Weapon Swap's Purpose

Omenpapa · April 2015

What's the intended use for weapon swap? First I thought that to let us use more skills with fewer buttons(which doesn't make too much sense in a PC game, but i guess controllers/consoles are a different thing...), but then If I summon a pet with my sorc and then swap, my summon goes away. On the other hand if I CC a target with a spell, then swap, the CC isn't get removed from the target. If some1 would introduce me this feature then I would say 1 of these is a bug.

1, Can you guys clarify what's the intended use of this feature?
2, Is that really a bug what I just mentioned?
3, If 2 is not true, then what are the general rules for weapon swap? What lasts and what dsappears when I use it?

WraithAzraiel · April 2015

In-combat versatility.

As a DPS you could swap from melee to ranged with a button click.

As a Tank, you can switch from agro-gathering skills with some attacks to a purely mitigation set.

As a Healer, you can switch between a pure heals set to a support set.

pronkg · April 2015

Of course it's not a bug..........

Summons are a toggle skill. It It untoggles when you swap.... Put the skill on both bars.

What does CC on a target have to do with the weapon in your hand???? Comon.

Jroc · April 2015

It's meant to provide a quick second setup if you want to use it. It is not meant to allow you 12 skills, you're suppose to only have 6 (incl. Ult.)

AlnilamE · April 2015

The difference between a summons and a CC is that the first is a toggle and the second is a timed effect.

Toggles need to be on both bars if you want them to persist. Those include the sorc pets, bound armor and Mage Light, and I think DKs have some toggles as well, but I'm not sure.

Timed effects will persist for the duration of their timer. These include shields, buffs, CCs things like the NB shades, etc.

So they are working as intended.

How you use weapon swap depends on your style. On my main, I have a "melee" bar and a "ranged" bar when I'm DPS. When I'm healing, I have two healing bars with slightly different set-ups so I can use extra skills mid-battle if I need to.

Chuggernaut · April 2015

I use it as a buff bar for all my characters. Although as the OP pointed out, not all skill work post swap.

Omenpapa · April 2015

@pronkg
I could also say what does my ability to summon a pet have to do with the weapon in my hand

@AlnilamE
Thank you for the explanation.

I guess I will just use my actives on my priamry, and the buffs/cc/debuff abilities on my secondary then since they persist.

Borders · April 2015

@omenpapa Your pet is a continuous skill. As long as you have it on the bar and summoned it is around. Basically it is like a channel. If you switch you basically stop casting it thus it goes away. CC, Dots, etc are applied to your opponent directly like a debuff. They might have a way to remove the debuff but the fact remains it was applied to them and they have deal with it whether you are still using that skill bar or not. Most buffs debuffs dots etc apply after switching the bar. Some buffs like momentum's dps bonus to 2hander only apply when using the 2hander but the passive healing persist while using another set of weapons. You'll simply have to look at the skills description and see what will stay applied past swapping but most effects will remain applied.

As above poster said weapon swap is there to give your character more versatility. Most modern mmo limit the number of skills you can use at time for simplicity sake (though this does lower intricacy). Another intended effect is to make port to console easier to key map to a game pad.

That being said if you want the pet out all the time keep the skill on both bars though with time I suspect like many Sorcs you'll gravitate away from the pet all together.

pronkg · April 2015

Omenpapa wrote: »

@pronkg
I could also say what does my ability to summon a pet have to do with the weapon in my hand

Then i would say absolutely nothing cause you can summon one with any weapon.

Your skill slots however which are linked to weapon swap.... Anyway good luck man

7788b14_ESO · April 2015

Yes they could just give you a double action bar but that would make your skills level faster as only the bar that's up gets the xp and the weapon/s your holding.

Omenpapa · April 2015

7788b14_ESO wrote: »

Yes they could just give you a double action bar but that would make your skills level faster as only the bar that's up gets the xp and the weapon/s your holding.

That's an artifical thing they created. It wouldnt be hard to create another one, which let's say let u choose 5+1 skills to mark to focus on, thus getting xp for those

So yea, while I understand the benefits for consoles, if they let us use buffs/debuffs which persist throught a swap then there is not much reason to not just give us more action bars imo.

Frankly, I like the idea more to force the player to have only 5+1 skills, and every effect/cc/pets/buffs gets removed when u swap ur skillset.

Fleshreaper · April 2015

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

In-combat versatility.

As a DPS you could swap from melee to ranged with a button click.

As a Tank, you can switch from agro-gathering skills with some attacks to a purely mitigation set.

As a Healer, you can switch between a pure heals set to a support set.

Don't forget single target and AoE.

PKMN12 · April 2015

I have my Nightblade using Her main bar for ranged and her secondary one for melee when needed.

Mage has one for AOE and Single Target

Tank uses A sword and Shield for when defense/tanking is needed, and a two-hander for when it is not needed.

Athas24 · April 2015

Basically what everyone here said. Any summons is similar to a channeled ability and when you swap weapons you swap bars. The skill persists if you have the summons on both bars. For example I have inner light on both bars so it never goes away when I switch staves and the like on my Sorceress. If I were to summon pets or bound armor, the same would need to be true because the ability is linked to the bar, not the weapon since you can weapon swap to 2 of the same weapons, which I also do on a character I run.

purple-magicb16_ESO · April 2015

The skill buttons are simply skills and for the most part can be used in any combination. Of course if the skill is attached to an object (i.e. desto/resto staff) then obviously you have to have that weapon equipped to use that skillset. Summons are considered 'toggle' skills (altho imo they didn't have to be made that way - you could easily make a case for the creature existing on its own outside your power once summoned) so when you summon something it stays until it is either killed or unsummoned (or banished?). So in order to keep the summoned creature from disappearing when you weapon swap, you have to have that summon slotted on your off-hand weapon too for consistency. CC is a spell and is what it is. It's on a 'timer', if you will, and not a toggle skill. It only disappears when it expires or is dispelled by another sorc.

I use weapon swap to line up a different backup skillset (like heals) for use in battle. It helps with versatility when you're going into unfamiliar situations. Altho I have trouble using it effectively across builds (i.e. stam to magicka). I'm still struggling with the effectiveness of my experimental 'hybrid' character. Guess being a jack-of-all-trades really does mean you're a master of none.

AlnilamE · April 2015

You are welcome!

After I posted, I wasn't sure if it was clear.

Basically, many people have asked for summons to persist, but I don't think that would be fair. On my sorc, I tend to have a pet on one bar and if I swap he vanishes and I live with it. But it's up to your playstyle.

wilsonirayb16_ESO · April 2015

AlnilamE wrote: »

The difference between a summons and a CC is that the first is a toggle and the second is a timed effect.

Toggles need to be on both bars if you want them to persist. Those include the sorc pets, bound armor and Mage Light, and I think DKs have some toggles as well, but I'm not sure.....

And that's the rub and the main reason the weapon swap system is a failure.

A toggle ability means it's toggled ON or OFF. Switching to a different hotbar or weapon should not change this - there is NO GOOD REASON for it.

But, for toggle buffs I could swallow that and deal with it. What I can't deal with (particularly as a Sorcerer), is being virtually locked into a pet or non pet build, because swapping bars will kill off your summons.

IF the summons were a small macigka cost, then it would be merely just an inconvenience(although a pretty fu**ing big one in fights..). However they are very expensive (too expensive ...)

So if my main bar was to be damage output and my secondary to be healing/CC/pet (aka utility), I can't do both A) It's not persistent, B ) It's inefficient resource use.

And yet there exists a cheesy work around, by simply slotting your ability on both bars, which wastes ability slots.

Where as other classes don't have this issue. As per all the examples given here, you can cover off any play style (direct DD, AOE, Damage, Healing, Melee, Ranged, etc). None of those classes have builds that rely on summons, and thus the only thing they lose is buffs. Sorcerers however lose an entire build/playstyle.

This completely ruined Sorcerer for me.

What a terrible terrible system - absolutely shockingly bad. I won't be playing the Sorcerer again until summons become persistent, and from what I read (because once again amateur developers did not build separate combat mechanics for PVE and PVP), this will never happen because it might some how make Sorcerers 'OP' in PVP.

Islyn · April 2015

Jroc wrote: »

It's meant to provide a quick second setup if you want to use it. It is not meant to allow you 12 skills, you're suppose to only have 6 (incl. Ult.)

Except there is a tip in load screens that says (paraphrase) when you unlock weapon swapping you can load the same weapon in your other slot but load different skills. So I daresay it is indeed meant to allow 12 skills. Which is why you can have totally different or the exact same in both.