What's the point of CP when future DLC scales to you?

Guppet · March 2015

Lately the forums have been flooded with posts about getting the fastest rate of CP. I just don't understand the obsession with it. So long as you can already complete content, isn't getting more CP just going to make that content you are clearing already easier and possibly less fun?

It's already been established that future DLC will scale to the player, so can be played at any level. In that environment, how would having more CP be beneficial, or even recognised in the mechanics? As a VR 14 with 1200 CP, you can complete the new DLC, but so can that level 20 with no CP!

The only places CP will matter, are current PVE, which is already easy with no CP or PVP, which will end up getting brackets if CP effects it too much. It's not even like they have improved PVP to the point that all that matters is not who zergs most wins.

PVP needs attention, it needs battlegrounds/warzones. If it gets them, there will be brackets to stop 1300 CP from going up against 0 CP.

Does CP actually matter at all?

Dymence · March 2015

It matters because they'll probably end up making harder endgame content in the future for which you'd need them.

Pirhana7_ESO · March 2015

For the Cyrodiil endgame players CPs are basically a reward for continueing to play and something to push for to keep improving your character on the battle field. No one likes to hit that "im finished wall"

Cps are very similiar to realm ranks from Darkage of Camelot which kept people playinga nd building their characters for years

fromtesonlineb16_ESO · March 2015

Guppet wrote: »

What's the point of CP when future DLC scales to you?

It doesn't, you scale to the content, ZOS have been trying to correct the impression they originally gave that lead to the 'scales to you' idea. Clearly they can't scale content to your level in an MMORPG except if forced-solo instances, but up-scaling players to the content is feasible, though IMO with dubious value.

So the issue is will the content be tuned assuming a level of CPs or not? If it is new players are going to be hugely less powerful and either content will be too easy for veteran players or very hard for new players.

MissBizz · March 2015

As @fromtesonlineb16_ESO noted, you scale to the content. I imagine it will work the same way that battle levelling for Cyrodiil does. In order for EVERYONE to play the content, I would have to think future DLC's will be max level and they will scale you up. You may have the stats to level up, but having champion point bonuses and passives will definitely help out your build. I would also think they will have to keep champion points in mind when they create these DLC's and may gear the content towards "having 150 CP" or whatever the average may be, so the content isn't too easy for people with CP's. As they mentioned on the PTS for 1.6, they gave us the ability to use all 3600 CP's, but reminded up "the content is not scaled to this, everything will be really easy"... so they will HAVE to take average CP into account. CP's also already help enhance your character and fine tune their build. Have a healer? Throwing CP into healing effectiveness WILL help. As well, looking to have a toon that can tank or heal with a simple gear swap? You will most likely want a bunch of CP so you can sink them into healer AND tank type passives, so you always have them both and do not have to respec.

As well, simply, they are giving us something to work towards. Some people like to be at "max level" as fast as possible, and are getting as many CP as they can, as they feel their VR14 is not max level until they have 3600 CP.

psufan5 · March 2015

Pirhana7_ESO wrote: »

For the Cyrodiil endgame players CPs are basically a reward for continueing to play and something to push for to keep improving your character on the battle field. No one likes to hit that "im finished wall"

Cps are very similiar to realm ranks from Darkage of Camelot which kept people playinga nd building their characters for years

Yeah but lets be honest, they were only worth +1 to your stats, and gave you some abilities. Those abilities were sometimes pretty useless. What it allowed you to do was respec your current skill lines with 1 less point so you could have an effective +51 in slash for example with only having to spec 41 points into it (if you were realm rank 2 and had +1 point etc).

The CP thing basically was a nerf to everyone, and now you need to play for 10 years to make that up? Just strange.

Guppet · March 2015

MissBizz wrote: »

As @fromtesonlineb16_ESO noted, you scale to the content. I imagine it will work the same way that battle levelling for Cyrodiil does. In order for EVERYONE to play the content, I would have to think future DLC's will be max level and they will scale you up. You may have the stats to level up, but having champion point bonuses and passives will definitely help out your build. I would also think they will have to keep champion points in mind when they create these DLC's and may gear the content towards "having 150 CP" or whatever the average may be, so the content isn't too easy for people with CP's. As they mentioned on the PTS for 1.6, they gave us the ability to use all 3600 CP's, but reminded up "the content is not scaled to this, everything will be really easy"... so they will HAVE to take average CP into account. CP's also already help enhance your character and fine tune their build. Have a healer? Throwing CP into healing effectiveness WILL help. As well, looking to have a toon that can tank or heal with a simple gear swap? You will most likely want a bunch of CP so you can sink them into healer AND tank type passives, so you always have them both and do not have to respec.

As well, simply, they are giving us something to work towards. Some people like to be at "max level" as fast as possible, and are getting as many CP as they can, as they feel their VR14 is not max level until they have 3600 CP.

It certainly makes more sense to scale the players, rather than content (effectively a bolster system, like SWTOR), then different level players can band together. But if they do that and a level 20 can complete the new DLC, then there's no need to farm CP.

Content that scales you, makes your stats irrelevant. The only exception would be that at max level you are not scaled. Then we end up with a twilight zone at max level when your actually less effective than a level 20, until you have farmed the requisite 200 CP the content was balanced for. That could get very messy indeed and lead to a culture of twinks.

Ballzy321 · March 2015

Advantages in pvp the only reason I see a use for it

Audigy · March 2015

Single Player content might scale, even though I doubt it will scale to CP´s, but the Char level. Group content however will never scale, as it wont work with 12 different players in there.

Future Trials will definitely require a specific amount of CPs, else you will not be able to do them.

Pirhana7_ESO · March 2015

psufan5 wrote: »

Pirhana7_ESO wrote: »

For the Cyrodiil endgame players CPs are basically a reward for continueing to play and something to push for to keep improving your character on the battle field. No one likes to hit that "im finished wall"

Cps are very similiar to realm ranks from Darkage of Camelot which kept people playinga nd building their characters for years

Yeah but lets be honest, they were only worth +1 to your stats, and gave you some abilities. Those abilities were sometimes pretty useless. What it allowed you to do was respec your current skill lines with 1 less point so you could have an effective +51 in slash for example with only having to spec 41 points into it (if you were realm rank 2 and had +1 point etc).

The CP thing basically was a nerf to everyone, and now you need to play for 10 years to make that up? Just strange.

More like 2 weeks to make up what you lost, after that you are stronger than you were before the patch

Guppet · March 2015

Audigy wrote: »

Single Player content might scale, even though I doubt it will scale to CP´s, but the Char level. Group content however will never scale, as it wont work with 12 different players in there.

Future Trials will definitely require a specific amount of CPs, else you will not be able to do them.

It's actually the players that will scale not the content, so everyone in a group will end up the same level.

Audigy · March 2015

Guppet wrote: »

Audigy wrote: »

Single Player content might scale, even though I doubt it will scale to CP´s, but the Char level. Group content however will never scale, as it wont work with 12 different players in there.

Future Trials will definitely require a specific amount of CPs, else you will not be able to do them.

It's actually the players that will scale not the content, so everyone in a group will end up the same level.

Like what we use in Cyrodil right? So a player with level 10 will scale to 50? This however wont work with the CP will it? Do you think ZOS would give every player 1000 CP with the next DLC so that they can do that content?

Even if its only temporary for that adventure zone, dungeon etc. it would still somehow defeat the purpose of the whole CP system I think and I am not sure this is what will happen, but I can be wrong.

I agree about the brackets though, they are really needed.

Obscure · March 2015

I expect to see gear progression based on the Champion system, and though I'm not sure it'll be vertical gear progression, I expect it to have Champion Point value requirements like "120 points in the Warrior required" or "Champion Rank 360" required.

Additionally I expect progressively harder content based on certain Champion Point values. Presently everything that's "end game" is slowly but incrementally being "out levelled" in difficulty due to the power creep of the Champion System. Players are going to need that next big challenge, and if it doesn't take into account the disparity between existing content and the vertical progression of players up to that point, then it's going to be too easy.

Rescorla_ESO · March 2015

The OP raises a legitimate point which I hope someone at ZOS takes the time to give an informative answer.

I think bolstering player level in Cyrodil PVP is a smart idea but doing the same for new PVE zones sounds like an extremely bad idea that will just dumb down the new content so that lower level bolstered characters can complete it.