jelliedsoup wrote: »

What I'm getting hit? I will just heal or shield myself, and then just use whatever DPS I need, as the other has no significant heal or shield I win.

Seriously , who conceptualised this as appropriate design?

you are absolutely correct, as long as the dragonights and sorcers can insta-heal themselves and have endless shield spaming then basicly there isnt any balance in pvp.

As the person to whom the duties of healer ritually falls...

I like it. My brother can keep himself alive while we quest and I go into werewolf form, and when he enters the form I can just heal him and loot after him. My only complaint about healing in this game is that I have little to no control over who I heal.

jelliedsoup wrote: »

DeLindsay wrote: »

We really need our LOL button back

Kulrig wrote: »

As the person to whom the duties of healer ritually falls...

I like it. My brother can keep himself alive while we quest and I go into werewolf form, and when he enters the form I can just heal him and loot after him. My only complaint about healing in this game is that I have little to no control over who I heal.

I have no issue with a dedicated healer, but healer and dps vs dps means healer + dps wins every time..

It's really badly designed.

Problem is there should be magic heals and magic dps. Heal crit and DPS crit. That would fix a lot of the problems. Might make a few more too tho.

jelliedsoup wrote: »

What I'm getting hit? I will just heal or shield myself, and then just use whatever DPS I need, as the other has no significant heal or shield I win.

Seriously , who conceptualised this as appropriate design?

Lol

and not only that, its also the "knock down" skills that dragonights have

Obscure wrote: »

Presently, in PvP, unless you can kill it before it can react, the name of the game is sustain. There's a certain AD Templar that frequents Chillrend who doesn't ever do much damage, but I've been among a group of other VR14's in numbers of 6-10 giving them all the DPS we could. It was all soaked and healed through for well over 5 minutes until we dropped them. It's happened on more than one occasion with this character in specific, and hasn't always gone in my favour, as a matter of fact it more often doesn't go in my favour. Often while we try in vain to kill the healer, that player, we get killed by their crew.

PvP is for "Defence > Offence" builds. Who cares if you kill things slow, as long as you can sustain their punishment, you win.

well said, and very insightfull.
if i can catch some one off balance and keep them off balance then its an instant "i win" and not only is that completely stupid and cheap its also proof that you have zero skill.
i see these people tee-bag people after thier entire group of 40 to 100 man zerg kill just 1 guy and then stand and do gestures on top of the dead guys poor dead corpse as if it was a HORENDUSLY long and powerfull fight that the other guy had a chance to win. thats completely rediculas as it took all those people perma-stunning and throwing the other guy around like a ragg doll means your skilled and you should deepen it with gestures of tee-bagging and even go as far as whispering the guy that he suks as a pvper?
wow ...
in the end its not the players faults tho, the sad truth is that this is fully on the shoulders of zenimax.

jelliedsoup wrote: »

DeLindsay wrote: »

We really need our LOL button back

Kulrig wrote: »

As the person to whom the duties of healer ritually falls...

I like it. My brother can keep himself alive while we quest and I go into werewolf form, and when he enters the form I can just heal him and loot after him. My only complaint about healing in this game is that I have little to no control over who I heal.

I have no issue with a dedicated healer, but healer and dps vs dps means healer + dps wins every time..

It's really badly designed.

So, a DPS with a healer will always beat a DPS without a healer? Sounds like one of two things to me.

1) Balance!

2) The DPS without a healer should probably stun, interrupt, or otherwise CC the healer in order to make it a 1v1 DPS situation.

In the first case, it's 2v1. Since the healer essentially acts as a force multiplier, let's be generous and say it's 3v1. If equally geared and skilled players are taken into account then, yes, the lone wolf should fall before a DPS with a healer.

In the second case, the loner should have to have a great deal of skill in order to disable the healer and kill the DPS (or disable the DPS and kill the healer), otherwise he should lose. Git gud, I think the saying goes.

Either way, eliminating one of the two must take priority for the loner otherwise he is lost. 2v1 always means a disadvantage for the 1 and an advantage for the 2 regardless of their roles, so it is up to the 1 to even the odds then tilt them in his favor. Since level difference is of little consequence in PvP, skill difference is the deciding factor.

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

and not only that, its also the "knock down" skills that dragonights have

Obscure wrote: »

Presently, in PvP, unless you can kill it before it can react, the name of the game is sustain. There's a certain AD Templar that frequents Chillrend who doesn't ever do much damage, but I've been among a group of other VR14's in numbers of 6-10 giving them all the DPS we could. It was all soaked and healed through for well over 5 minutes until we dropped them. It's happened on more than one occasion with this character in specific, and hasn't always gone in my favour, as a matter of fact it more often doesn't go in my favour. Often while we try in vain to kill the healer, that player, we get killed by their crew.

PvP is for "Defence > Offence" builds. Who cares if you kill things slow, as long as you can sustain their punishment, you win.

well said, and very insightfull.
if i can catch some one off balance and keep them off balance then its an instant "i win" and not only is that completely stupid and cheap its also proof that you have zero skill.
i see these people tee-bag people after thier entire group of 40 to 100 man zerg kill just 1 guy and then stand and do gestures on top of the dead guys poor dead corpse as if it was a HORENDUSLY long and powerfull fight that the other guy had a chance to win. thats completely rediculas as it took all those people perma-stunning and throwing the other guy around like a ragg doll means your skilled and you should deepen it with gestures of tee-bagging and even go as far as whispering the guy that he suks as a pvper?
wow ...
in the end its not the players faults tho, the sad truth is that this is fully on the shoulders of zenimax.

If it seriously takes 40-100 people to kill one dude, then I agree that zeni should rebalance healing.

On the other hand, catching someone off balance and keeping them in such a state does not indicate zero skill on your part. Rather it indicates a great amount of knowledge and skill on your part compared to the enemy's, assuming that it's 1v1. The teabagging thing is merely showboating, which is frowned upon in basically any circle in which sportsmanship is slightly important.

jelliedsoup wrote: »

Kulrig wrote: »

jelliedsoup wrote: »

DeLindsay wrote: »

We really need our LOL button back

Kulrig wrote: »

As the person to whom the duties of healer ritually falls...

I like it. My brother can keep himself alive while we quest and I go into werewolf form, and when he enters the form I can just heal him and loot after him. My only complaint about healing in this game is that I have little to no control over who I heal.

I have no issue with a dedicated healer, but healer and dps vs dps means healer + dps wins every time..

It's really badly designed.

So, a DPS with a healer will always beat a DPS without a healer? Sounds like one of two things to me.

1) Balance!

2) The DPS without a healer should probably stun, interrupt, or otherwise CC the healer in order to make it a 1v1 DPS situation.

In the first case, it's 2v1. Since the healer essentially acts as a force multiplier, let's be generous and say it's 3v1. If equally geared and skilled players are taken into account then, yes, the lone wolf should fall before a DPS with a healer.

In the second case, the loner should have to have a great deal of skill in order to disable the healer and kill the DPS (or disable the DPS and kill the healer), otherwise he should lose. Git gud, I think the saying goes.

Either way, eliminating one of the two must take priority for the loner otherwise he is lost. 2v1 always means a disadvantage for the 1 and an advantage for the 2 regardless of their roles, so it is up to the 1 to even the odds then tilt them in his favor. Since level difference is of little consequence in PvP, skill difference is the deciding factor.

Balance doesn't mean the strongest build is tanks, dps and heals.

A good healer should be able to heal the damage a good dps does, the ability to press a button and shield/heal a set amount is lazy and poorly designed. It all should be relatively to the ability and focus of the character.

Everyone rolls around with shields, heals and dps hence why zerg fests are everywhere.

True. A good player, regardless of their role, should have equal effect to a good player of another role. A good healer should be able to cancel out the effects of a good DPS just as a good tank should, and a good DPS should be able to negate the effects of a good healer or tank.

Therefore, good players should have greater effect than normal or "bad" players. Likewise, in a 2v1 scenario assuming equal gear and skill the 2 should triumph over the 1.

As for why there are zergs everywhere, it's simply because there is great strength in numbers. Group PvP outside of arenas usually becomes a zergfest simply because it represents the greatest chance of the individual members to survive and the greatest chance of the success of the group.

badmojo wrote: »

jelliedsoup wrote: »

healer and dps vs dps means healer + dps wins every time..

It's really badly designed.

What the.... isn't that.... like.... just.... basic logic?

Yes its incredibly basic to the point where it's binary. There are no levels to allow a character to be signifcantly better healer than dps as they scale off of the same attribute. It's very simple and very basic.

Other es games base your ability with a bow on your bow level, healing on healing. They really f#@$eed the design on this game.


Are you a X class? Yes so you have access to Y.

A good word who shield stacks is really hard to beat but its all about timing. If you are an NB best I can say is shield stack back with healing ward and dampen magic, put a strong DoT or two on them and time your fears very well. If you can get them to less then half and get a good fear in while shields are down you should be able to burst them real quick with concealed weapon and soul harvest and finish with impale. Personally I do need t use impale. If we had one more ability slot though I would. Unfortunately the above tactic is very hard to do if you are a stamina based NB. I don't have an answer for other classes to counter it though.

You just need to out shield/heal them but if you are NB hit and run and hope your cloak work fine.

Snit wrote: »

Killing healers has worked the same way in every MMO for more than a decade -- CC and timed burst win. The same applies to shielders, who are basically self-healers. Other debuffs can play a role, too. But mostly, you're trying to prevent him from reacting in time to save himself. CC and burst.

Similarly, every MMO features a vocal group who are unable or unwilling to figure this out. They tend to post a lot.

^Only thing worth reading in this thread. I swear the learn to play is over 9000 in this game. Havent had any issues killing anything really since 1.6 (as NB).

Nerf.Nerf.Nerf. It gets pathetic, tbh.