Add a way to get Undaunted 2-piece sets in PvP or make them tradeable

Legedric · April 2015

Well, I am a PvP player from the bottom of my heart and I don't like to be forced to do PvE to get items that are pretty much making a huge difference in PvP as of today.

As a PvP player I'd be able to live with just "farm mob XY to get a certain item" but considering the current 2-piece sets are purely random in its form (armor type/trait) and even the distribution itself (gold key lotto) it's a pain in the a** for me as a PvP player to be forced into hours and hours of PvE to get what I need to min-max my PvP playstyle.

PvE players are able to get every single item by just doing PvE. Yes, that's a matter of fact because you are able to buy and trade VR14 PvP vendor items using simple gold. But for PvP players there is no such way for the opposite way.

Undaunted gold keys:
Please add a daily quest to Cyrodiil having an undaunted key as a reward.
A possible quest could be:
- Capture an enemy keep and successfully defend a friendly keep
- (optional for silver key) Capture two enemy keeps and successfully defend two friendly keeps
- (optional for gold key) Capture three enemy keeps and successfully defend three friendly keeps

Disclaimer: DO NOT make it fixed keeps as this would get too hard depending on your campaign. Keep in mind: A PvE player just jas to grab 3 mildly decent other players and run a dungeon on VR1 to get his daily gold key.

Undaunted monster helmets:
Add a special reward mail to PvP for every 15,000 AP you earn. This special reward mail has a chance to randomly include one of the undaunted monster helmets on a low chance.
This way you'd pretty much get on par with the PvE equivalent, although you still won't be able to farm a specific helmet in PvP. However, you#d still have a chance to get a helmet every 30 minutes or so, just like if you'd run a dungeon over and over to farm helmets.

Alternative - Trade Undaunted sets
Much like the PvP items ZOS may change the Undaunted sets and make them tradeable. This way both sets may be acquired by the same way and PvP players also get the chance to buy the sets they want.

No UI coding needed at all to get this done and only using mechanics already available in game right now - Yay!

I know this isn't a perfect draft but that's at least a direction I could think of and I am not the only one having a feeling to be forced to do PvE with random loot mechanics to get some items that are making a huge difference in PvP.

iseko · April 2015

PvP sets are amongst the strongest atm (hello ravager). Purely pve has to buy them from pvp players. I hate pve as well. Still... Dont agree with you

Legedric · April 2015

Of course Ravager is one of the strongest sets but most people are using a 5/5/2 setup or 5/4/2 (for 2-handed weapons) to get most out of their build and you can only achieve this by getting the above mentioned sets.

No doubt you are still "good" if you use other sets and don't go for Undaunted sets but most PvP players want to get the best possible combination for PvP.

Just to make it clear: I am NOT saying to make it easier in general to obtain the sets, I am just saying you should be able to get these items even if you focus 100% on PvP and don't want to waste time doing repetative PvE dungeons and do some lottery to get the item you want for PvP. At the moment there are no comparable items available in PvP at all.

Another solution that would most definitely take more development time would be:
Get best PvE stuff by doing PvE only
Get best PvP stuff by doing PvP only

Just like most other games are doing it (by adding special PvP stats etc.). But that's something way more complicated and time consuming for the devs for sure, so that's not something I want to ptopose for the near future of TESO.

Kas · April 2015

Would be great if undaunted sets were not bound. You could easily turn AP into ravager stuff, sell that and buy your VS.
Ever since ravager got useful, I find myself sitting on millions of gold. Could easily pay 500k for the perfect shoulders with the perfect trait.

Prices would also balance out PvP and PvE players' effort.

AltusVenifus · April 2015

Legedric wrote: »

Well, I am a PvP player from the bottom of my heart and I don't like to be forced to do PvE to get items that are pretty much making a huge difference in PvP as of today.

As a PvP player I'd be able to live with just "farm mob XY to get a certain item" but considering the current 2-piece sets are purely random in its form (armor type/trait) and even the distribution itself (gold key lotto) it's a pain in the a** for me as a PvP player to be forced into hours and hours of PvE to get what I need to min-max my PvP playstyle.

PvE players are able to get every single item by just doing PvE. Yes, that's a matter of fact because you are able to buy and trade VR14 PvP vendor items using simple gold. But for PvP players there is no such way for the opposite way.

Undaunted gold keys:
Please add a daily quest to Cyrodiil having an undaunted key as a reward.
A possible quest could be:
- Capture an enemy keep and successfully defend a friendly keep
- (optional for silver key) Capture two enemy keeps and successfully defend two friendly keeps
- (optional for gold key) Capture three enemy keeps and successfully defend three friendly keeps

Disclaimer: DO NOT make it fixed keeps as this would get too hard depending on your campaign. Keep in mind: A PvE player just jas to grab 3 mildly decent other players and run a dungeon on VR1 to get his daily gold key.

Undaunted monster helmets:
Add a special reward mail to PvP for every 15,000 AP you earn. This special reward mail has a chance to randomly include one of the undaunted monster helmets on a low chance.
This way you'd pretty much get on par with the PvE equivalent, although you still won't be able to farm a specific helmet in PvP. However, you#d still have a chance to get a helmet every 30 minutes or so, just like if you'd run a dungeon over and over to farm helmets.

No UI coding needed at all to get this done and only using mechanics already available in game right now - Yay!

I know this isn't a perfect draft but that's at least a direction I could think of and I am not the only one having a feeling to be forced to do PvE with random loot mechanics to get some items that are making a huge difference in PvP.

Love the idea of adding more ways to just stay in PVP land, but I they should make getting any rewards solo based. They are trying to spread people out, yet when I am in a group I finish my kill quest 50x as fast and receive more AP.

Poxheart · April 2015

Neither of my current PvP builds use undaunted sets and I kill people just fine. I don't see a need to add them to PvP.

Maulkin · April 2015

Nope, nope, nope.

Why do people want stuff without doing the content? I'll never understand that. If you want it enough, you'll go do PvE, if you don't then I'm sure you'll live without it.

If anything I believe we need some new and exciting high-end PvP gear that is RNG and BoP at the same time. They could add for example a very small chance for these sets to drop as purple items in your email lottery boxes.

Seen as you get an email every 5k AP you earn, a 2% chance would mean you get on average 1 item every 250k AP. The average AP/Hour is 15k-20k AP. That still means you'd have to PvP for 10-15 solid hours for a drop. If I PvE for 15 hours I get many more drops from Undaunted bosses, I'm sure.

Legedric · April 2015

How is that different to my proposal other than you are requesting new gear (additional dev/design time needed)?

I'd be even happier with some similarly (over-)powerful 2 piece sets you can only earn in PvP, but I am trying to propose a solution for the current state of the game that doesn't need to much development effort.
The problem just is, there is nothing available that can be compared to the current 2-piece sets in PvP alone and I am forced to waste my time doing PvE if I want to get one of these set bonuses that lack an alternative in PvP.

Maulkin · April 2015

Legedric wrote: »

How is that different to my proposal other than you are requesting new gear (additional dev/design time needed)?

I'll explain the fundamental difference.

Your suggestion means avoiding certain content (PvE) to get the rewards behind it. My suggestion is the exact opposite. If you want the rewards, you'll have to do the content for it. No way out.

If you want Skoria set, you have to kill Skoria many times. If you want the Cyrodill's Champion set (imaginary) you'll have to PvP and kill many players many times.

The problem with offering the same rewards through many modes of end-game content, is that people only stick to their preferred mode and thus are not encouraged to explore the rest of the content. Game developers always want to encourage players to try all the different modes so they stick around with the game longer and don't get burnt out too easily.

Oughash · April 2015

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

If you want Skoria set, you have to kill Skoria many times. If you want the Cyrodill's Champion set (imaginary) you'll have to PvP and kill many players many times.

The problem with offering the same rewards through many modes of end-game content, is that people only stick to their preferred mode and thus are not encouraged to explore the rest of the content. Game developers always want to encourage players to try all the different modes so they stick around with the game longer and don't get burnt out too easily.

I agree with your premise that the same rewards should not be offered across different game modes. The problem is that your imaginary "Cyrodiil Champion" set doesn't exist. And the 2pc Monster sets do. Fortunately, the changes in 1.6 have made PvP-acquired sets much more viable. Stronger differentiation would be nice, e.g. rank-gated sets (purchase or craft), more trial-gated sets (purchase or craft), etc, so that players in each domain can distinguish themselves.

Maulkin · April 2015

Ishammael wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

If you want Skoria set, you have to kill Skoria many times. If you want the Cyrodill's Champion set (imaginary) you'll have to PvP and kill many players many times.

The problem with offering the same rewards through many modes of end-game content, is that people only stick to their preferred mode and thus are not encouraged to explore the rest of the content. Game developers always want to encourage players to try all the different modes so they stick around with the game longer and don't get burnt out too easily.

I agree with your premise that the same rewards should not be offered across different game modes. The problem is that your imaginary "Cyrodiil Champion" set doesn't exist. And the 2pc Monster sets do. Fortunately, the changes in 1.6 have made PvP-acquired sets much more viable. Stronger differentiation would be nice, e.g. rank-gated sets (purchase or craft), more trial-gated sets (purchase or craft), etc, so that players in each domain can distinguish themselves.

Well yeah, ofc it doesn't exist. That's why I'm proposing it. This is a proposals thread

I basically propose that if they make changes they do it properly even if it takes them longer to do. Rather than muck the whole thing up by giving Undaunted Sets from PvP, which doesn't make sense at all to me.

cozmon3c_ESO · April 2015

Key difference, pvp sets are tradable, and the pve sets are not. like the OP said, you can just pve and get the pvp sets with the money you earn, pvpers have to pve if they want the pve sets. this is the disparity and again its not in favor of pvpers.

Maulkin · April 2015

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

Key difference, pvp sets are tradable, and the pve sets are not. like the OP said, you can just pve and get the pvp sets with the money you earn, pvpers have to pve if they want the pve sets. this is the disparity and again its not in favor of pvpers.

Which is precisely why they need to add some new end-game BoP sets as rewards for PvPers, like I suggested. I'm glad we agree :P

cozmon3c_ESO · April 2015

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

Key difference, pvp sets are tradable, and the pve sets are not. like the OP said, you can just pve and get the pvp sets with the money you earn, pvpers have to pve if they want the pve sets. this is the disparity and again its not in favor of pvpers.

Which is precisely why they need to add some new end-game BoP sets as rewards for PvPers, like I suggested. I'm glad we agree :P

yes its long over due

Oughash · April 2015

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Well yeah, ofc it doesn't exist. That's why I'm proposing it. This is a proposals thread

I basically propose that if they make changes they do it properly even if it takes them longer to do. Rather than muck the whole thing up by giving Undaunted Sets from PvP, which doesn't make sense at all to me.

OK yeah, we agree.

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

Key difference, pvp sets are tradable, and the pve sets are not. like the OP said, you can just pve and get the pvp sets with the money you earn, pvpers have to pve if they want the pve sets. this is the disparity and again its not in favor of pvpers.

Good point. I hate the entire "bind on pickup" concept. I understand why "bind on equip" exists (hacking, inflation, keep players moving, etc). Some examples to corroborate your point: I know players that do PvE primarily. They have 5x of every piece of the Vicious Ophidian / Yokeda, &c sets and nothing to do with them. Why not let these be tradeable? Next, there are several dungeon sets which are kinda nice (e.g. Shroud of the Lich, Wurm's Raiment, Hiricine's Veneer, Healing Mage) but nobody uses b/c the drop rates are abysmal and they cannot be traded. Why not?

manny254 · April 2015

That is fine, but let's give all my alts the alliance war skills then. Anyone who thinks alliance war 10 is reasonable for a necessary stamina heal is out of there mind.

cozmon3c_ESO · April 2015

manny254 wrote: »

That is fine, but let's give all my alts the alliance war skills then. Anyone who thinks alliance war 10 is reasonable for a necessary stamina heal is out of there mind.

its reasonable, i must be out of my mind.

Maulkin · April 2015

Ishammael wrote: »

Good point. I hate the entire "bind on pickup" concept. I understand why "bind on equip" exists (hacking, inflation, keep players moving, etc). Some examples to corroborate your point: I know players that do PvE primarily. They have 5x of every piece of the Vicious Ophidian / Yokeda, &c sets and nothing to do with them. Why not let these be tradeable? Next, there are several dungeon sets which are kinda nice (e.g. Shroud of the Lich, Wurm's Raiment, Hiricine's Veneer, Healing Mage) but nobody uses b/c the drop rates are abysmal and they cannot be traded. Why not?

A couple of quick reasons why there should be BoP gear.
a) Adds a sense of achievement finally getting it, instead of simply buying it.
b) It encourages players to do more end-game content and many times over, so it keeps them keen and interested. Thus staying with the game longer

I do dailies just to build up my Worm Cult and Skoria sets. If I could just buy all that from PvErs then why do it?

There are plenty of sets that are tradeable that you can make money from. For example Footman, Healer, Warlock, Adroitness etc. etc. I don't think players who play a lot PvE or PvP are currently struggling for gold are they? There's plenty of stuff to sell.

PS: Though I agree the drop rates on those Dungeon sets are atrocious and need slight imprevement. I want my Worm Cult

Oughash · April 2015

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

A couple of quick reasons why there should be BoP gear.
a) Adds a sense of achievement finally getting it, instead of simply buying it.
b) It encourages players to do more end-game content and many times over, so it keeps them keen and interested. Thus staying with the game longer

I do dailies just to build up my Worm Cult and Skoria sets. If I could just buy all that from PvErs then why do it?

There are plenty of sets that are tradeable that you can make money from. For example Footman, Healer, Warlock, Adroitness etc. etc. I don't think players who play a lot PvE or PvP are currently struggling for gold are they? There's plenty of stuff to sell.

PS: Though I agree the drop rates on those Dungeon sets are atrocious and need slight imprevement. I want my Worm Cult

I understand this, I really do. And I understand the reality of MMO games and the need to keep players playing, that without the "carrot" of gear grind players lose interest. The gear is an ends in and of itself rather than simply the means to play the game. I understand the mindset of players that chase these item. I simply don't have it.

I don't play this game for PvE -- I play to fight others. If Cyrodiil didn't exist I would never have purchased the game. In the same way I purchase a tennis racquet to play tennis, or a soccer ball, or whatever I would like to be able to purchase in-game items to compete in Cyrodiil (not talking about cash shop purchase with real money). I guess that isn't the best analogy.

Second only to picking your class, gear defines your character strengths and weaknesses in ESO. I greatly enjoy the flexibility this offers for trying new things, strategies, skills -- which are tested against real, thinking opponents. Thus I desire access to gear sets which further diversify the build-crafting and PvP metas.

Legedric · April 2015

Of course I would also prefer some new PvP items similar two the Undaunted sets that may be BoP, too. But I think these items are burried somewhere beneath the Imperial City so I doubt we will see something like this in the near future

But now we are getting somewhere and started a discussion, that's the least I wanted to achieve with my thread

iseko · April 2015

I could get onboard for some new 2 piece sets. PvP sets are very limited atm... Plus they are not bind on equip/pickup/buy. Which kind of sucks... PvE players can just buy pvp sets. We have to do dungeons. Double standards...

Draxys · April 2015

Disagree, simply because they are dungeon sets and should only be found doing that part of the game. I think it would be nice to see some implementation of similar sets into PvP or the dungeons in Cyrodiil, but not the current monster sets.

Artemiisia · April 2015

http://tamrielfoundry.com/dungeon-sets/

Lord Warden Set comes in the imperial city set, dont know if it ever will see the light of day

Maulkin · April 2015

Artemiisia wrote: »

http://tamrielfoundry.com/dungeon-sets/

Lord Warden Set comes in the imperial city set, dont know if it ever will see the light of day

Imperial City Prison will almost certainly be a dungeon within Imperial City and the head will be the drop of the boss, some Lord Warden. That will still be a reward for doing PvE content not PvP.

Not to mention that the set seems very underwhelming compared to others.

JDar · April 2015

Why do they want us to PvE so badly? I don't like fighting computer programs, I like fighting other humans. ZoS pls

Legedric · April 2015

Exactly and tbh it was already quite hard to stick to the game during the stupid VR1-14 quest-run and mob-grind...

Tintinabula · April 2015

...yea its wonderful that even after becoming V14 I still need to find a group and run dungeons over and over and over to get a 2 piece set that's used heavily in PvP. I suggest making those sets available as end of campaign rewards. Today I got two gold Yokeda pieces as an end of Campaign reward( I squealed )..never thought Id be able to acquire them..it really made my day.

McDoogs · April 2015

I don't really agree that the undaunted sets convey an extreme advantage over not having them. Valkyn and engine guardian are the only ones I'd use, and I'd have to give up a decent amount of consistent spell damage for procs

Sleep · April 2015

No, thank you.

eliisra · April 2015

...and solo'ers wants raid- and dungeons gear from doing some solo quest. They also want a full PvE version of Cyrodiil. So where do we draw the line, when it comes to people refusing to participate in certain types of actives, yet expects to get the same rewards and perks?

I rather PvP got it's own BoP rewards personally. It's about time. If people want that or Alliance war skills, they have to PvP. If people want Undaunted sets(that frankly arent that good any more after a dozen nerfs) or passives, they should go run dungeons.

PeggymoeXD · April 2015

Yeah, I'm in Cyrodiil all day. But this idea gets a huge heck no from me. This only takes away from the PvP'ers who did take the time to grind PvE for the gear. So yeah, no.

Also, I sometimes prefer 2 more pieces to the sets I run that aren't bloodspawn, malubeth, or valkyn (the undaunted sets I alternate between.) They take away a good 500 weapon damage.