20% AP if you kill a delve boss in Cyradiil - Why???

WillhelmBlack · March 2015

It's to clog up the servers with more PvE'rs because there aren't enough yet. It's the only explanation I can come up with. You don't mind waiting 1.5 hours to get in Cyrodiil anyway do you, really?

Ley · March 2015

FadedJeans wrote: »

I don't see why people are complaining.

It gives the casual PvE in PvPers incentive to join PvP (you know, where you earn AP)

It gives the single-tasking PvPers incentive to explore some of the other content they built.

More, you can ignore it as you please. If you don't care or don't want it, it doesn't affect you.

What's the big deal?

What's the big deal?!
The big deal is....umm yea I got nothing.

People complain because that's just what people do in games like this. No matter how good the game is or how good it gets, people will find as many things to complain about as possible. The life of a game developer must be quite ungratifying.

7788b14_ESO · March 2015

No testing. Just come up with an idea and test it in live.

Weberda · March 2015

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

It's to clog up the servers with more PvE'rs because there aren't enough yet. It's the only explanation I can come up with. You don't mind waiting 1.5 hours to get in Cyrodiil anyway do you, really?

Why would a PvE'r want a one hour buff on AP?? Most of them hate coming into Cyrodiil because of the threat from players from opposing factions.

WillhelmBlack · March 2015

Weberda wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

It's to clog up the servers with more PvE'rs because there aren't enough yet. It's the only explanation I can come up with. You don't mind waiting 1.5 hours to get in Cyrodiil anyway do you, really?

Why would a PvE'r want a one hour buff on AP?? Most of them hate coming into Cyrodiil because of the threat from players from opposing factions.

Quite simply to get the PvP vendor stuff. They don't have access to it other than the high prices in the guild stores.

Obscure · March 2015

Lag issues?
- commit deer genocide

Still lag?
- buff siege so people will use it instead of skills

Still lag?
- grant AP bonus' for going where no one is fighting

Actual problem: sub-optimized architexture and/or insufficient tech for the application.
Actual solution: cull asset data, prioritise player action data, use low poly mesh placeholders while the asset data loads in the background.

Trying to spread players out in a mode literally designed for large numbers of players to occupy the same spot is counter initiative, and poor design. Yay, dungeon bosses grant buffs to AP gain...and you will still be lagged when fighting players to get AP...

WillhelmBlack · March 2015

You must have seen them...Bow, medium armour, hanging around in keeps for the tick. Literally doing nothing. Well they get more now.

Weberda · March 2015

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

Weberda wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

It's to clog up the servers with more PvE'rs because there aren't enough yet. It's the only explanation I can come up with. You don't mind waiting 1.5 hours to get in Cyrodiil anyway do you, really?

Why would a PvE'r want a one hour buff on AP?? Most of them hate coming into Cyrodiil because of the threat from players from opposing factions.

Quite simply to get the PvP vendor stuff. They don't have access to it other than the high prices in the guild stores.

To get the PvP vendor stuff they're going to have spend a lot of time doing more than just going into a delve. The V14 pieces are like 278k or so.

Roechacca · March 2015

It's about as effective at fixing las as throwing wet paper towels at at a forest fire .

prototypefb · March 2015

this is nice change, tho it won't solve much...
will creat nice minigames, small scale pvp delves xD

devs should reduce data packet sizes and packet loss.
game don't need to send all info about nearby skills etc let each client computer deal with most of that, i'm sure they can make their protocols hell of a lot more effiecient to reduce bottlenecking...

Orchish · March 2015

My experience so far. Kill boss in a delve, go to leave delve cannot leave as Cyrodiil is pop locked... waste 10-15 minutes spamming E to get out of the damn dungeon. Then get a never ending loading screen. Alt tab out quit game, rejoin Cyrodiil stuck in hour long queue. AP bonus timer is over. Repeat all over again.

Sallington · March 2015

Sallington wrote: »

xarguideb17_ESO wrote: »

LOL. This is ZOS-is idea of fixing lag in Cyrodiil - it will spread people out.

So their solution is to try and convince players to do the opposite of what the zone was created for in the first place, which is large epic battles?

Roechacca wrote: »

It's about as effective at fixing las as throwing wet paper towels at at a forest fire .

Calling it a fix is a stretch. They are trying to prevent large battles from even happening.

prototypefb · March 2015

Orchish wrote: »

My experience so far. Kill boss in a delve, go to leave delve cannot leave as Cyrodiil is pop locked... waste 10-15 minutes spamming E to get out of the damn dungeon. Then get a never ending loading screen. Alt tab out quit game, rejoin Cyrodiil stuck in hour long queue. AP bonus timer is over. Repeat all over again.

one way to fix this would be:
when population cap is reached in your zone/campaign largepack of insta-respawning monsters appear that keeps you busy and won't let you out anyways xD and when population cap is not maxed mobs don't respawn XD

i know, silly fix but better than sit and stare at cave shrooms xD
speaking about shrooms, there should be more vegetation in delves! add more rarest alchemy plants, please!

sagitter · March 2015

I like the idea ,this buff incentives the players to visit dungeons and small scale fights .Why you are so negative? I m really bored to listen ppl seeing black everywhere.

Aren_Liore · March 2015

Yes, this is an attempt to fix lag, but its not the only reason for it. Not only will this spread players out, but will also create smaller scale skirmishes (that they also hyped at launch) by drawing more attention to other locations in Cyrodiil. You will still need to group up in larger forces to take keeps / defend and all, but this should spread people out enough to not only (potentially) help with lag but also make other points of interest. To the folks saying: "I don't want to do PVE, this is dumb, or why do PvErs care about PvP?" You have the wrong state of mind. This change isn't to accommodate any fictional demographic, but to encourage other activities alongside massive scale PvP. I also don't understand how arenas are going to help anything in PvP. It will just make Cyrodiil worse than it is. Sure, the current PvP system is flawed, and they have admitted that and are working on improvements, one of which is right here.

I don't think they are necessarily trying to eliminate large scale battles, but I can agree that they want to limit them. I think this is more than just an attempt to fix lag though.

technohic · March 2015

So; how has fighting been in there so far? is that happening at least or is it just go get the buff and get stuck there in Q?

firstdecan · March 2015

Ley wrote: »

FadedJeans wrote: »

I don't see why people are complaining.

It gives the casual PvE in PvPers incentive to join PvP (you know, where you earn AP)

It gives the single-tasking PvPers incentive to explore some of the other content they built.

More, you can ignore it as you please. If you don't care or don't want it, it doesn't affect you.

What's the big deal?

What's the big deal?!
The big deal is....umm yea I got nothing.

People complain because that's just what people do in games like this. No matter how good the game is or how good it gets, people will find as many things to complain about as possible. The life of a game developer must be quite ungratifying.

I've read the thread, I don't see much complaining per se. It's more of a general inquisitiveness and astonishment as to the reason behind the decision making. The community wasn't clamoring for PvE bosses to grant an AP bonus, so it does seem like a strange change to make in the absence of a rational explanation.

If I were to hypothesize about this, it does seem to incentivize moving some of the PvP action away from the keeps (as others have mentioned). This might be an attempt to encourage smaller scale PvP, or an attempt to offload some PvP action into a self contained instance. Either way, the decision seems very odd because:

1 - If the incentive \ bonus were significant enough for people to pursue, it would just encourage griefers \ campers to lie in wait and ambush the people attempting to get the bonus. This will quickly devolve into no one caring about the bonus, or zerg battles in the delves (which would be interesting). If the zerg battles are an issue, I don't think moving those battles underground will do anything for performance.

2 - Many people are already turned off by the "horse riding mini-game," and this requires even more travel in order to get the bonus.

3 - As mentioned earlier by someone else, doing delves on a locked Cyrodiil campaign can leave you trapped in the delve (happened to me about 6 months ago).

4 - When you're in the delve you don't count as in Cyrodiil, so someone else just takes your place in the 'overworld' Cyrodiil (leads to being locked in the delve, doesn't reduce the number of combatants in Cyrodiil). I don't see any net performance gain here.

All in all, it's just a baffling decision. I think this could be a positive discussion if it sticks to potential reasons why they decided to offer the bonus, and alternatives that would better suit that agenda.

Tonnopesce · March 2015

Only one thing comes in my head: if i dont remember wrong there was a thread about a guy stuck into a cyrodill delve because the campaign where full and since the delve it was in another istance when he was tryng to open the door he recived the "full campaign" message, he cannot teleport to the wayshrine or /stuck, the only thing to do was teleport into another campaign losing the privilege to be in thornblade and he got to do the queque once again.
Now with this boost a lot of people will do the delves and i can only imagine how many of them will remain stuck in thornblade.

LOL WHY i dont read the other messages......

Bouvin · March 2015

xarguideb17_ESO wrote: »

LOL. This is ZOS-is idea of fixing lag in Cyrodiil - it will spread people out.

Even better... you get locked out of Cyrodil overland after entering a Delve.

Since avg. Queue time now exceeds 60 minutes, the buff is pointless because it'll wear off before you can get back into overland.

Well played ZOS...well played....

wraith808 · March 2015

Aimelin wrote: »

What people don't realize is if they zone into a delve in a campaign thats pop locked, they won't be able to zone back into the campaign .....

That is incorrect. They corrected that a while ago, and those that are in delves are counted against pop locks.

technohic · March 2015

wraith808 wrote: »

Aimelin wrote: »

What people don't realize is if they zone into a delve in a campaign thats pop locked, they won't be able to zone back into the campaign .....

That is incorrect. They corrected that a while ago, and those that are in delves are counted against pop locks.

That is what we were told yesterday and people later found out that it was not the case.

Pirhana7_ESO · March 2015

wOOOOt_of_SD wrote: »

Where is the logic in giving us a 60 min. 20% AP boost, if we kill a boss in a PVE dungeon?

This is not a complaint - I like that we can get this bonus. But why implement it this way?
Get pvp bonus if you do some PVE??

Is it because they want more people to visit their cyradiil dungeons?
Or did they want to "do something different" - and it included some funny Tobacco?

I don't mind the new initiative here - but I do want to ask ZOS - where is the logic here? is this creativity?

Is this ZOS version of making us do dungeon PVP?
Have you heard of DAOC? And the 3 way PVP dungeon they had? - That was a great idea!

How about rewarding PVP instead?
- Kill 20 players, and get a 20 minute AP bonus of 50%.
- Kill 20 players and get a 60 min. 100% XP boost for PVP kills.

ZOS makes some strange decisions sometimes..
Go fix the lag and the horse stutter first please.

Its because they want people roaming Cyrodill and going into the dungeons more. You kill the boss inside, now when enemy players come in they are worth more to you, you can leave and PVP with the bonus. Its actually a nice bonus for the many people like me who like to mix PVP and PVE and have those small skirmishes with enemy players at random places.

Next they should add that AP bonus to the reward for completeing the town quests. That would get even more people doing them and creating fun small fights.

On another note since the exp increase the town quests are really good for champ exp

wraith808 · March 2015

technohic wrote: »

wraith808 wrote: »

Aimelin wrote: »

What people don't realize is if they zone into a delve in a campaign thats pop locked, they won't be able to zone back into the campaign .....

That is incorrect. They corrected that a while ago, and those that are in delves are counted against pop locks.

That is what we were told yesterday and people later found out that it was not the case.

It didn't happen for me, and the campaign was pop locked when I went in, and when I came out. Maybe there's another contributing factor?

wraith808 · March 2015

Pirhana7_ESO wrote: »

wOOOOt_of_SD wrote: »

Where is the logic in giving us a 60 min. 20% AP boost, if we kill a boss in a PVE dungeon?

This is not a complaint - I like that we can get this bonus. But why implement it this way?
Get pvp bonus if you do some PVE??

Is it because they want more people to visit their cyradiil dungeons?
Or did they want to "do something different" - and it included some funny Tobacco?

I don't mind the new initiative here - but I do want to ask ZOS - where is the logic here? is this creativity?

Is this ZOS version of making us do dungeon PVP?
Have you heard of DAOC? And the 3 way PVP dungeon they had? - That was a great idea!

How about rewarding PVP instead?
- Kill 20 players, and get a 20 minute AP bonus of 50%.
- Kill 20 players and get a 60 min. 100% XP boost for PVP kills.

ZOS makes some strange decisions sometimes..
Go fix the lag and the horse stutter first please.

Its because they want people roaming Cyrodill and going into the dungeons more. You kill the boss inside, now when enemy players come in they are worth more to you, you can leave and PVP with the bonus. Its actually a nice bonus for the many people like me who like to mix PVP and PVE and have those small skirmishes with enemy players at random places.

Next they should add that AP bonus to the reward for completeing the town quests. That would get even more people doing them and creating fun small fights.

On another note since the exp increase the town quests are really good for champ exp

This, exactly. There are some really unique opportunities with the PvE/PvP mix in Cyrodiil for people that don't enjoy the keep based siege combat. That's what I spend about 80% of my time in Cyrodiil doing.

AllPlayAndNoWork · March 2015

I cannot think of anything as lame or half arsed as this "fix". Really poor and a good indication of what they really think about PvP.

Emma_Overload · March 2015

wOOOOt_of_SD wrote: »

Where is the logic in giving us a 60 min. 20% AP boost, if we kill a boss in a PVE dungeon?

This is not a complaint - I like that we can get this bonus. But why implement it this way?
Get pvp bonus if you do some PVE??

Is it because they want more people to visit their cyradiil dungeons?
Or did they want to "do something different" - and it included some funny Tobacco?

I don't mind the new initiative here - but I do want to ask ZOS - where is the logic here? is this creativity?

Is this ZOS version of making us do dungeon PVP?
Have you heard of DAOC? And the 3 way PVP dungeon they had? - That was a great idea!

How about rewarding PVP instead?
- Kill 20 players, and get a 20 minute AP bonus of 50%.
- Kill 20 players and get a 60 min. 100% XP boost for PVP kills.

ZOS makes some strange decisions sometimes..
Go fix the lag and the horse stutter first please.

I understand why you're confused, but this buff probably isn't aimed at PvP players like yourself. I think what they're trying to do is tempt PvE players like me into going to Cyrodiil to serve as cannon fodder by offering us a buff that ONLY helps you if you're willing to endure PvP.

This isn't for our benefit though... it's for YOURS. ZoS is just trying to ensure a steady stream of PvE chumps for PvPers to use as target practice and AP farming.

Thanks, but No Thanks, LOL!

Aimelin · March 2015

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

wOOOOt_of_SD wrote: »

Where is the logic in giving us a 60 min. 20% AP boost, if we kill a boss in a PVE dungeon?

This is not a complaint - I like that we can get this bonus. But why implement it this way?
Get pvp bonus if you do some PVE??

Is it because they want more people to visit their cyradiil dungeons?
Or did they want to "do something different" - and it included some funny Tobacco?

I don't mind the new initiative here - but I do want to ask ZOS - where is the logic here? is this creativity?

Is this ZOS version of making us do dungeon PVP?
Have you heard of DAOC? And the 3 way PVP dungeon they had? - That was a great idea!

How about rewarding PVP instead?
- Kill 20 players, and get a 20 minute AP bonus of 50%.
- Kill 20 players and get a 60 min. 100% XP boost for PVP kills.

ZOS makes some strange decisions sometimes..
Go fix the lag and the horse stutter first please.

I understand why you're confused, but this buff probably isn't aimed at PvP players like yourself. I think what they're trying to do is tempt PvE players like me into going to Cyrodiil to serve as cannon fodder by offering us a buff that ONLY helps you if you're willing to endure PvP.

This isn't for our benefit though... it's for YOURS. ZoS is just trying to ensure a steady stream of PvE chumps for PvPers to use as target practice and AP farming.

Thanks, but No Thanks, LOL!

OR maybe they think that, since pve barely has any lag, they need to get pvers into cyrodiil to reduce the lag .......

It's brilliant !!!!

badmojo · March 2015

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

wOOOOt_of_SD wrote: »

Where is the logic in giving us a 60 min. 20% AP boost, if we kill a boss in a PVE dungeon?

This is not a complaint - I like that we can get this bonus. But why implement it this way?
Get pvp bonus if you do some PVE??

Is it because they want more people to visit their cyradiil dungeons?
Or did they want to "do something different" - and it included some funny Tobacco?

I don't mind the new initiative here - but I do want to ask ZOS - where is the logic here? is this creativity?

Is this ZOS version of making us do dungeon PVP?
Have you heard of DAOC? And the 3 way PVP dungeon they had? - That was a great idea!

How about rewarding PVP instead?
- Kill 20 players, and get a 20 minute AP bonus of 50%.
- Kill 20 players and get a 60 min. 100% XP boost for PVP kills.

ZOS makes some strange decisions sometimes..
Go fix the lag and the horse stutter first please.

I understand why you're confused, but this buff probably isn't aimed at PvP players like yourself. I think what they're trying to do is tempt PvE players like me into going to Cyrodiil to serve as cannon fodder by offering us a buff that ONLY helps you if you're willing to endure PvP.

This isn't for our benefit though... it's for YOURS. ZoS is just trying to ensure a steady stream of PvE chumps for PvPers to use as target practice and AP farming.

Thanks, but No Thanks, LOL!

Except the best AP gains are based around objective, like keeps, outposts or resources, so if a player doesn't instantly return to the front lines of the war after killing a boss, they're losing out on potential AP. Farming PVE'er who for some reason came to a delve in Cyrodiil for a 1 hour boost to AP which they don't even get or need, is not a good way to farm AP. Nor will it be enjoyable combat for a PVP vet. Clubbing baby seals is what it feels like when I meet an obvious PVEer in a cyrodiil delve.

Sallington · March 2015

wraith808 wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

wraith808 wrote: »

Aimelin wrote: »

What people don't realize is if they zone into a delve in a campaign thats pop locked, they won't be able to zone back into the campaign .....

That is incorrect. They corrected that a while ago, and those that are in delves are counted against pop locks.

That is what we were told yesterday and people later found out that it was not the case.

It didn't happen for me, and the campaign was pop locked when I went in, and when I came out. Maybe there's another contributing factor?

The lock icon doesn't mean the pop is 100% full with a queue

AlnilamE · March 2015

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

It's to clog up the servers with more PvE'rs because there aren't enough yet. It's the only explanation I can come up with. You don't mind waiting 1.5 hours to get in Cyrodiil anyway do you, really?

Who goes to a pop-locked campaign to PvE anyway? Or to a pop-locked campaign period?

I always go to a campaign with plenty of room.