that is easy to read, where people don't combine the various choices to fit their view. Like I said, I'm more than willing to put the winner of this poll up against another of the choices subsequently.3 -
Nebthet78✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I prefer to replace the current system with a global auction house.I would prefer a hybrid system over the current one.
Far too many characters to list any more.0 -
Messy1✭✭✭✭✭
✭I prefer the current, guild-based trading system.Yeah yeah we get it some of you want a wow based AH. All I can say I hope it never happens. I know awhile back it was said they never would do it but right now am not sure if we can trust them on that.But you guys really think a WoW based AH to work on a megaserver? Because the lag would be unbearable.
So the megaserver could not handle a global auction house?
I get it that the megaserver allows everyone to play together, albeit, with a lot of phasing and instanced, but why would a global ah cause so much lag? Because of the sheer number of listings?0 -
Steinschlag✭✭✭I prefer to replace the current system with a global auction house.I can good play and make gold with the current system and find it cool. It's a fresh, new thing. But if i ever had a choice, i think i will prefer the tradiotional Way
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Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I prefer to replace the current system with a global auction house.Of the two choices on offer here, I'd prefer the auction house one, but it wouldn't make sense for it to be global. However, I'd be much happier if we could all simply accept that the present system is too restrictive for sellers and too cumbersome for buyers, while an auction house is an unrealistic prospect. The advocates of both systems need to come together and agree on a sensible modification to the existing system and then jointly lobby ZOS to implement it.
We need a way of enabling low level, casual and non-guild players to participate in selling while removing the need for buyers to traipse all over the world in order to find what's on offer within the kiosks in those areas to which they are restricted by level and alliance. This could be easily achieved by allowing non-guild members to list items for sale in guild kiosks at a significant listing price per item set at a level that would encourage but not require guild membership, to the considerable financial advantage of the guilds, coupled with some form of central search and retrieval function. Anything less will simply keep this debate simmering in the cauldron for months to come and will also continue to deter those players who cannot effectively participate in the trading system whether as seller or buyer, and which is an absurd situation in a MMO given that trading is a core aspect of any such game.Edited by Tandor on April 12, 2015 7:16AM3 -
Messy1✭✭✭✭✭
✭I prefer the current, guild-based trading system.Also . . .
The current system is great for this game. ESO has always been about exploration and to be able to reach some of the better guild traders you have to go exploring.
Getting a guild trader is a source of guild pride a global auction house would take away that sense of accomplishment and pride.
A global auction house would set things up for individuals to undercut and destroy market trends, right now there is stability in prices driven by organizations i.e. guilds and not individuals. The structure of the guild traders right now actually makes it easier for someone to make a quick sale by undercutting. Just post your item in zone chat advertised for much less and someone will come knocking.
Even if a global auction house is implemented, which I hope it is not, rare items like warlock rings and such will still command high prices and some people may even be priced out of buying the item.
Guild traders involve players in the economy more intimately than a global AH. Guilds have to decide if they are going to specialize in selling certain things or if they will take a general store approach.
I'd like to see the guild trader system expanded and innovated.2 -
Messy1✭✭✭✭✭
✭I prefer the current, guild-based trading system.Of the two choices on offer here, I'd prefer the auction house one, but it wouldn't make sense for it to be global. However, I'd be much happier if we could all simply accept that the present system is too restrictive for sellers and too cumbersome for buyers, while an auction house is an unrealistic prospect. The advocates of both systems need to come together and agree on a sensible modification to the existing system and then jointly lobby ZOS to implement it.
We need a way of enabling low level, casual and non-guild players to participate in selling while removing the need for buyers to traipse all over the world in order to find what's on offer within the kiosks in those areas to which they are restricted by level and alliance. This could be easily achieved by allowing non-guild members to list items for sale in guild kiosks at a significant listing price per item set at a level that would encourage but not require guild membership, to the considerable financial advantage of the guilds, coupled with some form of central search and retrieval function. Anything less will simply keep this debate simmering in the cauldron for months to come and will also continue to deter those players who cannot effectively participate in the trading system whether as seller or buyer, and which is an absurd situation in a MMO given that trading is a core aspect of any such game.
This seems like a really good idea. Guilds need to profit a little from listing prices. Right now it's a little absurd that a guild has a store, but they get nothing from the "house" cut. I get that it's kinda like a gold sink, but guild traders also need a gold sink if they make a lot of money. I mean it's kind of a no-brainer that guilds should gave features that the guild can spend money on for cosmetic or game benefits.0 -
MercyKilling✭✭✭✭✭I prefer to replace the current system with a global auction house.Doesn't even have to be an auction house. Just remove the mandatory guild membership to be able to use a kiosk to sell.I am not spending a single penny on the game until changes are made to the game that I want to see.
1) Remove having to be in a guild to sell items to other players at a kiosk.
2) Cosmetic modding for armor and clothing.
3) Difficulty slider.
4) Fully customizable player housing that isn't tied to anything in the game other than having the correct resources and enough gold to build. Don't tie it to PvP, guild membership, or anything at all. Oh, make it instanced so as not to take up world map space, too. Zeni screwed this one up already.
Any /one/ of these things implemented would get me spending again, maybe even subbing.2 -
Alphashado✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I prefer the current, guild-based trading system.There have been so many polls on this topic it's just getting old. This topic has been polled countless times since launch. It is almost impossible to create a poll that everyone will be happy with the poll choices, and they almost always end up in about a 50/50 split anyways.Edited by Alphashado on April 12, 2015 9:04AM1 -
Gandrhulf_Harbard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I prefer to replace the current system with a global auction house.pugyourself wrote: »Lots of discussion going on about the trading system. Numbers are being argued about in terms of what they mean. Let's remove the bias and offer two choices. Feel free to qualify your answer or let your vote speak for itself. This is simply a vote between two options.
If you had to make a choice, between the two options presented, which would it be?
Assume each choice involves the normal dev/improvement commitments from ZOS.
I think you've shot yourself in the foot here.
Because while I don't particularly want a Global AH if the choice is only between the current dysfunctional and divisive system or a Global AH, I'll vote for the Global AH all day long, every day of the week.
And the results of your poll so far suggest I am not alone.
All The Best
Those memories come back to haunt me, they haunt me like a curse.
Is a dream a lie if it don't come true, or is it something worse.2 -
Gandrhulf_Harbard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I prefer to replace the current system with a global auction house.Alphashado wrote: »There have been so many polls on this topic it's just getting old
Isn't that the point of this and at least two of the other polls this last week?
To make forum user so fed up of the topic that they stop voicing dissatisfaction with the current system.
So while @pugyourself 's poll my be unbiased it isn't exactly honest in its intentions.
All The BestThose memories come back to haunt me, they haunt me like a curse.
Is a dream a lie if it don't come true, or is it something worse.2 -
Gandrhulf_Harbard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I prefer to replace the current system with a global auction house.Also . . .
The current system is great for this game. ESO has always been about exploration and to be able to reach some of the better guild traders you have to go exploring.
Getting a guild trader is a source of guild pride a global auction house would take away that sense of accomplishment and pride.
A global auction house would set things up for individuals to undercut and destroy market trends, right now there is stability in prices driven by organizations i.e. guilds and not individuals. The structure of the guild traders right now actually makes it easier for someone to make a quick sale by undercutting. Just post your item in zone chat advertised for much less and someone will come knocking.
Even if a global auction house is implemented, which I hope it is not, rare items like warlock rings and such will still command high prices and some people may even be priced out of buying the item.
Guild traders involve players in the economy more intimately than a global AH. Guilds have to decide if they are going to specialize in selling certain things or if they will take a general store approach.
I'd like to see the guild trader system expanded and innovated.
Let's look at this from the point of real world economic practice.
No Trader worthy of the name would set up their outlet in a place where half their potential customers can't get. Forget the elitist sentiments that seem to run through this debate for a second, and think about basic economics. Why would I want to sell my goods on a pitch half the playerbase can't get to? There is not one iota of common sense in that.
Of course there is stability in the current system, commodities are stable but grossly over-priced because of the money required to bid for a pitch.
The current structure doesn't make it easy for someone to make a quick sale by undercutting at all, because said person would have to spend an hour or more hoping around the world to who knows how many kiosks to find the prices of the commodity BEFORE that person could have enough knowledge to undercut it.
Super rare items are always priced high, doesn't matter whether it is this system or another. At least with a global AH a player can determine the prices of things in one place in a matter of a few minutes. Such ease of access to commodities was considered so vital to the real world economy that collectively we have invest £Billions in technology and structures to permit it to happen at the GLOBAL level almost instantly.
In truth I'd prefer a massively improved and revamped Guild Trader system (one that includes a Trader based in each town for unguilded players to use as well) over a Global AH; but as i said in my previous post if the choice is Global AH or what we have now I'll take the Global AH every time; because the current trade system is IMO the very worst subsystem of any MMO I have ever seen.
All The BestThose memories come back to haunt me, they haunt me like a curse.
Is a dream a lie if it don't come true, or is it something worse.1 -
I prefer the current, guild-based trading system.I voted no to the auction house as per my stance against market manipulation by individuals.
Best trade system since UO.1 -
Audigy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I prefer to replace the current system with a global auction house.Well,
if the choice is only between a forced guild membership trade system and a freely accessible one with an AH, then the latter gets my vote. I want to trade in this game and right now I can not do this. This must change!1 -
Gidorick✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I prefer the current, guild-based trading system.AUCTION HORSE#What ESO really needs is an Auction Horse.
That's right... Horse.
Click HERE to discuss.
Want more crazy ideas? Check out my Concept Repository!1
This discussion has been closed.