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Reducing Bot influence
linoge63
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If raw material nodes were coded alike quest items and loot from corpses are, that is, we both have access to it with no competition, then that would reduce Botters ability to control access and prices in the guilds.
Writs require materials and therefore are quest items and access to the items in raw material nodes ought to be considered to be recoded to not dissapear when the bot / or buddy over there extracts the item from that node. Seems reasonable does ot not.?
Writs require materials and therefore are quest items and access to the items in raw material nodes ought to be considered to be recoded to not dissapear when the bot / or buddy over there extracts the item from that node. Seems reasonable does ot not.?
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Ysne58✭✭✭✭✭I don't think I have seen any bots recently. There is sometimes heavy competition for resources from regular players.3 -
Nestor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭That would actually increase the Botters, because they would always have a Node to Harvest. Makes their job much easier.
And, even though I would sometimes love having more resource nodes in the game, their scarcity is the only thing that makes certain crafting professions profitable.
You want to combat Bots, report them. One account can run 8 bots, so you get an 8 for 1 bang on your buck there.Enjoy the game, life is what you really want to be worried about.
PakKat "Everything was going well, until I died"
Gary Gravestink "I am glad you died, I needed the help"1 -
fromtesonlineb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Like @ysne58 I've not seen any harvesting bots for a long time, and even now in the start areas I'd have no problems getting materials if I needed them, I see them all the time even at the busiest times.1 -
Slurg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭So a bot runner could have 20 accounts instead of just 1 running the same harvesting circuit over and over again?
No thanks.Happy All the Holidays To You and Yours!
Remembering better days of less RNG in all the things.0 -
Ashigaru✭✭✭✭If raw material nodes were coded alike quest items and loot from corpses are, that is, we both have access to it with no competition, then that would reduce Botters ability to control access and prices in the guilds.
Writs require materials and therefore are quest items and access to the items in raw material nodes ought to be considered to be recoded to not dissapear when the bot / or buddy over there extracts the item from that node. Seems reasonable does ot not.?
Botters? Lost me on that one but what i do think we have are scripts running on guild stores, i ran into some of them in EQ2 years ago, they setup to scan the market (guild stores in this case) and auto buy items that meet a certain price criteria. Recently i have put items up for sale and within a matter of minutes or less the item is purchased, thats what makes me think its happening.0 -
linoge63✭✭✭If I am going to buy material from the guild stores, that end up costing me more than i gain from completing the writ, then i wont be buying, i will be competing for that resource. Just saying. If that is what the visionaries have for this mmo game, that PVP appears in crafting, so be it. Why not go all out and make looting from shared kills, 1st come 1st serve too? and while youre at it, apply the same mechanic to quest items. ie Sorry bud...i beat you to it. Abandon quest and, well, try again
Instead of competing with the other player, we could be cooperating as MMO's are usually designed to express. Ie, i see buddy over there harvesting that node, and he whistles out...hey over here...thanks! be right there ...the resource does NOT disappear, for theres lots to go around.
[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Misinformation and Conspiracy Theories]Edited by ZOS_UlyssesW on March 25, 2015 4:37PM0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Botters? Lost me on that one but what i do think we have are scripts running on guild stores, i ran into some of them in EQ2 years ago, they setup to scan the market (guild stores in this case) and auto buy items that meet a certain price criteria. Recently i have put items up for sale and within a matter of minutes or less the item is purchased, thats what makes me think its happening.
That could also just be legitimate users getting there. I found a Daedric Heart listed for 50 gold this morning. Snapped it up the moment I found it. I can't imagine it was in the store for very long. And, I've seen some similar prices. List low and it won't last long.
That said, some people will use more efficient interfaces for the guild kiosks. I use AwesomeGuildStore, which does add some really nice quality of life functionality to the kiosk interface.1 -
Necrelios✭✭✭✭✭Although I haven't seen a bot in a long time, I think it's still probably a discussion worth having. Bots are a very tricky problem in MMO's specifically, and they are always getting smarter and better at what they do. This is why there is no simple solutions out there. Having instanced nodes much like quest loot is one thing which has been discussed here before, but I think it has the potential to possibly hurt the honest player more than the bot in some cases.Terms & Conditions ["We revoke permission to fictional legal constructs or private/public persons for selling of any private data, censorship, surveillance, personage or conversion as a trespass of law. We prohibit the practice of "procedural law" or corporate statues in place of divine law."]0 -
Ourorboros✭✭✭✭✭
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Uh......no. First, what do you mean by "Botters ability to control access and prices in the guilds" Prices are controlled by supply and demand. For example, before writs, the price for ores and wood, even Tier 9 mats, had dropped to 700g or less. Now with demand fueled by writs, those prices are considerably higher. But there has never been a scarcity of material. It is a never ending supply that only requires a little time and effort to gather. I see plenty of other players after one of the most valuable resources, nodes in Upper Craglorn. But I have only rarely seen those nodes disappear suddenly, the telltale of a bot.If raw material nodes were coded alike quest items and loot from corpses are, that is, we both have access to it with no competition, then that would reduce Botters ability to control access and prices in the guilds.
Writs require materials and therefore are quest items and access to the items in raw material nodes ought to be considered to be recoded to not dissapear when the bot / or buddy over there extracts the item from that node. Seems reasonable does ot not.?
While there may be heavy competition for nodes, they all respawn. Just figure out a strategy that puts you in front of it when it does.
So bottom line, If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Or in this case, it's been fixed, don't mess with it.PC/NA/DCBreton Sorcerer Maester.White - BB meets GoT >Master Crafter< { 9 Traits completed 4/23/15 }
TANSTAAFL--->There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.....Robert Heinlein
Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea....Heinlein
All those moments will be lost in time, like tears...in...rain. Time to die. "Blade Runner"
ESO: the game you hate to love and love to hate....( >_<) May RNG be with you (*,_,*)2 -
Slurg✭✭✭✭✭
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Are you saying you want lots more bots in the game, to drive prices down in the guild stores? Because maybe you don't realize, since you are new here, that we don't currently have a bot problem now like we did at launch. Resources are expensive because actual players are doing the selling.
On the other hand, I miss my old identical Nord Templar buddies Zdhfirnf, Xhjmgvf, and Jdnfjrn, and it might be nice to run circuits with them again.Happy All the Holidays To You and Yours!
Remembering better days of less RNG in all the things.2 -
Ashigaru✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »Botters? Lost me on that one but what i do think we have are scripts running on guild stores, i ran into some of them in EQ2 years ago, they setup to scan the market (guild stores in this case) and auto buy items that meet a certain price criteria. Recently i have put items up for sale and within a matter of minutes or less the item is purchased, thats what makes me think its happening.
That could also just be legitimate users getting there. I found a Daedric Heart listed for 50 gold this morning. Snapped it up the moment I found it. I can't imagine it was in the store for very long. And, I've seen some similar prices. List low and it won't last long.
That said, some people will use more efficient interfaces for the guild kiosks. I use AwesomeGuildStore, which does add some really nice quality of life functionality to the kiosk interface.
I know what can be done with inner space and the characteristics of how the items are being purchased so fast it screams a script, addons dont do this kind of stuff.0 -
Keron✭✭✭✭✭
✭Since approximately Update 1.2.x, I have not seen any bot in game, neither in delves nor on world bosses nor raw material gathering nor drop grinding. My personal perception of your request is that you have had it happen one too many times that someone stole "your" void stone ore while you were killing those pesky wasps and mocked you with an alleged fortified nirncrux drop.
If you are raw material depleted, I suggest going to the V9/V10 areas - they are basically empty, have tons of raw material nodes and will get you something in the range of 100 ore/wood/blooms within one hours worth of farming (and I mean all three at 100 within one hour). 1.5 times that if you have the champion perk with chance to double contents (which also works on runestobnes, btw) - it procs really often.
So, no, doing this is not only going to destroy crafting materials market but is also completely unnecessary. But that is just my personal opinion.1 -
Nestor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »[
That could also just be legitimate users getting there. I found a Daedric Heart listed for 50 gold this morning. Snapped it up the moment I found it. I can't imagine it was in the store for very long. And, I've seen some similar prices. List low and it won't last long.
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Daedric Hearts are worth something? I have hundreds of those things.
Now, last night I picked up a Blue L6 Recipe, made a L50 Food that increased Health and Magick. The Master Merchant mod I just started using told me that one had sold for 5500 gold in the last day. Since two of my characters knew this recipe I decided to sell it, for 5000. It sold in like 42 minutes, and the Kiosk is at South Point in Grahtwood, kind of an out of the way place (though convenient to a wayshrine). So, I wonder two things, did an add on find that listing and did I charge too little for it, and when am I going to get another Blue recipe to sell like that. OK, that's 3 things, but I got greedy.
Enjoy the game, life is what you really want to be worried about.
PakKat "Everything was going well, until I died"
Gary Gravestink "I am glad you died, I needed the help"1 -
Ourorboros✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭starkerealm wrote: »Botters? Lost me on that one but what i do think we have are scripts running on guild stores, i ran into some of them in EQ2 years ago, they setup to scan the market (guild stores in this case) and auto buy items that meet a certain price criteria. Recently i have put items up for sale and within a matter of minutes or less the item is purchased, thats what makes me think its happening.
That could also just be legitimate users getting there. I found a Daedric Heart listed for 50 gold this morning. Snapped it up the moment I found it. I can't imagine it was in the store for very long. And, I've seen some similar prices. List low and it won't last long.
That said, some people will use more efficient interfaces for the guild kiosks. I use AwesomeGuildStore, which does add some really nice quality of life functionality to the kiosk interface.
Totally agree. I have seen items get sold within minutes of posting them. But since similar items also sold for me recently as well, it just tells me I have a commodity that is desired and the right price to move it.
PC/NA/DCBreton Sorcerer Maester.White - BB meets GoT >Master Crafter< { 9 Traits completed 4/23/15 }
TANSTAAFL--->There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.....Robert Heinlein
Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea....Heinlein
All those moments will be lost in time, like tears...in...rain. Time to die. "Blade Runner"
ESO: the game you hate to love and love to hate....( >_<) May RNG be with you (*,_,*)0 -
That would actually increase the Botters, because they would always have a Node to Harvest. Makes their job much easier.
What they said.
Also, what bots? There haven't been any harvest bots in a long time. Sounds more like OP just wants nodes all to themselves and is trying to pitch it as an anti-botting measure (that is actually pro-bot).2 -
Ourorboros✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭starkerealm wrote: »[
That could also just be legitimate users getting there. I found a Daedric Heart listed for 50 gold this morning. Snapped it up the moment I found it. I can't imagine it was in the store for very long. And, I've seen some similar prices. List low and it won't last long.
.
Daedric Hearts are worth something? I have hundreds of those things.
Now, last night I picked up a Blue L6 Recipe, made a L50 Food that increased Health and Magick. The Master Merchant mod I just started using told me that one had sold for 5500 gold in the last day. Since two of my characters knew this recipe I decided to sell it, for 5000. It sold in like 42 minutes, and the Kiosk is at South Point in Grahtwood, kind of an out of the way place (though convenient to a wayshrine). So, I wonder two things, did an add on find that listing and did I charge too little for it, and when am I going to get another Blue recipe to sell like that. OK, that's 3 things, but I got greedy.
Master Merchant, my newest favorite add-on.
Not surprised by the sale of daedric hearts, they are the only racial (not counting dwemer) that is somewhat rare. What really surprised me it that I sold a stack of 200 copper for much more than I would have priced them myself. That was the power of Master Merchant.PC/NA/DCBreton Sorcerer Maester.White - BB meets GoT >Master Crafter< { 9 Traits completed 4/23/15 }
TANSTAAFL--->There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.....Robert Heinlein
Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea....Heinlein
All those moments will be lost in time, like tears...in...rain. Time to die. "Blade Runner"
ESO: the game you hate to love and love to hate....( >_<) May RNG be with you (*,_,*)0 -
SLy_Kyti✭✭✭✭I've seen bots, recently, in fact they've never gone away. Reduced yes,gone? Ugh no. They can fly...yes...I've seen them in the air as have guild mates. Look up carefully in Khenarthis or Coldharbor, you'll see them sometimes. They also are under the ground, under the game framework. Gone up to a node to harvest only to have it vaporize? They just got there before you. This exists in so many games and is extremely hard to eradicate.
Unfortunately ZOS has had to add many fixes on the Server side to combat them. It causes our lag I've been told. In any case, stay vigilant, F1 the bastiches, report them if you can target them.
If in doubt, whisper the player in question.
Master Crafter: Almost all motifs
GM~ Blades of Old Tamriel NA/AD
Member~ NZAD
Member~ Blades of Vengeance NA/AD
-Tamriel College -Amazing Deals of Nirn-
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AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If I am going to buy material from the guild stores, that end up costing me more than i gain from completing the writ, then i wont be buying, i will be competing for that resource. Just saying. If that is what the visionaries have for this mmo game, that PVP appears in crafting, so be it. Why not go all out and make looting from shared kills, 1st come 1st serve too? and while youre at it, apply the same mechanic to quest items. ie Sorry bud...i beat you to it. Abandon quest and, well, try again
Instead of competing with the other player, we could be cooperating as MMO's are usually designed to express. Ie, i see buddy over there harvesting that node, and he whistles out...hey over here...thanks! be right there ...the resource does NOT disappear, for theres lots to go around.
I actually think this game has a good balance of loot that is instanced (from kills and containers) and loot that we need to compete for (resource nodes and treasure chests). It gives every play style something to look for.
The only place where there is high competition for tier 9 mats is in Upper Craglorn because of the chance of finding Nirncrux. Anywhere else, it's pretty easy to find it. And for the beginner mats, the starter zones have plenty of nodes as well. I've never had an issue finding stuff (also, you may want to look into hirelings).
[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version and removed response]Edited by ZOS_UlyssesW on March 25, 2015 4:49PMThe Moot Councillor1 -
Gone up to a node to harvest only to have it vaporize? They just got there before you.
This is actually a long-standing bug which, iirc, has something to do with phasing (tellingly, the node will not have the particle effect from the Keen Eye skills). It doesn't mean that an invisible bot got to it before you.2 -
fromtesonlineb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
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You really didn't understand the OP's point, did you? Try thinking about the effects of what he's asking for, in games that have this sort of mechanic bots simply don't affect the vast majority of players, AT ALL.So a bot runner could have 20 accounts instead of just 1 running the same harvesting circuit over and over again?
No thanks.0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
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Preaching to the choir, but, yeah. It was at around 160-200 a piece before 1.6, and 200 seems to be the low end now.Daedric Hearts are worth something? I have hundreds of those things.
I do regret not nabbing armloads of them back when we could still buy them from the crafting merchants, though.Now, last night I picked up a Blue L6 Recipe, made a L50 Food that increased Health and Magick. The Master Merchant mod I just started using told me that one had sold for 5500 gold in the last day. Since two of my characters knew this recipe I decided to sell it, for 5000. It sold in like 42 minutes, and the Kiosk is at South Point in Grahtwood, kind of an out of the way place (though convenient to a wayshrine). So, I wonder two things, did an add on find that listing and did I charge too little for it, and when am I going to get another Blue recipe to sell like that. OK, that's 3 things, but I got greedy.
I really need to reevaluate the blue recipes. Back before 1.6, the vet blues were nearly worthless.0 -
Slurg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »
You really didn't understand the OP's point, did you? Try thinking about the effects of what he's asking for, in games that have this sort of mechanic bots simply don't affect the vast majority of players, AT ALL.So a bot runner could have 20 accounts instead of just 1 running the same harvesting circuit over and over again?
No thanks.
The OP said that botters are controlling the prices and supply in the market. That's clearly not true but even if it was I fail to see how anyone could think that a mechanic that increases supply for bots could help that situation at all. Did you not read that part or did you just start attacking me for no reason?Happy All the Holidays To You and Yours!
Remembering better days of less RNG in all the things.0 -
linoge63✭✭✭I can tell by the above responses most of you have very provincial comprehension of what a bot really is.
It doesnt matter if its a program or not. I will leave it at that and wont go into educating you more along that line at this time
The fact that the node is coded to express resource limitation is the point, and of course most of you missed it. Resource limitation leads to poverty based actions in game....Take some time to reflect on that.Edited by linoge63 on March 25, 2015 4:04PM0 -
AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭squidgod2000b14_ESO wrote: »Gone up to a node to harvest only to have it vaporize? They just got there before you.
This is actually a long-standing bug which, iirc, has something to do with phasing (tellingly, the node will not have the particle effect from the Keen Eye skills). It doesn't mean that an invisible bot got to it before you.
Yes, it's definitely a phasing issue. This happened to me when I was with a friend in Bal Foyen where we each had picked different choices in that quest. I could not see him and he accessed the node, it did not light up for me and disappeared when I got close to it.The Moot Councillor1 -
driosketch✭✭✭✭✭
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There is a floor though, the 4gp you get per mat by selling to a vendor. You would never see store prices drop below that. Prices per stack already range 1.5 to 2.5 the vendor sell point in the stores now. Even at cost I don't you would make that back from a writ unless you got a survey.
You buy mats from a guild store to save you time, such as if you where leveling a new crafter.
Main: Drio Azul ~ DC, Redguard, Healer/Magicka Templar ~ NA-PC
●The Psijic Order●The Sidekick Order●Great House Hlaalu●Bal-Busters●0 -
Nestor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I can tell by the above responses most of you have very provincial comprehension of what a bot really is.
A bot is a scripted character designed to do something over and over again. What's provincial about that? There is nothing magic about these but some scripting on the client side. I identifying them in game is easy.I've seen bots, recently, in fact they've never gone away. Reduced yes,gone? Ugh no. They can fly...yes...I've seen them in the air as have guild mates. Look up carefully in Khenarthis or Coldharbor, you'll see them sometimes. They also are under the ground, under the game framework. Gone up to a node to harvest only to have it vaporize? They just got there before you.
As for the Nodes that disappear as soon as you get to them, that is an Instancing issue, not some scripted PC that tunnels underground like a mole. This even happens in instanced areas of the game (any building interior for example). That is another issue entirely, but has nothing to do with Bots.
Enjoy the game, life is what you really want to be worried about.
PakKat "Everything was going well, until I died"
Gary Gravestink "I am glad you died, I needed the help"2 -
Ourorboros✭✭✭✭✭
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In fact, it seems your point is you are not happy with a certain aspect of the game and you want a change that will make you happy.The fact that the node is coded to express resource limitation is the point, and of course most of you missed it. Resource limitation leads to poverty based actions in game....Take some time to reflect on that.
I won't speak for anyone else, but the system in place has worked just fine over the past year. I don't think it's the game that needs to change.PC/NA/DCBreton Sorcerer Maester.White - BB meets GoT >Master Crafter< { 9 Traits completed 4/23/15 }
TANSTAAFL--->There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.....Robert Heinlein
Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea....Heinlein
All those moments will be lost in time, like tears...in...rain. Time to die. "Blade Runner"
ESO: the game you hate to love and love to hate....( >_<) May RNG be with you (*,_,*)1
