Please do not remove veteran ranks.

Aneima · April 2015

I just don't see ZOS removing vet ranks. For starters they just revamped all the provisioning recipes to the appropriate levels I can't see them doing all that for nothing to only have to do it again after removing vet ranks. And secondly, to get from level one to fifty doesn't take long at all. I seriously doubt ZOS wants people to hit endgame level cap in a matter of days. Lastly, it is 100% certain that we will see more dlc. Now with that being said..new content will have new quests,zones etc. Upon doing new quests I seriously doubt it will be only for gold or rewards. Quests = Xp and CPs. I can't see doing quests for merely gold. Xp is the main factor and that means leveling up. I hope ZOS keeps vet ranks and even adds more in the future.

It's an elder scrolls game, people have put thousands of hours into the single player games and this one should be no different.Any mmorpg takes time and some take a lot of time to accomplish what you want. As a matter of fact I would love to see them raise the vet rank higher as long as we get new content.

Gogog Bloodthroat · April 2015

On these countless threads about veteran ranks all I ever see is someone complaining about having to level up. It really just seems everyone wants to be able to make a top level character right from the beginning. They want to be lazy and not play the game and just want v14. First off changing it to level 63 instead of vr is the same thing since now all xp counts towards veteran ranks. Second it is impossible to get rid of veteran ranks at this point. how are they gonna fairly scale down armor and weapons? Is a vr1 who wants to "just wait it out" get the same level 50 gear as a vr14 who put the time in to get to where he is? That would be as "unfair" as you people complaining about not wanting to level and not getting to play with end game content cause you don't wanna level. How about don't complain about not be top level if you don't wanna grind,do quests, or anything else for xp that every other person does to level. you just wanna be vr14....

sztartureb17_ESO · April 2015

First and foremost: I HATE VETERAN RANKS!

Why? I play this game first of all for the pvp. Secondly for end game content like dungeons , arena, trials. Until you reach VR14 you practically cannot do any of those on a competitive level. Yes you can go to Cyrodill at VR1 to play the cannon fodder or the zergling. And good luck finding somebody to do dungeons if you are not not VR14.

So yes, remove the blasted veteran ranks! The faster the better! I have a Breton nightblade at VR14. That is what I chose a year ago with much less knowledge about the game. I like to play the stamina NB, hell I even played that when Harry Potter online was the FOTM. Now I know the ideal race for me would be an Imperial. I leveled one to lvl 47 and have fun in the non-veteran campaign. Once he hits the VR domain I will face again a wall of PVE to do before doing effective PVP that is NONSENSE.

What would be after removing the vetran ranks? Cadwell would offer two quests immediately that could be done even in parallel if one desires so. All zones would be lvl50.
Why would people do that?
-Collect sky-shards
-Level skills! By reaching lvl50 you can be competitive fast but if you want to fight by another style in the game you need to level other skill lines
-Explore dungeons - because you like dungeons not because you HAVE TO.
-Do quests because you like to and because they may be an alternative to give acceptable sets besides crafting. Cosmetics even.
-Go for achievements
-Go for dolmens
-EXPLORATION in any desired sequence NOT THEME PARK!

In this case I would level to lvl50 . Then focus on pvp where I could be competitive with a small amount of skill lines. When in need of a break I would do dungeons hell even a quest or two. But NOT 14 VR ranks worth of quests and grinding!

So please ZOS! REMOVE THE VETERAN RANKS!!!

HungryHobo · April 2015

You guys need to find the core of the problem first. Its not whether the VR levels should or shouldn't... its a question of WHY people want them kept or removed.

Why do people not like them? The grind is long and there is a large power gap between VR1 and VR14 that makes it feel mandatory to get to V14. If VR1's were only 5% weaker than VR14, would so many people complain about not being VR14? Right now, I'd say that gap is around 30-40% at least, so its very substantial. Currently, there is not point in investing in Legendary VR1 gear because you will eventually out level it, and it literally becomes useless.

Why do people want to keep VR Levels? Because they don't want their time and effort invalidated. Lowering the power margin between V1 and V14 will keep some benefit to those who have achieved V14 on the characters they prefer to play, but it should allow V1 players to stay competitive at the very least.

As for crafting, there should be a smaller margin to stat gains. Effectively everything could work the same, but instead of a ~5% gear bonus between any 2 adjacent VR levels, it could be more of a 0.5%-1% bonus.

I personally think that they should be removed, level cap set at 50, and the VR rank crafting modified. The drops in 50 zones could be randomized, so VR14 gear drops equally as often as the VR1 equivalent (which the two would only be about 5% difference in stats). The crafting materials show up randomly, nodes for V1-V14 crafting are equally dispersed in level 50 zones. The current VR14 players wont have to wade through this, they'd keep their V14 gear (benefit for their previous time allocated). As for the 13 skill points and stats you loose, tie them to Caldwell Silver and Gold completion. 1 zone comepleted = 1 skill point and 1 attribute point. The completion of 1 full campaign = 1 extra (so 6 per silver, 6 per gold). The last one could be some quest tied to craglorn.

Bam, a reasonable solution.

akray21 · April 2015

cyclonus11 wrote: »

I wouldn't be all too thrilled to have all of this advancement yanked out from under me. I'd probably unsub. If people don't want to do Cadwell's quests, then provide a valid alternative for advancing (like an expansion pack with totally new content), but keep Cadwell's G/S in place. I personally enjoy them and would be sorely disappointed if I suddenly wasn't able to complete them. I do not plan on playing alts. I always play MMOs with a single character and don't want to have to create new ones to enjoy the other content.

Please remove veteran ranks... the end

AH93 · April 2015

The champion points system sounds more appealing to me than veteran ranks, just a personal preference.

sadownik · April 2015

Gogog Bloodthroat wrote: »

On these countless threads about veteran ranks all I ever see is someone complaining about having to level up. It really just seems everyone wants to be able to make a top level character right from the beginning. They want to be lazy and not play the game and just want v14. First off changing it to level 63 instead of vr is the same thing since now all xp counts towards veteran ranks. Second it is impossible to get rid of veteran ranks at this point. how are they gonna fairly scale down armor and weapons? Is a vr1 who wants to "just wait it out" get the same level 50 gear as a vr14 who put the time in to get to where he is? That would be as "unfair" as you people complaining about not wanting to level and not getting to play with end game content cause you don't wanna level. How about don't complain about not be top level if you don't wanna grind,do quests, or anything else for xp that every other person does to level. you just wanna be vr14....

In my case you couldnt be further from truth. In every MMO i play lvling is exiting process and i love it. Quite often i somewhat loose interest when im maxed out

In ESO case its differnt. 1-50 is ... ok, not many chalenges, everything seems so damn easy, and rewards for porgressing are adequate to difficulty - dissapointing. But i manage. Some quests are even interesting. But then i have to get to vr 14. Nothing really changes during that process - most of the skills you already have, power increase is very average, You can easily notice that quests are much too often a copy of other quests from other factio yuo already did. Funny thing is its still pretty easy, problem is its not satisfying. During all that process finding group members is difficult, and yes im in 3 guilds. I like PvP very much in ESO, whne its playable that is, but i very cleary see that to enjoy it fully i need to get to vr 14 and get decent gear.

Cuyler · April 2015

I could care less either way. What players don't what to realize is that when the VR grind is removed it will simply be replaced by an equal if not longer CP grind. Those who currently have a lot of CP are the only ones to benefit from it. If you have little CP or none at all (i.e. not a vet) well I hate to break it to you.....you'll be grinding CPs as long as it took to get to v14 just to be competitive in trials and PvP.

I think what players are assuming as is completely incorrect is that with the VR gone you'd be able to just lvl to 50 and go PvP or into Trials. That couldn't be farther than the truth. You'll more than likely need to be LvL 50 with ~200 CP to step foot in the easiest trial situation.

Varicite · April 2015

Cuyler wrote: »

I could care less either way. What players don't what to realize is that when the VR grind is removed it will simply be replaced by an equal if not longer CP grind. Those who currently have a lot of CP are the only ones to benefit from it. If you have little CP or none at all (i.e. not a vet) well I hate to break it to you.....you'll be grinding CPs as long as it took to get to v14 just to be competitive in trials and PvP.

I think what players are assuming as is completely incorrect is that with the VR gone you'd be able to just lvl to 50 and go PvP or into Trials. That couldn't be farther than the truth. You'll more than likely need to be LvL 50 with ~200 CP to step foot in the easiest trial situation.

For starters, what those who keep parading this argument out front don't seem to be accounting for is that CP is gained doing what you want to do, whereas VRs are gained doing what you are forced to do, whether you enjoy it or not.

And secondly, 200 CP isn't the same kind of power disparity that V1 - V14 is, as it gains you about 28 levels worth of stats, 14 skill points, and attributes. It's not even close.

Third, nobody needs to be competitive in Trials as a fresh 50, but there's certainly something to be said for being able to at least DO them even at a slower time, whereas now if you try to get a group of V1s together to do Trials, you will simply be laughed at and called a noob or worse.

Cuyler · April 2015

Varicite wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

I could care less either way. What players don't what to realize is that when the VR grind is removed it will simply be replaced by an equal if not longer CP grind. Those who currently have a lot of CP are the only ones to benefit from it. If you have little CP or none at all (i.e. not a vet) well I hate to break it to you.....you'll be grinding CPs as long as it took to get to v14 just to be competitive in trials and PvP.

I think what players are assuming as is completely incorrect is that with the VR gone you'd be able to just lvl to 50 and go PvP or into Trials. That couldn't be farther than the truth. You'll more than likely need to be LvL 50 with ~200 CP to step foot in the easiest trial situation.

For starters, what those who keep parading this argument out front don't seem to be accounting for is that CP is gained doing what you want to do, whereas VRs are gained doing what you are forced to do, whether you enjoy it or not.

And secondly, 200 CP isn't the same kind of power disparity that V1 - V14 is, as it gains you about 28 levels worth of stats, 14 skill points, and attributes. It's not even close.

It's all speculation how it will play out, so is:

Varicite wrote: »

Third, nobody needs to be competitive in Trials as a fresh 50, but there's certainly something to be said for being able to at least DO them

Like I said, I don't care either way, I have three v14s and plenty of CPs. Either they do or they don't I'm in a position to not worry about it. This puts me in an objective perspective.

My point is that players shouldn't assume they'll be able to even DO endgame when first becoming lvl50. This is what seems to be the reason a majority of players want to see VR gone and it could very well be possible that a trials boss will one shot any fresh lvl50, maybe not.

I just see a lot of players who are requesting VR removed for the reason they just don't want to put in the time and effort. I think most haven't really thought about what the alternative is. Basically an equal grind somewhere else, most likely in CPs. Those who don't have a v14 will still most likely need to "grind" CPs to get to that comparable level (based on the last known information regarding the VR removal). That may or may not be a more enjoyable grind than the current one.

"The grass isn't always greener on the other side" kinda thing. It will be greener for current v14s, because we can create a new Alt and have 100s of CPs to immediately bump them when 50. But the fresh lvl 50s will, I'm speculating here, have a comparable amount of time required to acquire all the CPs the current v14s have.

Varicite · April 2015

Cuyler wrote: »

Those who don't have a v14 will still most likely need to "grind" CPs to get to that comparable level (based on the last known information regarding the VR removal). That may or may not be a more enjoyable grind than the current one.

The last known information regarding the VR removal was "we don't know what we're going to do yet", how are you basing this on that? o.O

NewBlacksmurf · April 2015

Just repeating myself.....
Please remove them but don't drop us to 50.
Convert to the champion system logically

Endurance · April 2015

driosketch wrote: »

Chuggernaut wrote: »

I'm pretty sure post VR removal, equipment will start to work work off your max CPs, kind of like Diablo 3.

People complained about the gear grind each time VRs were raised. I can only imagine when 150cp gear comes out, 300cp, 1000?

thats their own fault for takin up provisioning instead of blacksmithing and clothing crafting.. just a bunch of idiots that spend hours lookin for dungeon parties and never find any drops so they come to the forums to complain about this and that..

aside from the monster drop set pieces, i craft everything on my own so its never a problem for me to make better gear or even find stuff while questing

Earthwardzilvox_ESO · April 2015

I agree that the veteran content shouldn't be removed! As much as I hate cadwells silver and gold, there should be an option to explore the other alliances at level fifty. It should be explained better than the platitude of, "seeing life through their eyes." We could be acting as spies, and have additional quests to sabotage the other faction's war potential, for example. Alternatively, we could act as ambassadors in their lands. Perhaps the player should be able to choose between acting as an ambassador or a spy.

In addition to the Cadwell's content, there should be traditional ways to progress. We shouldn't be forced to play in the other faction's zones if we don't want to. Cadwell's content makes leveling a second character painful, because you already know the story for all three factions.

Veteran levels should go to being just levels. There's no reason it should take a million xp to get the same rewards as a regular level. Now that veteran levels are achieved with experience, instead of veteran points, they should be called levels. It's weird that they still have a unique name.

Averya_Teira · April 2015

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

I think all they need to do is remove the VR level designation (and VR level requirement) from all VR gear and simply scale the STATS of those sets off of CP. That way no one has to level alts past VR1 to wear the best gear, but everyone who grinds CP gets the full benefit of their labor.

.

I find this to be a really good idea.

I_killed_Vivec · April 2015

Varicite wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

Those who don't have a v14 will still most likely need to "grind" CPs to get to that comparable level (based on the last known information regarding the VR removal). That may or may not be a more enjoyable grind than the current one.

The last known information regarding the VR removal was "we don't know what we're going to do yet", how are you basing this on that? o.O

The last I heard was when they introduced CP "it involved a complete rebalance of the game which we don't want to do again in a hurry, for obvious reasons".

Coupled with "we need to give the game time to breathe".

Spellcrafting and Justice PvP were also derailed because of balancing problems.

The real problem is lack of content. Certainly for VR10 - VR14. Possibly also for VR1 if you don't want to do Cadwell's.

Scaled DLC would help both. However, from a purely selfish point of view of my own sense of progression I'd like something challenging in an absolute way that scaled content can't provide.

Xjcon · April 2015

Since this thread is still going I wanted to say leave Vet ranks alone and make more content. I say add more vet ranks when you add more content

Sorry but I finished leveling my character. Why should anyone who wants to play not have to do the same?

Varicite · April 2015

Xjcon wrote: »

Since this thread is still going I wanted to say leave Vet ranks alone and make more content. I say add more vet ranks when you add more content

Sorry but I finished leveling my character. Why should anyone who wants to play not have to do the same?

Well, there are 8 character slots. It stands to reason that ZOS expects that at least some of us will use those slots.

Would you be willing to do it 7 more times?

lihentian · April 2015

i would rather like them to be account wide unlock.. like champion point.. so the grind need only go through once, and you can grind it on several different character.

Dridenour2421ub17_ESO · April 2015

How bout this instead of Dropping everything down to 50 lets raise the level cap to 65 or even 70 and make them normal levels the people who are VR14 already start at the 64 mark so that their leveling isn't put to waste and then make new gear for a higher lever and balance it there instead of having to re balance the existing gear, because this vr1 to vr14 is just a terrible grind and it makes it almost unplayable its made me quit twice now i don't want to sit in front of my computer and play 4 hours a day for 4 weeks to be able to start the gear grind to be viable in PVP or PVE specially because i want some alts to. That is one option another is keep the VRs but make them account wide so youre characters are level 50 but your account is VR14 so all your chacaters are VR14

Drej · April 2015

I never truly minded veteran ranks.

Honestly, I'd be fine with them if the exp gain wasn't so....piddling. Questing used to be one of the better ways to level VR, but now, the quests give about a sugar grain's worth of experience bar advancement. I just think it's a little ridiculous how hard EXP was nerfed. Put the experience back the way it was, but keep the difficulty levels the way they are now - given how much they've hunted down and nerfed grinding zones, it seems as if they want us to do quests and dungeons/delves/pledges.

So....I couldn't care less if they removed or kept them, as long as they did something about the speed at which these ranks are leveled.

kijima · April 2015

Glurin wrote: »

Future patch notes:

Veteran ranks removed.

Maximum level raised to 63.

Or level 100 gets introduced.

Arezius · April 2015

nimander99 wrote: »

Don't be shocked when ZoS realizes the impossibility of rebalancing the game down to level 50 and posts a letter saying Ranks are here too stay.

Who says removing veteran rank will diminish your level to 50 ? Who said anything official about it anyway ? So Why do you speculate on the negative all the time on this forum ?..

My guess is they will change the veteran rank to level 64 (50+14), and raise the cap to level 70-75 when adding a new zone at the same time. But again, my own guesses and it should stays at that.

Sure we can't trust Zenimax on everything, but come on, stop the hate when there's not even any announcement on it yet.

Naivefanboi · April 2015

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

cyclonus11 wrote: »

I wouldn't be all too thrilled to have all of this advancement yanked out from under me. I'd probably unsub. If people don't want to do Cadwell's quests, then provide a valid alternative for advancing (like an expansion pack with totally new content), but keep Cadwell's G/S in place. I personally enjoy them and would be sorely disappointed if I suddenly wasn't able to complete them. I do not plan on playing alts. I always play MMOs with a single character and don't want to have to create new ones to enjoy the other content.

Well can't they remove VR alone tho. I don't think there was any talk about removing VR content as of yet.

id like to keep the veteran ranks. but theyve said reently in eso live theyre still going to remove them someday. but they have been saying that since october.

LonePirate wrote: »

I do not want veteran ranks removed. I would prefer for the XP requirements to be lowered to 400K per level instead of the current 1M and I would also favor having Enlightenment apply to VR levels in order to speed up the leveling process. I would also support the ability of players to use a template to create new VR14 players if they have a VR14 character who has completed Cadwell's Gold.

would like to see smthing along these lines aswell.

skillastat · April 2015

I'd like to be vet 16

RazzPitazz · April 2015

just ugh

Titansteele · April 2015

Leave the VR Ranks alone, adjust the exp so you can hit VR14 by the time you have finished gold and lower craglorn meaning PVP and Dungeons are just ways in which to get to VR14 sooner and concentrate on new zones and player housing.

That way they can introduce a new area and introduce a VR15 rank knowing there is already enough content to hit that in the game without needing the DLC.

Varicite · April 2015

Titansteele wrote: »

Leave the VR Ranks alone, adjust the exp so you can hit VR14 by the time you have finished gold and lower craglorn meaning PVP and Dungeons are just ways in which to get to VR14 sooner and concentrate on new zones and player housing.

That way they can introduce a new area and introduce a VR15 rank knowing there is already enough content to hit that in the game without needing the DLC.

People are sick of being forced to do Cadwell's Silver and Gold.

Alphashado · April 2015

infraction2008b16_ESO wrote: »

Having 63 levels instead of vet ranks would be a pointless change as it would be pretty much the same as vet ranks just with a name change. Having gear linked to cp would also be pointless, while there would be the benefit of not having to grind for alts the grind would still exist for newer players and endgame would be a confusing place where people are not geared for content despite being at the correct level.

What I think should happen instead is scale everything to 50 and replace all vr gear with a single level 50 set equivelent to current vr14 sets and instead have an alternative gear progression tied to champion rank like a new tier of good craftable set bonuses that you can only use when you meet the CR requirements.

That way someone who hits 50 for the first time can gear up to take part in dungeons, trials, pvp etc but there will still be some gear you'll have to work hard and grind before you can put on.

Tying gear progression to champion ranks is a terrible terrible idea. Omg that would just magnify the existing grind into something absolutely atrocious.

Alphashado · April 2015

Gogog Bloodthroat wrote: »

On these countless threads about veteran ranks all I ever see is someone complaining about having to level up. It really just seems everyone wants to be able to make a top level character right from the beginning. They want to be lazy and not play the game and just want v14.

It would NOT be the same thing if 1-63 XP was all the same. And people aren't complaining about having to "level up". They are complaining about the eyeball-bleeding, mind-numbing sheer amount of time and effort to get a single character to level cap. And yes, V14 is level cap. Don't kid yourselves into suggesting that level 50 is the cap like ZoS does.

Gogog Bloodthroat wrote: »

Second it is impossible to get rid of veteran ranks at this point. how are they gonna fairly scale down armor and weapons?

Exactly like it is right now with lvl 63 wearing V14 gear. This also solves the skill point issue. A conversion to level 63 cap is really the easiest and most sensible thing for them to do. The only thing zos would have to change is the XP required post 50 to make it the same as 1-50, and the wording on the gear to say "requires level 63" instead of "requires VR14".

And the best time for them to do this would be with the first DLC. Then they could round it off to a nice number like level 80.