Samadhi wrote: »

If there were unique cosmetic appearances and pre-assigned passive combinations for the mixed races, might be interested with the idea.

If it is simply a way to further tweak builds then not so much.

Would be cool to see a Dunmer with horns IMO! ha

Well, yes, it's a fascinating concept isn't it?

And we have it cosmetically to a degree. You can create an anglo looking Redguard, a pale Dark Elf, Bosmers who look closer to their feral original form and others who look like California girls.

We certainly have lots of mixed race couples in the game. Walks in Ash and Holgunn, for example, an Altmer and a Khajiit, even an Argonian and Dunmer couple.

Not sure how live birth species could create a child with a species born from external eggs but, hey.

Oddly, though, no children in the game but I digress.

Haxnschwammer wrote: »

Following the lore races can mix, but the child will always come after the mother.
Breeding between races can change appearance over time, I think Bretons come from
a centuries long human-elf mix.

You're right. They are a mix of the Nedes with the Altmers.
That's why they are the second most magic powerful race in Tamriel.

Drifting a wee bit off topic, the lore may say one thing, the art another.

Bretons, from their names and their looks, are Medieval French. In the game they look rather plain but perhaps that was the idea....


The woman look unfinished to my eye at least...almost like porcelain dolls...


It simply could be my own taste but I don't sense a great deal of artistic expression in the Bretons.

Part of it's game culture. Most game artists' imaginations soar a bit more when told to create Elves, Orcs, and especially creatures.

Here's Skordo the Knife at the Tower of Lies in Coldharbor.


You can see Skordo's character and personality expressed in every detail of his character model, right down to his fingers. Not only that, the artist knew this character. Had a real sense of him.

And the Dunmer women seem to get more love....or inspire it....


But in the end, this topic is not supposed to be about art or appearance but a fiction that allows us to choose a mix of traits attributed to specific races.

The problem with that is that most would choose those traits deemed more powerful....and then be asking to respc those

I personally think they should do away with the racial passives because they can't seem to balance them correctly.

akray21 wrote: »

I personally think they should do away with the racial passives because they can't seem to balance them correctly.

Think this sort of thing is why we already lost racial ultimates. People trying to take specific races for specific builds.

Personally, as someone who chose all my races based on character design, lore, and backstory, feel completely satisfied with my selections from launch to this day.

It would be a shame to lose flavour bonuses due to complaints though.

AngryNord wrote: »

akray21 wrote: »

I personally think they should do away with the racial passives because they can't seem to balance them correctly.

As if this game haven't ruined TES lore enough already... :-/

No doubt that Balance > Lore (IMO). I personally don't care about lore in any MMO. But, to each their own. So you are ok with unbalanced racial passives? Imperial OP/Altmer OP is ok because it goes along with the lore?

I chose my race because I wanted horns, I didn't realize that I would be missing out on ~2,500 max magicka...

Gidorick wrote: »

akray21 wrote: »

AngryNord wrote: »

akray21 wrote: »

I personally think they should do away with the racial passives because they can't seem to balance them correctly.

As if this game haven't ruined TES lore enough already... :-/

No doubt that Balance > Lore (IMO). I personally don't care about lore in any MMO. But, to each their own. So you are ok with unbalanced racial passives? Imperial OP/Altmer OP is ok because it goes along with the lore?

I chose my race because I wanted horns, I didn't realize that I would be missing out on ~2,500 max magicka...

Personally Lore>balance. There should be some imbalance, otherwise what's the point in having different races?

What would be the point in choosing an inferior race if you are wanting to do end game PvP or PvE content? Why would one want to cripple themselves? If this is the case then they should put a big warning before you choose a race saying that if you pick one of the inferior races that you are going to gimp yourself for endgame content.

I have put nearly 19 days of /played into one character and am still in the process of leveling skill lines, and I feel gimped because of a choice that I made a year ago. I had no idea it would have this effect on me. They need to do 1 of the following things at MINIMUM:

1. Allow a one time race change due to all the changes that they have made over the last year
2. Remove racial passives all together
3. Sell max rank VR14 toons so that people like me can buy one that is the correct race

Or would you rather I have to spend another 19 days of my life in order to be on a level playing field?

For me the lore is paramount, but I don't see why they can't be balanced as well.

I'd like to note that a lot of people on the forums seem to think that balance means "equal" and while everyone being "equal" would, technically, be balanced, I don't think that's what most people want in the way of balancing.

What I want is to make sure that every race has passives that are worthwhile and competitive. Not the same passives, not ones that give the same bonuses (Bosmer should not have the magicka bonuses that Altmer have, Bretons should not have the same stamina bonuses Bosmer have, etc.) because each of the races is different and they have different biologies/histories/etc. But that doesn't mean that a few races should have a superior advantage over the rest, full-stop. That's absurd, and leads to those races being the main races being played in the game, which is ridiculously boring, especially in a world as immersive and diverse as Tamriel.

So, ideally, passives for each race should be useful, competitive, AND lore-friendly. It's really not that hard to do. If you want to give a "just for fun" passive for a race (such as the increased swim speed that Argonians benefit from), then all races should have one "just for fun" passive (again, not the same one) that don't give combat advantages. And I'm completely for "just for fun" passives, as long as they don't replace combat passives, lowering a race's efficacy in battle.

Now, if you're a player that's upset because you chose a race that isn't going to help you maximize your class combat (for instance, you made an Orc Sorc and think that your passives should benefit that class just as much as it does for an Altmer), then that's just going to be something you have to research and choose prior to character creation. I understand that passives have changed since initial creation (I didn't like that either, as all but one or two of my characters are from game release), and for that I'm sorry. I'm not sure I support race changes even in this instance, though. I'm not vehemently against them, just not particularly for them either, because of reasons already mentioned in the forums. If you want equal passives (meaning they are all equally effective for every class/race combination), then we might as well just get rid of them altogether.

EDIT: To go back on topic to biracial, the answer is in the lore, as mentioned. Appearance changes in the races require many generations of interracial breeding, ex. Bretons.

Bookwyrm wrote: »

For me the lore is paramount, but I don't see why they can't be balanced as well.

I'd like to note that a lot of people on the forums seem to think that balance means "equal" and while everyone being "equal" would, technically, be balanced, I don't think that's what most people want in the way of balancing.

What I want is to make sure that every race has passives that are worthwhile and competitive. Not the same passives, not ones that give the same bonuses (Bosmer should not have the magicka bonuses that Altmer have, Bretons should not have the same stamina bonuses Bosmer have, etc.) because each of the races is different and they have different biologies/histories/etc. But that doesn't mean that a few races should have a superior advantage over the rest, full-stop. That's absurd, and leads to those races being the main races being played in the game, which is ridiculously boring, especially in a world as immersive and diverse as Tamriel.

So, ideally, passives for each race should be useful, competitive, AND lore-friendly. It's really not that hard to do. If you want to give a "just for fun" passive for a race (such as the increased swim speed that Argonians benefit from), then all races should have one "just for fun" passive (again, not the same one) that don't give combat advantages. And I'm completely for "just for fun" passives, as long as they don't replace combat passives, lowering a race's efficacy in battle.

Now, if you're a player that's upset because you chose a race that isn't going to help you maximize your class combat (for instance, you made an Orc Sorc and think that your passives should benefit that class just as much as it does for an Altmer), then that's just going to be something you have to research and choose prior to character creation. I understand that passives have changed since initial creation (I didn't like that either, as all but one or two of my characters are from game release), and for that I'm sorry. I'm not sure I support race changes even in this instance, though. I'm not vehemently against them, just not particularly for them either, because of reasons already mentioned in the forums. If you want equal passives (meaning they are all equally effective for every class/race combination), then we might as well just get rid of them altogether.

EDIT: To go back on topic to biracial, the answer is in the lore, as mentioned. Appearance changes in the races require many generations of interracial breeding, ex. Bretons.

Good post. I think in the end they will offer a race change due to $. Their job (ZOS) is to keep people playing, IMO more people will leave over not having the option to change race, than people will leave over implementing a race change.

Anvos wrote: »

akray21 wrote: »

Anvos wrote: »

Playing an Elder Scrolls game isn't supposed to be about min maxing but immersing yourself in the world and being obsessed with flavor of the month rather than you like a race is a road that only leads to constant disappointment when things inevitably change.

There is a story in this game?

Ignoring the story to grind out levels doesn't mean the story isn't there and there is the multitudes of rich background lore as seen in in lore books and some of the regular books.

I was joking. But I would say a large portion of people that play this game don't pay attention to every single quest story line and don't read every line of text. As for myself, I did not pay attention to probably 90% of the story lines, so I don't care. To me, the game is about making your own story.

Istyar wrote: »

akray21 wrote: »

AngryNord wrote: »

akray21 wrote: »

I personally think they should do away with the racial passives because they can't seem to balance them correctly.

As if this game haven't ruined TES lore enough already... :-/

No doubt that Balance > Lore (IMO). I personally don't care about lore in any MMO. But, to each their own. So you are ok with unbalanced racial passives? Imperial OP/Altmer OP is ok because it goes along with the lore?

I chose my race because I wanted horns, I didn't realize that I would be missing out on ~2,500 max magicka...

Dude, you have to realize that a Bosmer would NEVER have the same amount of Magicka as a Altmer has. Like a Altmer will never have the same amount of Stamina as a Orc or a Redguard has, thats why we have races here, and with all due respect, you have to respect it.

If you had researched a little bit more, you would know that if you want to make a caster you probably should have chose a Altmer > Breton or a > Dunmer, cause THEY are the magical races in Tamriel, I'm not saying that the other races can't deal with Magicka, of course they can, I'm just saying that they can't be better at it.

Have you ever heard in the TES lore about ANY mage comparable to:

- Divayth Fyr. Dunmer, problably the most powerful mage in TES lore nowadays. (In the TESIII he was 4000 years old)
- Sotha Sil. Chimer, also known as a God by the Dunmers, the mage who went to Coldharbour, talked to ALL Daedras and got out without a SINGLE scratch.
- Iachessis. Altmer, leader of the early Psijic Order and master of...
- Vanus Galerion. Altmer, founder of the Mages Guild and one of the most powerful mages in Tamriel history also known as close friend and late mortal enemy of...
- Mannimarco. Altmer well, I don't even have to tell about this guy...

And the list goes by... Hidellith, Aryon, Therana, Mankar...

Now, do you understand why the other races can't be as powerful mages as the ones I said? The Lore IS important in an MMO, even more in a Elder Scrolls MMO.

Important to some, not to others.

I researched for about a week, but didn't know how much 10% was going to affect my damage. 10% max anything is a ridiculously overpowered passive. Just let me change race or buy a max level and I will be fine.

LameoveR wrote: »

akray21 wrote: »

For example if I wanted to be a Dunmer but I didn't want flame talent, I could have instead swapped it out with the Bosmer endurance passive. I would be a Dunmer/Bosmer mix.

For example, i want to be born in Switzerland in rich family and have my russian talents: vodka-drinking, bear-riding and Balalaika-playing.
I would be a Swiss/Russ mix. It would be great!

Great, you can choose your race in game, you can't IRL. Games are games, RL is RL.

akray21 wrote: »

Pondering my mistakes in creating my character, I thought of something. Why were we not given the option to be biracial? Would that cause too much of a balance issue?

It could have worked by giving you the option of all 9 (or 10 races) to select as your primary race, then you could choose another race that you you had part of in your blood lines. This would allow you to swap out one racial passive from your main race, and choose another racial passive from your other race. They could have limited these options of course, like you maybe not being able to stack Gift of Magnus with Dynamic.

For example if I wanted to be a Dunmer but I didn't want flame talent, I could have instead swapped it out with the Bosmer endurance passive. I would be a Dunmer/Bosmer mix.

I'm not a lore nut by any means, so excuse me if there are no mixing of races in the ES universe, but I just thought this would add an interesting aspect to character creation.

DIDNT WANT FLAME TALENT??!????

I'd like to see Argonian/Khajiit halfblood.